Bates Family Part 10

[LadyPriss]

The talk about Gil helping coverup the abuse at IBLP got me thinking.

Gil is a professional grifter.  He is also lacking in the brightness department.  So, when the board offered him the position when the scandal hit and a few board members left, he jumped at the opportunity to 'use' the position to further his own interests.  He either turned a blind eye to the abuse or he realized he could overlook it as grifters tend to focus on themselves first and foremost.  

Insert lawsuit here.

Gil is named in the suit.  If Gil were to leave IBLP board, would it not be possible that he would have to pay for his own legal costs?  Who knows what sort of contracts the board members have, holding them in place.  Is it possible that he, at this point, is staying part of the board in order to not have to pay for his own legal representation?  

Dont get me wrong- I think IBLP is abhorrent on every level, but maybe Gil knows he is in this until the end now that the lawsuit specifically names him.  

Or, I could be completely wrong and Gil has a broom in hand with the rug being held up by the rest of the board.  

These are just thoughts I had.  I'm in no way saying Gils hands are clean by any way.  

[SweetFellowshipper]

52 minutes ago, BirthingGodsWarriors said:

I haven't watched last night's episode yet, just read the recap. But did they really delay the police academy graduation because Zach was late? That's crazy right? I mean, how many people were in his graduating class? Anyone watch the ep and care to enlighten me? Also, what was up with Brandon's reaction to the redecorating?

Sorry so many questions. 

 

Lillie and Ellie's (leghumper) recap:

Soon after Michaela and Brandon return from their honeymoon, Kelly, Carlin, Josie, Callie, Judson, and Jeb travel to Chicago for a visit.

“When I first got to Michael’s apartment, it was a perfect little place, but it’s really, really small, which is fine; we started out small,” says Kelly. “But it was very crowded. They have a lot more stuff than they have places to put it, and it was too cute of a place to be cluttered.”

The gals immediately start reorganizing the living room. 

“What have you been doing since I’ve been gone?” says Brandon when he returns from work.

“It took like an hour to decide if he liked it,” says Carlin.

The next day, Michaela and her mom and siblings take the iconic architectural boat tour through downtown Chicago.

“What a neat place to visit!” says Kelly. “Emphasis on Visit,” adds Gil, chuckling.

After the tour, it’s time for Kelly and the kids to head home. “It’s always hard to say goodbye to any of the children, no matter what their age is,” says Kelly.

Back in Tennessee, Erin and Chad discuss ideas for restoring an old hutch. Woodworking and restoring dilapidated furniture are currently just hobbies that Chad pursues in his free time, but he hopes to start a business in the future.

“Restoring furniture, doing any project really, is a way to relax for him,” says Erin, as she and Carson watch Chad work. The finished product is incredible!

The Bates family gathers to celebrate Zach’s graduation from the Blount County Regional Training Academy. The ceremony is delayed when Zach shows up late.

One of the speakers at the graduation ceremony reminds the recruits that nothing is more important than their partner, both on the job and at home.

It is an emotional day for Whitney and the rest of the Bates clan. “I was a proud wife because not many guys put their life on the line for people they don’t even know,” says Whitney.

“We are all super proud of Zach,” says Nathan.

The Bates family members, especially Whitney, admit that they worry about Zach as he works as a enforcement officer. “It makes me pray for him a whole lot more often,” says Kelly.

“[Zach] has become the kind of man I think…everybody wants their son to grow up and be like,” says Gil.

 

Ughhh, the cop rhetoric in this country. Don't want to start something, but every time I read it it freaks me out. 

That said, I'm a Whitney fan. And Chad....ohhhh, Chad.

[Screamapillar]

7 hours ago, ladyaudley said:

I just don't understand this naming a child before they're born. Sure, have your favourite name picked out, but what if they come out and look nothing like a Kaci?

I agree! I have a short list of both girls and boys names that I love, am 90% sure which one I want to use for my baby in September, but I'm not telling anyone in case I change my mind. My husband keeps telling people anyway though. We have a lot of friends and family who are also expecting right now, and he's worried that someone will "steal" our names.  

I've always liked the name Casey....for boys! Being Southern, I grew up with dozens of "Something Lynn" girls, pretty typical. Though, terribly, I always get a huge laugh out of that scene in the movie "Ted" when Mark Wahlberg is trying to guess a "white trash" name, reels off a long lists of names, and then asks if it's any of those name with "Lynn" after it.

Kaci Lynn will probably have to deal with people spelling her name incorrectly, but it will be fine. I have a "y" in my name where a lot of people have an "i" instead. (My parents thought it looked better with my last name spelled that way). It doesn't really bother me when people spell it wrong, except when people have known me for years (certain coworkers) continuously get it wrong when responding to an email from me in which they can clearly see how my name is spelled. That's just lazy.

[RoseWilder]

So would that be Zach running on Bates time? 

It grates on my nerves that these Fundies families smugly believe that they're instilling better character and values in their children when they don't even teach them to have consideration for other people's time/feelings. 

[MissBitters]

While our law enforcement does need serious reform, I don't think it's bad to be a cop or to want to be one. It is a much needed and potentially dangerous public service like firefighters, the military, etc. I haven't seen the episode so I don' t have the full context, but it doesn't sound like Whitney or Gil and Kelly said anything particularly freaky. I've heard worse fawning over law enforcement. All I can hope is that Zach does not let his family's religious convictions prevent him from being impartial while on  duty.

[SweetFellowshipper]

4 minutes ago, MissBitters said:

While our law enforcement does need reform, I don't think it's bad to be a cop or to want to be one. It is a much needed and potentially dangerous public service like firefighters, the military, etc. I haven't seen the episode so I don' t have the full context, but it doesn't sounded like Whitney or Gil and Kelly said anything particularly freaky. I've heard worse fawning over law enforcement. All I can hope is that Zach doesn't let his family's religious convictions prevent him from being impartial while on  duty.

No, I don't think they said anything different from what many people believe, and I'm not vilifying Zach personally. I disagree that law enforcement and the privatized prison system as they currently stand in the U.S. are ethical in any way, or that they are indeed "much needed" for what they actually usually do, which is target and abuse marginalized populations (from mentally ill people to drug users, racial minorities, immigrants, etc.) for profit. At this point I think it's fundamentally systemically immoral, racist, ableist, violent, and corrupt, and causes more danger and ends/ruins more lives, in more than one sense, than it  prevents or saves, respectively. I'm not going to get on a soapbox but my opinion is very strong on this and it's not going to budge, so probably any other debate I'll just stay out of. I respect that others don't share that perspective and that what Whitney is saying is unfortunately "normal." Whitney seems pretty low-key herself.

Doesn't mean I don't think Zach is a kind, average, and good person on an individual level. I can't know that, of course, but he seems lovely and to be a great father and husband. I'm happy on one level that he has a "normal person" job and is the Bates kid who's drifted the furthest thus far. 

[Whoosh]

20 minutes ago, Screamapillar said:

I always get a huge laugh out of that scene in the movie "Ted" when Mark Wahlberg is trying to guess a "white trash" name, reels off a long lists of names, and then asks if it's any of those name with "Lynn" after it.

And it was!  There's a lot a person could say about that movie, but the name scene was genius.

[Marilla-Cuthbert2013]

5 hours ago, ladyaudley said:

 

Hard to explain, but it's a feel thing! A friend recently had a child and was going to call him Alexander, but we all agreed he was nothing like an Alexander (dunno how) and he's now Tom. One of my oldest friends was meant to be Felix, but was tiny when born and didn't look "lucky" to his parents, so he is now Robin. It's a thing! Back me up, fjers ^^

My husband and I went into the delivery room with two girls names and two boys names (we wanted to be surprised). Within 30 seconds... My husband said: "She's not an Eleanore" and within 30 minutes, I was like: "She's not a Georgia, what the hell are we going to do?"  The nurse responded: "You have about 21 hours to come up with a name". So yeah, we were that couple that spent the first 21 hours of our daughter's life going through a name book trying to come up with a name. 

While it was stressful, I am glad we spent 21 hours looking at names, because our daughter's name really does fit her. 

[IrishCarrie]

My mother believed in raising daughters that were capable of being anything they wanted to be, and her guideline for naming was "Will it sound credible with the phrase Supreme Court Justice before it?...".

So, Judge Caroline Lastname - no problem! I'm good for that job 

Judge Kaci Lynn Bates just don't sound right to me, but maybe I'm being mildly racist because I don't know the naming practises in the part of the USA. It just doesn't sound like a grown up name.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, before you all jump on me, I'm well aware that she'll be raised with marriage and motherhood being the zenith of her ambition so it's not really an issue.

Just sayin... 

[Paperplate]

1 hour ago, singsingsing said:

I used to have that attitude about 'khreatyve' spellings (actually, my attitude was totally obnoxious) until I got deeper into the history of names and realized that creative spellings have always existed. Now, yeah, personally, I tend to prefer traditional spellings. But I no longer feel the same scorn for 'creatively' spelled names (I mean, what's the point?) and I no longer believe that naming your kid Jaydynne or Bayleigh is setting them up for a lifetime of struggle and despair. Yes, I prefer traditionally spelled names, and yes, to be honest, I do feel that they're objectively better, but I've also come to believe that it's really not that big of a deal.

Here's a cool link where you can see how many different spellings of women's names existed during the Middle Ages: https://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/reaney/ Check out names like Katherine, Isabel, or Margaret - tons of variations. 

Here's the earliest data on name popularity in America: http://www.behindthename.com/top/lists/united-states/1880 People in the 1880s were happily naming their children 'misspelled' things like Lora, Mabelle, and Edythe, and giving their kids nicknames as full first names, like Charley, Willie, Hattie and Lizzie.

The older name popularity charts are a goldmine, by the way. Anyone who thinks weird names were invented in the 20th century is in for a rude awakening.

Good point about weird spellings not being a recent development ... and I never thought those different versions were THAT bad.

But the final i is weird. It just doesn't normally occur in English orthography, only in loanwords like ski or zucchini – and they aren't very frequent. It doesn't exist in native English words, to my knowledge.

That's why Kaci is a strange name (to me), while Kacy or Kacey seem fine.

[formergothardite]

3 hours ago, LadyPriss said:

The talk about Gil helping coverup the abuse at IBLP got me thinking.

Gil is a professional grifter.  He is also lacking in the brightness department.  So, when the board offered him the position when the scandal hit and a few board members left, he jumped at the opportunity to 'use' the position to further his own interests.  He either turned a blind eye to the abuse or he realized he could overlook it as grifters tend to focus on themselves first and foremost.  

Insert lawsuit here.

Gil is named in the suit.  If Gil were to leave IBLP board, would it not be possible that he would have to pay for his own legal costs?  Who knows what sort of contracts the board members have, holding them in place.  Is it possible that he, at this point, is staying part of the board in order to not have to pay for his own legal representation?  

Dont get me wrong- I think IBLP is abhorrent on every level, but maybe Gil knows he is in this until the end now that the lawsuit specifically names him.  

Or, I could be completely wrong and Gil has a broom in hand with the rug being held up by the rest of the board.  

These are just thoughts I had.  I'm in no way saying Gils hands are clean by any way.  

Gil is a grifter, but he and Kelly aren't dumb. They play up the whole clueless country folks thing for the camera, but he is a conniving manipulative man who knew exactly what he was getting into and knows exactly what he is doing now. Gil has a broom in hand and is holding up the rug with the rest of them. He isn't a clueless victim. He is traveling around being the main speaker for IBLP this year and has lots of classes he teaches through them. 

ETA: I think something about the Bates makes people want to root for them and makes people want Gil to just be a clueless grifter who got trapped in a situation like the lawsuit. But if you look at what went on, I think it is pretty clear that Gil made a conscious choice to cover up and lie about abuse. When Gothard became too big of a liability he helped get rid of him. And then he helped try to move money around to avoid paying victims. He isn't just a hapless grifter who stumbled into a cult and got caught up in a lawsuit on accident. He is making calculated moves. 

[singsingsing]

1 hour ago, Paperplate said:

Good point about weird spellings not being a recent development ... and I never thought those different versions were THAT bad.

But the final i is weird. It just doesn't normally occur in English orthography, only in loanwords like ski or zucchini – and they aren't very frequent. It doesn't exist in native English words, to my knowledge.

That's why Kaci is a strange name (to me), while Kacy or Kacey seem fine.

What are 'native English words', though? English is a mishmash of Germanic and Latin origins, with loanwords from a whole variety of different languages, and it's changed so much over the past thousand years that if you found yourself back in, say, 15th century England, you wouldn't be able to understand anyone, and no one would be able to understand you. English names have also historically come from a wide variety of sources, from Germanic to Norse to French to Latin to Greek to Hebrew to Celtic. Sorry, I just love to geek out about names!  

[feministxtian]

1 hour ago, IrishCarrie said:

My mother believed in raising daughters that were capable of being anything they wanted to be, and her guideline for naming was "Will it sound credible with the phrase Supreme Court Justice before it?...".

So, Judge Caroline Lastname - no problem! I'm good for that job 

Judge Kaci Lynn Bates just don't sound right to me, but maybe I'm being mildly racist because I don't know the naming practises in the part of the USA. It just doesn't sound like a grown up name.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, before you all jump on me, I'm well aware that she'll be raised with marriage and motherhood being the zenith of her ambition so it's not really an issue.

Just sayin... 

You're a Caroline too? When I was born, my mother had a name picked out for me...VERY Latina. Carolina Isabella Maria (mother's maiden name) (father's GERMAN last name). My father changed it to Caroline Elizabeth (very GERMAN last name). I still hate it to this day. 

[19 cats and counting]

6 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

You're a Caroline too? When I was born, my mother had a name picked out for me...VERY Latina. Carolina Isabella Maria (mother's maiden name) (father's GERMAN last name). My father changed it to Caroline Elizabeth (very GERMAN last name). I still hate it to this day. 

I'm also a Caroline.   Fun fact is that Elizabeth was floated around for my middle name (it's my sister's middle name) but my last name begins with O and they didn't want CEO as initials (which is why my sister's name is not spelled the traditional way).  

My middle name is my mom's maiden name, which means I'm unintentionally named after my grandfather (I found out that Caroline was one of the feminine forms of his name about a month after his death).  

[HerNameIsBuffy]

38 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

What are 'native English words', though? English is a mishmash of Germanic and Latin origins, with loanwords from a whole variety of different languages, and it's changed so much over the past thousand years that if you found yourself back in, say, 15th century England, you wouldn't be able to understand anyone, and no one would be able to understand you. English names have also historically come from a wide variety of sources, from Germanic to Norse to French to Latin to Greek to Hebrew to Celtic. Sorry, I just love to geek out about names!  

I love names and linguistic info so I am just sad I can only like your post once.

Over all I'm pretty glad i'm not Michelle Duggar, but I looooove the naming process so much I would have been happy to do it 19 times.  

And I'd have managed to do it without duplicating.  Joseph and Josiah - please.  Way to take "Joe" as an option from either of them unless they fought for it. 

 

[OyToTheVey]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I love names and linguistic info so I am just sad I can only like your post once.

Over all I'm pretty glad i'm not Michelle Duggar, but I looooove the naming process so much I would have been happy to do it 19 times.  

And I'd have managed to do it without duplicating.  Joseph and Josiah - please.  Way to take "Joe" as an option from either of them unless they fought for it. 

 

I think they call Joseph "Joe" and Josiah "Siah". Still weird to have 2 boys with the same name. But than again they have a Joy Anna and a Johanna. Which to me is the same name.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

2 hours ago, Marilla-Cuthbert2013 said:

My husband and I went into the delivery room with two girls names and two boys names (we wanted to be surprised). Within 30 seconds... My husband said: "She's not an Eleanore" and within 30 minutes, I was like: "She's not a Georgia, what the hell are we going to do?"  The nurse responded: "You have about 21 hours to come up with a name". So yeah, we were that couple that spent the first 21 hours of our daughter's life going through a name book trying to come up with a name. 

While it was stressful, I am glad we spent 21 hours looking at names, because our daughter's name really does fit her. 

I have to admit my kids didn't look like any particular name when they were born.  They were adorable and I loved them but as newborns they just looked like generic babies to me - it wasn't until later that they started to resemble themselves, if that makes sense.

I think it's great that you put so much thought into it when you saw her - makes me feel like a crappy mom that I didn't think mine looked like any particular name.

I had my eldest son's name picked out since I was in 5th grade - fortunately his dad liked it, too.   My others I had their names locked long before they were born although we didn't tell people ahead of time.

Whenever someone is pregnant and tells me the names I always say something nice, no matter what I really think...because I've seen so many friends get very bummed when people criticize a name they love.  And the way I figure it no one would criticize to their faces after the baby was born and named so why chime in ahead of time?

Tbf none of my friends named their kids Spurgeon.  That could have tested my rule on this.  

I think Kaci Lynn is fine.  Kind of generic and I wouldn't have chosen it, but it's cute.  I know it's a southern thing, too, but I swear growing up in the Midwest in the 70's almost every girl I know had a middle name of Lynn, Ann, or Marie.  

This is a fun calculator - takes your name and the year you were born and tells you what your name would be today by rank.  (Ie if your name was ranked 100 in your birth year it gives you today's 100th ranked name.  Glad I'm not born today - mine would be hideous.

http://time.com/3856405/baby-name-popularity/

And these are really cool - show the most popular names by decade, by state in a morphing graph - girls and boys.

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/10/a-wondrous-gif-shows-the-most-popular-baby-names-for-girls-since-1960/280709/

http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/10/americas-most-popular-boys-names-since-1960-in-1-spectacular-gif/280852/

[choralcrusader8613]

17 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

I think they call Joseph "Joe" and Josiah "Siah". Still weird to have 2 boys with the same name. But than again they have a Joy Anna and a Johanna. Which to me is the same name.

At least they call Johannah "Hannie", and generally Joy-Anna goes by Joy (she's even on Jessa and Ben's wedding program as Joy Duggar).

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, choralcrusader8613 said:

At least they call Johannah "Hannie", and generally Joy-Anna goes by Joy (she's even on Jessa and Ben's wedding program as Joy Duggar).

Yeah - those are too similar for me, too.  People tend to lump Jana in there, although that seems to be distinct enough from Joy Anna and Johanna to not be weird.  

I think Hannie is a really cute nick and it's nice that she gets something without a J - like Sia...just must be nice to have their own initial in that family.

I think the Duggar's did a spectacularly bad job in naming their kids since I think most of their names are pretty awful.  And I don't get the John-David thing since it's an odd combo to hypenate, to my ear.  Jim-Bob isn't a name I'd pick for my baby, but it's a common dual name in some regions (and my favorite Walton) but John-David just sounds like he's in trouble and they are busting out the middle name.

I do like the name Jordan - but not their spelling.  Jana is nice, although I'd have gone with Janna and I have always liked the name Jill.  But if I had to go through life with Jedediah or Josiah while my younger brothers got Jason and Justin I'd be pretty pissed.

[choralcrusader8613]

2 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

But if I had to go through life with Jedediah or Josiah while my younger brothers got Jason and Justin I'd be pretty pissed.

Honestly, it cracks me up how many nicknames are in that family though, because even Jedidiah and Jeremiah don't go by their full first name. They go by Jed and Jer (which, according to Jill, is pronounced Jeer). Jackson is Jackie, which doesn't make any sense to me, but whatever. JD gets called John most of the time in the later episodes, which sounds better to my ears (like they care what I think lol).

[HerNameIsBuffy]

29 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

I think they call Joseph "Joe" and Josiah "Siah". Still weird to have 2 boys with the same name. But than again they have a Joy Anna and a Johanna. Which to me is the same name.

Yeah, I know - I guess just think it would be nicer if the kids had all the options of their names - if that makes sense.  Not that I really care, just musing.

I gave my daughter a formal name which has a zillion options for nicknames.  I had no intention of calling her the formal name (although I love it) and she's had a nickname since before she was born and goes by that (which is also a stand-alone name as well as historically a nickname for her middle-name but pretty atypical in this era in the US.)  

But as much as I love her nick name, if she hated it and wanted one of the eleventy variants of her first name I'd have gone along with that.  It's weird though - I love her first and middle name together, but i'm not a fan of her first name on it's own so when she gets mail first name middle initial it's a twinge of annoyance.  Because I meant for them to always be used together.  I knew I should have hyphenated it and given her a separate middle name! 

 

2 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Honestly, it cracks me up how many nicknames are in that family though, because even Jedidiah and Jeremiah don't go by their full first name. They go by Jed and Jer (which, according to Jill, is pronounced Jeer). Jackson is Jackie, which doesn't make any sense to me, but whatever. JD gets called John most of the time in the later episodes, which sounds better to my ears (like they care what I think lol).

I know, right?!   They don't care what we think about actual real issues and the damage they cause - and they shouldn't care what we think about this!  If we all posted family names here it would be the same - one person's awesome name is another's mild snark   

This is such a personal preference thing - I have seen people say they love certain names here where I think, really?  Yikes...and I promise you there would be a ton of snark if you knew my kids' names!  

But people snarking on a message board about bec stuff is the price they pay for those fat TLC checks, imo - so no guilt here!

[singsingsing]

45 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I love names and linguistic info so I am just sad I can only like your post once.

Over all I'm pretty glad i'm not Michelle Duggar, but I looooove the naming process so much I would have been happy to do it 19 times.  

And I'd have managed to do it without duplicating.  Joseph and Josiah - please.  Way to take "Joe" as an option from either of them unless they fought for it. 

 

Seriously! I used to think I wanted like 10 kids. Then I realized I just wanted to name them all. And then I discovered The Sims.

[Jana814]

11 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Yeah - those are too similar for me, too.  People tend to lump Jana in there, although that seems to be distinct enough from Joy Anna and Johanna to not be weird.  

I think Hannie is a really cute nick and it's nice that she gets something without a J - like Sia...just must be nice to have their own initial in that family.

I think the Duggar's did a spectacularly bad job in naming their kids since I think most of their names are pretty awful.  And I don't get the John-David thing since it's an odd combo to hypenate, to my ear.  Jim-Bob isn't a name I'd pick for my baby, but it's a common dual name in some regions (and my favorite Walton) but John-David just sounds like he's in trouble and they are busting out the middle name.

I do like the name Jordan - but not their spelling.  Jana is nice, although I'd have gone with Janna and I have always liked the name Jill.  But if I had to go through life with Jedediah or Josiah while my younger brothers got Jason and Justin I'd be pretty pissed.

My name is Jana. It has taken me years to like my name.  I have seen it spelled with 2 N's but my name or not spelled with 2 N's. 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

I hate krea8tiv names, but mainly because the spelling of my own name is not the "standard" spelling and I honestly wish my parents just spelled it the "normal" way because to this day, I'm over constantly having to spell my name out and having to correct it when people spell it wrong. It's annoying. So whenever I see one of those names, I just feel a bit sorry for the kid. 

Anyway, Kaci Lynn is not too bad. Very country but that suits Zach and Whit. I don't hate it, but it is one of those names that is cute on a kid but a little.....babyish on a grown adult IMO. 

[VaSportsMom]

Kaci doesn't seem like a full name to me, I don't like it neither soundwise or visually, Casey would have been so much better, but preferably Katherine, Kathleen, Katharina, etc. as given name, plus they all sound good with Lynn (which is a really cute middlename, even if very country).  

Hey now, my middle name is Lynn! I hate my first name but my mom wanted a name that wasn't in the family so she named me after the last girl my dad dated before marrying her.