BOOK REVIEW: "The Power of a Transformed Wife"

[polecat]

2 minutes ago, Evangeline said:

There's no way that's Lori writing those responses. They're far too coherent, and she actually makes a valid point or two. Can't believe I just said that. It's not Ken either, so I wonder who it is. 

 

The dear daughter-in-law who "edited" the book and posted one of the first reviews. I'd put money on it.

But "mischaracterizations" is one of Ken's favorite words.

 

That said, Lori, getting negative book reviews is HARDLY "suffering" for the sake of righteousness. If you think that's suffering, I hate to see the rude awakening you get when something truly traumatic happens to you. 

 

[molecule]

14 minutes ago, Evangeline said:

There's no way that's Lori writing those responses. They're far too coherent, and she actually makes a valid point or two. Can't believe I just said that. It's not Ken either, so I wonder who it is. 

Maybe she paid her editor to write it.

[FundieWatcher]

There are still only four verified purchases. So it is ok for all the five star reviews to be based off her blog writings but not the one star reviews. 

[Loveday]

I think the response is Ken's writing, with the daughter-in-law/editor spiffing it up a bit before posting. 

[AlwaysDiscerning]

It went from 32 to 31 reviews today. I wonder which one was deleted.

Also did you all see her new beefed up about the author section ? It mentions her trolls.

[FundieFarmer]

Okay.

So.

I've half a mind to buy this book and take it apart verse by verse. I didn't want to waste my money. But I have always wondered if Lori would take me more seriously if my obviously conservative theology came through when arguing with her, or if she'd think me a greater loss because of it.

Either way, I think it would be a very interesting theological exercise to find and reference biblical proof while dissecting the book...and a great faith builder as well for me, a woman in the conservative church. It would be an excellent opportunity to arm myself with verses to combat the misogyny that Lori so obviously parrots. (I don't allow it in my own social circles but do run into it occasionally! I have great arguments now- in thanks part to FJ- but strengthening them can't hurt!)

[FundieWatcher]

16 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

Also did you all see her new beefed up about the author section ? It mentions her trolls.

There are tens of us. There are suspose to be hundreds of people helped by her advice. I guess we shouldn't hold our breath for their testimony. 

 

7 minutes ago, FundieFarmer said:

 

Okay.

So.

I've half a mind to buy this book and take it apart verse by verse. I didn't want to waste my money. But I have always wondered if Lori would take me more seriously if my obviously conservative theology came through when arguing with her, or if she'd think me a greater loss because of it.

 

Could you buy it, read it and then return it? Only returning it if it doesn't deliver what is promised of course. Bad theology and harmful  advice  seem like good reasons to return a book. 

[molecule]

33 minutes ago, FundieFarmer said:

Okay.

So.

I've half a mind to buy this book and take it apart verse by verse. I didn't want to waste my money. But I have always wondered if Lori would take me more seriously if my obviously conservative theology came through when arguing with her, or if she'd think me a greater loss because of it.

Either way, I think it would be a very interesting theological exercise to find and reference biblical proof while dissecting the book...and a great faith builder as well for me, a woman in the conservative church. It would be an excellent opportunity to arm myself with verses to combat the misogyny that Lori so obviously parrots. (I don't allow it in my own social circles but do run into it occasionally! I have great arguments now- in thanks part to FJ- but strengthening them can't hurt!)

I've thought about doing this as well. I am in marriage ministry, and I often have women refer to Lori's blog like it's part of the canon.

I don't think the problem is necessarily in her basic instruction. Rather, my issue is with the "always" and "never" and "I speak for the God of the universe." Her absolutism, her lack of compassion, and her insistence that people who disagree with her interpretation cannot be godly Christians are more damaging than her basic ideas. Writing about an idea that others disagree with is no big deal. Her unloving approach to what she teaches is where she is spiritually abusive.

[FundieFarmer]

I've thought about doing this as well. I am in marriage ministry, and I often have women refer to Lori's blog like it's part of the canon.

I don't think the problem is necessarily in her basic instruction. Rather, my issue is with the "always" and "never" and "I speak for the God of the universe." Her absolutism, her lack of compassion, and her insistence that people who disagree with her interpretation cannot be godly Christians are more damaging than her basic ideas. Writing about an idea that others disagree with is no big deal. Her unloving approach to what she teaches is where she is spiritually abusive.

How do your group members typically hear of Lori? I didn't find out about her until I came here.

I'll say this (everyone please know it's packed with loads of caveats as molecule stated!): as a member of a conservative denomination, I can sometimes see where Lori is starting out with an argument. And then, it takes a nosedive so swiftly it's like the plane going down on Lost.

She doesn't understand that biblical submission works best/only in an ideal situation. It requires a LOT from the husband and the wife. For (an extremely simplified) example...a husband must love the wife as Christ loves the church. As Christ died for the church, the husband is to go into the marriage understanding that he is to make the greatest possible sacrifice for his wife. To have a love like that for another person is, as St. Paul says, the greatest love of all. A wife, therefore, would respect her husband, when his love is so great that he would do that for her. Would you not appreciate someone you know would die for you without question? That doesn't mean fighting over cheese whiz or selfishly taking out a diaphragm or the like. And sure, the Christian premise is that we are sinners and must work to become Christlike- certainly I sin ridiculously everyday- but issues fester about when couples don't set things aside, don't forgive, manipulate each other, etc.

Which sounds like Ken and Lori's situation? A Christlike picture of marriage looks nothing like what Lori describes her own marriage to have been/still be, so I don't understands how she can give advice. Even without the dangerous people she quotes, her own understanding is skewed. She has created an ideal situation for herself but comfortably twists the truth to make it appear as though she does not (see: lie about nanny, maid to make herself appear the hardworking, relatable martyr).

From my own conservative doctrinal perspective, and I don't know what Lori claims to be so I can't speak for whether this is what she "should" be claiming or not, a Christ-imitating marriage looks nothing like what Lori describes and her lessons can be manipulated-as we all know!- into a scene of abuse of power very quickly.

This is why I get so so angry with abusive teachers like Lori. They start out with misleading echoes of the Bible but the further down the echo chamber you fall, the more terrible and hurtful their lessons become if you're unable to spot the lies. It's part of the reason I love FJ- because of the awareness and the shared interest in exposing issues of faith whether or not exact perspectives are shared. And it's also why I'm probably going to buy the darn book to review it.

[emoji36]

Maybe I'll start a fundie book review blog.

[Koala]

She is coming undone in the Amazon reviews.  Someone left a review quoting something I posted yesterday by Lori:

Quote

Lori,

Something I read recently:

Feminine women shouldn't be ones who argue cases and debate others. If you watch the women who do this on television, it isn't feminine at all. It's women wanting to be like men. The Bible calls us to be peacemakers and to pursue peace with all men, not strive to be right and noticed.

You wrote the above paragraph, but from your comments here, you come off as very condescending, angry and just plain rude.

Lori replied:

Quote

The comment you refer to now is when I was teaching about female lawyers and those on news channels, not about trying to correct slander and lies about me on Amazon where my book is being sold.

Umm, nope.  Lori has written COUNTLESS posts about not arguing with others and letting them have the last word.  That particular posts mentions ABSOLUTELY NOTHING (as in, zip, zero, zilch) about female lawyers or news anchors.  She just made it up!  

Putting the link in a spoiler.  If she's going to edit it, I am not going to help her find it:

Spoiler

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2016/05/forcing-your-opinions-on-others.html

She even says:

Quote

I don't want to debate my husband or others in a way that tells them that I am right and they are wrong.

In another post she refers to a "soft" woman ( <---apparently godly women are "soft):

Quote

She doesn't argue her point over and over but allows the other person to have the last word. 

Quote

If she is treated poorly by others or left out, she doesn't have a pity party but uses this time to thank the Lord for all the good in her life. 

But I guess that all goes out the window when you're trying to sell a book.  Who has time for thanking the Lord when you've got to reply to so damn many negative Amazon reviews, amIright???

Finally, for as much whining as Lori has done about people "maligning" her, she is on FB (yet again) posting about Jesus Calling.  Good god, does she ever get bored of it?  

Lori:

Quote

Do you wonder why a book written by a woman who speaks as if she is Jesus, doesn't believe the Bible is sufficient, and "yearned for more" is so popular? Here's my opinion.

Heh!  Says who?  The woman who claims to speak for "The God of the Universe"?

 

Something to ponder.  Has Lori actually read this book?  She talks a lot about some of the people she fan girls reviewing it, but she never comes out and says that she's read the entire book herself.  Interesting.

One last side note- Lori has accused people of lying in the reviews, but when asked to point out what they lied about, Lori ignored them.

[molecule]

How do your group members typically hear of Lori? I didn't find out about her until I came here.

My ministry work happens online, and women find her through searching for help in improving their marriages or through her comments on other blogs (such as Peaceful Wife).

I'll say this (everyone please know it's packed with loads of caveats as molecule stated!): as a member of a conservative denomination, I can sometimes see where Lori is starting out with an argument. And then, it takes a nosedive so swiftly it's like the plane going down on Lost.

Yup. I'm more progressive than conservative in most respects, but some of what Lori says is grounded in what I see as biblical truth--but she reshapes it in a way that is all judgment and no grace, twisted from what I see as the scriptural message.

She doesn't understand that biblical submission works best/only in an ideal situation. It requires a LOT from the husband and the wife. For (an extremely simplified) example...a husband must love the wife as Christ loves the church. As Christ died for the church, the husband is to go into the marriage understanding that he is to make the greatest possible sacrifice for his wife. To have a love like that for another person is, as St. Paul says, the greatest love of all. A wife, therefore, would respect her husband, when his love is so great that he would do that for her.

Right. Both spouses have a responsibility, and it is something they should do when the other isn't deserving. I do understand why Lori talks so much about what wives should be doing. She is addressing women, and we can all change only ourselves. Christian marriage contains selflessness. Most Christian marriage bloggers take this same approach. But they have compassion and an ounce of common sense, and she doesn't. It makes a world of difference.

Maybe I'll start a fundie book review blog.

I'll read it.

[foreign fundie]

18 minutes ago, Koala said:

 

 

Lori says: "Read+listen to men who teach the whole truth."

So that leaves out women? In which case Lori can leave her computer and go back to the kitchen.

She also remarks that "The Bible never teaches about our feelings". 

No idea which Bible she reads. The Bible is a book about God and people and feelings are everywhere. The Psalms anyone? The letters of Paul? John's pastoral epistels? And al the prophets full of rage, worry, pain, hope, dispair, longing? Lamentations? Song of songs? DID YOU EVER READ THE BIBLE EXCEPT TITUS 2?

Sorry for the caps. This crap gets on my nerves.

[FundieFarmer]

Lori says: "Read+listen to men who teach the whole truth."
So that leaves out women? In which case Lori can leave her computer and go back to the kitchen.
She also remarks that "The Bible never teaches about our feelings". 
No idea which Bible she reads. The Bible is a book about God and people and feelings are everywhere. The Psalms anyone? The letters of Paul? John's pastoral epistels? And al the prophets full of rage, worry, pain, hope, dispair, longing? Lamentations? Song of songs? DID YOU EVER READ THE BIBLE EXCEPT TITUS 2?
Sorry for the caps. This crap gets on my nerves.

Bahaha, I love this. THE BIBLE IS FULL OF FEELZ, LORI.

Molecule, I'd love to follow your online ministry if you'd be comfortable sharing it with me via PM! If not I totally understand, but I loved what you said.

[polecat]

I hate the phrase "tickle their ears."

Quote

Lori Alexander’s writings have reached over 22 million in one post as they are championed by the conservative Christian and much maligned and attacked by those who hate the idea of a wife’s willing submission to her husband or disciplining a defiant child. It is Lori’s plain talking, practical approach that takes God at His Word on marriage and family that has many Christians asking why their pastors are no longer teaching these things. It also is causing fireworks in cyberspace as her trolls dog her wherever they can to give a contrary opinion or malicious word.

 

Did she mention the time she went viral? Pretty sure people don't care about willing submission or disciplining a child -- pretty sure the issue is ABUSE. Big huge freaking difference here. Fireworks in cyberspace? Get over yourself. People are making sure others are fully aware of what you are and what you teach. 

 

[foreign fundie]

"Lori Alexander’s writings have reached over 22 million in one post"

Wonder how many people the Trump tapes have 'reached'. Numbers don't equal positive impact or agreement!

[mango_fandango]

Oh my God, she went viral??  Seriously, no1curr, Lori. 

[Koala]

Bless them.  That's their way of telling us that Lori is one of those big deal women teachers/book writers she warned us about.  

Why with all of the blogging, book writing, and babysitting Amazon reviews, she probably doesn't even have the time to force Ken to eat her big nourishing salads.

[formergothardite]

12 hours ago, FundieFarmer said:

She doesn't understand that biblical submission works best/only in an ideal situation. It requires a LOT from the husband and the wife. For (an extremely simplified) example...a husband must love the wife as Christ loves the church. As Christ died for the church, the husband is to go into the marriage understanding that he is to make the greatest possible sacrifice for his wife. To have a love like that for another person is, as St. Paul says, the greatest love of all. A wife, therefore, would respect her husband, when his love is so great that he would do that for her. Would you not appreciate someone you know would die for you without question? That doesn't mean fighting over cheese whiz or selfishly taking out a diaphragm or the like. And sure, the Christian premise is that we are sinners and must work to become Christlike- certainly I sin ridiculously everyday- but issues fester about when couples don't set things aside, don't forgive, manipulate each other, etc.

Lori really doesn't seem capable of grasping that what worked for her(and it didn't seem to work that well) won't always work for everyone. There are plenty of situations where her advice would cause massive failure. But she can't accept that. She has to be right every single time because she views herself as a min-god. 

As for the bolded, this is thrown around a great deal by lots of fundie husbands, including Ken. But if a man isn't willing to help out around the house, give up basketball(Ken I'm looking at YOU) or treat a woman how she wants to be treated, then he isn't really willing to die for her. It is easy to claim that you would die for someone when the risk of having to do so is extremely low. It is harder to live each day in an unselfish way, which is IMO, what that verse actually meant. 

[jerkit]

I removed my book review - I am the reason it went from 32 to 31.

I'm throwing in the towel. I cannot subject myself to her any more. I quit Lori Alexander. She has not a shred of compassion for anyone, but especially someone she has hurt so deeply. The fact that someone said "Lori, you hurt me and these are the reasons" - and I did not attack *her* in any way - and she reposed with some of the meanest comments I have ever read ("If you were really a Christian woman...") I can't. I'm done. I relent. You win, Lori. You win. You can have the last word.

[CTRLZero]

I read Lori's blurb about her post (or was it spam) reaching 22 million, plus the thousands that read her blog daily, but I don't know how to find out how that translates to actual sales of her book.  Does it say how many copies have sold somewhere on Amazon?  Just curious.  I assume it must be in the teens thousands by now.
 

Quote

 

Lori and Ken have always lived together in a very normal Christian family and marriage.

 

Sad commentary, since she dredges up so much material for her blog from an unhappy past. 

[Koala]

11 minutes ago, jerkit said:

I removed my book review - I am the reason it went from 32 to 31.

I'm throwing in the towel. I cannot subject myself to her any more. I quit Lori Alexander. She has not a shred of compassion for anyone, but especially someone she has hurt so deeply. The fact that someone said "Lori, you hurt me and these are the reasons" - and I did not attack *her* in any way - and she reposed with some of the meanest comments I have ever read ("If you were really a Christian woman...") I can't. I'm done. I relent. You win, Lori. You win. You can have the last word.

Please don't feel bad about deleting your comment.  It sounds like you've had a time of it, and you absolutely shouldn't make yourself miserable on her behalf.  She is truly one of the meanest, cruelest people I've encountered.  Don't let her get to you, and don't let her make you question yourself.  And for sure don't worry about deleting your review 

[slickcat79]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

As for the bolded, this is thrown around a great deal by lots of fundie husbands, including Ken. But if a man isn't willing to help out around the house, give up basketball(Ken I'm looking at YOU) or treat a woman how she wants to be treated, then he isn't really willing to die for her. It is easy to claim that you would die for someone when the risk of having to do so is extremely low. It is harder to live each day in an unselfish way, which is IMO, what that verse actually meant. 

QFT. I freaking hate that whole set of verses. It's so easy for a husband to say, sure, I'd totally die for my wife (and the opportunity to prove that never comes up), when the wife has to "submit" every damn day. The instruction is for husbands to love their wives, and wives to respect their husbands. One of those things is not like the other. 

[molecule]

1 Peter 3:7 tells husbands to give their wives honor and to live with them in an understanding way. That is a daily challenge--at least it is in my marriage, since understanding me is an on-gong process.

[FundieFarmer]

I think the big picture– that you'd die for your wife– means that the little picture (helping with laundry, the little things) would go along with it. And that's where we get into the issues of abuse within the church...the places where the patriarchy makes it great for the man and sucky for the woman. When the man touts his willingness to die for the woman as an excuse not to do anything else, he's missed the point. 

Plus... Lori had this weird thing going into her marriage of, "I married him because #transaction and #parenting but not much else." That's kind of a recipe for disaster even without the submission dynamic. It seems to me that with that aspect, so many of these fundie couples who wind up with nothing going on between them but blind submission and overlording. I think when you have the chance to have opinions and actually be a human and enough time to choose your mate with a good partnership, it works out a lot differently in practice. That's what I've seen in my experience, at least.

FTR, I'm not advocating this marriage dynamic for everyone. Long hair don't care if you do practice it or don't. Just saying I've seen it work under the right circumstances...and it's not the circus Lori's lived or says it has to be in order to work. 

[quiversR4hunting]

@FundieFarmer as you were talking about Lori picking her spouse it reminded me of the NPR segment I heard today.

http://thedianerehmshow.org/shows/2016-10-17/how-we-choose-our-spouses

Interesting listen!