Jessa Duggar Seewald is Pregnant - Part 3

[Yoshimi]

It will never cease to amaze me that in a forum that swears up and down that they've totally against misogyny and patriarchy, members consistently trash the fundie women whi aren't all sweetness and light while praising the twits who's personalities are perfect for the fundie lifestyle. Jesus Fucking Christ, I'd laugh if Jessa or any of the Duggars got hacked, because I'm mean as hell and I don't waste compassion on fundamentalist assholes unless it involves death or serious injury, but wishing that on her specifically because she likes to take a lot of flattering selfless like every other girl her age who's into social media?

But sure, go ahead and claim that it's because of her obnoxious proselytizing. Right. Because it's not like Jill doesn't have the same evil beliefs or anything. Or that she's even worse than Jessa because she's off with an evangelizing organisation that takes horrible advantage of the poor instead of just running her mouth on instagram.

Ok.

Please take off your Blessa blinders because nowhere in my previous post did I say this. Read my statement again, more closely this time:

Jill has never used FB/social media to spread her hateful, religious doctrine like Jessa and Ben has. Which is where my comment about getting karmic justice partly came from.

Translation: Jill doesn't use social media to spout hate. Ben and Jessa does. Thus in their case, there something to be said about the very outlet they love using for evil being turned against them. You can call that karma, poetic justice, sweet irony, whatever.

So how do you turn that into me wanting Jessa to get hacked “specifically†because I don’t like her taking selfies??? Way to overgeneralize and twist my words.

Btw, where was all the moral outrage over the Benessa fan page, you know, the one that actually got hacked and started this discussion in the first place? It's funny how people can get all up in arms over one stupid, hypothetical comment (that wasn't meant to be serious) but a page gets hacked for reals and it's all shits and giggles - wow, isn't that so cool? Look, p0rn on the Benessa page, teehee!!!

Long story short, it's late and I’m way too tired to get into this ridiculous debate right now.

[Mama Mia]

Please take off your Blessa blinders because nowhere in my previous post did I say this. Read my statement again, more closely this time:

Translation: Jill doesn't use social media to spout hate. Ben and Jessa does. Thus in their case, there something to be said about the very outlet they love using for evil being turned against them. You can call that karma, poetic justice, sweet irony, whatever.

So how do you turn that into me wanting Jessa to get hacked “specifically†because I don’t like her taking selfies??? Way to overgeneralize and twist my words.

Btw, where was all the moral outrage over the Benessa fan page, you know, the one that actually got hacked and started this discussion in the first place? It's funny how people can get all up in arms over one stupid, hypothetical comment (that wasn't meant to be serious) but a page gets hacked for reals and it's all shits and giggles - wow, isn't that so cool? Look, p0rn on the Benessa page, teehee!!!

Long story short, it's late and I’m way too tired to get into this ridiculous debate right now.

Or making a statement that you hope someone's page gets hacked is just a stupid , childish statement - regardless of which Duggar it is.

[lascuba]

Please take off your Blessa blinders because nowhere in my previous post did I say this. Read my statement again, more closely this time:

Translation: Jill doesn't use social media to spout hate. Ben and Jessa does. Thus in their case, there something to be said about the very outlet they love using for evil being turned against them. You can call that karma, poetic justice, sweet irony, whatever.

So how do you turn that into me wanting Jessa to get hacked “specifically†because I don’t like her taking selfies??? Way to overgeneralize and twist my words.

Btw, where was all the moral outrage over the Benessa fan page, you know, the one that actually got hacked and started this discussion in the first place? It's funny how people can get all up in arms over one stupid, hypothetical comment (that wasn't meant to be serious) but a page gets hacked for reals and it's all shits and giggles - wow, isn't that so cool? Look, p0rn on the Benessa page, teehee!!!

Long story short, it's late and I’m way too tired to get into this ridiculous debate right now.

Nice try, but this was your original post where you said that you hoped she got hacked:

It was just a fan page so I don't really think it's a big deal. I'm sure there's dozens more of them out there. I would love it if someone could actually hack into Ben and Jessa's REAL Facebook accounts.

Anyway, I'm more surprised that no one has yet commented on the new photos on Benessa's website (unless it was discussed in another thread and I missed it). I guess it's supposed to be their "family album" but they should have called it what it really was, which is Blessa's Selfie Collection, Part 871567. I pretty much despise anyone who takes bathroom selfies so I feel like my previous reasons for disliking Jessa has been further validated. Does this girl do nothing but seek out mirrors all day so she could admire herself? She can't even wait until she gets home before she feels the need to strike a pose in a public restroom?

...and come to think of it, I find it very odd just how many solo selfies Jessa take in OTHER people homes. For example, there was the one bump shot she took in the girl's room at the TTH. And there was yet another selfie which many have speculated was taken in a closet at the Bateses' house. I don't know about most "normal" people, but when I'm a guest at someone's home, I'm usually there to hang out and spend actual quality time with that person. I don't "steal away" by myself to take a quick selfie in their bedroom. WTH? :cray-cray:

When called out on your shit you backtracked and pretended that it was about her hateful posts, but you spent two paragraphs ranting over selfies instead of gloom and doom stuff, which is a clear indication of what you think Jessa's greatest sins are.

And I find it hilarious that you accuse anyone of having blinders when you've come up with the most bizarre speculations to defend Jill's fuckery. I don't even like Jessa, I just think the reasons people here have for hating her over Jill and Jana are bullshit. Liking the ones who put up a perfectly sweet front while hating the one who has an attitude and is more honest than the rest about the hatefulness of their beliefs is all kinds of weird in a supposedly anti-fundamentalist forum. Who CARES how Jill does or doesn't use social media when you KNOW she believes everything Jessa does and is now actively "working" and soliciting funds to spread the same hateful messages to others in person. How is a blog post asking for money to go to another country to harass people any less hateful that Jessa's asinine bible quotes? How can anyone be so blinded by a "sweet" facade?"

[VelociRapture]

Nice try, but this was your original post where you said that you hoped she got hacked:

When called out on your shit you backtracked and pretended that it was about her hateful posts, but you spent two paragraphs ranting over selfies instead of gloom and doom stuff, which is a clear indication of what you think Jessa's greatest sins are.

And I find it hilarious that you accuse anyone of having blinders when you've come up with the most bizarre speculations to defend Jill's fuckery. I don't even like Jessa, I just think the reasons people here have for hating her over Jill and Jana are bullshit. Liking the ones who put up a perfectly sweet front while hating the one who has an attitude and is more honest than the rest about the hatefulness of their beliefs is all kinds of weird in a supposedly anti-fundamentalist forum. Who CARES how Jill does or doesn't use social media when you KNOW she believes everything Jessa does and is now actively "working" and soliciting funds to spread the same hateful messages to others in person. How is a blog post asking for money to go to another country to harass people any less hateful that Jessa's asinine bible quotes? How can anyone be so blinded by a "sweet" facade?"

I can't speak for anyone else. For me, I used to defend Jill more than the others because she was blasted A LOT for really stupid stuff (like the things I mentioned in another post) - it really bothers me how much hate she had directed at her for no real reason. If people targeted her for a legitimate reason (like Jessa spewing hate via social media) then that would have been understandable to me. The hate they got for minimizing sexual abuse was much more understandable to me.

I do like the fact that Jessa speaks her mind. I like that she feels confident sharing her opinions because, like you said, it's exactly the opposite of what she was raised to be. I appreciate that she doesn't always play by the Fundie Rulebook and I think she could have had huge potential to succeed had she been raised with different parents. I still think she's an asshole though because of her beliefs (and the beliefs her whole family holds; they're assholes too, but some are less assholey because they don't rant all over social media.)

And I've never understood why some posters are convinced Jana is so sweet and helpless and wants to be saved - same with Jinger, Joy, Josiah, and all the other favorites. She's probably a huge asshole in her own ways and we just don't know it because she doesn't have personal social media accounts.

Did any of that make sense? At all? My brain doesn't like working. :lol:

[Wingnut]

Nice try, but this was your original post where you said that you hoped she got hacked:

When called out on your shit you backtracked and pretended that it was about her hateful posts, but you spent two paragraphs ranting over selfies instead of gloom and doom stuff, which is a clear indication of what you think Jessa's greatest sins are.

And I find it hilarious that you accuse anyone of having blinders when you've come up with the most bizarre speculations to defend Jill's fuckery. I don't even like Jessa, I just think the reasons people here have for hating her over Jill and Jana are bullshit. Liking the ones who put up a perfectly sweet front while hating the one who has an attitude and is more honest than the rest about the hatefulness of their beliefs is all kinds of weird in a supposedly anti-fundamentalist forum. Who CARES how Jill does or doesn't use social media when you KNOW she believes everything Jessa does and is now actively "working" and soliciting funds to spread the same hateful messages to others in person. How is a blog post asking for money to go to another country to harass people any less hateful that Jessa's asinine bible quotes? How can anyone be so blinded by a "sweet" facade?"

^^^ that and

I made the comment about Karma. I do not know how old you are but my POV comes from being old enough to have a teen daughter. Her and her friends are always taking selfies. Do I like it? No. Is it part of their level of maturity? Yes.

That is how I see the eldest Duggar girls. Their maturity level has been stunted by the way they were raised.

My advice, FWIW, is if anyone's social media bothers you that much....stay off of it. Why waste your time and emotional energy on something that you know will piss you off? RL is out there and is a wonderful thing.

[lascuba]

I can't speak for anyone else. For me, I used to defend Jill more than the others because she was blasted A LOT for really stupid stuff (like the things I mentioned in another post) - it really bothers me how much hate she had directed at her for no real reason. If people targeted her for a legitimate reason (like Jessa spewing hate via social media) then that would have been understandable to me. The hate they got for minimizing sexual abuse was much more understandable to me.

I do like the fact that Jessa speaks her mind. I like that she feels confident sharing her opinions because, like you said, it's exactly the opposite of what she was raised to be. I appreciate that she doesn't always play by the Fundie Rulebook and I think she could have had huge potential to succeed had she been raised with different parents. I still think she's an asshole though because of her beliefs (and the beliefs her whole family holds; they're assholes too, but some are less assholey because they don't rant all over social media.)

And I've never understood why some posters are convinced Jana is so sweet and helpless and wants to be saved - same with Jinger, Joy, Josiah, and all the other favorites. She's probably a huge asshole in her own ways and we just don't know it because she doesn't have personal social media accounts.

Did any of that make sense? At all? My brain doesn't like working. :lol:

You absolutely make sense. I understand where you're coming from, but as someone who was here a bit longer than you my perception on the Jill hate is a lot different, because the overall consensus on Jill before she got engaged was overwhelmingly positive. Certain people love to complain about speculation here, and a lot of it is ridiculous, but those same people are perfectly ok with a lot of the weird pollyanna speculation people take part in when it comes to their favorites. With Jill it was:

1)Shutting Jinger down on tv for wanting to live in the city wasn't because Jill is a fanatical, judgemental control freak, it was because she was worried that Jinger would be punished by Jim Bob and Michelle for saying she prefers cities.

2) Jill studying "midwifery" via distance learning was a sign of rebellion and plans to leave the cult. She will totally leave home and study nursing as soon as she got her midwifery licence and an income.

3)Jill is only taking a break from midwifery training to plan her wedding. Getting engaged is such a big deal so of course she'd stop studying for a while, why would people just assume that she'd completely give up midwifery just because she's on the record as saying that midwifery was something to occupy her time until she got married?

Etc., etc., all of based on absolutely nothing but her having a "sweet" enthusiastic personality and being a good mom to her siblings, so of course she must be a great person who doesn't espouse the most vile of her family's beliefs. The postpartum body snarking and accusation of deliberately stealing Jessa's thunder are gross and stupid, but it's pretty recent and nothing compared to the misogynistic tone of the criticism Jessa gets for caring about her appearance and being an upfront asshole and instead sweetly sly like her sisters.

[Yoshimi]

WTF, I didn’t backtrack on anything. Is it not possible to have two completely different reasons for not liking someone? How does A = B?

My comment about “getting hacked†was in relation to the hypothetical, imaginary, fake, unlikely to happen idea of someone getting payback for their bad behavior on social media. Sorry I didn’t spell it outright in my initial post but then, I didn’t realize just how sensitive people would get and blow one tiny quote way out of proportion. The way people are overreacting it’s as if I actually started a crusade to take over cyberstalking. Really? Of all the truly disgusting, offensive, irrational things that’s been said on this board, THIS is what make people respond like they’re being personally victimized? People can’t take sarcasm these days? Especially when literally a few posts earlier because people were making fun of a Benessa FAN page getting hacked. I *personally* think it’ll be a much bigger deal if one of the official Duggar accounts got hacked rather than some random leghumper’s but hey, maybe that’s just me. Call me childish but at least I’m not a hypocrite.

YOU, lascuba, are the one who then lumped my views about selfies as *the* primary reason for wanting Jessa to get hacked. Umm no, that was a completely separate issue and I’m not sure how you could jump to that conclusion. Do you always look at the world in black and white? Because you seem to have this persecution complex where you think poor Blessa is getting picked on for not fitting into the perfect fundie mold. Life is not that simple. A person can view Jessa as “different†from her family (eh, not really) while still see her as arrogant, vain, ignorant, manipulative, cold, lazy, hypocritical, hateful, shallow…and so on…characteristics that can turn one off on ANYONE, not just fundie royalty. Just as one can see Jill as “sweet†but still find her needy, stupid, naive, desperate, etc.

You know who else takes a lot of selfies? Kim K. How is Jessa any less self-absorbed than THE queen of selfies? FTR, I’m in my 20s so I’m all too aware that I’m part of a generation that’s big on social media/selfies. And in general, I don’t have a problem with that. What I am tired of is seeing people who become so obsessed with social media/attention that it consumes their entire lives. I mean, I find it odd how people can mercilessly snark on Jill for being pininterest-y (another thing that’s huge in my generation) yet think it's “acceptable†for Jessa to upload hundreds of selfies with the sole intention of “Hey look at me!! Look at me!! Aren’t I puuurty?? Come on, validate me by giving me compliements!!†That’s just pathetic. I don’t care WHO you are. If my BFF of 20+ years tried to pull a similar selfie in a public restroom you can bet my ass I’d be judging her and I’d let her know it.

[lascuba]

:lol: You don't make a damn bit of sense and you trying to derail the discussion isn't helping. No one is overreacting and accusing you of staring a "cyberstalking" campaign. We are reacting to the words that you initially said, which was that she wished her real account was hacked because she takes a lot of selfies. And that the only conclusion one can come to, since you made zero mention any other reason in your original post, and once again you're ranting about Jessa's selfies. Even in a post insisting that selfies isn't the reason you feel that way, you have to rant about them. :lol: Sure, hate the selfie thing (though I don't see why it's so rage inducing--at most it deserves light mockery and eye-rolling like pinterest), but damn, girl, it's not that serious. Again, I personally don't care if any of their accounts get hacked, because fuck those people, but your reasoning is bullshit.

I mean, you go from this:

YOU, lascuba, are the one who then lumped my views about selfies as *the* primary reason for wanting Jessa to get hacked. Umm no, that was a completely separate issue and I’m not sure how you could jump to that conclusion.

To this:

You know who else takes a lot of selfies? Kim K. How is Jessa any less self-absorbed than THE queen of selfies? FTR, I’m in my 20s so I’m all too aware that I’m part of a generation that’s big on social media/selfies. And in general, I don’t have a problem with that. What I am tired of is seeing people who become so obsessed with social media/attention that it consumes their entire lives. I mean, I find it odd how people can mercilessly snark on Jill for being pininterest-y (another thing that’s huge in my generation) yet think it's “acceptable†for Jessa to upload hundreds of selfies with the sole intention of “Hey look at me!! Look at me!! Aren’t I puuurty?? Come on, validate me by giving me compliements!!†That’s just pathetic. I don’t care WHO you are. If my BFF of 20+ years tried to pull a similar selfie in a public restroom you can bet my ass I’d be judging her and I’d let her know it.

Yes, people are so stupid for questioning your reasoning.

And seriously, how do you, the biggest fangirl on this board, have the temerity of accusing anyone of liking someone too much? :wtf:

[princessmahina]

I really have no interest in getting into the current argument, but I will say this: I like that Jessa is totally open about what she believes. Personally, I think Jill is doing more harm than Jessa. Jill is the one who is actively trying to convert people in another country, using what are probably some less-than-great tactics. She seems like a sweetheart, but she still holds the same terrible beliefs. Jessa is just posting snarling wolf pictures and telling us all we're going to hell. Jill makes their lifestyle look awesome. Jessa shows more of the reality.

[Yoshimi]

We are reacting to the words that you initially said, which was that she wished her real account was hacked because she takes a lot of selfies.

Tell me exactly where I said this. Oh, that's right, I DIDN'T. :roll: Actually in my original post I didn’t really give an explanation because I was just joking around and didn’t think it needed one. I guess it was my (poor) attempt to join in on the light-hearted discussion about hacking that was already going on. I apologize if I missed some unwritten rule where it’s okay to make fun of a Duggar fan page being taken over by hackers but NOT okay to speculate on the karmic possibility of Benessa losing their FB page knowing all the crap they post on there. It’s one thing if people were offended by my joke because they felt I wasn’t taking the issue of cyberstalking seriously, which wasn’t my intention at all. To them, I sincerely apologize and I will try to be more mindful the next time. It’s not my fault that you immediately jumped to the wrong conclusions and even now continue to insist that my joke was REALLY about Jessa’s selfies despite me telling you otherwise.

Again, how hard is it to understand that I was talking about two different issues here (hacking & people who take selfies) that aren’t necessarily related? You’re right about one thing that my original post was more intended for me to mock Jessa’s ‘family’ album on their website. Which was more like a dozen random shots of her posing in a bathroom with no explanation whatsoever. Yeah, I’m such the evil bitch for pointing out how ridiculous and narcissistic that is. It's called SNARKING and yet you want to tell me I'm in some kind of rage-induced state because I dared to express a non-flattering opinion about your fave? (if you're going to call me out as a "fangirl" then I can do the exact same to you).

[VelociRapture]

You absolutely make sense. I understand where you're coming from, but as someone who was here a bit longer than you my perception on the Jill hate is a lot different, because the overall consensus on Jill before she got engaged was overwhelmingly positive. Certain people love to complain about speculation here, and a lot of it is ridiculous, but those same people are perfectly ok with a lot of the weird pollyanna speculation people take part in when it comes to their favorites. With Jill it was:

1)Shutting Jinger down on tv for wanting to live in the city wasn't because Jill is a fanatical, judgemental control freak, it was because she was worried that Jinger would be punished by Jim Bob and Michelle for saying she prefers cities.

2) Jill studying "midwifery" via distance learning was a sign of rebellion and plans to leave the cult. She will totally leave home and study nursing as soon as she got her midwifery licence and an income.

3)Jill is only taking a break from midwifery training to plan her wedding. Getting engaged is such a big deal so of course she'd stop studying for a while, why would people just assume that she'd completely give up midwifery just because she's on the record as saying that midwifery was something to occupy her time until she got married?

Etc., etc., all of based on absolutely nothing but her having a "sweet" enthusiastic personality and being a good mom to her siblings, so of course she must be a great person who doesn't espouse the most vile of her family's beliefs. The postpartum body snarking and accusation of deliberately stealing Jessa's thunder are gross and stupid, but it's pretty recent and nothing compared to the misogynistic tone of the criticism Jessa gets for caring about her appearance and being an upfront asshole and instead sweetly sly like her sisters.

Oh good! Glad I made sense! My brain hates working so I wasn't sure. :lol:

I think what you said is why it was so jarring. Jill literally went from beloved to a pariah overnight and a huge portion of the hate was about stuff that really didn't matter much.

I mean, this time last year people were still praising her and giving her the benefit of the doubt. Today? She's ripped to pieces for every single tiny decision she makes. It just strikes me as being such overkill- if people want to snark on her for preaching Jebus crap to innocent victims in Central America then that's fine; I completely agree with that. But snarking on her for not having a perfectly flat stomach seconds after having a c-section or claiming she was deliberately trying to suffocate her child in that sling because of PPD? Nope. Not ok. At all.

I'd say the same about any of the Duggar girls as well, including Jessa. If people snark on her for her ridiculous preaching on social media or for posting so many selfies that's fine. If people try to claim that her selfies absolutely 100% show she's an entitled, selfish, and spoiled brat - not ok. At the end of the day, they're humans. None of them are entirely good or entirely bad. Snark on the truly bad things.

(As for your last paragraph, I see comments like that about Jana constantly on here. I'm kind of dreading the day she gets married because of the complete reversal in sentiment that's going to happen here.)

[lascuba]

Oh good! Glad I made sense! My brain hates working so I wasn't sure. :lol:

I think what you said is why it was so jarring. Jill literally went from beloved to a pariah overnight and a huge portion of the hate was about stuff that really didn't matter much.

I mean, this time last year people were still praising her and giving her the benefit of the doubt. Today? She's ripped to pieces for every single tiny decision she makes. It just strikes me as being such overkill- if people want to snark on her for preaching Jebus crap to innocent victims in Central America then that's fine; I completely agree with that. But snarking on her for not having a perfectly flat stomach seconds after having a c-section or claiming she was deliberately trying to suffocate her child in that sling because of PPD? Nope. Not ok. At all.

I'd say the same about any of the Duggar girls as well, including Jessa. If people snark on her for her ridiculous preaching on social media or for posting so many selfies that's fine. If people try to claim that her selfies absolutely 100% show she's an entitled, selfish, and spoiled brat - not ok. At the end of the day, they're humans. None of them are entirely good or entirely bad. Snark on the truly bad things.

(As for your last paragraph, I see comments like that about Jana constantly on here. I'm kind of dreading the day she gets married because of the complete reversal in sentiment that's going to happen here.)

Oh, it will definitely happen. The only chance it won't is if there's a complete social media blackout on the relationship and the guy she marries is an unknown--that way people can still believe that she isn't as bad as her beliefs tell us she must be. That's what happened with Jill--people convinced themselves that she didn't really wasn't a true believe and that she has all these plans to escape, and when she got engaged and it became clear they were wrong about her, they flipped out and claimed that she had somehow changed, when really she was as annoying and obnoxious and fanatical as she had always been.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Jessa is not in the group photo at the baseball game posted by Furniture Joe, but she is in a pic posted by TheLoneHubert and to me, it looks like she is wearing capri pants. It's one of those collage pics so it is small and hard to tell. It COULD be a skirt that is bunched up weird. It is a private photo so I can't share it. Anyone else who is following him (he accepts anyone so go follow him) care to speculate? One of the Duggar fans should steal the pic and post it soon and then it will be public and we can discuss :P

[VelociRapture]

Jessa is not in the group photo at the baseball game posted by Furniture Joe, but she is in a pic posted by TheLoneHubert and to me, it looks like she is wearing capri pants. It's one of those collage pics so it is small and hard to tell. It COULD be a skirt that is bunched up weird. It is a private photo so I can't share it. Anyone else who is following him (he accepts anyone so go follow him) care to speculate? One of the Duggar fans should steal the pic and post it soon and then it will be public and we can discuss :P

I would follow, but I would never live it down if my family found out - the amount of teasing and mocking would be brutal! :lol:

I'll content myself with waiting to see what other people think.

[ClaraOswin]

I thought it looked like capri pants too. It almost looked like a capri jumpsuit to me but I doubt that...haha.

[Kira]

She's wearing Capri pants.

[CorruptionInc.]

She's wearing Capri pants.

I honestly think it's just a flowy skirt caught between her legs.

[VelociRapture]

I honestly think it's just a flowy skirt caught between her legs.

It's tough to tell because of the lighting, but I think you're right.

[Rachel333]

I think the difference between Jana and Jill and Jessa is that Jana hasn't been publicly saying obnoxious things the way Jill and Jessa have. Even before Jill was even courting people here found her annoying for that reason.

[Librul]

I don't think that the majority of people a few months ago thought Jill was a "sweetheart" or wonderful, etc. My sense is that a lot of people, myself included, thought she was a smug, self-righteous, narrow minded, uneducated fundamentalist with dangerous views and beliefs. What has changed is a large influx of posters who are fans or semi-fans, shocked by the molestation, but with a much more positive view of the young adult Duggars. I am not excited about Meredith's birth, Jessa's hair or Izzy's white skin and blue eyes. I think they are all toxic ....then and now.

[lascuba]

I don't think those are capris...the way the fabric is all bunched up at the side makes me think it's a skirt. Those would be some seriously baggy capris otherwise.

I don't think that the majority of people a few months ago thought Jill was a "sweetheart" or wonderful, etc. My sense is that a lot of people, myself included, thought she was a smug, self-righteous, narrow minded, uneducated fundamentalist with dangerous views and beliefs. What has changed is a large influx of posters who are fans or semi-fans, shocked by the molestation, but with a much more positive view of the young adult Duggars. I am not excited about Meredith's birth, Jessa's hair or Izzy's white skin and blue eyes. I think they are all toxic ....then and now.

I've always thought that of Jill, but I think we were in the minority. The positive speculation about her when she was "studying" midwifery especially was completely over-the-top.

[ClaraOswin]

Maybe they are gaucho pants. Ha!

[princessmahina]

I think that's a bunched up skirt too. If they're pants, they're really weird looking.

[ClaraOswin]

Yeah, probably a skirt or dress.

But it seriously reminds me of those weird jumpsuits with the baggy pants.

http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/ ... 2c_600.jpg

http://ak1.ostkcdn.com/images/products/ ... c1_600.jpg

[Guest]

I don't think those are capris...the way the fabric is all bunched up at the side makes me think it's a skirt. Those would be some seriously baggy capris otherwise.

I've always thought that of Jill, but I think we were in the minority. The positive speculation about her when she was "studying" midwifery especially was completely over-the-top.

I think a lot of people just want to have hope that they will ditch all of the crap their parents taught them. As soon as they get more publicity and it becomes clear that they haven't been dying to escape for years, we get frustrated.

I, for one, was cheering for Jill to pursue midwifery, something she was clearly passionate about, long-term and buck the homeschooling SAHM thing. Now that she has quit and is out saving people from the pope/devil, added to the fact that she had a baby less than a year after marriage and will likely have many more, I'm frustrated. She had a chance to get herself and her kids out and didn't take it.

I still have hope for Jessa (hell, I still have a little hope for Josh and Jill, I'm an eternal optimist) because I think she and Ben could likely grow out of their incredible arrogance. In fact, Jessa is the only one I can see doing a total 180 because of her stubbornness. Every step she takes in the opposite direction of that is frustrating.