Josh - back to selling used cars in plain sight -Part 17

[Mothership]

6 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

If he was "addicted" to porn in the usual meaning of the word, I'd agree it would be hard to hide it from her.  But if they used that word incorrectly, deliberately or otherwise, and really meant he "likes to watch" porn, then he probably only used his phone (yeah, even that small screen would work for a very curious fundie -  before Playboy boys used photos of topless natives in National Geographic as porn) and stayed discreet about it.

An ad in a free porn video probably lead him to Ashley Madison.   Wanna cheat on your boring old spouse with a like-minded individual with total anonymity and no strings attached?  Just put your credit card number right here....and dumb ass was on his way.

So I think its possible Josh only watched porn on his phone when he was alone and the Duggars, always looking for a worldly scapegoat and wanting to place blame anywhere but on Josh himself, decided to go with the "porn made me do it" excuse.  When in reality he was bored or lonely or looking to capture some sexual freedom that he resented not being allowed before he was pushed into marriage.

Or maybe he didn't give a damn what Anna knew about his alleged addiction to porn.  It's hard to say.

 

I still have to wonder about their definition of porn.  The traditional definition is what the public is willing to accept or "I'll know it when I see it".  There are certainly degrees of tolerance  that come into play.  I'm not a fan of the Sports Illustrated swimsuit edition (since when has that got anything to do with sports?), but I wouldn't call it porn--I'd just be pissy about the blatant misogyny.  I'm not a fan of Playboy, but am not convinced there is substantial harm (again, other than the persistent misogyny)--is there a difference between porn and what has been called girly magazines?  Penthouse and Hustler begin to cross into the more "traditional" porn definition in my book.  Violence and children all cross a line.

So, is the Josh "porn addiction" and I agree with JJ that the Duggars often speak in hyperbole, so liking to see a little porn may have become a blamable addiction?  Did Josh go online to Playboy and from there connect with AM?  Was he really watching hard core porn?  Was he reading Penthouse letters and living in an Anna-free fantasy?  

I do separate Josh's molestations of his sisters from his porn watching or porn addiction.  I think his sisters were victims of opportunity.  I absolutely hold him ( and his parents) responsible, but I'm not opening up the pedophile debate here.  Instead, I'm curious whether his porn addiction is real or a convenient excuse and whether its even something that Anna was aware of (playboy magazines, etc) and tolerated.  

[EmmieJ]

4 hours ago, Funwithfundies said:

It bugs the crap out of me when they refer to him as Joshua post-scandal.  It's as if they're hoping we'll forget that Joshua = Josh (= smug asshole).

Ha!  I feel the same way.  It's like pasting a clean new label over a dirty ripped one.  Well Duggars, that dirty, ripped, cheating, lying, sinning label is still right there, underneath.

[AreYouThereGothard?]

On 6/5/2016 at 1:52 PM, Analytica49 said:

I totally agree with this. Among the many things that bother me about this family is that, despite their bigotry, their oppressive attitudes toward women and LGBTQI people, their obsessiveness about (one version of) sex, their failure to properly educate their children, their obliviousness to the effects of their "life style" on the environment, and their intolerance of all forms of religion other than their own, they continue to enjoy financial and material success.

When I think of all the kind, generous, compassionate, open-minded people I know who are struggling financially or going through great personal, medical, or familial hardships, I feel pretty sure there is no god. The injustice is simply too great.

 

Let's not forget that they also instill fear of "the world", yet take complete advantage of it. What bothers me the most is that when Michelle or the children needed serious medical attention, they went to hospitals with doctors and nurses, who have shelled out precious money and time on college educations and (from what I can tell) are all competent, knowledgable people. Michelle goes to an OBGYN (no Christian affiliation from my snooping) and the kids all go to the dentist. And yet they seem to object to the whole idea of college (oh noes, secular education?!?!?), anything costing more than $5, or being part of the very world they rely on to keep up their outrageous "lifestyle". This might sound strange, but I would totally love to see "Fundie Island" to see how they actually can keep up a modern lifestyle while relying solely on their values.

I personally am still exploring my own spirituality, but if there is a God, I think He face palms a lot. 

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 6/4/2016 at 8:36 PM, Bad Wolf said:

I can see ratings for Josh once, and as for the girls, they're boring. Look at what they could have done with Jill in dangerous CA, and what they actually did. In my opinion, they're done. Maybe that's wishful thinking.

If they allowed the girls to do anything other than sit around and breed they might be somewhat interesting. Joy & Jana seem to have some personality Jessa could be pretty spunky too. IMO Jill and Jinger are seemingly empty bags of air no personality and not very bright.  If JB wants a show I say let Joy, Jinger, the twins, Josiah, Joe, JD & Jana go on a road trip around the country. They have that big bus load em up, but make it a condition that the kids have to learn the history of each place they visit.  IF JB went for it, that might be interesting, and the kids would get some non Gothard approved knowledge. 

[Ungodly Grandma]

7 hours ago, Funwithfundies said:

It bugs the crap out of me when they refer to him as Joshua post-scandal.  It's as if they're hoping we'll forget that Joshua = Josh (= smug asshole).

That's a very interesting point. He was Born Again, so freshly baptized?

[RosyDaisy]

If Counting On is renewed and Josh makes appearances, I will boycott all TLC programming.

[BabyBottlePop]

8 hours ago, Funwithfundies said:

It bugs the crap out of me when they refer to him as Joshua post-scandal.  It's as if they're hoping we'll forget that Joshua = Josh (= smug asshole).

My mother in law calls my husband by his full first name when she is agitated at him, and I'm sure she did that when he was younger and got in trouble. Maybe that's what the Duggars are doing lol.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

18 hours ago, Local Gorilla said:

I see. Interesting choice of campaign! I get it.

If I understand it, as far as history is concerned, Mary became associated with the prostitute who bathed and anointed Jesus’ feet, right? I suppose perhaps this is one reason why she might be confused as such. And if I recall, she donated or supported his discipleship financially. Who's the whore now, Jesus?!*

(*Again, bold sarcasm here! Forgive me for any offense. Blame the gorilla.)

If you need to preemptively apologize for offense you already know it's going to offend people.  If you know that and post it anyway you clearly don't care, so why apologize?  

I'm not posting as a mod - just a pet peeve of mine that somehow indicating ahead of time that something is offensive mitigates the responsibility.  I don't get that.

 

[Lillymuffin]

14 hours ago, JenniferJuniper said:

If he was "addicted" to porn in the usual meaning of the word, I'd agree it would be hard to hide it from her.  But if they used that word incorrectly, deliberately or otherwise, and really meant he "likes to watch" porn, then he probably only used his phone (yeah, even that small screen would work for a very curious fundie -  before Playboy boys used photos of topless natives in National Geographic as porn) and stayed discreet about it.

Obviously I don't know the particulars of Josh's situation, but in my experience fundies define a porn addiction much differently than non-fundies do.

I have a close relative on the fundie side who apparently is a porn addict. He got caught with some naughty sites in his browser history. Now he's in therapy for sex addiction. (The kid is in college.) Normal (using the term lightly) people might've told him to be more careful about clearing his cache. 

[Dandruff]

59 minutes ago, Lillymuffin said:

Obviously I don't know the particulars of Josh's situation, but in my experience fundies define a porn addiction much differently than non-fundies do.

I agree, but doubt that porn addiction - however it may be defined - is relevant to the Josh problem.  I see it as a convenient distraction from the very real issues of his child molestation and pursuit of adulterous relationships...a way to paint him as part victim, and treatable.  Why else would Josh suddenly confess to a previously unknown (by the public, anyway) porn addiction when so much else was hitting the fan?  I don't think he, Jim Bob, or the PR folks were looking to turn him into any more of a pariah than he already was, so an alternative explanation would be that this would help him.  He was addicted, went for treatment, and is much better now, thank you very much, and please try to forget that I molested my sisters and paid to find women to cheat on my wife with.

[MarblesMom]

31 minutes ago, Dandruff said:

He was addicted, went for treatment, and is much better now, thank you very much, and please try to forget that I molested my sisters and paid to find women to cheat on my wife with.

And please put me on the cover of People next week as ... reformed and ready to ...  umm....

[EmCatlyn]

22 hours ago, Georgiana said:

(snipped quote of fiction)

I get your point, but since you are talking about possibly my favorite figure in the Bible, I MUST correct you:

Mary Magdalene was NOT a whore.  Nowhere in scripture does it imply this.  

The confusion arose due to a Pope in the 400's conflating the figures of Mary Magdalene and the repentant whore. This stuck around in Tradition,  However,  it has been admitted by Biblical scholars AND officially by the Catholic Church itself (Rare!!!) that this was completely and unequivocally a human error on behalf of that pontiff.  They were, very clearly, two different figures.  

IN FACT, the fact that she is called Mary of Magdalene (a distinction rarely given to women at the time) indicates that she was likely both independent and in good standing in the community.  It is more likely she was a wealthy widow, heiress, or business woman and, given what we know of the financial standing of the other apostles, likely that she was Jesus' financial backer mainly or in part.  

To give a further example: Peter is referred to as Simon, called Peter.  Not Simon of Nazareth or Simon of Judea.  Why?  Because he was a nobody.   

Mary gets the "surname" of Magdalene because she IS someone.  People presumably would have known who THE Mary (Miriam) of Magdalene was.  There were many Mary's in Magdalene (it was a common name), but SHE is the one who MATTERED because SHE had status.  

I totally agree that Mary Magdalen was not a whore.  I also agree that her being identified by a place name suggests that she had independent status. Otherwise she would have been described as the wife of X or the daughter of Y or the mother of Z.

Where I don't agree is that she was more important than other women named Mary (Miriam) in Magdala. I think the name we know her by is the name the early Christians used for her to distinguish her from the other Marys connected to Jesus.  It indicates her importance among followers of Jesus.

Anyway, I bet Josh and the Duggars don't know that (a) nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Magdalene was a reformed prostitute and (b) the idea that she was a prostitute originates with a Catholic Pope!!!  I have run into some really convoluted attempts by Baptists to hold on to the idea that Mary M. was indeed a fallen women.  (Those seven demons, you know ...)

[Ungodly Grandma]

5 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

And please put me on the cover of People next week as ... reformed and ready to ...  umm....

Quick, before I lose any more hair! 

[devoe364]

12 hours ago, BabyBottlePop said:

My mother in law calls my husband by his full first name when she is agitated at him, and I'm sure she did that when he was younger and got in trouble. Maybe that's what the Duggars are doing lol.

My Mom does this with me. I'm always D or Dodie (usually D) sometimes Dest, but when she's mad, Destiny comes out. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, devoe364 said:

My Mom does this with me. I'm always D or Dodie (usually D) sometimes Dest, but when she's mad, Destiny comes out. 

I've made up some extra middle names for my kids when actual full first middle confirmation and last weren't enough to express exasperation.  

Ditto pets.  

[devoe364]

12 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I've made up some extra middle names for my kids when actual full first middle confirmation and last weren't enough to express exasperation.  

Ditto pets.  

My Grandma was famous for yelling Milton, Eileen, Kathy, Russel, (aunts & uncles & mom) Destiny, Chad (myself and my brother- whichever one you are!

That was worse.

But yes, hearing first and middle with my Mom was bad too 

[Trynn]

I added some middle names to my friend's name in high school, and whenever she would exasperate me I'd start adding more. Her name ended up being Alyssa jasmine Jean Geraldine Matilda Mildred Gladys Amarina dense Bella real last name. (Alyssa jasmine was her real first and middle name).

She responded by calling me "mommy," since I "named her." So it's a tossup as to whether or not that went so well....

[sophie10130]

Man, no one ever got called by their first and middle names in my house!

My brother has his real first name but goes by something completely different since my dad has the same name and he was never even called by his "real" first name when he got in trouble. It would be so ridiculous I think he would have laughed, not been scared.

[samira_catlover]

On 6/8/2016 at 8:52 PM, JenniferJuniper said:

Yes.  The ultimate goal of most like-thinking fundies is political power so they can turn back the hands of time. Back to when women stayed in the kitchen, gays in the closet, Protestant white men ruled the roost and the country and the black man knew his place. (the GALL of one of them running for and actually becoming President, especially since he's a Kenyan-born secret Muslim!)

Given his history, Jim Bob may have been a little nervous about Josh going to DC, but ultimately he couldn't let that kind of opportunity pass.  That's the best thing about Josh being outed for what he is.  Like so many other right wing nuts, he can spew all kinds of holier than thou and hate talk but he doesn't really think the rules apply to him. I love when they get caught.

Fixed that for you---hope you don't mind.

[JesSky03]

On 6/9/2016 at 0:51 AM, EmCatlyn said:

 It is possible that she knew, but I think it is equally possible that she didn't.  

We don't know if he watched a lot of porn at home.  He may have done most of it at work, where he could shut the office door to "do accounts" or "look for cars to buy" or whatever excuse worked.

If he was at the computer late at night, the chances are good that if the screen was turned away, and Anna was half asleep, she might neither notice anything odd or suspect porn, unless she had reason to "watch" for it.  He could have told her that he was reading Bible commentary online or searching the real estate auction listings or whatever sounded plausible.  

The thing is, when you are not looking for something, you just don't see it.  When you trust someone, it may not cross your mind that they are doing something "bad."

Maybe she did find out.  Maybe he was careless or maybe she had been warned to watch him.  But I think it is possible that she didn't know.

Who knows.

 

This. I am married to a recovering alcoholic. I'm not sure how long he was drinking behind my back. I grew concerned when I noticed him drinking the beer in the fridge faster than normal but I trusted him and believed him when he said he didn't have a drinking problem. Fast forward a few months and a friend of ours moved in with us temporarily. He told me my husband was hiding alcohol in the bathroom. I searched the house after that and found many, many more bottles. It actually made me feel guilty for not seeing it sooner, for buying him beer on his birthday, etc. And there were times when he was drunk and we were fighting that he would blame me for his drinking. He is lucky I knew it wasn't him talking, it was the alcohol. Also very lucky that I am a forgiving person. I don't know if I believe that Josh has a sex addiction, but if he really does I can relate to Anna a bit and understand why she is still with him, and I can certainly believe that she didn't know. 

[MayMay1123]

@JesSky03, you pretty much described my marriage a while back...my husband had a trick of drinking a beer and then filling the can with vodka. I didn't understand how he could be acting like an ass when he only had one beer .  . 

[ksgranola1]

'snippers'

"This might sound strange, but I would totally love to see "Fundie Island" to see how they actually can keep up a modern lifestyle while relying solely on their values."

Well, that would describe the Amish. They do rely on modern conveniences when need be. To compete w/their English dairy farmers, they got modern milking machines run by generators. The light in the barn is propane. They have cell phones but only OUT of the house. They use taxi's for longer transport & most of the babies are born in a nice, clean, hospital.

[Marissap]

2 hours ago, ksgranola1 said:

'snippers'

"This might sound strange, but I would totally love to see "Fundie Island" to see how they actually can keep up a modern lifestyle while relying solely on their values."

Well, that would describe the Amish. They do rely on modern conveniences when need be. To compete w/their English dairy farmers, they got modern milking machines run by generators. The light in the barn is propane. They have cell phones but only OUT of the house. They use taxi's for longer transport & most of the babies are born in a nice, clean, hospital.

The Amish annoy me. There's a big group near where my dad lives and they will use every single modern convenience as long as it's not within the 4 walls of their house. They mooch off their neighbors and anyone in the community. Well that sounded a bit harsh, maybe they trade butter or something in return but still. It's not too convincing. 

[Coy Koi]

13 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I've made up some extra middle names for my kids when actual full first middle confirmation and last weren't enough to express exasperation.  

Ditto pets.  

I may have to try that. TIERRA MARGARET COGWORTHY GERTRUDE. Tierra Margaret is her real name, and Cogworthy I got from 30 Rock, my favorite show in the universe. Gertrude just seems like a good random name to throw in there.

[Evangeline]

On 6/9/2016 at 11:06 PM, Dandruff said:

I agree, but doubt that porn addiction - however it may be defined - is relevant to the Josh problem.  I see it as a convenient distraction from the very real issues of his child molestation and pursuit of adulterous relationships...a way to paint him as part victim, and treatable.  Why else would Josh suddenly confess to a previously unknown (by the public, anyway) porn addiction when so much else was hitting the fan?  I don't think he, Jim Bob, or the PR folks were looking to turn him into any more of a pariah than he already was, so an alternative explanation would be that this would help him.  He was addicted, went for treatment, and is much better now, thank you very much, and please try to forget that I molested my sisters and paid to find women to cheat on my wife with.

They probably believe that porn is the gateway "drug" to all sexual sins. I was taught this in IFB youth group. They think if he'd never looked at porn he never would have been tempted to touch his sisters and cheat on his wife. Ergo, if they fix the porn problem, he'll be cured of all his other proclivities.