Josh - back to selling used cars in plain sight -Part 17

[Fundie Bunny]

14 hours ago, anotherone said:

But...but... your idea actually makes sense.  That's where the problem lies.

I did wonder the same thing.  But fundie-ness aside, if you want to raise financially responsible kids, you don't just throw around money and let them make questionable investments (like hard to sell cars.)  You make them know the value of a buck.  But it usually starts out with an allowance, then a lemonade stand, selling rubberband bracelets and other crafts, then on to babysitting, etc. They didn't go through any of those steps, at least as far as we can see.

I can't see how JB paying for the houses, all the travel and vacations, and whatever else he does is going to teach those kids anything about managing on their own. Of course maybe that's the point.

 

This makes me wonder... What if JB and the family found out about the affairs, but it didn't become public.  Would he have brushed it under the rug and told Josh to stay at the job and just pray more, and hope it wouldn't be discovered. I have a feeling that's how it would have gone down.

Josh resigned (was fired) from the DC job shortly after the molestation scandal

[Lillymuffin]

On May 31, 2016 at 10:15 AM, formergothardite said:

IBLP marriage counseling. wonder if Gil Bates is going to lecture Josh on the dangers of sensual women. 

Ok, I'm way too sleepy. I just misread this and couldn't figure out for the life of me why Bill Gates would be at an IBLP function doing anything!!

[kunoichi66]

On 30/05/2016 at 8:02 PM, Carol said:

Well, I won't be sending anybody to you.  Rebar therapy is well known, well established theraputic tool used in the counseling field.  Used to straighten backs, straighten thinking, strengthen minds, strengthen hearts, etc. 

Rebarity...it works.  Or, you die.

Wel...admittedly, it would solve the problem.

 

Perhaps not in the way originally wanted, but it would solve it!

[Analytica49]

On 2016-06-02 at 5:48 PM, EyeQueue said:

It just sickens me how many opportunities this family has been given that more worthy families haven't gotten. And they've squandered it all and haven't learned dick from it. smh

I totally agree with this. Among the many things that bother me about this family is that, despite their bigotry, their oppressive attitudes toward women and LGBTQI people, their obsessiveness about (one version of) sex, their failure to properly educate their children, their obliviousness to the effects of their "life style" on the environment, and their intolerance of all forms of religion other than their own, they continue to enjoy financial and material success.

When I think of all the kind, generous, compassionate, open-minded people I know who are struggling financially or going through great personal, medical, or familial hardships, I feel pretty sure there is no god. The injustice is simply too great.

 

[silverspoons]

16 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

I didn't realize their ratings were low. Thought I heard it was good enough for another season. The rating might actually improve if Josh does make an appearance. Leg humpers all over the country would be glued to the TV. Remember "some" of them are actually ok with him being a curious teen boy who molested his sisters....

The ratings dropped off and were lower then some of the recent Duggar seasons. Still the are not that low. Sister Wives has about the same ratings, maybe even lower the last few weeks and there is no sign of that show leaving us. 90 Day Fiance has had lower ratings the whole time and it not only got another season and a spin off (yes more Mo and Danielle this year).

I love Million dollar listing NY and it has never had an episode with ratings has high as the Duggar's last season.

It is all going to be about how much the Duggars get paid and how much TLC will make. TLC doesn't care about Josh or his offenses, they care about the bottom line. If they can find advertisers based on the ratings, the show will come back. Normally the Countin on ratings would get advertisers to pay, it is only the very vocal public that has stopped advertisers.

[Analytica49]

Watching the Duggars, I try to understand the family members' motivations, what goes on inside their heads, and how they interpret their own lives to themselves.

Josh is particularly puzzling. When I saw the video of one of his speeches, posted earlier in this thread, I wondered how he thinks of himself.

He must, surely, know that the stuff he spouted about "family" and "mothers" and "fathers" was not consistent with his own actions. He frequently violated the rules of his religion about family life, sexual behavior, and good Christian men.

So, what did he tell himself? Did he tell himself that he was special, and did not have to adhere to those rules? Or did he tell himself that he was under a lot of pressure, and shouldn't be expected to be faithful to his wife? Or did he tell himself he would reform "tomorrow," or "next week," and then never follow through?

Or, more radically, did he start to question the tenets of his fundamentalist faith? Did he start to wonder whether God had really laid down a rule that marriage can only between a man and a woman? Did he lose faith in the idea that sex before marriage is sinful? Was he starting to reject the idea that everyone should have eleventy children?

Or, worst of all, did he just not think at all? Did he just spout freaky fundamentalist ideas, and live his secret life, and never think once of the implications of what he was doing to Anna? Did he just smugly think he would never be found out?

 

[anjulibai]

Personally, I think they're belief that all sin is equal is what allows people like Josh to do spout one thing and do another. They think they're sinners already, and thinking about sex with another is just as bad as actually having sex. So why not have sex with another? It'll be forgiven by god, in the same way just thinking about sex is. 

[socalrules]

I think Josh, and most fundies, see their failings as different than those of everyone else. I am sure they believe that God is not as angry with them as he would be with others because the devil was the cause of their actions but not those of the heathens. I firmly believe that Josh had no problem cheating on his wife while espousing his beliefs on morality because he believes he is special. He probably thought he was entitled to it.

He molested children, he cheated on his wife, and yet, he has spent his life pontificating on morality. He told people who should be allowed to be married, what version of Christianity with the "correct" one and he explained how morally superior he was for saving his first kiss for marriage and holding hands once engaged. He has been a hypocrite his entire life and yet I believe he thinks he is closer to God than all of is. I don't think that in his mind, anything he has done is in conflict of his belief system. 

[Naga Viper]

8 hours ago, Analytica49 said:

I totally agree with this. Among the many things that bother me about this family is that, despite their bigotry, their oppressive attitudes toward women and LGBTQI people, their obsessiveness about (one version of) sex, their failure to properly educate their children, their obliviousness to the effects of their "life style" on the environment, and their intolerance of all forms of religion other than their own, they continue to enjoy financial and material success.

When I think of all the kind, generous, compassionate, open-minded people I know who are struggling financially or going through great personal, medical, or familial hardships, I feel pretty sure there is no god. The injustice is simply too great.

 

Yes—but the Duggars' story isn't over yet. There could be more scandals, for one thing. And even if there aren't, the odds are stacked against them. JB's empire isn't big enough to support nineteen undereducated, largely work-averse adults and their spinoff families, and that was true even before Josh dealt the brand a grievous blow with the kind of bad PR that never goes away. If they'd learned anything from that, then maybe I'd believe their center might hold, but instead they doubled down on recycled footage of the one-trick pony show. 

Sure, they're still coasting on their own fumes, more or less, but for how long? The universe could still balance out and most likely will. Just over a year ago, we didn't see Joshley coming; who knows what another ten could bring? I don't think they've hit their low point yet, not by miles.

[EmCatlyn]

On June 4, 2016 at 3:00 PM, anotherone said:

<snip>

This makes me wonder... What if JB and the family found out about the affairs, but it didn't become public.  Would he have brushed it under the rug and told Josh to stay at the job and just pray more, and hope it wouldn't be discovered. I have a feeling that's how it would have gone down.

That was essentially what they did about the molestations, prayed, concealed and hoped no one would find out. But by the time tha Ashley Madison scandal came around, Josh didn't have a job.  He had had to resign because of the molestation scandal.

I think that if the AM scandal had come without the molestation being discovered first,  it would all have been handled as a series of 19kac episodes, there would have been a lot of prayer, etc. But no six month rehab.

And if there had been no molestation scandal or AM scandal, but JB had found out about AM or the porn, Josh would still have the Washington job, Anna would be no wiser about her husband's activities, and TLC might be filming the courtship of Marjorie... (No wind so bad that it blows no one any good.)

[MsSaylor]

I agree, the molestation scandal really compounded joshly Madison. It would have been an entirely different animal if the moleststion scandal had never broke, especially with close together the two scandals broke. It still would have been a scandal but to a lesser degree. What we found out about the molestations and how they were handled really informed perceptions about the Ashley Madison thing.

[formergothardite]

14 hours ago, anjulibai said:

Personally, I think they're belief that all sin is equal is what allows people like Josh to do spout one thing and do another. They think they're sinners already, and thinking about sex with another is just as bad as actually having sex. So why not have sex with another? It'll be forgiven by god, in the same way just thinking about sex is. 

Yeah, if all sins are equal and thinking something is as bad as doing it, why not just go on and do it? Also, Josh was raised in a culture where covering up stuff and not really practicing what you preach is normal. Look at Bill Gothard, he never followed his own rules. Top IBLP members weren't following the rules they preached. Even their close family friend Gil Bates is out spouting family values while helping cover up abuse. Is it any wonder that he had no issue doing what he had seen all these other people he was raised to respect do? 

[Drala]

16 hours ago, Analytica49 said:

Watching the Duggars, I try to understand the family members' motivations, what goes on inside their heads, and how they interpret their own lives to themselves.

Josh is particularly puzzling. When I saw the video of one of his speeches, posted earlier in this thread, I wondered how he thinks of himself.

He must, surely, know that the stuff he spouted about "family" and "mothers" and "fathers" was not consistent with his own actions. He frequently violated the rules of his religion about family life, sexual behavior, and good Christian men.

So, what did he tell himself? Did he tell himself that he was special, and did not have to adhere to those rules? Or did he tell himself that he was under a lot of pressure, and shouldn't be expected to be faithful to his wife? Or did he tell himself he would reform "tomorrow," or "next week," and then never follow through?

Or, more radically, did he start to question the tenets of his fundamentalist faith? Did he start to wonder whether God had really laid down a rule that marriage can only between a man and a woman? Did he lose faith in the idea that sex before marriage is sinful? Was he starting to reject the idea that everyone should have eleventy children?

Or, worst of all, did he just not think at all? Did he just spout freaky fundamentalist ideas, and live his secret life, and never think once of the implications of what he was doing to Anna? Did he just smugly think he would never be found out?

 

These are excellent questions, and they're precisely why a magazine or television interview with Josh would grab a lot of attention and viewers.  Since Josh has the basic instincts of a politician, I doubt there would be an honest appraisal of his inner dialog--if he has any.  And, of course, there's already an explanation:   He let Satan build a fortress in his heart, which is sort of like saying, "I compartmentalized my behavior."

[Alachantal]

On 5/30/2016 at 7:34 PM, Bad Wolf said:

I can't figure out what you do with the rebar. Use it like swords? Years ago they used to have couples fight each other with padded batons. (Maybe they still do.)

The bf and I "fight" each other with pool noodles when we can't find what we're looking for or are bored at Canadian Tire/Home Depot/Costco... if only they had pool noodles at Ikea!

I think I remeber that episode with the rebar, and JB and that counselor guy were putting the rebar between them at throat level? I remember it dimly so I could be remembering wrong. (I'm still on page 2 catching up so I'm sure someone already found the episode or what not)

[LittleSpouseOnThePrairie]

The one thing that always bothered me is why Josh took the job in D.C. to begin with. Fame and money are obvious answers, but I wondered if there were other "perks" he was considering for himself. In the episode where they left town they were obviously distraught over moving away from family, especially Anna having no help with the kids anymore. The timing of it seemed terrible for her so I figured Josh had some ulterior motives. 

[defraudedbychipendales]

On 6/2/2016 at 9:43 AM, devoe364 said:

I would agree with you completely on that. Josh has had no choice but to compartmentalize in order to keep sweet (I always use the FLDS term, and I know that Gothardites have a different word for it, I think they call it joyful obidience), you would have no choice. 

After watching "Growing Up Quiverfull " with Kristiana Miner, it makes me wonder, since Josh was not immersed in the cult all of his life, if he remembered/ realized that there are different lives he could be living, particularly after the move to DC.

It also makes me wonder if JD and Jana also will leave the life. Maybe JD is rebelling by not marrying, living alone, working a secular job. The three (maybe four) oldest surely remember another time without all the craziness.'

And please don't tell me a five year-old won't remember. I remember things from when I was three, and my four-year-old remembers things from last year.

[EmCatlyn]

On June 7, 2016 at 0:39 AM, LittleSpouseOnThePrairie said:

The one thing that always bothered me is why Josh took the job in D.C. to begin with. Fame and money are obvious answers, but I wondered if there were other "perks" he was considering for himself. In the episode where they left town they were obviously distraught over moving away from family, especially Anna having no help with the kids anymore. The timing of it seemed terrible for her so I figured Josh had some ulterior motives. 

I think status and money were strong enough reasons.  He didn't think of Anna because he is a self-centered egotist.  He may have thought he would have more freedom in DC, but I don't think he took the job for that reason.  He had political ambitions.  A job in DC with a lot of media exposure must have seemed like the dream job.  Even if he considered that the timing was not good for Anna, he probably dismissed the thought because, after all, it is a woman's place to submit.

 

[Jana814]

5 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I think status and money were strong enough reasons.  He didn't think of Anna because he is a self-centered egotist.  He may have thought he would have more freedom in DC, but I don't think he took the job for that reason.  He had political ambitions.  A job in DC with a lot of media exposure must have seemed like the dream job.  Even if he considered that the timing was not good for Anna, he probably dismissed the thought because, after all, it is a woman's place to submit.

 

I honestly think that Anna was not happy at all when he accepted the job in DC I doubt he considered her feelings & wants. All he thinks about is himself he doses not realize the consequences of his actions. 

[InThePrayerCloset]

On 5 June 2016 at 10:39 PM, Lillymuffin said:

Ok, I'm way too sleepy. I just misread this and couldn't figure out for the life of me why Bill Gates would be at an IBLP function doing anything!!

I worked with a man called Bates Gil. He's a very respected scholar on US politics.

After 3 years i still couldn't say his name without talking about either Bill Gates or Gil Bates... I just avoided referring to him by name if at all possible!!

[silverspoons]

11 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I think status and money were strong enough reasons.  He didn't think of Anna because he is a self-centered egotist.  He may have thought he would have more freedom in DC, but I don't think he took the job for that reason.  He had political ambitions.  A job in DC with a lot of media exposure must have seemed like the dream job.  Even if he considered that the timing was not good for Anna, he probably dismissed the thought because, after all, it is a woman's place to submit.

 

I agree with this but I also think Josh was living Jim Bob's dream. Either he wanted to make his father proud or he was sticking it to is father to say, I am doing what you were never able to do.

One interview that sticks out was when they had been in DC awhile. Josh and Anna were on the couch and actually looked relaxed and happy. They both admitted life was easier and they missed the days of the car lot and small house. It was one moment I could relate to them. We lived in a small 2 bedroom condo when I had surgeries and medical needs out of our area and it was tough times with money. It was a small but well designed floorplan, we had great neighbors and it was in the city so there was so much to do. I now have the big house, no money worries, my husband has his dream job but many nights I miss that small condo (it was 1/4 the size of my house), and the simple life we had.

[Buzzard]

On 6/7/2016 at 1:39 AM, LittleSpouseOnThePrairie said:

The one thing that always bothered me is why Josh took the job in D.C. to begin with. Fame and money are obvious answers, but I wondered if there were other "perks" he was considering for himself. In the episode where they left town they were obviously distraught over moving away from family, especially Anna having no help with the kids anymore. The timing of it seemed terrible for her so I figured Josh had some ulterior motives. 

The Duggars always had political aspirations.  I think they knew that Josh wasnt going to be the one to hold office (no degree) but this was a good foot in the door to real power.  The TLC show got them some name recognition, but having FRC on your side gives you legitimacy and got them into some real "events."  Too bad the kid they sent off as the emissary was the worst example of the beliefs they profess. 

[EmCatlyn]

7 hours ago, Jana814 said:

I honestly think that Anna was not happy at all when he accepted the job in DC I doubt he considered her feelings & wants. All he thinks about is himself he doses not realize the consequences of his actions. 

Yes. But his religion tells him that is okay.  None of the Duggars has been taught to think of others with empathy.  The best that they can manage is a shallow sort of sympathy.  But the male Duggars are given the additional message that wives are just supposed to serve their husbands' needs. Josh may have felt it was too bad that Anna wasn't embracing the move with enthusiasm, but it probably didn't make him reconsider.

[theinvisiblegirl]

In case anyone gives a shit about Joshley's favorite Bible verse...

I really think they're trying to integrate Josh back into the public eye in small ways. To say, "Look, no one's mad at him for being around! Everyone wants to see him!" to try and get him back on the show.

[sophie10130]

2 hours ago, Buzzard said:

The Duggars always had political aspirations.  I think they knew that Josh wasnt going to be the one to hold office (no degree) but this was a good foot in the door to real power.  The TLC show got them some name recognition, but having FRC on your side gives you legitimacy and got them into some real "events."  Too bad the kid they sent off as the emissary was the worst example of the beliefs they profess. 

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but I think you mean "Thank God"

Imagine if Josh was the foothold for real Duggar power in politics. 

[NCLunaLovegoodFan]

15 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

 

In case anyone gives a shit about Joshley's favorite Bible verse...

I really think they're trying to integrate Josh back into the public eye in small ways. To say, "Look, no one's mad at him for being around! Everyone wants to see him!" to try and get him back on the show.

 

944 likes?! Dear Lord...