Jinger and Jeremy: She's in Shorts?!

[PumaLover]

Damn. Of all the posts they decide to quote from FJ, they choose the one (I think it was kind of joking? Can't remember) optimistic one, instead of the hundreds discussing the harms of fundamentalism. It's a gossip magazine, though, so I shouldn't be surprised. Can't think too hard. (No shame on those who like reading celebrity gossip, it's great entertainment, just not real thought-provoking, you know?)
Also, reading you guy's horror stories about sex ed makes me all the more thankful for my crazy gym teacher, who taught us how to clean sex toys when we were in 9th grade, explained masturbation, and told us about every kind of birth control under the sun. We actually did one of those demonstrations where people put glitter on their hands, then shook hands. It was less "don't have sex" and more "wear a damn condom" because some kids got rubber gloves. That's a much healthier message. Protect your wiener.
Spoiler
 

Yes I was being somewhat sarcastic in my post and put quotes around "free" which I guess they didn't pick up on. I was excited that she was free from the confines of her parents and their ridiculous oppressive rules, but not free overall from the brainwashing so therefore she still wasn't really free. I will explain myself better in the future in case more gossip magazines quote me.

That said I do still have a glimmer of hope that one day she might be more mainstream and less fundie. I can always dream I suppose!

[Iamtheway]

2 hours ago, jacduggar said:

Agree with everything you said.

I highly doubt they are using NFP because I don't think either one of them is well versed in the female cycle. A lot of people tend to run to the Duggars practicing NFP like they would even know what that means. Jeremy going to college doesn't mean he understands the female cycle, and I sincerely doubt Jinger knows anything about it at all. 

I never think a Duggars is using birth control of any kind. I've said this a lot on here before but getting pregnant is actually a pretty delicate art, and women don't have a super great chance of it happening right away. On average it takes someone who is actively trying longer than 6 months to conceive. The fact that they've been married for a little bit and aren't pregnant is not a tell - at all. 

Its sad. Jinger clearly does not like having a mega family but that's the life she's been conditioned to have, and she probably figures that she just has to deal with it. 

I think the Duggars have excellent knowledge about the female cycle. That is after all also the best way to get pregnant often. Doubt they would use BC-pills or condoms. But a little bit of planning could still be considered leaving it up to God. Couldn't it?

Seeing how many here have told the stories about their failing birthcontrol babies I would say they can go ahead and protect themselves as much as they please. If God wants them to have a baby they will have a baby. 

[singsingsing]

Right? If God can flood the entire world, part a sea, walk on water, raise people from the dead, and get old women and virgins pregnant, I'm sure he can so ordain that the condom breaks at the right moment.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, unicorncastle said:

He's not a fundamentalist pastor. He is a nondenominational one.

As Sing said, Fundamentalism is not limited to IFB. The church Jeremy preaches at is a Fundamentalist church. It is patriarchal, does not believe in abortion under any circumstance, and pushes "praying away the gay." He may be steps to the left on drinking or pants, but those aren't exactly the core values I really care about. I'm waiting to hear him praise family planning.

Btw, we follow many Fundamentalists on Free Jinger who are not aligned with IFB, including Doug Wilson, RC Sproul, and Doug Phillips and Vision Forum. 

At its basic definition, Fundamentalism is the literal interpretation of the Bible. It can appear in various denominations, from Pentecostalism to Catholicism to Presbyterianism. It is not in itself a denomination.

 

And yeah, this is going to sound really harsh towards the Duggar daughters, but I don't understand the "he was pretending to be Fundie so he could get Jinger" argument.  So he was willing to jump through all these hoops because he was just so smitten with...the limited conversation in the constant presence of chaperones? The ubiquity of "ums" and "likes" whenever she spoke? The lack of education, experience, hobbies, or independent opinions? A good looking guy like Jeremy  has plenty of options in dating. He pursued Jinger because he wanted just what he got: a submissive girlwoman who will submit to him. 

[Tatar-tot]

4 hours ago, IReallyAmHopewell said:

My take here:

 

1 I don't think his parents had ever heard of Bill Gothard

2. Na...to higher ed. Just a venue.

3.  Yeah on that, but Jinger would never have been allowed to marry him if Jeremy hadn't agreed on b.c.

4.  She's doing what hubby commanded

5.  No way, Jose

6. If only... it was a Gothard approved hobby and busineses. She made the best of what was available.

7.  Never say never....Derrick ring any bells?

 

I wish on most of these, but Jinger would not have been allowed any where near him if he didn't hold the same core belief on marriage, authority and b.c. Shorts are not forbidden by Gothard. Nor are pants. Just at events like Big Sandy when there is a dress code. If husband/Dad says they are fine then then they are. Ditto normal bathing suits--Anna's Mom wore a normal, if dated, swim suit at the beach with a normal cover up like anyone's Grandma would wear.

They will have kids the whole time the show is on. They will not "space" them naturally or anything else that normal people do. They will have sex and have kids and have sex and have kids. And soon they will joke about sex and about making more babies because this is a tv show. That 's all this family does. Hump like rabbits and give birth as often as possible--not as often as God allows.

 

I always got the feeling when Jeremy was with Jim-Bob he told him whatever he wanted to hear and knew once they got married he could do whatever he pleased. 

I do agree Jeremy is controlling but in this case it may turn out to be a good thing.  I imagine Jeremy loved the notoriety the Jinger as the preachers wife.  At the end of the day I feel like they make a good match:  Jeremy wants to lead and Jinger wants instruction. Rather than Jessa bossing her around Jeremy is.    

[AlternativeVoice]

Jeremy doesn't believe that be "fruitful and multiply " means having a ton of kids. He thinks u can be fruitful by reading and preaching God's word and multiply by converting people. Completely different than what Gorthars teaches. Jeremy isn't following any religious headcase. He wants to be the leader. The next Joel Olsteen if you will. His babies are his congregation. Jinger would never go for a guy that expected a dozen or more kids. She wants to see the world. At first I thought maybe a handful of kids like 5 or 6 but now I doubt they will have more than 4 tops. No real spacing. She's gonna crank them out fast only because she wants to get the baby years out of the way while she is young. Definitely homeschool.

[nausicaa]

7 minutes ago, AlternativeVoice said:

Jeremy doesn't believe that be "fruitful and multiply " means having a ton of kids. He thinks u can be fruitful by reading and preaching God's word and multiply by converting people. Completely different than what Gorthars teaches. Jeremy isn't following any religious headcase. He wants to be the leader. The next Joel Olsteen if you will. His babies are his congregation. Jinger would never go for a guy that expected a dozen or more kids. She wants to see the world. At first I thought maybe a handful of kids like 5 or 6 but now I doubt they will have more than 4 tops. No real spacing. She's gonna crank them out fast only because she wants to get the baby years out of the way while she is young. Definitely homeschool.

Genuine questions, because apparently you are privy to information I am not:

1. Where has Jeremy stated that he is not Quiverfull?

2. When did Jinger state that she would never go for a guy who wanted a dozen or more kids? She is one of nineteen, was raised Quiverfull, and to my knowledge has never rejected Quiverfull teachings (which clearly state that birth control in any form is a sin).

3. When did Jinger state she wanted to see the world rather than be a mother?

I understand people feel for the Duggar daughters after all these years of watching them grow up. I also understand being hopeful and I understand seeing small changes as positives and speculating. But I do not understand this wild fan fiction people are writing and putting on here as Gospel truth with zero evidence to back it up (unless these questions have been answered on the show or in an article and I and FJ at large managed to completely miss it.)

[VineHeart137]

9 minutes ago, AlternativeVoice said:

Jeremy doesn't believe that be "fruitful and multiply " means having a ton of kids. He thinks u can be fruitful by reading and preaching God's word and multiply by converting people. Completely different than what Gorthars teaches. Jeremy isn't following any religious headcase. He wants to be the leader. The next Joel Olsteen if you will. His babies are his congregation. Jinger would never go for a guy that expected a dozen or more kids. She wants to see the world. At first I thought maybe a handful of kids like 5 or 6 but now I doubt they will have more than 4 tops. No real spacing. She's gonna crank them out fast only because she wants to get the baby years out of the way while she is young. Definitely homeschool.

I must have missed some stuff. Where did Jeremy say the he believes in being fruitful and multiplying by converting people? And where did Jinger say she wasn't planning to have a ton of kids?

Jinger may have said she wants to see the world, but Jessa has said she wants to adopt, yet within 6 months of having her first she was pregnant with her second, knowing full well she can't adopt while she has a baby. These people say one thing and do another all the time. Unless JinJer comes out and says they are limiting their family size, I don't see it happening.

 

ETA: nausicaa beat me to it, and more eloquently at that lol.

[sansan]

On 3/13/2017 at 1:23 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Dropping the G when pronouncing gerunds. Joy does this a great deal:

Examples: Courtin, Singin..

Shoot me, I'm Southern and kinda proud of it also.

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

<snip>

And yeah, this is going to sound really harsh towards the Duggar daughters, but I don't understand the "he was pretending to be Fundie so he could get Jinger" argument.  So he was willing to jump through all these hoops because he was just so smitten with...the limited conversation in the constant presence of chaperones? The ubiquity of "ums" and "likes" whenever she spoke? The lack of education, experience, hobbies, or independent opinions? A good looking guy like Jeremy  has plenty of options in dating. He pursued Jinger because he wanted just what he got: a submissive girlwoman who will submit to him. 

This just reminds me of a conversation I had with someone about the "OMG what if terrorists pretend to be refugees" argument for the Muslim ban -- you're assuming that someone would put on a facade for a good six months to two years, spend a huge amount of money, paperwork, and time while maintaining said facade, and then MAYBE achieve a somewhat nebulous goal that requires a ridiculous amount of variables and moving parts to achieve. People are lazy. Jeremy doesn't strike me as a long-game kind of guy; if he wanted a pretty girl on his level, he could have his pick. He wanted a submissive, meek maid/baby dispenser who gets him on TV and is the daughter of a multimillionaire. That's what he got with Jinger. I said it once before and I'm convinced of it more and more: Jeremy gives me major Prince Hans vibes.

[nokidsmom]

3 hours ago, luxfilia said:

I actually know someone to whom this scenario happened (at least the way she tells it). She grew up in a way that many would definitely call "fundie," and she met a guy who went to church with her, said the "party line" type things, and then, upon marrying, immediately stopped attending church and was emotionally abuse (+ whole different lifestyle, drugs and all). They ended up getting divorced (and it wasn't what her church and family call a "scriptural" divorce, since there was no cheating) and PLOT TWIST she is now a female preacher (HUGE change for someone who grew up how she did).

I totally believe that someone can do this and yes, as pointed out, lying to Daddy to "get the girl" is dishonest and assholish, just has the guy in the above post turned out to be.    Also, JB can be pretty smart and after dealing with plenty of fanboys / suitors is probably going to be pretty darn discerning on allowing a suitor to court a daughter.   I don't believe Jeremy faked anything to get to Jinger.  He might be more worldly and sophisticated than perhaps the other Duggar sons in laws but I think had he tried to fake it, JB would see right through him.

Now in the very unlikely event that he did actually fake it, it's not going to be freedom for JInger, it's going to be a big disappointment with the possibility of her returning home to the TTH with kids in tow.  

I used to think that a Duggar daughter could possibly escape via a fundie lite marriage (putting aside the honesty aspect for a moment) but JB is too smart and frankly the girls want a fundie husband, want a bunch of kids (whether they actually do or not is another issue)  they have been raised to want this and know no other life path. 

In a nutshell, Jinger is getting what she wants: a fundie husband to be the headship and lead / instruct / tell her what to do.   Jeremy is getting what he wants: a fundie wife who will be the meek and submissive helpmeet.

[unicorncastle]

22 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

 

In a nutshell, Jinger is getting what she wants: a fundie husband to be the headship and lead / instruct / tell her what to do.   Jeremy is getting what he wants: a fundie wife who will be the meek and submissive helpmeet.

2

Then why is everyone up in arms about all these Duggar marriages? If we legitimately beleive that that is the type of man these women want, to the point that we think they would leave their husbands and go back home, then why do we care so much about the choices they are making about their lives? They think gay people/feminism/etc is wrong and we are clearly misguided and living our lives wrong.  We think fundamentalism is wrong and they are not living their lives the right way. Isn't it the same thing?

[nokidsmom]

3 minutes ago, unicorncastle said:

They think gay people/feminism/etc is wrong and we are clearly misguided and living our lives wrong.  We think fundamentalism is wrong and they are not living their lives the right way. Isn't it the same thing?

Yes, both sides think the other side is doing it wrong.    There's also the wish from the "right side" that the "wrong" side will get it right.  For example, you convert to the "right" religion, or you will wake up and realize your "fundamentalism" is wrong.  I think it's a lot of that. 

[SilverBeach]

6 minutes ago, unicorncastle said:

 They think gay people/feminism/etc is wrong and we are clearly misguided and living our lives wrong.  We think fundamentalism is wrong and they are not living their lives the right way. Isn't it the same thing?

No. We don't want a theocracy. They want to force everyone to live like them. They want to restrict the freedom of others. They elected Trump for heaven's sake! Not the same thing at all.

[Tangy Bee]

3 hours ago, ValeryVal said:

THIS! I agree with you 100%

Oh crap...do you all think he did a, "Stephen Hammer"?!? I just thought about that. Completely forgot how he found Meredith while lurking on the internet. So far Stephen is progressing with his education. Meredith is progressing with staying meek and pregnant. Stephen could have had anyone, but it appeared he was very selective.

[Snarkle Motion]

I dunno, I think everyone overestimates how easy it is to meet people. Yes, he wanted a Christian wife who's been brought up with similar values and can guarantee purity/hasn't been exposed to "worldliness." And she should be attractive. How does one find a wife like this? Especially for someone whose upbringing was more on the worldly side. It's not like these girls are in college or creating online profiles. Not defending or supporting their strategy but I think they genuinely aren't able to find the type of girls they'd want to marry unless they meet through mutual friends, church groups, or homeschool conference. I just don't think it's so simple to state that they could have "any girl." Yep, they wanted someone sheltered and there is an amount of control inherent in that but I don't know if they set out looking for girls that were easily controlled.

24 minutes ago, unicorncastle said:

Then why is everyone up in arms about all these Duggar marriages? If we legitimately beleive that that is the type of man these women want, to the point that we think they would leave their husbands and go back home, then why do we care so much about the choices they are making about their lives? They think gay people/feminism/etc is wrong and we are clearly misguided and living our lives wrong.  We think fundamentalism is wrong and they are not living their lives the right way. Isn't it the same thing?

Yes we disagree and everyone is entitled to their opinions.   I am not keeping someone hostage in my home forcing them to support abortion or lgbtq rights or into an arranged marriage with someone against their will. 

[singsingsing]

11 minutes ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I dunno, I think everyone overestimates how easy it is to meet people. Yes, he wanted a Christian wife who's been brought up with similar values and can guarantee purity/hasn't been exposed to "worldliness." And she should be attractive. How does one find a wife like this? Especially for someone whose upbringing was more on the worldly side. It's not like these girls are in college or creating online profiles. Not defending or supporting their strategy but I think they genuinely aren't able to find the type of girls they'd want to marry unless they meet through mutual friends, church groups, or homeschool conference. I just don't think it's so simple to state that they could have "any girl." Yep, they wanted someone sheltered and there is an amount of control inherent in that but I don't know if they set out looking for girls that were easily controlled.

It's extremely easy to meet nice, conservative, 'pure', beautiful Christian girls. Colleges and churches are bursting at the seams with them. There tend to be far more conservative Christian young women than their male counterparts. There are many very conservative colleges and churches he could have looked to for a potential wife.

If the crux is that he wanted someone extremely sheltered and naive, well, that's kind of the point. Why pass over all the available pure, sweet, beautiful conservative Christian women and go for a Duggar? Wanting someone as naive as possible is pretty much all about control.

[I.SignedUpforthis]

This is my problem, seeing the control aspect of man in Duggar or Bates relationships... Or using them as example when to me it's clear that ...

Jessa is more dominant personality than Ben 

Erin is more dominant than Chad (pink bedroom)

whitney over Zach

jinger over Jeremy or that's what I see 

Jill more dominant than Derick 

alyssa certainly over John 

only Michael may have hero husband Brandon and that seems 50/50 even

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, unicorncastle said:

Then why is everyone up in arms about all these Duggar marriages? If we legitimately beleive that that is the type of man these women want, to the point that we think they would leave their husbands and go back home, then why do we care so much about the choices they are making about their lives? They think gay people/feminism/etc is wrong and we are clearly misguided and living our lives wrong.  We think fundamentalism is wrong and they are not living their lives the right way. Isn't it the same thing?

That's a false equivalency. I do not want to create any laws in which people are forced to have abortions, forced to go to college, or forced to limit how many children they have. However, Fundamentalists want to ultimately create a theocracy in this country and create laws that would force everyone, Christian or not, into not being able to terminate pregnancies, not able to access birth control, and have their children taught unverifiable stories that are based on religious myths.

Hell, there are Fundies who don't even think women should be able to vote or hold any type of position over a man.

 

 

[nausicaa]

39 minutes ago, I.SignedUpforthis said:

...

jinger over Jeremy or that's what I see 

Jill more dominant than Derick 

alyssa certainly over John 

Again, do you people have some personal communications with the Duggars and Bateses that I am not privy to? 

We watch them on reality TV shows and in social media, we do not know them personally. I do know they are members of a religious sect that states the husband is dominant and the wife is his helpmeet who must defer to him. The husband has the final say in all things. Until I hear any of this people who profit from selling Fundamentalism, clearly reject Fundamentalist teachings, I'm going to assume they still believe those things.

 I'm really trying not to be a pedantic bitch here, but well it seems the time has come for pedantic bitchery. This is not a Duggar or Bates fan site. At its base we are here to discuss the dangers of Fundamentalism. Obviously we thread drift and discuss pretty dresses and cute babies, and God knows I'm participated in that as much as the next person, but the prettiest dresses and cutest babies in the world shouldn't distract us from what these people believe in and want to force others to believe as well.

This is not a soap opera that we are writing fan fiction for. These are real people who cause real pain to people (imo everyone should read the Gothard lawsuit before posting on Duggar threads) and are trying to limit and harm the lives of all of us, women especially.

And for newer posters, I strongly recommend you do some research, poke around the archives, and educate yourselves on the dangerous ideology that is behind the glossy images projected in the media. I don't mind honest questions, but it seems we have a lot of posters who don't even understand the basics of what Gothard, IFB, Fundamentalism, and Quiverfull are about. I can understand that; I wasn't raised Quiverfull and didn't know a lot about it either. But I didn't start posting guns ablazing to defend these people before learning about what their beliefs and background actually were.,

Also, this thread has given me a whole new appreciation for @formergothardite

[Chicken bones]

Actually, it was @AlternativeVoice who had the "facts" about Jeremy. But @I.SignedUpforthis had some...interesting... insights on the dominant players in each relationship.  Can't say i particularly agreeon all those.

[nausicaa]

4 minutes ago, Chicken bones said:

Actually, it was @AlternativeVoice who had the "facts" about Jeremy. But @I.SignedUpforthis had some...interesting... insights on the dominant players in each relationship.  Can't say i particularly agreeon all those.

I should have been clearer--I.SignedUpforThis wrote her impressions as if they were facts, i.e., "Jill more dominant than Derrick, alyssa certainly over John" as did AlternativeVoice. To me, both posts are written as if they have facts based on some evidence I've yet to ever be exposed to.

I should probably take a break from this thread. And bake FormerGothardite some muffins or something.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, I.SignedUpforthis said:

This is my problem, seeing the control aspect of man in Duggar or Bates relationships... Or using them as example when to me it's clear that ...

Jessa is more dominant personality than Ben 

Erin is more dominant than Chad (pink bedroom)

whitney over Zach

jinger over Jeremy or that's what I see 

Jill more dominant than Derick 

alyssa certainly over John 

only Michael may have hero husband Brandon and that seems 50/50 even

You keep using that word, I don't think it means what you think it means.

[I.SignedUpforthis]

8 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

I should have been clearer--I.SignedUpforThis wrote her impressions as if they were facts, i.e., "Jill more dominant than Derrick, alyssa certainly over John" as did AlternativeVoice. To me, both posts are written as if they have facts based on some evidence I've yet to ever be exposed to.

I should probably take a break from this thread. And bake FormerGothardite some muffins or something.

those relationships may be 50/50 but being 'man' controlled when Erin was finishing her music degree and Chad was in the audience.  People act like the women are kept in cages or swept under a rug.  I do believe Jessa has a dominant personality.  Not that I know them but you can tell some things from afar.

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

I can understand wishing for really good things to happen for Jinger and her siblings, because many of us thought we knew them from watching 19 Kids. But wishful thinking is just that. A pair of shorts is just a pair of shorts. (Cute as I may think she looks in them.)

Jinger hasn't made any statements or acted in any way that indicates any fundamental changes in her views/beliefs. Jeremy has made his views available for the world to hear in his You Tube sermons. 

If I had as much faith in my wishful thinking as I've read in some of these posts, I'd go buy a bunch of lottery tickets. The odds are I'd lose. And the odds are likely that the Duggar offspring won't make any significant changes without really hard thinking and struggle. 

And I should probably make @formergothardite a pot of tea or coffee to go with @nausicaa's muffins.