Jana's future part 2

[samurai_sarah]

Carry on from here:

 

[Gossamer1]

Here's hoping this poor woman actually gets to have a future! 

 

[Arix]

32 minutes ago, Gossamer1 said:

Here's hoping this poor woman actually gets to have a future! 

 

For serious, I hope she goes to college, even if it's PCC.

[ksgranola1]

JB would never allow it. If he would, she would have gone by now.

And she's too valuable to the brand. I suspect she's running that household.

[AreYouThereGothard?]

Not sure if this has been addressed yet, but if the kids are so motivated, could they sue JB and Michelle for their share of whatever the earned from the show? Didn't that happen with Macaulay Culkin and some other child stars- their parents hoarded their money has minors and then had to sue to see any of it? While I admittedly can't see any of the children being so bold, it's not impossible and who knows what the breaking point might be. 

[NotAnIncubator]

I don't see Jana leaving until all the girls are gone.  (snip)

Edited June 26, 2016 by Coconut Flan
Do not speculate on who was Josh's victim.

[SassyPants]

2 hours ago, AreYouThereGothard? said:

Not sure if this has been addressed yet, but if the kids are so motivated, could they sue JB and Michelle for their share of whatever the earned from the show? Didn't that happen with Macaulay Culkin and some other child stars- their parents hoarded their money has minors and then had to sue to see any of it? While I admittedly can't see any of the children being so bold, it's not impossible and who knows what the breaking point might be. 

Those children actors are in SAG and have benefits and protections (educational, financial, work hours health, welfare and safety) provided through the union. Kids in reality TV shows have no such protections.

[Suz8710]

Watching the Happy Birthday Anna video really confirms to me how wide an age gap there is between Joy and Jana. Has there been any *recent* confirmation that Tabitha is even still there? I hope she is, having  other single fundies her age around is a good thing for her. It'll be weird at the TTC when Jinger leaves, though I'm not sure how close they ever truly were. 

[season of life]

Jana is 26. I predict that if she gets married, she will be married at 28 or 29. Or she may end up leaving the TTH at 30. 

[Italiangirl]

I really don't know about Jana 'cause in one way i hope se get married and go out from that crazy family, in the other maybe se could be more confortable in stay in a situation in with se is the boss (under the controll of JB and M,  but still the boss) 

Edited June 25, 2016 by Italiangirl

[Melissa1977]

On 6/24/2016 at 11:45 AM, NotAnIncubator said:

I don't see Jana leaving until all the girls are gone.(snip)

Maybe, but I think Jana is not protecting little girls from abusing brothers, but from neglecting parents. Jana has full raised Josie, so the bonding must be strong, specially because Josie's health issues as a baby/toddler. If that's true, it makes  difficult Jana to  leave, at least since Josie gets older enough.

Jana knows that Michelle can't homeschool no more, plus probably fails feeding and even organising the kids. I mean, Michelle was good scheduling in the  past, but this gets energy and I see her with no energy nowadays.

When cameras are off, that house  must be very sad. And probably Jana's lap is the only place where little ones find a little tenderness and security.

Or maybe Jana's suitors are all a bunch of jerks and she's clever enough to wait for a better one.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Coconut Flan
removing part of quote

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

Jana would be a good career woman. Didn't she say she wanted to work along side her husband because she doesn't want to be bored all day? (like Jessa and Anna ). Jana strikes me as someone who always has to be doing something, whether its sewing, gardening, or home renovations. She isn't a  couch potato, which makes me even more sad that her lifestyle restricts her from doing  a lot of things. Maybe in some secular life she would enjoy traveling and going to bars for music gigs....like normal 26 year olds. 

[theinvisiblegirl]

But... But if Jana escapes/gets married, who will they use as props in awkward birthday videos talking about servant's hearts and godly personalities?

[AnnaRuk09]

Off topic but remember that whole zach bates thing? Does anyone know where that came from? I read she obviously denied the courtship request but I wonder who is this "source who spit out this information?

[Chickenbutt]

So if Jana never marries, can she move out of Duggarville and get an apartment of her own, or by Duggar (Gothard) standards does she have to live with her parents for the rest of her (their) life?

[2manyKidzzz]

21 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

So if Jana never marries, can she move out of Duggarville and get an apartment of her own, or by Duggar (Gothard) standards does she have to live with her parents for the rest of her (their) life?

What are the other fundie females who don't marry doing? I am not familiar with all of the families at all. 

Anyway, with Jinger soon to marry,. I can't help but feel badly for Jana. It just can't be fun. 

[violynn]

28 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

So if Jana never marries, can she move out of Duggarville and get an apartment of her own, or by Duggar (Gothard) standards does she have to live with her parents for the rest of her (their) life?

She has to stay at home, under JB's umbrella of protection.  When JB kicked off, she'd move to JD's umbrella.

[Chickenbutt]

So that means she has to stay in the house to be under his umbrella? Would she move to JD or into Josh and Anna's house to be their CinderJana?

[eveandadam]

I think the rules apply that did during Victorian times. If you are at least middle class, and an "old maid" you stay with your father until he dies. Then you get passed on to your oldest brothers household if he can afford to keep you, if not, it's the next close male relative who can afford to keep you.

Of course this only applies when where middle or upper class because in the lower classes everyone had to work, including women and girls, oftentimes in the households of the higher classes which meant that girls, who went to work as cooks or maids, would leave their home, unmarried, and live in another household outside of their family.

 

I think it's so funny that the quiverfull lifestyle more or less implies that all the families can afford to keep their unmarried female relatives without them having to REALLY work (fulltime and bring in a normal salary, not like giving piano lessons here and there or pretending to flip cars). I love how they automoatically ignore that most women and girls during the "olden times" had to work their buts off outside their home just to make the family survive. Stay at home daughters and moms have always been a luxury of the (upper) middle class and the upper class. But of course, quiverfull families are automatically middle class, especially with 10 kids or more, right? right?!

My G-d, it's like they are living in a Jane Austen novel...

 

 

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, eveandadam said:I think the rules apply that did during Victorian times. If you are at least middle class, and an "old maid" you stay with your father until he dies. Then you get passed on to your oldest brothers household if he can afford to keep you, if not, it's the next close male relative who can afford to keep you.

Of course this only applies when where middle or upper class because in the lower classes everyone had to work, including women and girls, oftentimes in the households of the higher classes which meant that girls, who went to work as cooks or maids, would leave their home, unmarried, and live in another household outside of their family.

I think it's so funny that the quiverfull lifestyle more or less implies that all the families can afford to keep their unmarried female relatives without them having to REALLY work (fulltime and bring in a normal salary, not like giving piano lessons here and there or pretending to flip cars). I love how they automoatically ignore that most women and girls during the "olden times" had to work their buts off outside their home just to make the family survive. Stay at home daughters and moms have always been a luxury of the (upper) middle class and the upper class. But of course, quiverfull families are automatically middle class, especially with 10 kids or more, right? right?!

My G-d, it's like they are living in a Jane Austen novel...

Okay--pet peeve here. The world of Jane Austen's novels is a lot saner and more intelligent than the fundie world.

However, I think your point about the fundie assumption of "middle-class standards" is an excellent one.  The stay-at-home wife is a middle-class, late 18th, early 19th century invention.  Ironically, it is connected to the movement of the site of production (or commerce) away from the home/family. It is also connected to the idea that a woman's withdrawal from the market economy is a sign of her men-folks success as providers. 

I did want to note that, during the late eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, in Europe and America, the responsibility for unwed sisters did not automatically rest on the oldest or "head" of the family--or even the wealthiest brother.  To give you examples from Austen, since you mentioned her, in Pride and Prejudice, it is Charlotte's brothers (not just her eldest brother) who are relieved when she marries Mr. Collins,   And when Mr. Austen died, the financial responsibility for their mother and unmarried sisters was shared by the Austen brothers.  Although the wealthiest gave more, all the brothers chipped in.

Also, in both Austen's time and later, after the Victorian period begins, unmarried sisters often went to their married sisters, to help with the kids. Even so, it was possible for them to live alone, with a chaperone or female companion after they were no longer of marriageable age.  In Emma, the heroine plans to remain unmarried and live alone (presumably with some companion) after her father dies, but with frequent long visits from nieces.  Many, many years later, Jane Austen's own sister live alone, as did at least one of their nieces.  (You can get all this information from the excellent biographies and summaries in The Republic of Pemberley, a great fan website.)

Other times unmarried women kept house for unmarried brothers or even nephews or uncles.  Sadly, also, a lot of unmarried (or even widowed) women made the rounds of visiting different relatives at different times, never really having a home.  For the family (and sometimes for the women) this was preferable to having them "burden" one household or having them get a job as paid companions.  Lastly, in the US, middle class women past marriageable age were often able to set up housekeeping with one or two other "old maids"--and even work-- without too much opposition. (It was harder in England and on the European continent.) I am too lazy to find specific references after my foray into Austen.  But just think of all the unmarried activists and educators.

In short, I dispute the parallel with Austen or most Victorian courtship novels, but I heartily agree that the Duggars' ideas (Gothard's ideas) are based on a distorted, "idealized" Victorian notion of the relation between men and women and the "invisibility" of the unmarried woman in a social sense. ( Economically and legally, unmarried women over the age of 20 had the same right to control their lives as their brothers, but social pressure and lack of political often limited their autonomy.). Alas, the Gothardites (or at least JB) are even more extreme in their denying women autonomy than the Victorians.

[Italiangirl]

It makes me smile that they didn't even know the rules of the agenzie they watt to copy, attraverso least if you watt to do copy make it right no? Is non so hard... Expecially since that JB and M goes to the pubblic school and had study something atleast right? 

[EmCatlyn]

6 hours ago, Italiangirl said:

It makes me smile that they didn't even know the rules of the agenzie they watt to copy, attraverso least if you watt to do copy make it right no? Is non so hard... Expecially since that JB and M goes to the pubblic school and had study something atleast right? 

They don't realize that they are "copying" anything.  They believe that they are following the true interpretation of the Bible.  And what is most absurd, they believe that it is their own (or at least JB's) interpretation, even though they are clearly following the teachings of others such as Gothard.

As for learning history in highschool, this is what I think a high school graduate like JB probably knows about history:

"In the olden days we did not have cars, electricity or refrigerators. Women wore long skirts and couldn't vote while men were responsible for fighting wars and hunting and could vote.  The Pilgrims came to America for religious freedom.  King James wrote a divinely inspired translation of the Bible.   When a different  king of England denied American people their freedom and made them pay taxes, the Americans rebelled.  All the Founding Fathers were Christian (that is to say Protestant) and white.  They wore 3 corner hats and rode horses.  The women made flags and apple pie and had lots of children. The Wonderful Spirit of American Independence went west and settled the country From Sea to Shining Sea.

"Along the way there was a Civil War over states' rights.  It was brother against brother.  The North won and we have been One Nation under God ever since.  There were some misunderstandings with Native Americans, Mexicans and a few European powers which led to little wars, all of which America won.  The United States also won World War I and World War II.  Hitler was the bad guy in either WWI or WWII--probably WWII but maybe both?

" Along the way we invented airplanes and convenience food and we became the breadbasket of the world because of our superior technology.  Then there was Communism which tried to destroy The Free World and was against The American Way of Life.  The 1960s were a time of disturbing, exciting music and youth rebellion.  Women could vote and hold jobs and they wore mini-skirts. Birth control became legal and Free Love threatened the family.   Bible reading and praying in the schools was no longer allowed. After the Viet Nam war, abortion was made legal and we are now fighting a war within our borders to save unborn babies from their evil feminist mothers.  Ronald Reagan brought hope and dignity to America again."  

(I think JB graduated when Reagan was president, so I stop here.)

The school curriculum covers a lot more, but students forget a lot.  I teach college students and they don't seem to know much more when they come in.

[barbecutie]

Every time I see the title of this thread, my immediate thought has always been "Jana has no future".

[Bad Wolf]

Well, this will be the third younger sister to get married, and we have no idea what Jana thinks about it. Is she sad/mad it's not her? Is she glad not to have to be joyfully available? We really have no clue as to the real Duggars. They put on a good face...and then Joshgate happened. There's something rotten in Duggarville.

[chris]

1 hour ago, barbecutie said:

Every time I see the title of this thread, my immediate thought has always been "Jana has no future".

This is so depressingly true