Jill & Jessa Special, Sunday, December 20

[Jana814]

I have noticed when it comes to child stars who turn out ok is if they come from a stable background as Mayam Bialak did.  Some of the older child stars were not so good later on did not come from stable backgrounds some of them had to support their families because the parent didn't work. Mayam's parents never treated her as a bread winner the money she made as a kid funded her whole education  

[mebeforee]

I don't understand why Anna couldn't at least stay in their 'guest house' (Ben's old digs.) At least she'd have some privacy there, and would be close to her in-laws and able to rely on their support. If space was an issue her kids could stay in the TTH, which would be less strange and more like a sleepover to them. But a grown, married woman with four children staying in a huge dormitory where the youngest sister-in-law is five years old?? (eta: maybe six now? Idk. The point stands!) I don't understand why she'd agree to being in such an exposed environment, she has no privacy at a time that must be extraordinarily difficult for her. How can she process and work through her feelings when she's surrounded by people and children at all times?

[JenniferJuniper]

1 minute ago, Jana814 said:

I have noticed when it comes to child stars to turn out ok is if they come from a stable background as Mayiam Bialak did.  Some of the older child stars were not so good later on did not come from stable backgrounds some of them had to support their families because the parent didn't work. 

True, but there's a continuum of "stable".  Most of us grew up in households that were at least partially dysfunctional.

And I'd argue that reality show kids grow up in unstable environments by default.

[pamplemousse]

25 minutes ago, mebeforee said:

 

I don't understand why Anna couldn't at least stay in their 'guest house' (Ben's old digs.) At least she'd have some privacy there, and would be close to her in-laws and able to rely on their support. If space was an issue her kids could stay in the TTH, which would be less strange and more like a sleepover to them. But a grown, married woman with four children staying in a huge dormitory where the youngest sister-in-law is five years old?? (eta: maybe six now? Idk. The point stands!) I don't understand why she'd agree to being in such an exposed environment, she has no privacy at a time that must be extraordinarily difficult for her. How can she process and work through her feelings when she's surrounded by people and children at all times?

My guess is that Boob and J'Chelle, um, persuaded Anna to stay in the TTH with everyone around her precisely so she couldn't have the peace and quiet that could help her to process and work through her feelings. Staying in the "guest house" and having quiet time might allow her to do that...and maybe come to the conclusion that leaving might be a good idea.  Heaven forbid she might do anything other than stay with Josh and be part of any "redemption tour" that Josh and JB&M would orchestrate!

[nst]

Did anyone else have an extended version of Sunday's episode tonight's?

i did here in Maui

jessa  and Ben taking photos and going on and about photos

[bella8050]

2 hours ago, Kittikatz said:

I'm with you on this. There seem to be a large percentage of child stars who have some fairly massive meltdowns and/or crack-ups, and even more who seem to be, at best, coasting along and underachieving  in the Hollywood Z list. But there is a critcal difference between child tv/movie stars and children in reality shows, and that main difference is that the line between work and personal is almost unavoidably blurred. Child actors know that when they go on set, it is pretend. They go to a studio, have makeup, costume, set/green screen, acting coaches and a script that must be followed. Despite this, many have rocky transitions to adulthood, and fail to thrive in the real world...

Child reality stars have none of those cues to aid in differentiation between reality and fantasy, there just isnt that visible demarkation or much psycological boundaries in reality tv, and I doubt very much that children who are living in a very grey "your lives are our entertainment" reality tv environment are fully capible of comprehending that fantasy/reality  line or its importance to their overall well-being. One may hope that good parents will make intelligent decisions on the part of their children, but this is a new field -  one with few legal protections available for children in this situation, and little practical guidance available for their guardians. This fluid/wild west environment could easily mean that even intellegent  parents with the best of intentions could get caught up in blurred lines of their own and make a serious misstep that could have lasting consequences for their children. The newness of this style of show means that there are not many examples either way with how this group of Child performers will do in the future, so time will tell. But it strikes me as a costly experiment.

I think adults can suffer the same loss of boundaries when they go into reality tv world. I remember Nick Lachey saying awhile back that after he and Jessica Simpson started doing Newlyweds, things changed in the house even when the cameras weren't there...like they still fell into their personas from the show and that is part of what led to them splitting (or at least splitting so fast).

 

 

[mebeforee]

25 minutes ago, mebeforee said:  

I don't understand why Anna couldn't at least stay in their 'guest house' (Ben's old digs.) At least she'd have some privacy there, and would be close to her in-laws and able to rely on their support. If space was an issue her kids could stay in the TTH, which would be less strange and more like a sleepover to them. But a grown, married woman with four children staying in a huge dormitory where the youngest sister-in-law is five years old?? (eta: maybe six now? Idk. The point stands!) I don't understand why she'd agree to being in such an exposed environment, she has no privacy at a time that must be extraordinarily difficult for her. How can she process and work through her feelings when she's surrounded by people and children at all times?

My guess is that Boob and J'Chelle, um, persuaded Anna to stay in the TTH with everyone around her precisely so she couldn't have the peace and quiet that could help her to process and work through her feelings. Staying in the "guest house" and having quiet time might allow her to do that...and maybe come to the conclusion that leaving might be a good idea.  Heaven forbid she might do anything other than stay with Josh and be part of any "redemption tour" that Josh and JB&M would orchestrate!

I just wish it didn't seem so blatant and shameless on their part. I knew they'd be trying to keep her in place so that Josh wouldn't have to worry about his marriage much upon getting home. I knew they would do everything they could to preserve the family brand and keep her part of it. But it's so overt!

Obviously what would be best for her at this time is some privacy and perhaps family counseling to help her understand what her options are, and how to most effectively communicate and achieve her goals in their marriage. Clearly the family counseling can't happen with Josh sequestered in Bible rehab, but I still wish they'd been aware enough to realize that regardless of their belief system, she needs an advocate to look out for her and prevent all the blame from laying on her shoulders. This culture always blames the women, and even though they're being extremely critical of Josh's terrible choices, she is probably still carrying that self blame. She needs to be able to talk about it with someone not directly influenced by the scandals. Christian counseling or not, she needs an objective party to work through it with!

It seems so obviously manipulative, I just don't understand how they could prioritize things this way. They're basically showing that they would rather force her to promote their family business than allow she or their son to have any meaningful recovery from the relationship-shattering thing he did.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I just came up with another name for the (inevitable) continuing specials about this family: 18 Kids, Not Counting the Bad Seed

If they wind up doing a special for repentant Joshley's return (Jeebus Forbid), I can already hear the Prodigal Son references from other family members. Ugh.

[SilverBeach]

My last comment about The Little Couple. I appreciate the concerns regarding children on TV (although there will always be child actors and actresses). I am not saying those concerns have absolutely no validity. I am saying that in the specific case of Bill and Jen Klein, those concerns are unwarranted.  I am not generalizing. And I will be front and center for the new episode on January 5. Everybody be safe and enjoy this season with your families and friends, or with yourself! I am going to bake my all butter poundcake that I have been making for 30 years. Nothing s better with coffee.

[Drala]

12 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

Rerun of the second episode on now on TLC for those who missed it or just want some extra snark.

Or a nap! zzzzz....

[Drala]

6 hours ago, mebeforee said:

It seems so obviously manipulative, I just don't understand how they could prioritize things this way. They're basically showing that they would rather force her to promote their family business than allow she or their son to have any meaningful recovery from the relationship-shattering thing he did.

Something Anna said on the show that struck me had to do with her hope/prayer that her marriage be restored.  I later googled "marriage restoration" because it seemed like a specific thing in Anna's mind.  Turns out there are fundie marriage restoration ministries.  One website said a "restored" relationship takes about two years of healing activity.  Maybe Anna is hoping that she and Josh will get that sort of counseling after he gets out of Jesus Jail.  Question is, will they ever go outside the Gothard fold for help?  

[Buzzard]

7 hours ago, mebeforee said:

I just wish it didn't seem so blatant and shameless on their part. I knew they'd be trying to keep her in place so that Josh wouldn't have to worry about his marriage much upon getting home. I knew they would do everything they could to preserve the family brand and keep her part of it. But it's so overt!

Obviously what would be best for her at this time is some privacy and perhaps family counseling to help her understand what her options are, and how to most effectively communicate and achieve her goals in their marriage. Clearly the family counseling can't happen with Josh sequestered in Bible rehab, but I still wish they'd been aware enough to realize that regardless of their belief system, she needs an advocate to look out for her and prevent all the blame from laying on her shoulders. This culture always blames the women, and even though they're being extremely critical of Josh's terrible choices, she is probably still carrying that self blame. She needs to be able to talk about it with someone not directly influenced by the scandals. Christian counseling or not, she needs an objective party to work through it with!

It seems so obviously manipulative, I just don't understand how they could prioritize things this way. They're basically showing that they would rather force her to promote their family business than allow she or their son to have any meaningful recovery from the relationship-shattering thing he did.

I dont think Anna is the problem.  I think she has mainlined the kool aid and is dutifully accepting her role as doormat.  Josh is the rogue Duggar.

My theory is that Josh is in Jesus Jail because he is considering letting his freak flag continue to fly.  He's done with the party line, and wants to break free.  Anna and the M'kids are sequestered on the compound 1) To keep them from cameras and 2) to remind Josh that he cannot have his family without his wife and children.  THEY are not in violation of Duggardom, HE is.  

Josh has nowhere to go.  His house was transferred to a shell corporation, he has no other home.  His wife and children are at the TTH so he cannot go "home" without seeing them.  If they were at the pool house he theoretically could avoid them and camp out in the boy's dorm.  He has no job, no resources, and I highly doubt any fundie family would take him in and defy boob. He has no choice but to comply.

Josh will remain in brainwashville until he accepts that the Gothard way is the ONLY way.  He will stop discussing those horrible worldly things like Victoria Secret catalogs.  He will begin to pen his book about redemption and God's love.  Only then will he be permitted back with his wife and children, under supervision, and eventually back out to independence.  

 

[SassyPants]

Josh and Anna need to pen the book, break free and move away. It is their only real hope of marriage restoration. I doubt that it will happen, but it needs to.

Josh could tell all about what really went on in that 1200 square foot home where he lived with his 14 other sibs as his parents humped like rabbits. Josh was 17 when they moved out of that home in 2005.

People would buy that book. Think of all the tidbits ala Jill's disclosure of eating in the bathroom, so that she'd get some food for herself.

[Becket70]

While I agree children should not be a part of reality TV, I also admit that I am totally enamored of The Little Couple and their kids. I get special pleasure out of seeing how Zoey has progressed from that underweight, scared little child we first met.  But as long as we have been discussing the merits, or lack thereof, of children on TV, does that same thinking apply to some of the Food Network shows which showcase the families of their chefs/cooks?  I am thinking of The Pioneer Woman in particular because all of their kids seems to play a large role in her show.  My own thinking is biased because I long for the days when the Food Network was about preparing food without a story-line.  Now every other time I tune in somebody is yelling "five minutes!" in a contest. Anyway, it is too soon to know if being on television has harmed any of those kids but my gut tells me that it is not a healthy way to raise children just as it isn't healthy for the Duggar kids to raised on TV.  

Happy Holidays, Merry Christmas to all!

 

 

[EmCatlyn]

9 hours ago, VeryNikeSeamstress said:

I just came up with another name for the (inevitable) continuing specials about this family: 18 Kids, Not Counting the Bad Seed

If they wind up doing a special for repentant Joshley's return (Jeebus Forbid), I can already hear the Prodigal Son references from other family members. Ugh.

I think the "return of the Prodigal" is almost certain to happen unless TLC gives up on wooing back the sponsors.  Even then, it will be publicized on the media.

[Jucifer]

Just watched the second special on the TLC website because I hate myself, apparently.

It really bugs me how they use 'and' as filler while they're trying to think of what to say next. I hate it even more than the 'like' they're so fond of.

Anna is the worst. She pronounces it like 'eeeeeyan', the name Ian, or eeeeeyanT wth a big t sound at the end. Ugh. 

I really feel feel for her, though. Poor kid. I really think she's doing the best she can in her situation. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 12/22/2015 at 3:38 AM, missegeno said:

What makes you think Anna has such nice insurance? I had my doubts about her having insurance at all, let alone one with mental health coverage.

I'm sure they had insurance when Joshy was working for that hate group but unless he cobra'd I'm sure they don't anymore.  I'm fairly certain that NONE of the Duggar's have insurance.  Just another reason to have unattended home births, wait I think Der was still working for Wal Mart when Iddy was born, so the c/section was mostly paid for by insurance.  Since Bin and Jes don't have jobs, I hate to see what the tax payers are going to be responsible for with her little ambulance ride and blood transfusion. 

[EmmieJ]

5 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

My last comment about The Little Couple. I appreciate the concerns regarding children on TV (although there will always be child actors and actresses). I am not saying those concerns have absolutely no validity. I am saying that in the specific case of Bill and Jen Klein, those concerns are unwarranted.  I am not generalizing. And I will be front and center for the new episode on January 5. Everybody be safe and enjoy this season with your families and friends, or with yourself! I am going to bake my all butter poundcake that I have been making for 30 years. Nothing s better with coffee.

You cannot be certain that there will be zero fallout for the Kleins' children, and neither can I be certain that there will be negative repercussions.  It's the uncertainty that bothers me.  Evidence already suggests that participating on reality tv has had negative impact on both children and adults.  In this case, I hope you are right and I am wrong, but only time will tell.

The best of holiday wishes to you and your family.  Enjoy the butter poundcake
 

On the subject of the thread - I was flipping around last night with not much on tv and a re-run of the 2nd episode was running, so I watched part of it.  I think Anna is the most lovely of the Duggar women (well, she's Duggar by marriage).  She also seemed the most genuine. 

Is it just me, or does Jill take every opportunity to pass off Izzy to someone else?  I saw Joy holding him, playing with him, and giving him a kiss on his forehead.  But when Jill holds Izzy, it's often with him turned outward, away from her.  It's so contrary to how I recall holding my son when he was little.  It's just off-putting to see.

[mrs]

 

IIRC Michelle, Jim Bob and the minor kids had(may still have) health insurance.  They wrote about it in their book "A Love that Multiplies".http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2011/08/a-love-that-multiplies-the-duggars-new-book/

 

 

 

[EmmieJ]

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

...e accepts that the Gothard way is the ONLY way.  He will stop discussing those horrible worldly things like Victoria Secret catalogs.  He will begin to pen his book about redemption and God's love.  Only then will he be permitted back with his wife and children, under supervision, and eventually back out to independence.  

 

I agree 99% with what you said, except for the "eventually back out to independence."  Josh will likely never be freely given independence by his parents again.  If he wants independence, he'll have to forcefully take it somehow.

[JenniferJuniper]

4 minutes ago, EmmieJ said:

I agree 99% with what you said, except for the "eventually back out to independence."  Josh will likely never be freely given independence by his parents again.  If he wants independence, he'll have to forcefully take it somehow.

His character is too weak.  And he's lazy.   He'll try to follow Jim Bob's rules to the letter but he'll fail sooner or later.  The question is - what is Jim Bob willing to tolerate from his oldest?  And if a line is crossed (in his mind), how will Jim Bob deal with it?   He can't keep sending him to Jesus rehab and he's too old for Alert.

[Cerealgirl]

I'm sure they had insurance when Joshy was working for that hate group but unless he cobra'd I'm sure they don't anymore.  I'm fairly certain that NONE of the Duggar's have insurance.  Just another reason to have unattended home births, wait I think Der was still working for Wal Mart when Iddy was born, so the c/section was mostly paid for by insurance.  Since Bin and Jes don't have jobs, I hate to see what the tax payers are going to be responsible for with her little ambulance ride and blood transfusion. 

Red states have the highest rates of public assistance. I'm sure Bin and jessa are enjoying that nice Medicaid. Gotta love hypocrisy.

[jqlgoblue]

31 minutes ago, mrs said:

IIRC Michelle, Jim Bob and the minor kids had(may still have) health insurance.  They wrote about it in their book "A Love that Multiplies".http://www.patheos.com/blogs/nolongerquivering/2011/08/a-love-that-multiplies-the-duggars-new-book/

When their insurance went over to Obamacare, I highly doubt they decided to continue. There are probably ways to get insurance given they have a company, but hard to say who'd be covered ... 25+ and not a true employee would not have coverage. 

[Cerealgirl]

When their insurance went over to Obamacare, I highly doubt they decided to continue. There are probably ways to get insurance given they have a company, but hard to say who'd be covered ... 25+ and not a true employee would not have coverage. 

Obamacare is not insurance. It's a marketplace for insurers. If they had private insurance prior then they would continue to have it. Actually it requires insurance companies to cover unemployed kids until age 26 so maybe that's how Jill and Jessa are covered. Idk if marriage disqualifies them from their parents' coverage.

[notfundy]

8 minutes ago, Cerealgirl said:

 

Obamacare is not insurance. It's a marketplace for insurers. If they had private insurance prior then they would continue to have it. Actually it requires insurance companies to cover unemployed kids until age 26 so maybe that's how Jill and Jessa are covered. Idk if marriage disqualifies them from their parents' coverage.

Just to clarify on that last point - marriage does not disquality those 26 and under from their parents' coverage....interesting provision of the Affordable Care Act (aka ObamaCare).     I suspect, however, that at least Bin and Jessa (and Spurgie) are on Medicaid.  Jill & family not so much since they're out of the country.   

Anyway the Seewalds would definitely qualify for Medicaid (due to no/low income - can't imagine JimBoob is paying his SIL a living wage!)

A branch of my husband's family is/are fundies, and very against the ebil gubberment in all cases  EXCEPT when it comes to health insurance.  Most of them do take advantage of Medicaid.  For the sake of their (many, many) children, I am happy about that but - OHHHHH -- the hypocrisy!