Bill Gothard, God, and sexual molestation

[formergothardite]

48 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I predict the board will throw Gothard under the bus now push has come to shove.

@formergothardite do you know whether people were complaining directly to individual board members or just writing letters to the board as a whole.  Some letters to the board could be shuffled into hiding by subordinates  IYKWIM.  I was wondering about the levels of deniability that were set up at IBLP.  (I read the whole of Cardinal Bernard Law's deposition in the early 2000s for my sins.  The weaseling around about "but I never saw that letter 'cos it went to that other office" was unbelievable.)

If individual board members were approached personally with complaints and only hand slapped BG I sincerely hope their feet are held to the fire.

I can't say 100% for sure, but my understanding is that people complained to actual board members.  

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I can't say 100% for sure, but my understanding is that people complained to actual board members.  

That stinks.  If so, the individual board members should be held liable.

[RosyDaisy]

Gothard will not go down without a fight. When he does go downhe will take the BoD, his political connections, and some of the high profile families with him. This ain't gonna be pretty

Also having Gibbs, Jr representing Gothard/BoD and Gibbs III representing the plantifs sounds highly unethical (even if they are on the outs). I smell a rat.

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, RosyDaisy said:

Gothard will not go down without a fight. When he does go downhe will take the BoD, his political connections, and some of the high profile families with him. This ain't gonna be pretty

Also having Gibbs, Jr representing Gothard/BoD and Gibbs III representing the plantifs sounds highly unethical (even if they are on the outs). I smell a rat.

I hope Gothard will bring the BoD down with him. Then TLC can have a new special serious about fundamentalism in America.

Seriously TLC  we are handing you topics on a silver platter!

[gustava]

3 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

If individual board members were approached personally with complaints and only hand slapped BG I sincerely hope their feet  gonads   are held to the fire.

just sayin'.....

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, RosyDaisy said:

Gothard will not go down without a fight. When he does go downhe will take the BoD, his political connections, and some of the high profile families with him. This ain't gonna be pretty

Also having Gibbs, Jr representing Gothard/BoD and Gibbs III representing the plantifs sounds highly unethical (even if they are on the outs). I smell a rat.

Actually Gibbs, Jr. isn't representing BG or the BoD although he is in this up to his neck and will probably be called as a witness.  I apologize for the misunderstanding because I wrote something carelessly above that gave that impression and then tried to clarify.  Perhaps not enough.

Trying again:  Gibbs, Jr. was the "Independent Investigator" brought in by IBLP when RG first published the story.  Everyone smelled a rat over that because Gibbs, Jr./CLA has ties with IBLP and is widely perceived to be biased.  Gibbs, Jr.'s (allegedly) biased and inadequate "Investigation" into the RG victim's allegations is part of the lawsuit.

FYI, Julie Anne over at SSB has a screen shot of a statement by IBLP that is worth looking at.  She calls it a  faux pas.  I think it comes into unforced error territory!  http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/12/23/while-the-board-of-bill-gothards-former-ministry-iblp-claims-judge-dismissed-lawsuit-attorney-for-plaintiffs-says-four-new-plaintiffs-have-come-forward/

[apple1]

7 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Actually Gibbs, Jr. isn't representing BG or the BoD although he is in this up to his neck and will probably be called as a witness.  I apologize for the misunderstanding because I wrote something carelessly above that gave that impression and then tried to clarify.  Perhaps not enough.

Trying again:  Gibbs, Jr. was the "Independent Investigator" brought in by IBLP when RG first published the story.  Everyone smelled a rat over that because Gibbs, Jr./CLA has ties with IBLP and is widely perceived to be biased.  Gibbs, Jr.'s (allegedly) biased and inadequate "Investigation" into the RG victim's allegations is part of the lawsuit.

FYI, Julie Anne over at SSB has a screen shot of a statement by IBLP that is worth looking at.  She calls it a  faux pas.  I think it comes into unforced error territory!  http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/12/23/while-the-board-of-bill-gothards-former-ministry-iblp-claims-judge-dismissed-lawsuit-attorney-for-plaintiffs-says-four-new-plaintiffs-have-come-forward/

Yay for Julie Anne :-)

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, apple1 said:

Yay for Julie Anne :-)

Yes, indeed.

[formergothardite]

It is good to keep in mind that this lawsuit isn't really about all the stuff Gothard did in the past, it is about the BoD and Gothard doing a sham investigation and releasing false information. This is where Gibbs Jr. comes in because he was supposed to be investigating and it appears he didn't even contact any of the women. As the BoD so nicely told us , he is a friend of IBLP and there is no way he did an unbiased investigation like they tried to claim.  

[Anonymousguest]

2 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

Gothard will not go down without a fight. When he does go downhe will take the BoD, his political connections, and some of the high profile families with him. This ain't gonna be pretty

Also having Gibbs, Jr representing Gothard/BoD and Gibbs III representing the plantifs sounds highly unethical (even if they are on the outs). I smell a rat.

I think you are over estimating the power of a civil lawsuit. I think at best they will settle. It's not going to "prove" anything other than the board didn't provide a decent investigation. Yes, the board will likely change, but I doubt it will change much of the day to day operations. People who trust and believe in Gothard will continue to support him, including his political connections. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

It is good to keep in mind that this lawsuit isn't really about all the stuff Gothard did in the past, it is about the BoD and Gothard doing a sham investigation and releasing false information. This is where Gibbs Jr. comes in because he was supposed to be investigating and it appears he didn't even contact any of the women. As the BoD so nicely told us , he is a friend of IBLP and there is no way he did an unbiased investigation like they tried to claim.  

Not quite.  (Not a lawyer and happy to be corrected because legalese is complicated.)  IIRC:

According to the complaint all the things Gothard did in the past are still relevant because of the overall charge of Failure to Protect from 1991 - 2014. 

Failure to protect meaning awareness of the problem but no employee training, no reporting to authorities, no corrective action taken and so on.  This caused emotional distress  - through willful and wanton acts and omissions and indifference to causing harm (and other legal language). 

From 2014, Gibbs III comes in.  This is the sham investigation charge - or conspiracy to accomplish an unlawful result (other legal language.) counts.

Then publishing of the findings of the fake investigation and declaring that the women's claims were wrong are the defamation counts.  And so on.

I also noticed that the complaint hedges all bets regarding the board extending it to "all past and present members" although it only actually names the current board and Stancil and Burrus. 

[DaisyD]

Here's an interesting thought (at least I thought it was). If Gibbs Jr raised his kids in ATI then that means that Gibbs III was raised ATI. While being a male afforded him certain privileges, he had his own brainwashing to get over. This would explain the changes in his choice of clients. 

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, Anonymousguest said:

I think you are over estimating the power of a civil lawsuit. I think at best they will settle. It's not going to "prove" anything other than the board didn't provide a decent investigation. Yes, the board will likely change, but I doubt it will change much of the day to day operations. People who trust and believe in Gothard will continue to support him, including his political connections. 

I hope it will be settled because that is obviously what the plaintiffs would prefer.  A jury trial will be hugely painful for them.  It could also prove very embarrassing for the board and IBLP.  Gothard will try to brazen it out and have no shame.

As far as I can see, they want to shine a light on wrong-doing and get a commitment from IBLP that it will change for the better.  They don't place a high value on money nor on revenge. 

I'd like IBLP to go under over this but that is not very likely.  It is sinking anyway but will last for a few more years, IMO.

If Libby Anne is reading - that is not anti-Christian statement.  It is a statement against the purveyors of the hypocritical, perverted and false Christianity that is Gothardism.

[sawasdee]

Quoting @PalimpsestIf Libby Anne is reading - that is not anti-Christian statement.  It is a statement against the purveyors of the hypocritical, perverted and false Christianity that is Gothardism.

YES!!!!!!! Thank you for saying this!!!

 

[sophie10130]

I think I'm missing something.

In the SSB article, she says 4 more plaintiffs have come forward to a total of 9. Have even more come forward to bring the total up to 14 or is there a mistake?

[Anonymousguest]

11 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

I think I'm missing something.

In the SSB article, she says 4 more plaintiffs have come forward to a total of 9. Have even more come forward to bring the total up to 14 or is there a mistake?

That article is from December. I think there are 10 named on the lawsuit.

[Palimpsest]

Just now, Anonymousguest said:

That article is from December. I think there are 10 named on the lawsuit.

Yes. This will take you to the latest article: http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/
 

Quote

 

The Judge granted permission for the Plaintiffs to amend and expand their lawsuit to include at least four new victims (for a minimum total of 14). This current lawsuit will be closed to any new plaintiffs after February 17, 2016. If more abuse victims come forward after that date, they would need to file a new lawsuit.

The Defendants plan to file motions opposing the expanded lawsuit and the next status conference with the court will be April 4, 2016.

 

 

[sophie10130]

Thanks! 

So many plaintiffs. It horrifies me how a community that preaches love and kindness could allow this to happen and continue to happen and continue to happen.

[diplomat]

6 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

It horrifies me how a community that preaches love and kindness could allow this to happen and continue to happen and continue to happen.

but Gothard and his followers aren't actually preaching (or even showing) love and kindness. They should be, if they mean to follow Jesus, as they claim. Instead, they promote legalism and hypocrisy, which then breed fear and insecurity and isolationism.

People who have been following Gothard for awhile may be psychologically unable to admit that he could be wrong about anything or ever do wrong to anyone. After all, he's the leader, and if he can't keep his own rules perfectly, they've been wasting their lives following him. So they circle the wagons to protect Gothard, while deliberately ignoring his misconduct.

[grandmadugger]

I hope this helps speed up the crashing and burning of IBLP.  They are about as Christian as the rocks in my yard.  NOTHING I've seen is truly Biblical.  Some of it is half way based on stuff from the Bible but it's been twisted to the point it's not even recognizable.  Plus, anyone who preys on the weak and covers it up just pisses me off.

[Palimpsest]

6 hours ago, diplomat said:

but Gothard and his followers aren't actually preaching (or even showing) love and kindness. They should be, if they mean to follow Jesus, as they claim. Instead, they promote legalism and hypocrisy, which then breed fear and insecurity and isolationism.

People who have been following Gothard for awhile may be psychologically unable to admit that he could be wrong about anything or ever do wrong to anyone. After all, he's the leader, and if he can't keep his own rules perfectly, they've been wasting their lives following him. So they circle the wagons to protect Gothard, while deliberately ignoring his misconduct.

Very well said.  Welcome, new member!

I finally struggled through the Questions section on Discovering Grace, where Alfred is practically turning summersaults and gibbering as he tries to explain away the lies and defend Bill Gothard.

I found myself actually pitying Alfred.  Such mindless devotion to Gothard is distressing to see.

[RosyDaisy]

Still, the fact that Gibbs, Jr. and Gibbs III are involved in this is highly suspicious IMO.

[Whoosh]

5 minutes ago, RosyDaisy said:

Still, the fact that Gibbs, Jr. and Gibbs III are involved in this is highly suspicious IMO.

This has been bothering me as well.  Do people who know more about all this than I do think that maybe Gibbs III spent some horrible time watching his father cover all this up and felt compelled to try to right that wrong in some way?  Is that just me being a pie-in-the-sky optimist?  Just about any other motive leaves me uneasy.

[RosyDaisy]

I hope this helps speed up the crashing and burning of IBLP.  They are about as Christian as the rocks in my yard.  NOTHING I've seen is truly Biblical.  Some of it is half way based on stuff from the Bible but it's been twisted to the point it's not even recognizable.  Plus, anyone who preys on the weak and covers it up just pisses me off.

I agree. Gothard and his ilk are false prophets.

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, Whoosh said:

This has been bothering me as well.  Do people who know more about all this think that maybe Gibbs III spent some horrible time watching his father cover all this up and felt compelled to try to right that wrong in some way?  Is that just me being a pie-in-the-sky optimist?  Just about any other motive leaves me uneasy.

God only knows about Gibbs III's motives.  After working for CLA for years defending institutions, churches, and individuals who were perpetrating abuse, he supposedly had a huge revelation a few years ago.  He split from Gibbs, Jr. and CLA, set up his own firm, and now claims to devote himself to working for victims.

Either he has had a genuine change of heart about working for victims or he has decided that representing plaintiffs is where the money and glory is these days.  He is representing Lourdes Torres against Doug Phillips and Vision Forum too.

@apple1 knows Gibbs III's past record better than I do, but he came to fame with the Terri Schiavo case.  He was on the "wrong" side in the Tina Anderson rape case, and I believe still represents the defendants in the Old Schoolhouse Cover-Up.  He may have taken that last case before he decided to devote himself to helping victims.

He's apparently a skilled attorney but his experience seems more in the area of defense than prosecution.  Messing up these high profile lawsuits will not reflect well on him. 

I do wonder whether Gibbs III and Gibbs, Jn. are on speaking terms these days.  Perhaps they are just fine and think it is part of the job.  On the other hand, claiming that your father was involved in a corrupt and biased investigation is a very big deal.