Jill & Jessa Special, Sunday, December 20

[pnwgypsy]

I wonder how truly naive Anna (& all the kidults for that matter) are to matters of understanding molestation is wrong, what pornography actually is & Anna's exposure to STIs. Sure they toss out the term pornography all the time, but does it just equate to a big bad sexual sin to them?

With Anna, she's in a no win situation. How can you attempt to process when, its your fault your husband strayed, you have to forgive him & any thoughts of anger make you even worse of person for not meeting his needs.

Of course they're all fake. How else do you stay sweet 100% of the time?

[albanuadh_1]

Wonder if Josh gets home for Christmas?

[Jana814]

6 minutes ago, albanuadh_1 said:

Wonder if Josh gets home for Christmas?

I don't think so. I think I read somewhere he's not getting out till February. 

[Mothership]

43 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

Maybe that time apart from Jill is what is keeping Derrick sane.  Actually, I think the guy is fairly content with his life.  He seems to have simple needs - a wife, a kid, a place to sleep, and pretend missionary work to look forward to!

I agree.  I think the whole mission thing is truly felt by Derrick.  The Duggars have taught him how to grift for mission, but I think he really wants to be there.   A part of me still thinks that he's especially liking being away from JB and DQ and striking out on his own (well, except for the grifting)

He might actually be learning to speak Spanish and I think he really does fine living simply. 

I think Jill might actually be able to make this work--At this point, the living conditions present no hardship, but as others have mentioned, she's not fluent in English, so I"m not holding out much hope for a second language.

I just wish they'd actually talk about what they really think they're going to be doing and to take some classses in cultural proficiency.  I'm so tired of the "dangers of CA", while they're holed up in the tourist mecca of Guatemala (Antigua).

[picklepizzas]

20 hours ago, mausi said:

Jana looks at Joy like a proud mother.

*sputter* b - b - but that's ridiculous! we all know jana's not really joy's mother. jill is. 

 

also despite reading 15 pages of this, i'm going to have to watch the episode myself because i won't believe that anna is ACTUALLY staying in the girls' dorm until i hear it from her lips myself. because that is truly just beyond my comprehension. that is too truly horrible to believe. 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, bella8050 said:

I don't think she's happy staying in the girls room either. For years now she has been happy to be fulfilling her "role" as not only a wife but a homemaker. Both of those things were taken away from her at the same time. I have a hard time believing she's still going out and doing her own food shopping and making the types of meals she normally was for the kids. I can't imagine living her life for a lot of reasons, but right now, to not have a moment of privacy to have a good cry or to reflection on the situation...that would drive me absolutely crazy.

I agree about the privacy.  I expect she spends a lot of time in the bathroom on one pretext or another.  

But the loss of her own home must be bearable only if she can look at it as temporary.  She may not have tried to make other arrangements because it is too difficult.  It is a time in transition when she can't lead a normal life.  But she misses Josh in part because his return will mean the return to normal life, whatever her new normal will be.

[missegeno]

20 hours ago, JHeathen said:

Re: Anna leaving...Anna has exactly ZERO life skills.  She could sell her wedding bands and that would get her, what?  A one-month deposit and maybe first month's rent on an apartment, and some groceries...then what?  She cannot get a job, has no means to earn an income, no skills except childcare and even that...no certifications or training of any kind to show an employer.  Electricity, groceries, and climate control bills, four very young kids, no skills, and no income.  She has probably never, ever heard of any organizations that may help fundies escape...how could she hear of them?  At least Mormons living on compounds have the whisperings and rumors of other women around them to find out about the real world.  Anna is isolated and is shackled into the lifestyle with no way to get out.  

Not to be not-picky, but I think you are referring to the FLDS, who are known for living in compounds, following Warren Jeffs, and practicing polygamy. "Mormon" is a term for LDS followers, who are known for showing up at your door in a white shirt with a nametag and a bike.

 

The two churches branched apart over a century ago and, in my experience, very much dislike being conflated with one another.

[MoonFace]

2 hours ago, albanuadh_1 said:

Wonder if Josh gets home for Christmas?

We'll know for sure in September if Anna gives birth to #5.....

Why the hell is Anna in with the girls?   Why can't she at least have the 'guest house' (the room over the garage that Bin used) 

It's as if they are afraid she might make a break for it or actually THINK on her own. 

[Coconut Flan]

They even have a guest house in addition to Ben's old room and the "pool house." 

[albanuadh_1]

I heard too that Josh isn't supposed to be home until February but just wondering if they would try to 'sneak' him in for Christmas.

 

Moonface: lol . Guess you're right! We'll know in September!

[JenniferJuniper]

10 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

They even have a guest house in addition to Ben's old room and the "pool house." 

Yes. No reason why Anna and the kids couldn't have their own quarters in the guest quarters (the space they have their traveling fundie friends stay when they stop by, not Ben's old "room").

No reason except Jim Bob doesn't want her to have any time or space to herself.

I don't want to feel sorry for Anna but I can't help it.  Even if she were thinking semi-clearly and not fully brainwashed, I'm not sure she'd see many options. Her parents want her back with that cheating, molesting pig she calls a husband and even if they supported her independence from the Duggars, they don't have much space.  I know at least one or two of her siblings offered her refuge, but that would probably only be a temporary option if they don't have enough extra room for a mother, two young children, a toddler and a newborn.  I can't imagine their significant others would put up with it for more than a few weeks.

At least the Duggars can provide her with childcare and companionship and a few diversions, even though Jim Bob's reasons for having her stay are insidious.  

[daniee]

Does anyone know if Anna has had counseling? Real, professional counseling? Probably not. She needs it. It would be a huge benefit for her to talk to a NEUTRAL party, not a counselor set up by the Duggars. She must have some kind of health insurance that includes mental health. 

The poor thing is probably being made to believe it's all her fault. sigh. 

[Jana814]

9 minutes ago, daniee said:

Does anyone know if Anna has had counseling? Real, professional counseling? Probably not. She needs it. It would be a huge benefit for her to talk to a NEUTRAL party, not a counselor set up by the Duggars. She must have some kind of health insurance that includes mental health. 

The poor thing is probably being made to believe it's all her fault. sigh. 

I don't think she will ever get professional counseling. 

[2manyKidzzz]

Why would she need counseling?!?!?!?!?!

She has Jeebus and The Lord. Oh, they are the same. 

I truly feel bad for her. Truly. 

[Buzzard]

I'm interested in the complete whitewashing of the "statement."  There was no mention or hint that they didnt issue a single statement about the porn/joshley maddison... they issued 4, 5?  I didnt go back to compare, but I wonder if this version is one we've seen before or has been slightly edited yet again.

The Duggars/Josh lied until they couldnt lie anymore, then they told the truth, changed the truth, changed it again, and now are rewriting history with this little shit show of a special.  We're not that stupid.

Hey TLC, we remember what Josh did in his "youth," the "precautions" the family had to take, and his internet sex trolling.  We also remember that he did all these things while thumping his bible and yelling loudly that we are all doing it wrong.  You cant just play ominous musik and flash some lights and change the facts.  They're all complicit. Stop trying to whitewash who they are and what has happened by making us think they were all clueless oafs. 

[Mela99]

There's no such thing as real counseling in that house. I'm sure her counseling is following Mullet around to learn to be a better wife and spread her legs more often.

[SilverBeach]

7 hours ago, EmmieJ said:

I think Jen and her husband probably started off with good intentions but now they are just as enamored of the money and fame as JimBob and Michelle.  I have very little respect for any parent who sells out their children's privacy on a reality tv show.  Sure, Jen and Bill seem much nicer and more "normal," but in the end it's still selling your children's privacy so you can have expensive cars, a customized new home, vacation home, vacations, and all the other perks that come with selling your children for the entertainment of strangers.  Ugh!

No. Jen is a doctor and Bill was a successful businessman before TLC or the children. They send out no smug vibes. I don't understand what you base your statement on that they are probably enamored of money and fame. They have spoken about educating folks about the real lives of little people, and inspiring little people. How many little person doctors do you know? If they felt for a moment that Will and Zoey were being harmed in any way, they would pull the plug. Cynicism is not warranted in their case. Yes, I am a Little Couple leghumper and proud of it! Bill and Jen have faced real issues, with her diagnosis of cancer right when Zoey's adoption was being finalized, and Bill's surgery. All of this was faced with dignity and strength, polar opposite of the Duggars. I'll stop here.

[Chickenbutt]

I wonder what is defined as porn by the Duggars......Sears Catalog opened to the "young miss" section? Playboy?

Cosmo? It would be interesting to know what Josh looked at as a young teen, and what porn he has become "addicted" to.

Does the Sears catalog equal Hustler magazine (is that even still published?)

[Natalie22]

Just now, Chickenbutt said:

I wonder what is defined as porn by the Duggars......Sears Catalog opened to the "young miss" section? Playboy?

Cosmo? It would be interesting to know what Josh looked at as a young teen, and what porn he has become "addicted" to.

I also wonder how 'addicted' he is to it.  Does he like looking at it often?  Because that's not necessarily unhealthy.  The amount that he's viewing is probably related to not being able to explore what he's into with his partner.  I'm sure they have very defined rules of what is acceptable and I'm sure it would be difficult for both partners not to have an open conversation about what they're in to.

[Gossamer1]

8 minutes ago, Natalie22 said:

I also wonder how 'addicted' he is to it.  Does he like looking at it often?  Because that's not necessarily unhealthy.  The amount that he's viewing is probably related to not being able to explore what he's into with his partner.  I'm sure they have very defined rules of what is acceptable and I'm sure it would be difficult for both partners not to have an open conversation about what they're in to.

I've suspected from the start that there is no addiction as we in the non-fundie world understand the word.  Most addictions start as a choice (to have a drink, visit a casino, etc) and then escalate to the point that the person no longer has control or realizes they are beginning to lose control.

 I believe the Duggars define it as  "we told you once not to do that, you've done it again anyway, you must be an addict. Also, you have embarrassed us and we need to make sure that everyone knows it's not our fault."

[Natalie22]

Just now, Gossamer1 said:

I've suspected from the start that there is no addiction as we in the non-fundie world understand the word.  Most addictions start as a choice (to have a drink, visit a casino, etc) and then escalate to the point that the person no longer has control or realizes they are beginning to lose control.

 I believe the Duggars define it as  "we told you once not to do that, you've done it again anyway, you must be an addict. Also, you have embarrassed us and we need to make sure that everyone knows it's not our fault."

That's my take on it too.  I'm sure being told that it's a horrific sin makes it harder to understand moderation.  If we thought drinking was a sin and one drink will ruin your life, I don't think I would care as much about my consumption levels once I started.  It may be the same for him with porn.

[Jana814]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

No. Jen is a doctor and Bill was a successful businessman before TLC or the children. They send out no smug vibes. I don't understand what you base your statement on that they are probably enamored of money and fame. They have spoken about educating folks about the real lives of little people, and inspiring little people. How many little person doctors do you know? If they felt for a moment that Will and Zoey were being harmed in any way, they would pull the plug. Cynicism is not warranted in their case. Yes, I am a Little Couple leghumper and proud of it! Bill and Jen have faced real issues, with her diagnosis of cancer right when Zoey's adoption was being finalized, and Bill's surgery. All of this was faced with dignity and strength, polar opposite of the Duggars. I'll stop here.

I love Jen & Bill also. They are giving their children a live that they could never have in their home countries. 

[JenniferJuniper]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Jen is a doctor and Bill was a successful businessman before TLC or the children. They send out no smug vibes. I don't understand what you base your statement on that they are probably enamored of money and fame. They have spoken about educating folks about the real lives of little people, and inspiring little people. How many little person doctors do you know? If they felt for a moment that Will and Zoey were being harmed in any way, they would pull the plug. Cynicism is not warranted in their case. Yes, I am a Little Couple leghumper and proud of it! Bill and Jen have faced real issues, with her diagnosis of cancer right when Zoey's adoption was being finalized, and Bill's surgery. All of this was faced with dignity and strength, polar opposite of the Duggars. I'll stop here.

I haven't seen the show very often, but the kids are adorable and their parents seem like good people.

But kids don't belong on reality TV.  Period.  They can't consent. It's not natural. And it's work, especially when they get a little older and things get more and more scripted as the spontaneity fades.  It can potentially impact their future lives because the videos will be around forever.  They are still little now, but if the show is still on when they start school they may find the attention distracting or embarrassing.  

From the Loud family in the 70's to the Roloffs, the Boo Boo's, the Gosselins, the Duggars and every other "successful" reality show family in between, I can't think of a single one that hasn't eventually been damaged or destroyed by exposing their lives to the cameras.  

"Television ate my family."  Lance Loud, the first ever reality show "star". 

[Snarkylark]

Yes, Bill and Jen have their kids on TV. But, they had their show before their children, not because of them. Minor difference, maybe. But I don't feel they are out to make $$$ off the backs of their children as much as Duggars, Gosselins. They were pretty successful before TLC. 

[SassyPants]

2 minutes ago, Snarkylark said:

Yes, Bill and Jen have their kids on TV. But, they had their show before their children, not because of them. Minor difference, maybe. But I don't feel they are out to make $$$ off the backs of their children as much as Duggars, Gosselins. They were pretty successful before TLC. 

And they would be successful WITHOUT the children. A neonatologist and business owner very likely would be succesful , no matter their stature or # of children,