Bill Gothard, God, and sexual molestation

[NeverAFundie]

4 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Unless G3 has a professional death wish, there is NO way that he engaged in the convoluted, double-representations described by Alfred. As Palimpsest said above, if GIII actually did that, he'd be disbarred ASAP and would probably not be able to practice law again in any US jurisdiction. 

ETA: IANAL but would love for a qualified attorney to weigh in here!

Agreed.  I don't practice law anymore, but GIII is certainly representing these plaintiffs on a contingency fee basis.  He's a Duke law school graduate, which means he's no dummy.  I think it's basically impossible he had these conversations, because he would not want to jeopardize his status as plaintiffs' lawyer.  He's not getting paid by the hour for what he's doing.  He has to wait for a settlement or trial award before he'll get paid.  I'm not sure the alleged conversations would be enough to disbar him--those things vary widely from state to state.  And the wheels of lawyer justice turn very slowly.  But you better believe a judge could kick him off the case in heartbeat for something like this.

[grandmadugger]

Gothard is sounding more and more like Fred Phelps everyday.  Fred, at one time, was a very respected civil rights attorney.  So he's out there fighting for equality.  I suspect that Gothard truly did want to help those troubled youth he started out working with, he wanted to help better their lives.  At some point they both snapped, turned a blind eye to their old ways.  

I can see G3 going to Gothard and saying, "We need to depose you." and Billy boy saying, "I'll tell you everything, I have nothing to hide.  Here it all is."  If Billy boy handed it over freely because, in his mind, he thought it would restore him to power, what's G3 supposed to other than put it into evidence. 

[Tdoc72]

6 hours ago, grandmadugger said:

Gothard is sounding more and more like Fred Phelps everyday.  Fred, at one time, was a very respected civil rights attorney.  So he's out there fighting for equality.  I suspect that Gothard truly did want to help those troubled youth he started out working with, he wanted to help better their lives.  At some point they both snapped, turned a blind eye to their old ways.  

I can see G3 going to Gothard and saying, "We need to depose you." and Billy boy saying, "I'll tell you everything, I have nothing to hide.  Here it all is."  If Billy boy handed it over freely because, in his mind, he thought it would restore him to power, what's G3 supposed to other than put it into evidence. 

Thanks for calling him G3.  Everytime I see GIII, it looks like Gill as in Gill Bates and confuses me.

[sawasdee]

If G3 went to depose Gothard, wouldn't there have been a stenographer present? In other words, a third party who can attest to what was actually said? Of course, if it were a female stenographer, she wouldn't count in Bill's mind as a real person, that could, you know, give evidence.

[formergothardite]

I love that the Larne guy used Bible verses to essentially say "Go to hell Gothard."  Alfred was not amused. 

[apple1]

41 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I love that the Larne guy used Bible verses to essentially say "Go to hell Gothard."  Alfred was not amused. 

Larne has a very effective manner of presenting himself and his evidence. And I suppose (this is based on my semi-following Larne's RG postings) having stood up directly to Gothard a very long time ago puts him in the not-intimidated category.

Where did you read this? On Alfred's site? (I haven't done any reading there -- not sure my blood pressure could take that much of Alfred...)

[formergothardite]

It is on the DG site.

Larne  share somes verses about how deceitful hypocrites condemn themselves to hell.  Alfred warned him about using biblical curses. 

Alfred keeps saying he is getting clarification on various issues, but then never does. Like the thing about the church. Gothard claimed that he was a member of a church and attended regularly, the pastor and other members say that isn't true. Alfred went to get clarification, but never follows up on what he found out. There is some story about a woman who has proof that Gothard didn't do these things, but then he never could get in contact with her. He was supposed to have looked at the papers Gothard had that prove G3 did the things Gothard claims, but he hasn't mentioned them again, he keeps bringing up that same article that doesn't prove anything. Some part of him has to realize that this isn't normal. 

[apple1]

18 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

It is on the DG site.

Larne  share somes verses about how deceitful hypocrites condemn themselves to hell.  Alfred warned him about using biblical curses. 

Alfred keeps saying he is getting clarification on various issues, but then never does. Like the thing about the church. Gothard claimed that he was a member of a church and attended regularly, the pastor and other members say that isn't true. Alfred went to get clarification, but never follows up on what he found out. There is some story about a woman who has proof that Gothard didn't do these things, but then he never could get in contact with her. He was supposed to have looked at the papers Gothard had that prove G3 did the things Gothard claims, but he hasn't mentioned them again, he keeps bringing up that same article that doesn't prove anything. Some part of him has to realize that this isn't normal. 

... or else he is even more delusional than he appears. Who knows. There is clearly some major disconnect.

[grandmadugger]

4 hours ago, sawasdee said:

If G3 went to depose Gothard, wouldn't there have been a stenographer present? In other words, a third party who can attest to what was actually said? Of course, if it were a female stenographer, she wouldn't count in Bill's mind as a real person, that could, you know, give evidence.

My gut says Gothard was never truly disposed.  He was probably contacted about it and then wrote out the confession.  He's went so far off the deep end he sees nothing wrong with what he's done so why would he need legal council. 

[ShepherdontheRock]

37 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

My gut says Gothard was never truly disposed.  He was probably contacted about it and then wrote out the confession.  He's went so far off the deep end he sees nothing wrong with what he's done so why would he need legal council. 

I mean, I guess maybe he's convinced himself that the will of God will enable him to win...

[grandmadugger]

27 minutes ago, ShepherdontheRock said:

I mean, I guess maybe he's convinced himself that the will of God will enable him to win...

I think he has.  Nothing I've seen shows that he believes anything different.

[Whoosh]

13 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

I think he has.  Nothing I've seen shows that he believes anything different.

This.  To me, his stuff read like he views himself as some kindly, benevolent guider of the lost in all this... still.  Like his taking pen to paper to acknowledge the lawsuit is some kind of gift he is bestowing.  I just don't understand it.

[Sister Mozz]

4 hours ago, formergothardite said:

It is on the DG site.

Larne  share somes verses about how deceitful hypocrites condemn themselves to hell.  Alfred warned him about using biblical curses. 

Alfred keeps saying he is getting clarification on various issues, but then never does. Like the thing about the church. Gothard claimed that he was a member of a church and attended regularly, the pastor and other members say that isn't true. Alfred went to get clarification, but never follows up on what he found out. There is some story about a woman who has proof that Gothard didn't do these things, but then he never could get in contact with her. He was supposed to have looked at the papers Gothard had that prove G3 did the things Gothard claims, but he hasn't mentioned them again, he keeps bringing up that same article that doesn't prove anything. Some part of him has to realize that this isn't normal. 

Regarding the bolded, do you have the link handy? That conversation was mentioned last week and I went looking for it, because I like reading things like that, but I couldn't find it.

[formergothardite]

28 minutes ago, Sister Mozz said:

Regarding the bolded, do you have the link handy? That conversation was mentioned last week and I went looking for it, because I like reading things like that, but I couldn't find it.

I will search for it on DG. I can't remember which post it was under. I did find another conversation on there that brings up something I didn't know(or if I did know I had forgotten). Gothard has recently had THREE accountability partners. Two quit because they said Gothard was unreasonable. One wrote a letter saying Gothard was fine.

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-122 

And here is another comment where Alfred admits that some of the people who help run the site don't want people to know their names. So it is okay for them to be anonymous, but not okay for anyone who criticizes Bill to do that.

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-71

[meda]

Finally made it through this. I am also of the camp that says G3 isn't that stupid, and I doubt there was an actual "deposition". I do not practice in Illinois, but in my world, a deposition is a question and answer session that includes an oath, a transcript, the ability for all parties and/or their counsel to be present, and a subpoena or two. 

[formergothardite]

Quote

 

Battery . . . misdemeanor, which involves delivering a knowing or intentional but improper touch — for example, purposely poking a victim in the eye.”

This sounds like a playground infraction,

 

Alfred is one really disturbed person. 

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-1653

And here is the conversation about the church:

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-1653

I see now that Alfred "clarifies" that Bill tried to join the church but the church hasn't approved his membership. Which is prettty strange if the pastor really did say that Bill should be put back in charge of IBLP. Pretty sure this was discussed on RG too and the church isn't backing up Gothard's claims. 

[Sister Mozz]

5 hours ago, formergothardite said:

Alfred is one really disturbed person. 

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-1653

And here is the conversation about the church:

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-1653

I see now that Alfred "clarifies" that Bill tried to join the church but the church hasn't approved his membership. Which is prettty strange if the pastor really did say that Bill should be put back in charge of IBLP. Pretty sure this was discussed on RG too and the church isn't backing up Gothard's claims. 

Thank you! That comment thread is extremely interesting. I especially like the part where Alfred pretty much claims that BG doesn't need to be under an Umbrella of Authority and even questions whether the "Umbrella of Authority" is a biblical term. Only when it applies to good old Bill, of course. Because you know everyone else must be under authority or else smitten with calamities beyond speaking.

[formergothardite]

I feel like we are watching Alfred spiral down into total insanity. He is now questioining if people would report assault and battery. He seems to feel like most people wouldn't. And he compares to not reporting child abuse to someone driving over the speed limit. 

Gothard has assured him that Jane Doe II was not American so Alfred feels that the mandatory reporting laws probably didn't apply. He also claims that he contacted the police and they investigated and found there was no abuse.  And that he called the father, let him know and the father called up the police in his country to have them investigate just to show that this was all lies from a "troubled" teen girl. 

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-1974

[Sister Mozz]

43 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I feel like we are watching Alfred spiral down into total insanity. He is now questioining if people would report assault and battery. He seems to feel like most people wouldn't. And he compares to not reporting child abuse to someone driving over the speed limit. 

Gothard has assured him that Jane Doe II was not American so Alfred feels that the mandatory reporting laws probably didn't apply. He also claims that he contacted the police and they investigated and found there was no abuse.  And that he called the father, let him know and the father called up the police in his country to have them investigate just to show that this was all lies from a "troubled" teen girl. 

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/questions/#comment-1974

What the actual what. The endless loopholes that exist for Gothard...

[formergothardite]

If Bill's story is true and he contacted the police to investigate abuse accusations, shouldn't he be able to prove that fairly easily? 

[grandmadugger]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

If Bill's story is true and he contacted the police to investigate abuse accusations, shouldn't he be able to prove that fairly easily? 

You would think he would produce the police report.

[formergothardite]

I know that the situation involved a minor, but in a lawsuit like this, it just seems to me that a police report would be fairly easy to obtain. Wouldn't have G3 looked into something like that too before adding her to the lawsuit? 

[DaisyD]

If I'm reading the conversation correctly the father in Australia is the one who supposedly involved the authorities. So not only did Gothard not call the police the whole thing apparently went down in another country. 

[formergothardite]

No, he is saying that Bill did contact the authorities:

Quote

Local authorities were most definitely contacted, and an investigation was conducted

Quote

 Bill should – and did – report it.

Quote

with respect to legal requirements of “mandatory reporting laws”. Which were actually followed, regardless.

He then says that on top of that the father contacted the authorities in his country. So two countries supposedly investigated this. Of course, we only have Bill's word on this and he isn't exactly the most trustworthy soul around. 

[DaisyD]

Got it. I missed that part.