Jana's future part 2

[Childless]

Maybe she's trying to stay single until JB and M kick off and then go off and live a normal life.

[JesusCampSongs]

1 hour ago, Fun Undies said:

My counter (not that I necessarily hold this opinion myself), but could some of Jana's pained expressions/not happy be that she doesn't want to get married?  And the realization that she's "going to have to" soon??  I mean, if we flip it to not wanting to be married, then some of those talking heads of her looking awkward/pained could be because she doesn't know how to tell anyone the "truth".  Her very specific conditions of a potential mate could be a reflection of her rehearsing what she thinks others want to hear.  Her parents "encouraging" her to not to dwell on a potential mate, could just easily because she's mentioned she's not interested, and they try to downplay it as her Christian virtue or something, keeping sweet till the One God Has For You makes an appearance.

Alternative alternative explanation: she genuinely does want to get married, but she thinks Jill and Jessa's husbands are losers and doesn't want to marry someone like that--but recognizes that the bulk of her options consist of weirdo, fame-seeking manchildren or fundie hangers-on from less-well-off families. As one of the kids with the clearest memories of the poverty the family experienced before TLC's gravy train rolled in, I can see her not wanting to risk experiencing that again, either by relying on the finite money coming from TLC (and being beholden to her parents forever) or by marrying someone with the grifting "ministry" mentality. I can see where finding someone within their religious parameters that has a decent work ethic would be challenging. 

Too bad the Mortons aren't the right kind of fundie and all their older sons have been married off. 

In all seriousness, I maintain that Joshgate has significantly hampered the Duggar kids' marriage prospects. I wasn't raised full-bore fundie, but attended several fundie-lite churches (one of which is affiliated with an event some of the Bates kids recently attended, and I went to back in the day) throughout my childhood and teen years. The "sin in the camp" mentality runs really deep, and if one member of a family is involved in some kind of impropriety, it is frequently assumed that the other family members were somehow complicit. The verse about fruit trees ("By their fruits, you shall know them" from Matthew) was often used to criticize adults (and sometimes siblings) based on the behavior of a given child in that family.

Between that and conservative Christianity's totally fucked up attitude towards sex, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Duggar kids were considered a poor marriage prospect by higher-ups in the cult, with the boys being seen as potential predators in their own right and the girls being seen as damaged goods. I think it's pretty telling that, despite their high profile within ATI/IBLP and (formerly) close relationship with Gothard, none of the Duggars' kids have married into the other prominent families-- and it's not like there's some shortage of same-age peers. 

 

ETA: I honestly find fundie marrying habits to be hilariously Austen-esque. So much social climbing and intrigue! 

[hollywood]

I do wonder, with all these kids, if they have a will put together on who will care for the kids and finances and stuff if they pass away or something. Jana is a woman so not gonna go to her. Grandma possibly but she is old as well. Probably Josh, but I would sooner trust JD.

[HarleyQuinn]

Regardless of why she's doing it, I still feel bad that she'll be 27 sharing a bedroom with 4 kids under 10.

[eveandadam]

1 hour ago, JesusCampSongs said:

ETA: I honestly find fundie marrying habits to be hilariously Austen-esque. So much social climbing and intrigue! 

YAASSSSS!

So far, only Jinger managed to socially climb through marriage, or at least financially.

Anna, too , if you see it from the other perspective. I'm sure the social climbing factor was the main reason for her marrying Josh despite knowing what had happened in the past.

But seriously, the opportunity of climbing higher in the social hierarchy is still the main factor for women to marry certain men, still here in the west and still today. It's sad, really. I really feel that about half of my female friends married mainly because of that reason, and some of them succeeded A LOT to the point where you ask yourself how did that happen?

It's like in Jane Austen's times but back then you could talk about money and social status openly and everyone knew that women wanted to marry "up". But today they have to construct a lie about it because you cannot openly admit your marriage goals.

 

[Fun Undies]

3 hours ago, eveandadam said:

YAASSSSS!

So far, only Jinger managed to socially climb through marriage, or at least financially.

Anna, too , if you see it from the other perspective. I'm sure the social climbing factor was the main reason for her marrying Josh despite knowing what had happened in the past.

But seriously, the opportunity of climbing higher in the social hierarchy is still the main factor for women to marry certain men, still here in the west and still today. It's sad, really. I really feel that about half of my female friends married mainly because of that reason, and some of them succeeded A LOT to the point where you ask yourself how did that happen?

It's like in Jane Austen's times but back then you could talk about money and social status openly and everyone knew that women wanted to marry "up". But today they have to construct a lie about it because you cannot openly admit your marriage goals.

 

I'm pretty sure back in my lurky-loo days I saw this explained away in a (to me at least) very probable way.

As in, I doubt that Anna was really informed of the details.  Josh himself might have confessed to her that he's "recovering from his sins", but I'd be really surprised if he admitted who his victims were.  And that smug bastard knows how to manipulate, so talking to a then seventeen year old sheltered Gothardite about sex was probably a big no-no.  I could very easily see him telling her things in very vague terms and then spinning it around to make it about her being able to the Christian thing - i.e. forgiveness.

"Anna, I've had some very tough sins to overcome, but thanks to God, I've recovered.  With the help of my parents and community, I've learned to get past my own sexual issues, and realize now that I need to follow God's plan for love and marriage.  I feel God leading my heart to you, and I feel like we can help redeem each other and start out our lives together.  Will you forgive me like Jesus has?  Will you allow us to have a Christian marriage, and love me like Christ??"

. . . Then add her own Dad probably downplaying the seriousness of it (because Jim Bob 100% downplayed it to him), and I truly don't think he admitted exactly what he did (if he ever did), until after they were married.  And then what she was supposed to do? (at least in her world)

^ sorry for the rant, and I'm certainly not trying to defend her, but I just seriously doubt she went into that marriage knowing everything about Josh.  Though I could certainly see at least her family wanting her to socially climb up that ladder, and that probably helped sway the whole family to ignore any warning signs.

[JesusCampSongs]

3 hours ago, eveandadam said:

YAASSSSS!

So far, only Jinger managed to socially climb through marriage, or at least financially.

Anna, too , if you see it from the other perspective. I'm sure the social climbing factor was the main reason for her marrying Josh despite knowing what had happened in the past.

But seriously, the opportunity of climbing higher in the social hierarchy is still the main factor for women to marry certain men, still here in the west and still today. It's sad, really. I really feel that about half of my female friends married mainly because of that reason, and some of them succeeded A LOT to the point where you ask yourself how did that happen?

It's like in Jane Austen's times but back then you could talk about money and social status openly and everyone knew that women wanted to marry "up". But today they have to construct a lie about it because you cannot openly admit your marriage goals.

 

Agreed; thus far it looks like Jinger is the only one who has married into relative financial stability. It looks like Joy will be, as well. And while the Duggars have a standard of living I'd never marry into, they were a vast improvement over the Kellers (poor Anna). 

I see marital social climbing as somewhat unavoidable in a society where most of the wealth is inherited instead of earned. The fact that one sex is arbitrarily hamstrung, both educationally and economically, relative to the other doesn't help. Personally, I'm not keen on marrying rich for the sake of marrying rich, but not having to live paycheck-to-paycheck and maybe being able to retire one day are nice thoughts.

[Fun Undies]

I think so long both participants in the relationship are open and honest about their motivations, then I really have no opinion about a woman marrying for other reasons than love.  I see nothing wrong with it, again, as long as the reasons are shared before the marriage.

This coming from a woman who comes from a poor family, who married into a poor family
So we didn't really have to wonder if we're being married for money, or social standing lol.

[wandering woman]

There is no way of knowing why Jana is not married and probably not courting.  Here are a few possibilities.

1.  She hasn't met anyone she is interested in.

2.  She is happy with her life in TTH.

3.  She doesn't want to have a boatload of kids and is putting off marriage until she is older.

4.  We don't speculate on sexuality. Just don't. Ever.

5.  She has spent a lot of time with Ben and Derick and doesn't want to end up with a similar loser.

6.  JB and M are  discouraging her from courting because they need her at home.

She is gorgeous and probably quite smart. I'll be interested to see what is ahead for her.  The purchase of the tattoo parlor is interesting.  I'm looking forward to seeing how that turns out.

 

[DaisyD]

WE DON'T FUCKING SPECULATE ON SEXUALITY OF MINORS OR THOSE STILL SUBJECTED TO THEIR PARENTS' ASSHATTERY BY VIRTUE OF STILL LIVING UNDER THEIR ROOF. STOP IT.

 

[amendgitan]

8 hours ago, Fun Undies said:

My counter (not that I necessarily hold this opinion myself), but could some of Jana's pained expressions/not happy be that she doesn't want to get married?  And the realization that she's "going to have to" soon??  I mean, if we flip it to not wanting to be married, then some of those talking heads of her looking awkward/pained could be because she doesn't know how to tell anyone the "truth".  Her very specific conditions of a potential mate could be a reflection of her rehearsing what she thinks others want to hear.  Her parents "encouraging" her to not to dwell on a potential mate, could just easily because she's mentioned she's not interested, and they try to downplay it as her Christian virtue or something, keeping sweet till the One God Has For You makes an appearance.

Okay, I don't necessarily even agree that that's what's going on, but just trying to throw it out there as a possibility (because really, who knows??)

Some reasons she might not want to get married:
- she's just not interested
- She could be traumatized from the Josh scandals (NOT saying she's a victim, but just being the oldest daughter, having to deal with the psychological fallout of younger sisters being sexually abused, and a potential friend, is traumatizing in and of itself).  Thus her idea of a healthy sexual identity could be completely warped (Jim Bob and Michelle's general mockery of "love expressions" surely only adds to this).

- it's a way to control how many children she has of her own down the road and/or stick around for the other kids
 

But again, who knows??

Of course anything is possible. But I have reason not to share the belief that many have that Jana is somethow steadfastly refusing courtship in order to control her reproduction or to avoid having to be the slave to a new man and her own endless brood of kids. 

I dont think she's avoiding marriage due to any trauma either. She has enough examples of marriages that aren't like her creepy brother's and reading the police reports makes clear there would be no other reason for her to have any personal trauma due to her brother's past crimes. 

I think we can know with some certainty what's going on with her  when we know enough about her culture. And observe her.

And she looks sad to me. 

If she had enough resiliency of spirit and enough autonomy to reject marriage in order to control her reproduction, her body, her drudgery, she would be able to leave, in my opinion. 

Almost no one wants to remain an eternal child under their father's authority, remaining in their childhood bedroom, having no hope of privacy or any kind of true adulthood, regardless of rapidly declining childcare duties. It's  stunted and sad, even for fundies with their limited worldview and  lack of agency. 

She wants to be master of her own domain. She wants the status of an adult woman in her culture. The queenly status of being Wife and Mother. 

There is virtually no way to obtain a modicum of respect at her age in her culture without it. The thought that she's quietly resisting misogyny by remaining her daddy's eternal helpmeet and living in her childhood bedroom with a bunch of little girls,defies reason, in my opinion. 

[buggers]

I honestly don't think a lack of suitors is a problem. Even after all of the Josh stuff, the next male suitor was a wealthy, established actual adult. Living in the cult house might not be fun per say, but the kids are now old enough to do their own thing most of the time, so she's not spending all of her time raising children anymore. She gets a hefty allowance, obviously since she just bought a tattoo parlor, and she can pretty much fo as she pleases with her time - which seems to be DIY projects and hanging out with friends. I think Jana knows that her freedom and time will drastically change if she gets married, and she is putting it off for now.

[eveandadam]

2 hours ago, Fun Undies said:

I think so long both participants in the relationship are open and honest about their motivations, then I really have no opinion about a woman marrying for other reasons than love.  I see nothing wrong with it, again, as long as the reasons are shared before the marriage.

This coming from a woman who comes from a poor family, who married into a poor family
So we didn't really have to wonder if we're being married for money, or social standing lol.

I don't know if many of the women who marry for exactly that reason really are completely open with their husbands. I cannot imagine them saying "honey, I love that you have more money than what I'm used to", or maybe that's just a cultural thing.

My wife came from a wealthy family that got poorer within the last 3 generationsm whereas my family got a little more successful over the last decades , so we met exactly in the middle of any factor one can think of: education, culture, finances, goals in life and so on.  we often wonder how couples manage that do not have the same background?

[titerlitury]

My boyfriend is a wonderful man, I like his parents and siblings, but hey, I wondered many times if I can stand them all as my potential family. And they are very normal! 

I believe in such "Catch 22" when talking about potential spouses for Duggar girls. Even if you are normal guy, you are not, because you want Jim Boob to be your FIL.

[CorruptionInc.]

25 minutes ago, titerlitury said:

I believe in such "Catch 22" when talking about potential spouses for Duggar girls. Even if you are normal guy, you are not, because you want Jim Boob to be your FIL.

Derick scoped out JB to be his prayer partner. Not saying he was looking to marry a Duggar girl, maybe some Duggar Wealth to be sent his Mission way??? 

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, CorruptionInc. said:

Derick scoped out JB to be his prayer partner. Not saying he was looking to marry a Duggar girl, maybe some Duggar Wealth to be sent his Mission way??? 

Oh Derick and Ben were both drooling to be Duggars. Prayer partner my ass, more like look at me! I want to be a grifter! Or look at me I have no idea what I'm doing. Definitely wanted the Duggar fame and lack of real jobs. 

[buggers]

13 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Oh Derick and Ben were both drooling to be Duggars. Prayer partner my ass, more like look at me! I want to be a grifter! Or look at me I have no idea what I'm doing. Definitely wanted the Duggar fame and lack of real jobs. 

I agree. There is no way that Derrick wasn't think about marrying into the brood when he called up Jim Bob. There are a million Christian men he could have called up to be a prayer partner. And for Bin, the Seewald family had been adoringly following the Duggars for years, waiting to make a move. Although who knows how they feel about the Duggars ever since the Josh stuff. 

[CorruptionInc.]

1 hour ago, buggers said:

I agree. There is no way that Derrick wasn't think about marrying into the brood when he called up Jim Bob. There are a million Christian men he could have called up to be a prayer partner. And for Bin, the Seewald family had been adoringly following the Duggars for years, waiting to make a move. Although who knows how they feel about the Duggars ever since the Josh stuff. 

Perfect example of "never judge a book by its cover" silly fundies.

[grandmadugger]

5 hours ago, CorruptionInc. said:

Derick scoped out JB to be his prayer partner. Not saying he was looking to marry a Duggar girl, maybe some Duggar Wealth to be sent his Mission way??? 

I've always thought that Derick contacted Boob for money. It makes sense JB is known in the area, puts on the air of a good Christian, and I'm sure Derek was expected to fundraise. Instead of money for his work he got a wife. 

[Carm_88]

1 hour ago, grandmadugger said:

I've always thought that Derick contacted Boob for money. It makes sense JB is known in the area, puts on the air of a good Christian, and I'm sure Derek was expected to fundraise. Instead of money for his work he got a wife. 

Haha but he's still being a missionary and not truly working. So...he won? I'm sure that they're getting paid for Counting On. He probably considers himself very lucky. If his intention wasn't to bag a Duggar girl.  

[grandmadugger]

55 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Haha but he's still being a missionary and not truly working. So...he won? I'm sure that they're getting paid for Counting On. He probably considers himself very lucky. If his intention wasn't to bag a Duggar girl.  

I don't know if he won or not. It appeared as though he was working as a real missionary when he was JB's prayer partner. He got a Duggar daughter for a wife who isn't equipped to be far away from her family for extended amounts of time. Not only that but it disqualified him from going out with real missionaries or the backing of a respected organization. 

[titerlitury]

17 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

ETA: I honestly find fundie marrying habits to be hilariously Austen-esque. So much social climbing and intrigue! 

I love your comment!

And it's so so tricky, when all you want is stable, orderly life outside parent's (mad)house, and you get dumb mr Collins, with his crazy, nosy, shameless patroness, lady De Bourgh. And this treates anyone, who want to marry in Duggarville.

[Chevreuil]

Does Jana really have a choice at all? I know Jim bob says that he discusses it with the girls but given their beliefs on women, headship and courting isnt it quite likely that she isnt given a choice? or only given the illusion that she has the choice.  

[Kira]

On 11/24/2016 at 2:56 PM, buggers said:

I honestly don't think a lack of suitors is a problem. Even after all of the Josh stuff, the next male suitor was a wealthy, established actual adult. Living in the cult house might not be fun per say, but the kids are now old enough to do their own thing most of the time, so she's not spending all of her time raising children anymore. She gets a hefty allowance, obviously since she just bought a tattoo parlor, and she can pretty much fo as she pleases with her time - which seems to be DIY projects and hanging out with friends. I think Jana knows that her freedom and time will drastically change if she gets married, and she is putting it off for now.

I know her sisters found suitors  but my  question is  are  guys  asking about Jana.  It's possible that  Jana  has had a  broken  courtship(or whatever)  or  has turned  down suitors(and vice versa) . Who knows.      

Also,  is Jeremy  wealthy? I don't think so.

37 minutes ago, Chevreuil said:

Does Jana really have a choice at all? I know Jim bob says that he discusses it with the girls but given their beliefs on women, headship and courting isnt it quite likely that she isnt given a choice? or only given the illusion that she has the choice.  

I  definitely  think  Jana has a choice about  courting.

[immodest_countenance]

 

On 11/24/2016 at 2:56 PM, buggers said:

I honestly don't think a lack of suitors is a problem. Even after all of the Josh stuff, the next male suitor was a wealthy, established actual adult. Living in the cult house might not be fun per say, but the kids are now old enough to do their own thing most of the time, so she's not spending all of her time raising children anymore. She gets a hefty allowance, obviously since she just bought a tattoo parlor, and she can pretty much fo as she pleases with her time - which seems to be DIY projects and hanging out with friends. I think Jana knows that her freedom and time will drastically change if she gets married, and she is putting it off for now.

I think Jana keeps very busy. She's the one always behind the scenes and looking for things to do and problems to solve. Looking at the other girls I can only really think of one or two things they seem to be interested as individuals. Jill: midwifery, jessa: organizing?, jinger: photography, coffee, joy: tomboy-ing (is that even a hobby). Jana on the other hand, seems to have several projects and interests, drawing, DIYing, interior decorating, gardening, music, etc. In photos with friends she actually seems really relaxed and fun. 

While I think she would like to get married, i don't think she's in such as rush as her sisters, who seem to just sit around the TTH except waiting for prince charming. I think Jana wants a "dirt under his fingernails" type of guy, because she doesn't want to be bored with sitting around the house doing nothing. She said as much season 1.