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Jill & Jessa Special, Sunday, December 20


Coconut Flan

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13 hours ago, Tikobaby said:

Florida did not expand Medicaid. I don't make enough at my part-time job to qualify for "Obamacare".  A few years back, I applied for Medicaid thinking that my low income would surely qualify me, but just being low income does not make one eligible. You also have to be pregnant or have minor children or be officially disabled or be old enough to be considered "elderly".  Can't remember all the exact criteria, but I did not qualify despite my low income.  My health is not good and I can't work a full-time job...am pushing myself hard to be able to keep doing the PT one I've had for 12 years now.  I'm gladI that Obamacare has helped a lot of folks get insurance, but it can't help me.  I'm too poor to qualify for the program.

Oh, and almost none of the doctors in our area take Medicaid anyway. 

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for your situation - that truly sucks.  

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9 hours ago, isarhenne said:

I just finished watching Pride and Prejudice (1980 version of BBC) and switched directly to Jill and Jessa counting on episode 2. What a difference! I'm sorry, but they all sound really dumb and uneducated, even Jana. The whole time I was watching Jane Austen I thought that there are several similarities to the Quiverfull movement like stay at home daughters who's only goal is to marry well and produce heirs to their husbands. And rank seems to be very important to them, too, aka "fundie royalty" or not. I bet the Bates' and the Duggars think that they kind of live in a Jane Austen novel since they seem quite wealthy in comparison to other quiverfullers. The problem is: Jane Austen was  upper class, as well as all characters in her books. All the other women had to work their butts off, not only at home but in their husbands occupation, too. They all worked to get the money in. Stay at home mothers and daughters have always been and will always be an upper class phenomenon. The quiverfull movement simply cannot work only because of that. There are others reasons, but this is also one.

The women in Austen's novels are living in a pre-industrial society and the average housewife of the middle-class and gentry (the classes about which Austen wrote) had a lot of work to do.  Besides running the house, most ladies in the country also supervised the poultry and the dairy and the canning and distilling. They were always sewing and mending.  Those women worked.  Though the more affluent had many servants, they still had to supervise and give instructions and make decisions.  There are some idle fine ladies in Austen but they are all criticized in the novels.

The "stay at home mother" is a twentieth century term.  It is not relevant to the world that Austen writes about.  The focus in Austen is not on mother and children but on relationships between men and women, and courtship in the traditional sense of the word.  (Courtship in Austen's time meant the man "courting" the woman and the woman "being courted."  Because of its association with the tradition of courtly love--among other thing--the convention was that the man is seeking favor with the woman.  In Austen, it is rarely the case that the man gets permission to court from the parent/guardian before courting, and most of the time the man proposes to the woman before obtaining the father's consent.)   Austen's novels are about finding the right life partner. 

The Duggars live in a post-industrial society where the norm is for both men and women to work outside the home.  In their apparent rejection of "secular" society, they are picking and choosing what they like from the idealized past, but they are not producing their own foods or clothing and they certainly have lost touch with the importance of men having "an occupation" as well as an income, which is a major issue in Austen and even more so with writers of the Victoran period.  Their obsession with large families is very different from the way large families are seen as expensive and perhaps depriving some children from attention. (Austen herself was one of two daughters in a family of seven.)

But for me, the main difference between characters in Jane Austen novels or the movies inspired by them and the Duggar world is that education and clarity of expression are strong positive values in the Austen world, while in the Duggar world, ignorance reigns supreme.

I could see Mr. Collins fitting in very well with the Duggars though.  :kitty-wink:

 

5 hours ago, isarhenne said:

when they showed Jill and Derick in  Guatemala I thought that everything looked well groomed and nice, the streets where clean, houses looked nice, the people too. What are they doing there? It doesn't look more dangerous than any other city or village in the western world...in fact, it looked less dangerous than most cities I've been to. It really has the feel of a relaxed , tranquil language vacation.

So weird that they think people need help there just because of their catholic faith. I mean , most of these houses looked better furnished (inside and out) than most people would dream to own in their lifetime. What are they thinking?

 

They are in a tourist area.

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Ok sorry for the out of the blue question but this is a question I've had on my mind and personal events drive it home. Put yourself in Jana, Jinger, or Joy's shoes. Having not been exposed to R rated movies, mainstream culture, porn, or even real sex education, they have to be curious/scared/intimidated about what sex is like. When you were a teen and the first of your friends starting having sex, did you look at them differently (if you weren't the first one)? Do you think they felt weird about Jill and Jessa having done something so taboo and mysterious? Do you think they asked Jill what it was like when it first happened? Same thing with the pregnancies. Do you think it was kind of existential for them to have a sister that was as sheltered as they are, now experiencing something so real? So I ask because 1. I've been wondering this. 2. I just found out that my younger brother is expecting. (OMFG.) He got married before me. It was weird. Now this. Hella weird. I'm single, 35, and living with my parents. (Life doesn't turn out how you plan, no matter what you do.) Anyway, so I would really like to hear someone's thoughts on this - if you've wondered the same thing about the SAHDs, or if you've experienced something similar.

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36 minutes ago, Cerealgirl said:

 Do you think they felt weird about Jill and Jessa having done something so taboo and mysterious? Do you think they asked Jill what it was like when it first happened? Same thing with the pregnancies. Do you think it was kind of existential for them to have a sister that was as sheltered as they are, now experiencing something so real? So I ask because 1. I've been wondering this. 

I have wondered about this.  I think that's why I perceive a little strain between Jessa and Jinger. Even TLC puts the single sisters together in the TH segments instead of the usually pairings (even when talking about Joshly). There's also a slight attitude from Jill and Jessa  especially around their single sisters.  To keep the Austen analogy going--it reminds me of when Lydia gets married and announces that she now walks ahead of Jane and the others, as she's a married woman.  In another scene Kitty is bemused to think that she, the youngest, has done something her sisters haven't.

Follow up question:  What/when did the girls learn anything about sex?  I would think that Jana and Jill had to have some anatomy/physiology information before pursing their "careers' as midwife/doula, but do they actually know about sex or about fertilization and pregnancy? I recall the pathetically staged conversation between JB and Joshley prior to the wedding--obviously we now know that Joshley was slightly more clued in than JB would have led us to believe.  With JB and DQ humping like bunnies all their lives, they had to have overheard something or at least been curious about the process that kept mom knocked up.

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To keep the Austen analogy going--it reminds me of when Lydia gets married and announces that she now walks ahead of Jane and the others, as she's a married woman.  In another scene Kitty is bemused to think that she, the youngest, has done something her sisters haven't.

Follow up question:  What/when did the girls learn anything about sex?

I never read Jane Austen but that's exactly what I mean. And I read a Michelle quote recently where she said when one of girls turns 11 (I think) she takes them to a special lunch and they have a "special" conversation. I mean, how much you think they're going to learn about the actual act other than flowery fundie phrases like a couple's "special time"?

-_-

@mothership funny you mention a strain between Jinger and Jessa. When they were having the car ride conversation to go shopping for the chair, that's when I was looking at Jinger wondering if she was experiencing that weirdness I'm talking about. It had to be awkward.

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23 minutes ago, Mothership said:

 

 To keep the Austen analogy going--it reminds me of when Lydia gets married and announces that she now walks ahead of Jane and the others, as she's a married woman.  In another scene Kitty is bemused to think that she, the youngest, has done something her sisters haven't.

Follow up question:  What/when did the girls learn anything about sex?  I would think that Jana and Jill had to have some anatomy/physiology information before pursing their "careers' as midwife/doula, but do they actually know about sex or about fertilization and pregnancy? I recall the pathetically staged conversation between JB and Joshley prior to the wedding--obviously we now know that Joshley was slightly more clued in than JB would have led us to believe.  With JB and DQ humping like bunnies all their lives, they had to have overheard something or at least been curious about the process that kept mom knocked up.

 Just want to point out that in Pride and Prejudice Lydia is acting superior because she is married, not because she had sex.  

As for the Duggar girls' sex education, I bet they got the minimal information about reproduction and a lot of warnings about male sexual desire and defrauding. And they know a lot about gestation. 

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1 hour ago, Cerealgirl said:

@mothership funny you mention a strain between Jinger and Jessa. When they were having the car ride conversation to go shopping for the chair, that's when I was looking at Jinger wondering if she was experiencing that weirdness I'm talking about. It had to be awkward.

It is not unusual for good friends or siblings to feel "left behind" when one enters a new stage of life before the other.  I remember when I was 12 and my best friend had her first boyfriend. Even after they broke up, our friendship was never the same.  I don't think they did more than hold hands and maybe a closed-lip kiss, but she Had a Boyfriend. .  Years later, at 19, another friend had to get married because she was pregnant.  I felt less distanced by the fact that she had had sex (I was still a virgin but many of my college friends were not) than that she was pregnant.  It is an odd feeling when someone your age or younger starts reproducing before you are ready for that life stage.   Now I wonder what it feels like to have grandkids and if I will ever know.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Duggar girls feel more or less close to each other based on the experiences they are going through.  It can feel weird indeed.

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36 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

As for the Duggar girls' sex education, I bet they got the minimal information about reproduction and a lot of warnings about male sexual desire and defrauding.

Maybe they got the illustrations from "Saved", with no genitals and an explanation that Christians "don't get jiggy until marriage" (or something like that) from a hip pastor.

Oh, wait, it's homeschool at the Duggars. Maybe no illustrations of naked bodies, even without genitals. The kids might see a knee or a chest!

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I wonder too. Do Jana, Joy, Jinger ask Jessa and Jill what it's like? I remember being a teen still a virgin terrified of sex. Then I found out my best friend lost his v card. I asked him a ton of questions. I also asked his gf questions. I wonder if seeing Jill and Jessa experiencing difficult child births will prevent the others from having kids? Maybe not get married or be married virgins.

 

Maybe the virgin kids aren't permitted to talk to the non virgin kids since it might sexually arouse them. Fundie logic. 

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I can't help but think they probably tend to limit their time with the unmarrieds, because in their world the singles are still essentially children and the couples are now adults. I assume this is why Jinger(?) said its been so long since she's seen Jessa, despite the fact that they live close together and neither of them has anything else to do with their time besides hang out together, they don't because Jessa is a married woman who must be at home appeasing her unemployed husband and Jinger is a child and must stay at home tending her parents and siblings

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On 12/23/2015 at 1:55 PM, luxfilia said:

Not everyone in my family is like that, but I am just not a touchy-feely person.

I respect this. I am the opposite, very touchy feely, but I always ask before hugging (and none of that side hug foolishness for me) unless at church. We are a hugging church. My guy is touchy feely too, we are a match. I am a tactile person. We need more hugging in this world, in my humble opinion.

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3 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I respect this. I am the opposite, very touchy feely, but I always ask before hugging (and none of that side hug foolishness for me) unless at church. We are a hugging church. My guy is touchy feely too, we are a match. I am a tactile person. We need more hugging in this world, in my humble opinion.

I'm super touchy feely and I come from a family that is.  I have friends that throw out the "don't touch me" vibes big time.  I've ended up having conversations with several of them about it, just so I knew where they stood on things.

As far as needing more hugging in this world?  Totally agree.

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Since Bin and Jes don't have jobs, I hate to see what the tax payers are going to be responsible for with her little ambulance ride and blood transfusion. 

I for one wouldn't care. Everyone deserves access to medical care, even ass backward, batshit crazy fundies.

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29 minutes ago, bashfulpixie said:

I'm super touchy feely and I come from a family that is.  I have friends that throw out the "don't touch me" vibes big time.  I've ended up having conversations with several of them about it, just so I knew where they stood on things.

As far as needing more hugging in this world?  Totally agree.

Okay so I have a very touchy family but I am not. I wish I was a warm fuzzy person but I can't help it. I was born flinchy and uncomfortable with a giant personal space bubble. 

 

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My family is not very touchy feely. We love each other, but we are not a huggy people. My brother likes to hug now but he's a foot taller than me and about 60 lbs heavier - so when he hugs I feel like I am getting smothered.  I don't care for it. 

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2 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I for one wouldn't care. Everyone deserves access to medical care, even ass backward, batshit crazy fundies.

I agree. However, all of that bleeding the beast talk really pisses me off. There isn't so much social and health service money floating around that anyone can just waste it. People who legitimately need help sometimes have to do without because of god damned grifters (often so called Christians).

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On December 26, 2015 at 10:23 PM, Daisy0322 said:

A little off topic but Derek is looking hella rough. Is that just because of the surgery recovery or what? 

Wasn't that done soon after Izzy's birth? May-ish/June-ish? Six or seven months seems to be more than ample time to recover, at least to where he no longer looks like death warmed over.

He was cute in that lean and lanky all American boy way, but I agree, he looks very unhealthy, and has become gaunt and hollow eyed. I'm thinking, in addition to all the stress of the past year, including possible worries about his mother's health, his diet isn't the best. Apart from whatever pain he endured following the surgery, his diet might not be helping him, any.

 

 

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On 23 December 2015 at 4:38 PM, mebeforee said:

 

I don't understand why Anna couldn't at least stay in their 'guest house' (Ben's old digs.) At least she'd have some privacy there, and would be close to her in-laws and able to rely on their support. If space was an issue her kids could stay in the TTH, which would be less strange and more like a sleepover to them. But a grown, married woman with four children staying in a huge dormitory where the youngest sister-in-law is five years old?? (eta: maybe six now? Idk. The point stands!) I don't understand why she'd agree to being in such an exposed environment, she has no privacy at a time that must be extraordinarily difficult for her. How can she process and work through her feelings when she's surrounded by people and children at all times?

Especially now they have the Dowell House too...

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To comment on the recent pictures they posted, I don't think Jill and Derrick are abusive. I think they thought it was funny for some reason. Clearly, it's not but for some reason, I think they thought the public would have a giggle over it. Also, IMO, Derrick should seek out a 2nd opinion on how he is healing. I don't think anything is medically wrong, but I think he could have healed, cosmetically, in a way that has caused a distortion of his features. He should get the opinion of a plastic surgeon that is also trained in oral maxillofacial surgery. I think he is growing out a mustache and beard to hide it because he probably feels pretty insecure about this.  Also, Jill or whoever is making his meals, needs to load him up with some peanut butter, avocado, hummus, nuts, protein shakes, and extra cream on the side.  He should drink a shake with each of his meals. He should have gained a healthy amount of weight back before trapezing around in another country.

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1 hour ago, luv2laugh said:

To comment on the recent pictures they posted, I don't think Jill and Derrick are abusive. I think they thought it was funny for some reason. Clearly, it's not but for some reason, I think they thought the public would have a giggle over it. Also, IMO, Derrick should seek out a 2nd opinion on how he is healing. I don't think anything is medically wrong, but I think he could have healed, cosmetically, in a way that has caused a distortion of his features. He should get the opinion of a plastic surgeon that is also trained in oral maxillofacial surgery. I think he is growing out a mustache and beard to hide it because he probably feels pretty insecure about this.  Also, Jill or whoever is making his meals, needs to load him up with some peanut butter, avocado, hummus, nuts, protein shakes, and extra cream on the side.  He should drink a shake with each of his meals. He should have gained a healthy amount of weight back before trapezing around in another country.

I don't get any indication of this at all - he's constantly posting photos with a beaming smile.  Someone who's insecure about their looks would refuse to have a photo taken and probably wouldn't be smiling.  

I doubt the surgery was mandatory unless as other have said he was in major pain due to TMJ or something similar.  He should have just had his teeth straightened and stopped there.

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