Duggar Fox News Interviews - Mild, Inappropriate Lying

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I don't think they can ever just be a family. Well trained soldiers sure, but a family?

I agree. In the Jason falling into the pit episode, Jackson said that he didn't want Jason to die because he was his buddy. That phrasing, I think, really shows how detached they are from each other as a family unit. They work as a family within their buddy groups, but there isn't enough time or support to make those bonds exist outside the buddy group.

[DuggarWatch]

Time will tell if Josh's whole reputation and life are actually ruined. Sure, he'll never have the political career he was dreaming of, and he's been thoroughly shamed by this, but his own community seems quick to support him. If he chooses to remain within fundamentalism (and why wouldn't he? the outside world hates him, but his fundie friends are patting him on the back), I'm sure he'll be handed some kind of position and given some kind of influence. Look at Gothard, for God's sake. He's still running the show from behind the scenes. It's a sick, sick world they live in, and they reinforce that sickness at every turn.

I'm not so sure about that. The forgiveness card didn't work so well for Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Paul Crouch, etc.

Josh refused to be interviewed by the police in 2006. We don't know the conclusions in the Department of Human Services report and why Josh had to sue them in 2007. Plus, In Touch says it has more to reveal on the story.

Josh can't expect forgiveness from the family's fans until he comes clean with the full story. And, it wouldn't surprise me at all if more victims outside of the family don't come forward.

As for Gothard. he resigned from IBLP as soon as the sexual misconduct violations were revealed. According to Wikipedia: On June 17, 2014 IBLP issued a statement, summarizing the investigation conducted by "outside legal counsel". In that statement they made the claim that no criminal activity was uncovered, but that Bill Gothard had acted in an "inappropriate manner" so "is not permitted to serve in any counseling, leadership, or Board role within the IBLP ministry."

[SassyPants]

I'm not so sure about that. The forgiveness card didn't work so well for Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Paul Crouch, etc.

Josh refused to be interviewed by the police in 2006. We don't know the conclusions in the Department of Human Services report and why Josh had to sue them in 2007. Plus, In Touch says it has more to reveal on the story.

Josh can't expect forgiveness from the family's fans until he comes clean with the full story. And, it wouldn't surprise me at all if more victims outside of the family don't come forward.

As for Gothard. he resigned from IBLP as soon as the sexual misconduct violations were revealed. According to Wikipedia: On June 17, 2014 IBLP issued a statement, summarizing the investigation conducted by "outside legal counsel". In that statement they made the claim that no criminal activity was uncovered, but that Bill Gothard had acted in an "inappropriate manner" so "is not permitted to serve in any counseling, leadership, or Board role within the IBLP ministry."

Yep.

[justbecause]

I was thinking about all of the things that people wish had been permitted for the Duggar children... better/higher education, more freedom, less groupthink, more opportunities for the girls, no blanket training, things like that.

When the SHTF with Josh, we saw a darker side of things. We saw just how spectacularly BoobChelle had failed their children repeatedly.

I really, truly wish that they would now give their children this one thing: Their Privacy. Walk away from the so-called fame. Fulfill any remaining contracts, but then end it. At least commit to a very extended break for everyone. Let these kids grow up in peace. No more cameras and sound booms and THs. No more Very Special Episodes. Stop acting like a family and just be a family.

Even Jesus needed time alone in the garden to pray. Duggars, I think that you need that as well - some alone time. To pray. To re-evaluate. To return to actual, real reality. To ask yourself some really tough questions. To set new, healthy goals for yourselves and your family. To get a real, licensed counselor for individual and group counseling. Believe it or not, there are professional counselors who are also Christian (shocker!).

Jim Bob, Michelle... you can do it if you truly want to.

That's what JB & M are going to say they decided to do when their show doesn't get renewed. :liar:

[BlackSheep]

That's what JB & M are going to say they decided to do when their show doesn't get renewed. :liar:

You are right. Even as I typed that post, I knew that it couldn't happen, wouldn't happen. But you're right: it will if it serves JimBob's purposes and may keep the gravy train rolling into the station.

[elizasc]

We hope

[ApologistsBeDamned]

Yep.

I wonder if InTouch has the interview transcripts or even DVDs? And hiw those were redacted for minors?

Would be interesting to see JBMs interviews.

[JenniferJuniper]

I wonder if InTouch has the interview transcripts or even DVDs? And hiw those were redacted for minors?

Would be interesting to see JBMs interviews.

I doubt they were able to obtain these. A police report is public record. A full police investigation is not.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I doubt they were able to obtain these. A police report is public record. A full police investigation is not.

Actually under Arkansas law they are Public Records.

Act 93 of 1967

25-19-103. Definitions

(1) “Public records†means writings, recorded sounds, films, tapes, or data compilations in any form, required by law to be kept or otherwise kept, and which constitute a record of the performance or lack of performance of official functions which are or should be carried out by a public official or employee, a governmental agency, or any other agency wholly or partially supported by public funds or expending public funds. All records maintained in public offices or by public employees within the scope of their employment shall be presumed to be public records.<<<<<

The police summary clearly states DVDs anx transcripts are available for the various interviews. So it is possible they were obtained. Certainly under AR Fioa the police should have considered sending them and explained why.they did not provide them. That would be recorded to In Touch at least.

[singsingsing]

So you're telling me that interviews in which young children describe how they were sexually assaulted are public record?

Damn. That's just... damn. I have no words.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I doubt they were able to obtain these. A police report is public record. A full police investigation is not.

And you can request an entire investigation. It might get expensive for the copies and the size but it can be done and is covered under FOIA. Even on going investigations can to an extent be requested.

Police like to think they own the investigation but they don't.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

So you're telling me that interviews in which young children describe how they were sexually assaulted are public record?

Damn. That's just... damn. I have no words.

Police interviews, yes.

DHS or CPS or therapists interviews No.

This is why even victims should never ever talk to the police without a lawyer. Becuase a lawyer will protect you from not only saying things that can be used against you but from also saying things that aren't really the police business.

Just because there is a crime and the police are investigating DOES NOT mean you have to testify to police. Lawyers and court appointed therapists etc are the ones you should discuss this with. NOT POLICE.

I DOUBT police even asked for specifics in these cases because they are taught to quickly involve an advocate.from the family court for things like this. And those discussions are always private.

[singsingsing]

Police interviews, yes.

DHS or CPS or therapists interviews No.

This is why even victims should never ever talk to the police without a lawyer. Becuase a lawyer will protect you from not only saying things that can be used against you but from also saying things that aren't really the police business.

Just because there is a crime and the police are investigating DOES NOT mean you have to testify to police. Lawyers and court appointed therapists etc are the ones you should discuss this with. NOT POLICE.

I DOUBT police even asked for specifics in these cases because they are taught to quickly involve an advocate.from the family court for things like this. And those discussions are always private.

The specifics that were discussed were enough to make me shocked that the reports were released. I just... still cannot fathom how this stuff is public record. It's incredible to me. I don't look at this as the police being held accountable, I look at it as private citizens retaining their right to privacy. If they want to forfeit that right, fine - they can consent to the release of their information. But to have basically any and every contact with the police available for anyone who wants it, identifying information included? To me that's just scary. We're obviously coming at this from totally different perspectives. I can tell that you have no love for law enforcement, and that clearly our two countries do things very differently in this regard. I have nothing against America in general, but I'm feeling pretty grateful for the laws up here right now, to be honest. :shock:

[ApologistsBeDamned]

The specifics that were discussed were enough to make me shocked that the reports were released. I just... still cannot fathom how this stuff is public record. It's incredible to me. I don't look at this as the police being held accountable, I look at it as private citizens retaining their right to privacy. If they want to forfeit that right, fine - they can consent to the release of their information. But to have basically any and every contact with the police available for anyone who wants it, identifying information included? To me that's just scary. We're obviously coming at this from totally different perspectives. I can tell that you have no love for law enforcement, and that clearly our two countries do things very differently in this regard. I have nothing against America in general, but I'm feeling pretty grateful for the laws up here right now, to be honest. :shock:

Again it is simple really. You forfeit some of your rights to privacy when you speak on record to a public official. This is well laid out in our constitution, case law and legislation.

I realize they were children and that is why the court appoints guardian ad litems in such cases and why police shouldn't question children without them.

In general one should never talk to police. Rarely does anything good.come from it.

I think think this would be less.shocking to you if you just remember that in America we expect everyone to invoke their rights at all times starting at birth. People who wave their rights or allow their rights to be violated out of ignorance is seen as foolish and is no excuse.

It is harsh sometimes but it keeps people from misinterpreting who has what rights and when and using that as a legal standing.

We also only have individual rights in America and.not group rights. Even for.children. hence the appointment of a court guardian.

Edit ti add CHILD Abuse investigation records are usually completely sealed in most states. Only the victim, representatives, etc can access them.

In the duggar case it was an offence report only. Not a full abuse investigation and any DHS or CPS records are sealed anyway. If the Records are only of police initial interviews they most likely would nkt be indepth and would be appropriately redacted before release.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

FOIA LAWS are different in every State although there are federally constitutionally mandated requirements all states must meet.

Arkansas has a pretty broad FOIA that is actually very easily understood. some States are very complicated with exceptions and work arounds, etc...

Arkansas also has NO SPECIFIC exemption for child abuse records.

Meaning only those records which by state law are already sealed are exempt from records requests.

Other states have this automatic exemption. Jim Bob probably should have read the law. He was a state rep.

[RosyDaisy]

But I do believe that Josh has been punished for his crimes.

I disagree. He should have been served time in a juvenile facility and received mandatory counseling. Molesters come from all familial, socioeconomic, racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds. So, I don't think he's sorry, and I think there is the possibility there could be other victims.

[formergothardite]

I'm not so sure about that. The forgiveness card didn't work so well for Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Paul Crouch, etc.

Josh refused to be interviewed by the police in 2006. We don't know the conclusions in the Department of Human Services report and why Josh had to sue them in 2007. Plus, In Touch says it has more to reveal on the story.

Josh can't expect forgiveness from the family's fans until he comes clean with the full story. And, it wouldn't surprise me at all if more victims outside of the family don't come forward.

As for Gothard. he resigned from IBLP as soon as the sexual misconduct violations were revealed. According to Wikipedia: On June 17, 2014 IBLP issued a statement, summarizing the investigation conducted by "outside legal counsel". In that statement they made the claim that no criminal activity was uncovered, but that Bill Gothard had acted in an "inappropriate manner" so "is not permitted to serve in any counseling, leadership, or Board role within the IBLP ministry."

And you believe that? :lol: They put on a show of Bill not serving as leader to try to get former students to shut the fuck up about all the abuse in ATI, but since Gothard still has access to all the info of past and present IBLP/ATI families and he launch(and then pulled) a new website claiming he didn't actually do anything wrong, IMO Bill has just be running things from the shadows.

[nokidsmom]

Time will tell if Josh's whole reputation and life are actually ruined. Sure, he'll never have the political career he was dreaming of, and he's been thoroughly shamed by this, but his own community seems quick to support him. If he chooses to remain within fundamentalism (and why wouldn't he? the outside world hates him, but his fundie friends are patting him on the back), I'm sure he'll be handed some kind of position and given some kind of influence. Look at Gothard, for God's sake. He's still running the show from behind the scenes. It's a sick, sick world they live in, and they reinforce that sickness at every turn.

Agree, that he may stay within fundamentalism because his fellow fundies will cut him some slack as opposed to the rest of the world. He can easily say to himself, at least, that he was forgiven and that is all that matters, or something like that.

I can completely see him being hired by Gothard, who certainly knows a thing or two on how to survive in spite of scandal. Or he will work for JB, remaining in NWA because he will always have supporters there.

[lascuba]

FOIA LAWS are different in every State although there are federally constitutionally mandated requirements all states must meet.

Arkansas has a pretty broad FOIA that is actually very easily understood. some States are very complicated with exceptions and work arounds, etc...

Arkansas also has NO SPECIFIC exemption for child abuse records.

Meaning only those records which by state law are already sealed are exempt from records requests.

Other states have this automatic exemption. Jim Bob probably should have read the law. He was a state rep.

BOOM

[apple1]

And you believe that? :lol: They put on a show of Bill not serving as leader to try to get former students to shut the fuck up about all the abuse in ATI, but since Gothard still has access to all the info of past and present IBLP/ATI families and he launch(and then pulled) a new website claiming he didn't actually do anything wrong, IMO Bill has just be running things from the shadows.

Odd. Zebra #13 just posted the same ridiculousness in another thread that DuggarWatch posted in this thread. :roll:

Odd coincidence. :roll:

[formergothardite]

Odd. Zebra #13 just posted the same ridiculousness in another thread that DuggarWatch posted in this thread. :roll:

Odd coincidence. :roll:

I noticed that. What is with people actually believing that Gothard stepped down and is no longer in charge of anything that has to do with ATI/IBLP?

Also odd, just in the last week, my parents, who haven't been involved in ATI for years, have suddenly started getting emails and letters from the cult letting them know about up coming events. They haven't gotten anything from ATI in years and years. That combined with Gothard's new website makes me think that something is going on.

[apple1]

...What is with people actually believing that Gothard stepped down and is no longer in charge of anything that has to do with ATI/IBLP?

Also odd, just in the last week, my parents, who haven't been involved in ATI for years, have suddenly started getting emails and letters from the cult letting them know about up coming events. They haven't gotten anything from ATI in years and years. That combined with Gothard's new website makes me think that something is going on.

Yes. BG will never give up until he is in the grave.

As for the recent posts on FJ believing the ATI PR... makes me wonder if there is an intentional web presence, including FJ... Or maybe some people just have zero DISCERNMENT. (word use intentional :roll: )

[HarryPotterFan]

Yes. BG will never give up until he is in the grave.

As for the recent posts on FJ believing the ATI PR... makes me wonder if there is an intentional web presence, including FJ... Or maybe some people just have zero DISCERNMENT. (word use intentional :roll: )

Is ATI recruiting FJers now?

[mebeforee]

I also seem to recall some time in the 80s when Gothard was in hot water for something (I actually think it may have been similar accusations to what he was accused of this time, but without the permanence and networking abilities of the internet involved to collect all his crimes in one place where people will easily see what a terrible person he is and will leave a lasting mark on his reputation). He resigned for like a month before taking up his position again. I would be very surprised if he hadn't planned all along on making a comeback and for whatever reason thought it would be a good idea to begin around now (though quickly realized because of the added attention of the Duggar scandal, it was not a good time). Maybe he thought with people outside the cult looking more closely at those beliefs because of the Duggars, he could do some damage control by updating his website and all that to draw attention away from the Duggar crimes and at what ATI is "really" about, to paint an image of Josh as an anomaly rather than part of a rampant sexual harrassment/abuse/shame culture problem. Or perhaps thinking that people who already support the Duggars would be floating around looking for ways to be of help to them and that he could use the opportunity to catch them in his web. (Or else he's just an idiot who had no idea the Duggar scandal was taking place and thought no one would immediately notice he was changing his site in an effort to spin himself as a good guy again).

[VelociRapture]

I also seem to recall some time in the 80s when Gothard was in hot water for something (I actually think it may have been similar accusations to what he was accused of this time, but without the permanence and networking abilities of the internet involved to collect all his crimes in one place where people will easily see what a terrible person he is and will leave a lasting mark on his reputation). He resigned for like a month before taking up his position again. I would be very surprised if he hadn't planned all along on making a comeback and for whatever reason thought it would be a good idea to begin around now (though quickly realized because of the added attention of the Duggar scandal, it was not a good time). Maybe he thought with people outside the cult looking more closely at those beliefs because of the Duggars, he could do some damage control by updating his website and all that to draw attention away from the Duggar crimes and at what ATI is "really" about, to paint an image of Josh as an anomaly rather than part of a rampant sexual harrassment/abuse/shame culture problem. Or perhaps thinking that people who already support the Duggars would be floating around looking for ways to be of help to them and that he could use the opportunity to catch them in his web. (Or else he's just an idiot who had no idea the Duggar scandal was taking place and thought no one would immediately notice he was changing his site in an effort to spin himself as a good guy again).

If I remember correctly, the allegations in the 1980s centered on his sexual harassment of young female staffers, which is what he faced this time. Additionally though, his brother was also accused of sexually harassing (and I believe raping) female staffers during the 1980s events. Recovering Grace has way more information on this. I should head over soon and read up on everything again.