Jinger and Jeremy: Married with...No Children (yet)

[Carm_88]

23 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Okay, this is BEC, but seriously. This pink lipstick does not look good, especially with Jill's dress.

Does poor Jill have a massive pimple on her forehead or is that just the lighting as well? 

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

On 11/10/2016 at 2:59 PM, yeahtotally said:

First time poster here! I apologize if this has been brought up in the past... but with so much talk about Jinger and what her role in Laredo would be, I wanted to learn more about Jeremy's mother.

Did you know she was a professional musician and is now the founder and executive director of a  non profit? http://www.swan4kids.org/about/ The non profit is an organization that provides children with incarcerated parents the opportunity to study music.  They provide musical instruments and lessons. At one point, Jeremy's mother was putting in 60-70 hrs a week before they got enough funds to hire an office assistant to help with the day to day work of the organization. 

I think this is promising? Like others have posted, I would love to see Jinger enroll in some classes (photography or art) and use her skills for good (in the workplace or as a way to give back like Jeremy's mother).

I really hope Jeremy's family drag Jinger into "normal" Christianity. Like wearing pants and watching Fox News....LOL. And Jinger did prison missionary work so there ya go! Good thing she has so much in common with this family she married into...maybe even more in common than with her own

[ginger135]

Perhaps Jeremy looks bored/tired in the first message video because he was sick of having to film private moments so much over the past few months.

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

On 11/10/2016 at 3:32 PM, Carol said:

Here are my thoughts.

Jeremy is his own man.  I think he appeared to go along with what Jim Bob wanted largely because he wanted to marry Ginger.  He's not from Hickville AK, he's from NYC and he's sophisticated, has good taste, shows an interest in things outside of religion, has traveled, appears to have an OK  mind about people who are different from him.  He's not fundie, wasn't raised to be fundie and will never be fundie despite what he said in the courtship.  If what was written above about his mother is true, he has a strong mother figure, not a cowering, adoring simpleton without a backbone.

I don't think he wants a wife who dresses in frumpers, has curly long hair sprayed to within an inch of it's life and who buys second hand everything because she doesn't think she's good enough for anything unused.  I think he wants a wife who compliments him and will look good standing next to him.  I'm not sure he wants a Joel Osteen ministry but I think he wants something similarly successful.  I don't think he wants 18 kids because I think he's got his feet on the ground regarding what kids cost and what it takes to maintain his lifestyle.  He's lived in the real world, not Duggerland, where everything is controlled by JB.

Much of what I wrote above makes him seem shallow.  I don't think he is the deepest thinker but I do think the JB lifestyle is out of the picture.  IMO he wants a happy wife and happy family and I think he'll teach Ginger that how she dresses, whether she travels alone or with a chaperone, whether she speaks her mind, whether she has a job, whether she is a baby factory...has nothing to do with whether she loves god.  I'm not saying it will come overnight but I expect to see a decline in the JB indoctrination within a year.

 

How about "God's Wombiest?"

Well said! I have to wonder if they really do feel like they "aren't good enough for new stuff" I've recently found it's more ethical to buy used clothing after watching a documentary but that would make me sad if these girls didn't feel "worth" anything new.  I could see where the idea would come from. Wow the effect of their up bringing goes deeper and deeper. I pray Jeremy takes care of Jinger!!!

On 11/10/2016 at 3:14 PM, HarryPotterFan said:

Bringing this over from the last thread. The fact that the bridesmaids didn't line up in an logical dress color order bothers me so much. Didn't the photographer notice that??

They can't because there is an odd number of colors....man those brown dresses look like mud. I think a blush pinky color would have looked better....or a champagne but that would have looked nude and god forbid NIKE

23 hours ago, MargaretElliott said:

Unfortunately, Jeremy is definitely and without a doubt fundie. His father is a preacher, and if you look up his sermons (I think some popped up in the Jinger courtship announcement thread?) he supports biblical patriarchy and headship and all that. So, Jeremy was raised to be fundie, even if his parents weren't Quiverfull. His own sermons, from what I can gather from his website, reflect these values as well. And pardon me if I seem antagonistic, but you say he will never be fundie despite what he says. I suggest that we take Jeremy's words seriously and assume that he is speaking from his heart, instead of lying to get Jinger out of the cult. I will assume that he says what he means and means what he says, because he chose to say those things. So, while he might be a different flavor of fundie than the Duggars, he is still part of the toxic and misogynistic culture that he was raised in.

I hope beyond hope that I am wrong, and he will treat Jinger with more value and respect than seems usual for fundie wives. And I hope she finds happiness as she defines it, not how we would define it for her. But Jeremy is fundie. Without a doubt.

All Christianity to an extent is fundie in term of patriarchy/modesty/pro life. But the way he dresses, his mother and grandmother wearing pants, him not having 1000 siblings...I think he'll never be "as fundy" as the Duggars. I was raised fundy lite and have attended Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical Free, and Bretherin In Christ churches and they all touch on biblical gender roles/dressing modestly, ect. But the difference is it comes from a place of love (Jesus loves us we should accept His love and extend that to everyone) vs fear like in Quiverfull (Skirts or hell, your choice) I was taught not to put down my husband/call him names and not to let my boobs hang out. Of course I thought this meant anyone who assaulted me it would be my fault but after reading the bible on my own I'm figuring out that's not the case.

[MyMilkshake]

21 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

People just added all the photos in HD to the article. It looks like we have the naked cake, the cupcake table with pumpkin, chocolate, and cranberry flavors, and a coffee bean goody bag table. Those goodies say "The Perfect Blend" on them. I knew she would incorporate coffee somehow!

The naked cake is gorgeous!
 

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

22 hours ago, Kira said:

Really? Have you seen Jeremy's(and Chuck's) views on homosexuality. They want to "cure" gays. I'm sure the Vuolos are happy Michael Pence is in the White House .

On a lighter note, don't we get tired of being wrong 

"College educated Derick and his working, pants wearing mother  will save Jill"

"Jessa just wants to marry to get away from the TTH. The Seewald will be using birth control"

I could use a million other examples of other families. We predict every fundie couple will stop after 2 or 3 kids. I'm not saying there isn't any hope for anyone in fundieland, I just need evidence.

 

I think they "stay fundy" for the show in terms of Jill and Derek. Derek is weak too he probably does what Jilly Muffin tells him to. Jessa is also a reckoning force with Bin...if they started wearing pants they'd loose their fan base. Plus growing up like that will take years of undoing to wear pants because they were forced to believe they were sinning and going to hell if they didn't That doesn't go away over night. Honestly the Duggar kids will never be feminists or LGBT activists but time will allow them to distance themselves from daddy. Jinger has the best shot since daddy doesn't control her husband and she is moving very far away. Once the show ends we'll see their true nature. And really I think if TLC told the girls "pants or no money" we'd see them all sport Levis. I could also see Jeremy "using" Jinger for fame.

 

UGH!!! We'll never know will we!

[elliha]

I have been reading a lot about how some people say that there is no hope for Jinger now that she is married because neither Jill nor Jessa changed. Do you really realize just how young all of these people are? Not even Josh is 30 years old and 30 is still relatively young. Plenty of my friends are 40-45 and tons of them are in what seems like almost a second teen phase. Marriages break and people start going out clubbing and getting drunk like 18 year olds. Some have babies when their older ones are in their early teens. Some change all their interests and hobbies and change their views. I am 34 and might still be too young to get it but if my friends can flip and change like that when they are 20 years older than most of the married Duggars, why would they be lost? Life does not end when you turn 25 or 35, you keep changing and developing. Yes, they may not change but giving up hope after only a couple years as adults is a bit harsh if you ask me.

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

22 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

I don't understand naked cakes. I thought the whole point of cake is the frosting!

My brother is a freak in that he hates frosting, he will scrape it off cake! He's been analyzed and we cannot pinpoint the disorder. I'm only joking but some people like plain cake. Others like the "unique" look of it. Personally I'm with you the point of cake is frosting unless it was an angel food cake/pound cake/lemon cake or something? I haven't seen a picture yet.

20 hours ago, Pandora Spocks said:

Ok, so love the dress, shoes, bridesmaids dresses. And yay -- they had cake!  But, in this picture, I can't help but thinking the brothers look like they are a modern day, quasi-lumberjack lollipop guild. 

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA "We represent the hay seed lumberjack lollipops" NIKE NIKE NIKE!! I mean Oxfords Oxfords Oxfords

[Casserole]

6 minutes ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

My brother is a freak in that he hates frosting, he will scrape it off cake! He's been analyzed and we cannot pinpoint the disorder. I'm only joking but some people like plain cake. Others like the "unique" look of it. Personally I'm with you the point of cake is frosting unless it was an angel food cake/pound cake/lemon cake or something? I haven't seen a picture yet.

Angel food cake and lemon pound cake are my two favorite cakes ever so maybe that explains my hatred of icing? 

[3KidsAndStopped]

All snark aside jingers dress is stunning, the girl has taste! From the pictures the one bridesmaid dress that stands out as "odd" is Jills it looks like Dame Edna Everidge purple it's far too bright. But I'm assuming she was Janas pair-there are two burgundy two reds two beige and then hannie jill jana and another one I don't know. It's like there was a mismatch do they buy their own  dresses?

Jana looks pretty. I feel so sorry for that girl.

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

18 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

Another suspicious timeline discrepancy in Jingermy's relationship: http://people.com/tv/jessa-seewald-played-matchmaker-for-jinger-duggar-jeremy-vuolo/. I'm starting to think the televised courtship proposal was staged and they had actually already been together for a couple of months secretly. That's probably why they aren't telling us when they actually started courting.

I have actually thought this from the beginning. All for the money and ratings!!! TLC could have had them postpone the wedding.

How would any of us feel to marry into a reality tv show? Just a second Im curious, remove all the quiverfull nonsense and just imagine being married into a reality tv show. That's so weird to me. 

[Coconut Flan]

31 minutes ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

All Christianity to an extent is fundie in term of patriarchy/modesty/pro life.

Thankfully that is not my experience.  Patriarchy is a specific view that basically ends up that women are less than men.  I've been to many churches where the word modesty was never even hinted at and people show up in beach wear and there are many churches who are not pro-life.  Now if we're going fundigelical, yes that applies to them.  Thankfully they are not the majority of Christians in the world just probably the loudest.

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

Jinger's hair I had to comment on for the entire season has looked awful! Her curls are so pretty she should embrace them! Anyhoo her hair is the result of a cheap straightener and cheap product build up. I have long hair as well and when I spray it or mousse it or gel it it's nearly impossible to get it out of the back of my head! Being naturally curly makes it hard to wash as well. Also if they are on their honeymoon and travelling she might be using cheap hotel shampoo which does no favors or maybe cheap shampoo in general because they're always looking to save a buck. This excessive straightening could be her rebelling from years of Gothard forcing them to curl it. 

 

Also why is she smiling so unnaturally in her wedding pictures? She usually smiles more naturally but in these pics she looks like she's gritting her teeth. 

17 minutes ago, Casserole said:

Angel food cake and lemon pound cake are my two favorite cakes ever so maybe that explains my hatred of icing? 

I love lemon pound cake because it is so moist. I took a cake decorating class long time ago and I'm so tired of regular cake because of being surrounded by it. Angel food I find to be a little bland....BUT have you tried the "fruit" cake, the cakes you can get at the grocery store that are yellow/white cake with fruit topping and a frosting make of whipped cream and cream cheese? My sister gets one for her birthday every year and it's much better than regular cake!!! I imagine Jinger's cake was this tasty!!!

[HarryPotterFan]

29 minutes ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

My brother is a freak in that he hates frosting, he will scrape it off cake! He's been analyzed and we cannot pinpoint the disorder. I'm only joking but some people like plain cake. Others like the "unique" look of it. Personally I'm with you the point of cake is frosting unless it was an angel food cake/pound cake/lemon cake or something? I haven't seen a picture yet.

I was the opposite as a kid, in elementary school when kids brought in cupcakes on their birthday I licked the frosting off.

[apandaaries]

7 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

Thankfully that is not my experience.  Patriarchy is a specific view that basically ends up that women are less than men.  I've been to many churches where the word modesty was never even hinted at and people show up in beach wear and there are many churches who are not pro-life.  Now if we're going fundigelical, yes that applies to them.  Thankfully they are not the majority of Christians in the world just probably the loudest.

I was coming here to post the very same thing.  There are LOTS of varieties of Christians, many of whom embrace equality for all, do not harp on endlessly (or ever) about modesty, and care more about the life of living woman over that of a fetus whose circumstances may not be compatible with life.  I also know of a number of Christian churches where gay and lesbian couples freely and peacefully worship.  There are a number of very liberal Christians out there, those who love and truly support others, work to promote peace, and provide charity to others even without cameras on them(!).  Whether or not the Duggars would call them Christian  is debatable (since they don't believe Catholics are the "right" kind of Christian), but I'm pretty sure what's in their hearts will count more than anything else.  

[socalrules]

34 minutes ago, elliha said:

I have been reading a lot about how some people say that there is no hope for Jinger now that she is married because neither Jill nor Jessa changed. Do you really realize just how young all of these people are? Not even Josh is 30 years old and 30 is still relatively young. Plenty of my friends are 40-45 and tons of them are in what seems like almost a second teen phase. Marriages break and people start going out clubbing and getting drunk like 18 year olds. Some have babies when their older ones are in their early teens. Some change all their interests and hobbies and change their views. I am 34 and might still be too young to get it but if my friends can flip and change like that when they are 20 years older than most of the married Duggars, why would they be lost? Life does not end when you turn 25 or 35, you keep changing and developing. Yes, they may not change but giving up hope after only a couple years as adults is a bit harsh if you ask me.

I agree people can change and there should always be hope in such change.  It becomes harder to change the path you are on when you are uneducated, have no work history and have 8 kids under 10. That's the problem. They can become stuck because it's easier to stay in the lifestyle if it keeps food on the table and a roof over their kids' heads. We all hope they change for the better but their current lifestyle makes it harder to make that change that comes easier to those of us on the other side. 

[Captain Obvious]

40 minutes ago, MyMilkshake said:

The naked cake is gorgeous!
 

Yeah it is, but there's no way it's feeding 1000 people, and besides we know that the guests actually ate cupcakes.

So it seems like that it probably was just for display (and presumably cutting by Jingermy), after which it was transported to the "real" reception at the TTH - or became Spud's birthday cake (use someone else's cake and save the difference!)

Otherwise, how to decide which guests get to have a piece?

 

 

[elliha]

3 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I agree people can change and there should always be hope in such change.  It becomes harder to change the path you are on when you are uneducated, have no work history and have 8 kids under 10. That's the problem. They can become stuck because it's easier to stay in the lifestyle if it keeps food on the table and a roof over their kids' heads. We all hope they change for the better but their current lifestyle makes it harder to make that change that comes easier to those of us on the other side. 

I am not saying that it is easy to change and of course it is harder with a bunch of kids. My point is that they have 50+ years of their lives left if they go on to live as long as most people. To believe that the possibility for change stops after a couple years of marriage and when a person is in their mid twenties is too simple and frankly underestimating them. I have not saying they have to change but they are barely adults and there is plenty of potential for growth.

[MyMilkshake]

I hope Jinger enjoys city life and it's what she hoped it would be. I hope with her living further away from the compound that she gets a chance to find some new interests and gets to  become her own authentic self instead of being stuck forever in the Duggar mold.
 

[DaniLouisiana]

I agree with those who are commenting on age and changing-my hubs is 56 and is Finally growing up. He has stopped for the most part having 2 yearold temper tantrums over little things like me bumping the trash can with his truck. There is hope that the girls will grow and change for the better. It might be after the parents have gone to their reward.

[apandaaries]

33 minutes ago, elliha said:

I am not saying that it is easy to change and of course it is harder with a bunch of kids. My point is that they have 50+ years of their lives left if they go on to live as long as most people. To believe that the possibility for change stops after a couple years of marriage and when a person is in their mid twenties is too simple and frankly underestimating them. I have not saying they have to change but they are barely adults and there is plenty of potential for growth.

While they do have potential for growth, that potential is severely hindered by the total mind control of their youthful years.  You can't forget that these kids and kidults were raised in a manner that strongly discouraged any independent thought or curiosity.  They were warned that the outside world was dangerous throughout ALL of their formative years.  Also, Arkansas is considerably different than Sweden, in numerous ways -- the acceptance of alcohol; the levels of education; the "sinfulness" of divorce/remarriage/out-of-wedlock children; the idea of "modesty" in a red state... Not only are we considering two incredibly different cultures, but to consider that they could easily break away also negates the hard-core training they endured as children.  It's not just their marriages and children that will trap them, but their own minds.  They don't even have secular therapy available to them -- it would be church counsel or nothing.

Anna is a good example of this, I think.  She has more reason than anyone else to leave, but she hasn't and I doubt she will.  She has a passel of children, very limited education, and a commitment to God and Joshua (to loosely quote her TH from whatever episode)...and she has her bills and housing paid for.  To leave, in these United States, would be an incredible logistical challenge, since her parents don't have enough money to support her and jobs that pay well typically go to those with education and experience, both of which she lacks.  She would be amply qualified to work in child care -- but she'd probably get minimum wage, and good luck surviving on that pittance.

Anna's family HAS had a few break-aways, though.  Her brother left, though he remains a conservative Christian.  Her youngest sister also left, under what was seen as more scandalous circumstances.  From what I can tell (limited, obviously, as this is a reality show), the younger Duggars have not had the kind of hard-hearted blanket training and soul-crushing upbringing.  I could see them forgiving anything Josie did, as the youngest of the brood and the one who survived a very short gestation period, followed by months in the NICU.  I have a little more hope for some of the younger ones, but even that is limited.  JB has hindered their intellectual development, education, and therefore work prospects.  He has created a brood of dependents -- good for his ego; terrible for his children.  

So beyond the typical problems of a mid-life crisis (kids to support, a marriage to stay faithful to, bills needing to be paid), I think they would also have to overcome severe brainwashing and actually create their own financial independence, both of which are significant hurdles.  Also, there are a lot of very significant cultural differences between those who grew up in conservative Arkansas v. those who were raised in fairly liberal Sweden.

 

ETA: I was trying to remember this quote and please forgive the Wiki citation, but remember the old Catholic saying, "Give me a child until he is 7 and I'll give you the man"?  Those early years of intellectual formation count for a LOT, and the Duggarlings will have a significant amount of training to overcome to ever hope for normal lives.

Wiki citation: https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ignatius_of_Loyola

[Fun Undies]

1 hour ago, HomeschooledHeartThrob said:

Well said! I have to wonder if they really do feel like they "aren't good enough for new stuff" I've recently found it's more ethical to buy used clothing after watching a documentary but that would make me sad if these girls didn't feel "worth" anything new.  I could see where the idea would come from. Wow the effect of their up bringing goes deeper and deeper. I pray Jeremy takes care of Jinger!!!

They can't because there is an odd number of colors....man those brown dresses look like mud. I think a blush pinky color would have looked better....or a champagne but that would have looked nude and god forbid NIKE

All Christianity to an extent is fundie in term of patriarchy/modesty/pro life. But the way he dresses, his mother and grandmother wearing pants, him not having 1000 siblings...I think he'll never be "as fundy" as the Duggars. I was raised fundy lite and have attended Methodist, Baptist, Evangelical Free, and Bretherin In Christ churches and they all touch on biblical gender roles/dressing modestly, ect. But the difference is it comes from a place of love (Jesus loves us we should accept His love and extend that to everyone) vs fear like in Quiverfull (Skirts or hell, your choice) I was taught not to put down my husband/call him names and not to let my boobs hang out. Of course I thought this meant anyone who assaulted me it would be my fault but after reading the bible on my own I'm figuring out that's not the case.

My mother's Roman Catholic, my dad southern Baptist.  I've been confirmed in a Methodist Church, and been to services of various non denomational ones, a seventh day adventist, and Lutheran.  I also attended a Presbyterian church for two years as a kid in Texas when my parents couldn't find a Catholic one they liked (went with my best friends family).  And I'm sure there's a few I'm forgetting.  

I think you're experience leans more to the Evangelical branch of Christianity, and at the end of the day, I think myself and others here just want to point out that doesn't represent all Christians.  We are such a varied religion at this point, that even attending a different church in the same denomination can have vastly different feels/beliefs to it.

Keep reading the Bible and if the words give you more comfort than anything else, like they do me, then yay!  If you study your faith more, and realize you don't get a inner peace from the religion, then don't let anybody make you feel bad for it.  

Feel free to PM me if you ever want to discuss the bible from a religious or secular level (i love studying it, but promise not to hit you upside the head with it)

 

^ don't have time to second read this, so pardon any errors or lack of clarity.  Toddlers are demanding sippy cups

[Bad Wolf]

My church (Episcopal) has a woman priest and does gay marriage. Sure, in the past it was patriarchal, but not any more

[Georgiana]

50 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yeah it is, but there's no way it's feeding 1000 people, and besides we know that the guests actually ate cupcakes.

So it seems like that it probably was just for display (and presumably cutting by Jingermy), after which it was transported to the "real" reception at the TTH - or became Spud's birthday cake (use someone else's cake and save the difference!)

Otherwise, how to decide which guests get to have a piece?

 

 

At least where I live, a LOT of weddings do the same thing: small cake for ceremony and cupcakes/another dessert for the guests.  

Saves on the cost of a wedding cake (which can be ridiculous), allows the bride/groom to express their personality better, and saves the time/hassle of cutting a cake for hundreds of people.  

I'm a big stickler on hospitality towards guests, but so long as you serve your guests SOMETHING, I don't think there is any necessity that you serve them specifically wedding cake.  

[VineHeart137]

55 minutes ago, Captain Obvious said:

Yeah it is, but there's no way it's feeding 1000 people, and besides we know that the guests actually ate cupcakes.

So it seems like that it probably was just for display (and presumably cutting by Jingermy), after which it was transported to the "real" reception at the TTH - or became Spud's birthday cake (use someone else's cake and save the difference!)

Otherwise, how to decide which guests get to have a piece?

 

 

At our wedding, we actually had a tiered display cake about the size of Jinger's cake, maybe a little smaller, for cutting and pictures, and then we had a sheet cake in the back to feed the excess. It was all the same flavor so it didn't make a difference whether a guest got a slice from the tiered cake or the sheet cake, but it was cheaper than getting a fancy cake that was big enough to feed all 100 guests.

Maybe the guests were allowed to choose between cupcakes and naked cake slices? Or yeah, maybe the naked cake went back to the TTH for those people.