Bill Gothard, God, and sexual molestation

[lilwriter85]

15 minutes ago, apple1 said:

He dropped out of HAC.

True. But I still give him credit for attempting to go through various education and steps before he started FWBC.

[gustava]

8 hours ago, HighlandCow said:

A question for lawyerly types and possibly accountants:

If home-churches are have tax-exempt status, would that not make the headship of the house/church a mandatory reporter? I know things get tricky with homeschooling and parental rights but if the headship is getting tax-exemption from the government for being 'clergy' , does that not come with an obligation to not break the law?

Good question.

 

[Coconut Flan]

So far I haven't found a home church that was tax exempt.  They tend to be run by the we don't government in our lives types who don't file paperwork to become an actual church.

Not a lawyer or an accountant just like checking out their stories.

[HighlandCow]

7 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

So far I haven't found a home church that was tax exempt.  They tend to be run by the we don't government in our lives types who don't file paperwork to become an actual church.

Not a lawyer or an accountant just like checking out their stories.

My anecdotal understanding is that Jim Bob at least had made one of their properties tax-exempt because of Jesus. With assets worth millions I would be shocked if IBLP/ATI were not considered either churches or educational institutions for tax reasons.

I really don't know though, that's why I'm asking. 

[Coconut Flan]

That's just an persistent internet rumor that we can't kill.  People have been checking the property records for years and all properties listed show taxes just like everyone else. 

[Palimpsest]

Copying from another thread so I can find it again - and it is more relevant here:

The full list of IBLP board members in early 2014.   These are the guys named in the lawsuit.

http://heresyintheheartland.blogspot.com/2014/02/who-is-institute-in-basic-life.html

Quote

 

Who IS the Institute in Basic Life Principles?

According to a post on WORLDmag.com, Bible teacher and homeschool program founder Bill Gothard has been put on administrative leave by his board of directors whilenumerous reports of nonconsensual sexual contact, some perpetrated on minors, are investigated. 

In light of that interesting fact, I am trying to make some sense of the dense thicket that is currently the Institute in Basic Life Principles. Besides Gothard himself, who is the Institute?
 

* * * * *

UPDATE 6/18/14: Ralph Hudgens is no longer listed on the IBLP website as a member of the board.

UPDATE: Billy Boring and Bernie Reese resigned from the board early in March 2014

John Stancil is a member of the IBLP board, and also chairman of the board for Crown College in Tennessee where Erin (Bates) Paine is a student. A former director at Sword of the Lord forced out after a scandal, Stancil now owns a transportation company near Nashville.

Dr. Stephen Paine did research for Gothard's book How to Resolve Seven Deadly Stresses, which "offers Biblical insight on tracing disease and health problems to five basic factors—what you think, say, do, eat, and inherit." Paine worked at Gothard's centers in Indianapolis and Oak Brook, but is currentlypracticing medicine at a prison in Cushing, Oklahoma. 

Paine's son Nate conducts IBLP seminars for prisoners through the Florida Department of Corrections*. His children Tabitha and Thomas were working at IBLP Headquarters last year. Paine's son Chad married Erin Bates. Erin is enrolled in Crown College.

Gil Bates is on the IBLP board. His family has been featured on the Duggars' television show. Bates' daughter Erin is married to Stephen Paine's son and is currently a student at Crown College. Alyssa Bates is engaged to John Webster, son of Congressman (and long-time Gothard follower) Daniel Webster.

The rest of the IBLP board members, according to the IBLP website, are:
 

Dr. Billy Boring, a physician in McKinney, Texas (chairman of the board).

Ralph Hudgens, Commissioner of Insurance for the State of Georgia.

Bernie Reese, Sr., a lawyer in Rockford, Illinois.

David York, a pastor in Greenfield, WI.

Anthony Burrus of Waco, TX.  

* * * * *

Dwight Fredrickson is IBLP's Chief Financial Officer. His wife is Bill Gothard's niece and his daughter is engaged to marry Jordan Webster, another son of the Florida Congressman, next month. 

Robert Barth is General Counsel for IBLP (also their donor contact) and is also on the faculty of Oak Brook College of Law, the unaccredited correspondence law school IBLP established in California in 1995. Barth has ten children.

George Mattix is IBLP's executive international director. Two weeks ago, he told The Christian Post that the board "would prayerfully consider what course of action members would take before releasing any public statements."  

These men, and a few others, have represented the Institute for decades or more. Board members come and go, but these directors have been loyal to Gothard through thick and thin.

The question now is Why? 

And can they extricate themselves from their leader's downfall without losing their own integrity?

 

Updating that - Stancil has also resigned. When?

So, as of today, we are now down to 4 on the BoD: York, Paine, Bates, and Levendusky as Interim president.  Levendusky is a new member as of 2014 (he's worked for IBLP since the 80s) and was appointed Interim President after they ousted Gothard.   These people are all really hard-core IBLP followers.

[iweartanktops]

Thank you @Palimpsest. 

So Alyssa is now, or soon-to-be related to Gothard by marriage? Very interesting. 

[picklepizzas]

On 4/11/2016 at 7:52 AM, Palimpsest said:

Robert Barth is General Counsel for IBLP (also their donor contact) and is also on the faculty of Oak Brook College of Law, the unaccredited correspondence law school IBLP established in California in 1995. Barth has ten children.

what would even be the point of an unaccredited law school? what could you possibly do with that degree? 

[Palimpsest]

55 minutes ago, picklepizzas said:

what would even be the point of an unaccredited law school? what could you possibly do with that degree? 

The Oak Brook crowd wave their unaccredited law school diplomas in many faces.

To do them justice,   CA lets online "JD "  only take the bar exam.  Apparently a fair amount of Oakbrook people pass.  They don't necessarily practice in CA.

IMO, CA regs need reform.

[DaisyD]

18 hours ago, picklepizzas said:

what would even be the point of an unaccredited law school? what could you possibly do with that degree? 

Advise people that it's totally not sexual harassment to play footsie with teenaged girls?

[hoipolloi]

17 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

The Oak Brook crowd wave their unaccredited law school diplomas in many faces.

To do them justice,   CA lets online "JD "  only take the bar exam.  Apparently a fair amount of Oakbrook people pass.  They don't necessarily practice in CA.

IMO, CA regs need reform.

Well, the CA bar canʻt be that easy since Oak Brook alumnus Nathaniel Darnell took it at least twice and failed. 

[Coconut Flan]

The California bar is not easy and many, many people with good grades from accredited schools do not pass.  Oak Brook is not the only unaccredited law school in the state.  Why the state allows them is anyone's guess.

[hoipolloi]

14 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

The California bar is not easy and many, many people with good grades from accredited schools do not pass.  Oak Brook is not the only unaccredited law school in the state.  Why the state allows them is anyone's guess.

Re: bolded. This is the real question -- why would ANY jurisdiction recognize "graduates" of an unaccredited law school as being eligible for sitting for the bar exam?

[Cleopatra7]

13 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Re: bolded. This is the real question -- why would ANY jurisdiction recognize "graduates" of an unaccredited law school as being eligible for sitting for the bar exam?

Given the atrocious writing I've seen on ATI/IBLP websites and blogs, I don't think Oak Brook graduates are qualified to defend anyone at a middle school student court. Besides, aren't believers supposed to stay away from secular courts? Why is Oak Brook even necessary when ATI members are supposed to settle their problems within the church?

[uber frau]

Same reason as why Doug Phillips Esq. (&Tool extraordinaire) is allowed to slap anyone he doesn't like with a lawsuit while insisting the plebs to follow the Matthew 18 model for dispute resolution.

[Palimpsest]

18 hours ago, hoipolloi said:

Well, the CA bar canʻt be that easy since Oak Brook alumnus Nathaniel Darnell took it at least twice and failed. 

As Natty D seems to believe that brains are located in the penis I'm surprised he passed it at all!

He seems to be using his lawyer creds to further a political career anyway.  AFAIK, he doesn't practice law.

14 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

The California bar is not easy and many, many people with good grades from accredited schools do not pass.  Oak Brook is not the only unaccredited law school in the state.  Why the state allows them is anyone's guess.

I'm sure it is as hard as any other state Bar exam if not harder because of the unaccredited law schools.  I don't know of any other state that accepts online or unaccredited law school degrees and lets people take the bar.  I may be wrong.

[acheronbeach]

It's my understanding that if you took out unaccredited applicants' results,  the pass rate in California is equal to many other states.  Any rando can take the bar in CA - lots of Canadian lawyers break into the US market by getting called in California. 

[Palimpsest]

But passing the CA Bar still means that you can only practice law in CA.  Or am I wrong about that?

[Coconut Flan]

2 hours ago, acheronbeach said:

It's my understanding that if you took out unaccredited applicants' results,  the pass rate in California is equal to many other states.  Any rando can take the bar in CA - lots of Canadian lawyers break into the US market by getting called in California. 

The last time I looked that wasn't the case, but I haven't looked recently.  All the relevant numbers are on the Cal Bar webpages so anyone can do the math.

 

[DaisyD]

As far as I remember from my sister taking the bar, there were some graduates that were strategic in where they took the bar based on the ease of the test. She took it in VA and her first job was in Ohio, but it was a federal job, so the where may not matter for that. She can help me with Az stuff (interpret the legal speak for me), but she can't practice here. I don't know if that's Az rules or if that's the case nation wide. 

[refugee]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

But passing the CA Bar still means that you can only practice law in CA.  Or am I wrong about that?

I'm a little fuzzy on this, as we've been out of that crowd for a couple years (and growing) but Oak Brook was touted as the route for homeschoolers (read "young men") to become lawyers. It was one of the few routes to a professional career open to the no-college, no-government-loans people.

Then the student could take the CA bar exam, and if they passed, I think other state bars (maybe not all, maybe specific states) were then open to them. I could be wrong on the specifics, but I remember enough of what I heard to think of the CA bar exam as a sort of gateway to the legal world.

I remember hearing this from a VF dad who had a son pursuing this route. I have no idea if it came to pass, though.

[Palimpsest]

@refugee - you are quite correct. At least, if this link is up to date. 

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/application-prep/deciding-whether-to-attend-an-unaccredited-law-school

This bit applies to my state but others are less strict:

Quote

Some jurisdictions will allow a person from a non-ABA law school who has practiced law in good standing in another jurisdiction for a certain amount of time to be admitted to the bar on motion. This procedure requires a member-lawyer of that particular State’s bar to sponsor you.

I'm disappointed.

[formergothardite]

Alfred has a new post up defending the Gothard playing footsie with the teen girls on his staff. It is just a little innocent quirk that is harmless and RG is ebil to twist it into something bad.  He blames RG for scaring some of the board members and driving a wedge between them and Gothard. 

http://www.discoveringgrace.com/2016/04/14/minor-feet/

What Alfred leaves out is that the abuse brought up isn't just playing footsie. I suspect the BoD quickly realized that Gothard was a huge liability that they couldn't control and they jumped at a chance to rid themselves of him. 

[DaisyD]

This guy is a weapons grade douche.

[snarkopolis]

3 hours ago, refugee said:

I'm a little fuzzy on this, as we've been out of that crowd for a couple years (and growing) but Oak Brook was touted as the route for homeschoolers (read "young men") to become lawyers. It was one of the few routes to a professional career open to the no-college, no-government-loans people.

Then the student could take the CA bar exam, and if they passed, I think other state bars (maybe not all, maybe specific states) were then open to them. I could be wrong on the specifics, but I remember enough of what I heard to think of the CA bar exam as a sort of gateway to the legal world.

I remember hearing this from a VF dad who had a son pursuing this route. I have no idea if it came to pass, though.

Each state has its' own rules regarding reciprocity. My state doesn't allow you to practice unless you take their exam. Some states (NH, VT, MASS ex) have reciprocity between themselves. Others require you to have actively practiced for a certain length of time. And you still have to pass the character assessment part.