The Duggars' Megyn Kelly Lie-a-Thon Shit Show- Part 2

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I really dont know if you can call someone of that age a paedophile. His sexual preferences might not even be fully cristalized. It seems that from watching porn to touching a five year old were others where present is a very bold move, so I can follow your reasoning.

We just dont know, and probably the family and even him might not know, if it isnt adresssed in a proper manner and in that way his parents failed him, his victims and themselves enormously and in an very disfunctional way.

I agree.

I do hope he got the appropriate help so he could either control this or stop it.

His parents however seem to be unwilling or unable to admit he had a severe psych problem.

[SassyPants]

From the beginning Megyn and Kimberly guilfoyl.were the only two saying on Fox news that this was an illegal release. NapolitAno, Ferrer, geraldo and numerous other contributers said it wasnt.

Megyn then tried to sell it hard with that one california lawyer against the bald lawyer. But eventually she had to concede.

I am one of those who would not have turned my son in. But I would have got him out of the house and in to treatment and if possible living with a relative.

But in their case they don't know anyone who doesn't have a thousand kids themself or who is isn't a heathen. Also it would require them to admit they needed help from someone else.

So who knows.

He had grandparents living in the area.

[mamallama]

IMO all of the acts were predatory because none of the girls were in a position to give consent. Even if the older girls were awake Josh had power over them. That's not a moral judgement, though, just an acknowledgement of the power relationship.

Wouldn't it be funny if it was that simple that Fox news tried to get the records after they were sealed and just assumed that they'd been sealed from the beginning so it must be a conspiracy.

The thing the reddit article doesn't say is it's not an either/or as far a "reporting it" or going to a psychiatrist. Taking them for treatment will result in a report which will be followed up by CPS. If they find that appropriate treatment is in place they will follow it. I doubt the police would have even be involved in a case like Josh's.

[Dutchdutch]

I agree.

I do hope he got the appropriate help so he could either control this or stop it.

His parents however seem to be unwilling or unable to admit he had a severe psych problem.

Or their severe psych problems came to light via Josh ? And didnt want to deal with their own problems, so they fled into a cult.

[Dutchdutch]

IMO all of the acts were predatory because none of the girls were in a position to give consent. Even if the older girls were awake Josh had power over them. That's not a moral judgement, though, just an acknowledgement of the power relationship.

Wouldn't it be funny if it was that simple that Fox news tried to get the records after they were sealed and just assumed that they'd been sealed from the beginning so it must be a conspiracy.

The thing the reddit article doesn't say is it's not an either/or as far a "reporting it" or going to a psychiatrist. Taking them for treatment will result in a report which will be followed up by CPS. If they find that appropriate treatment is in place they will follow it. I doubt the police would have even be involved in a case like Josh's.

I dont know if this will answer your question : "I worked with sex offenders for a while. Many were your stereotypical middle-aged dudes who rape strangers or run child porn rings. But many did not fit this description. Among those who did not fit those description were older teens and young adults who were responsible for abuse VERY much like what Josh Duggar admitted to"

That the poster used the word sex offerders implies involvement from a justice departement and she seems to be a employee in the therapeutic field.

[DaysAgo]

https://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/

Body language reader post about JimChelle.

That is an excellent article! I watched a rerun of the interview last night and I wondered then what their body language was telling us.

[DuggarWatch]

Wouldn't it be funny if it was that simple that Fox news tried to get the records after they were sealed and just assumed that they'd been sealed from the beginning so it must be a conspiracy.

The thing the reddit article doesn't say is it's not an either/or as far a "reporting it" or going to a psychiatrist. Taking them for treatment will result in a report which will be followed up by CPS. If they find that appropriate treatment is in place they will follow it. I doubt the police would have even be involved in a case like Josh's.

The records were never sealed in the first place because the police report was made in 2006 when Josh was not a minor.

He refused to be interviewed by the police unless they arrested him, which the police could not do because the statute of limitations had expired. Pa Duggar knew this and called the police and told them that Josh wasn't going to come in for an interview. So, what the police did was refer the family to the Families in Need of Services agency, which has jurisdiction over minors. The Department of Human Services (DHS) was then informed and that's when all the kids went into counseling (three to four years after the molestations occurred.) If Josh had not agreed to counseling in 2006, he would have been removed from the home. And maybe he was. Because, nine months later, Josh Duggar sued the Arkansas Department of Human Services. A trial was held on August 6, 2007.

“Josh would be considered an in-home offender, giving DHS the authority to do an investigation. As part of your appeal rights you can request a DHS hearing to challenge what they found and their ruling.â€

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/dugg ... ices-59201

Remember, after the initial Duggar specials on TLC, the actual TV series began airing in 2008. It was critical to Ma and Pa Duggar (and the almighty income) that the TV show begin filming as scheduled and they couldn't do that if Josh was only allowed limited access (or no access at all!)to the family.

There's a lot more to this story. Stay tuned.

[chelleinchicago]

He had grandparents living in the area.

OR...one parent moves out with the problem teenager and the grandparents move in to help. I guess the parents weren't willing to unconjoin.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

He had grandparents living in the area.

Her parents are older and sicker and might have been already very sick at this time. Also they aren't in this cult. They are the ones who raised lesbian and a girl who did the lawn work in a bikini. No way would they allow any child of theirs to live alone with those sorts.

As for his parents not sure when the father got sick. So they might not have been a good choice.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

[align=left][/align]

OR...one parent moves out with the problem teenager and the grandparents move in to help. I guess the parents weren't willing to unconjoin.

I don't agree with parents splitting up to help one child. It isn't fair to your relationship with each other nor to the other children.

But Josh absolutely should have been removed from the home and I am sure had they cared they would have someone appropriate besides some contactor for him stay with unitl his therapist gave permission for him to return or be was committed somewhere.

[chelleinchicago]

[align=left][/align]

I don't agree with parents splitting up to help one child. It isn't fair to your relationship with each other nor to the other children.

But Josh absolutely should have been removed from the home and I am sure had they cared they would have someone appropriate besides some contactor for him stay with unitl his therapist gave permission for him to return or be was committed somewhere.

I didn't mean it as a permanent solution, but I would have run out of the house with him after the under-the-clothes incidents where his behavior was escalating/he was getting bolder. I'd do whatever was needed to protect the girls, with no delay. Of course I'd also have arranged for him to get help so that I didn't have to stay away from my other children for long.

You know, I keep thinking about the laundry room incident and I can't for the life of me imagine how that would have happened without a lot of physical maneuvering. In other words, "just a few seconds" holds little meaning.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

The laundry room incident is worrying. The girl in the interview said she was picked up and placed on the washing machine but she didn't remember what he did to her.

So she either blocked it, was trained or repeatedly told to remember something that didn't happen , or is choosing to just stay quiet for self protection or to protect Josh. None of which are particularly healthy.

She is also the one who said she didn't trust Josh but loved him which makes me think her parents have tried to convince her either it happened differently than she remembers or have told her out and out to lie and this leads to her lack of trust of anything dealing with him.

[SassyPants]

OR...one parent moves out with the problem teenager and the grandparents move in to help. I guess the parents weren't willing to unconjoin.

The parents weren't willing to grow up themselves. In fact, they themselves are still stuck at the maturity level of teenagers.

[JenniferJuniper]

Her parents are older and sicker and might have been already very sick at this time. Also they aren't in this cult. They are the ones who raised lesbian and a girl who did the lawn work in a bikini. No way would they allow any child of theirs to live alone with those sorts.

As for his parents not sure when the father got sick. So they might not have been a good choice.

Michelle's mother was long dead, her father died after a long period of poor health in 2010 (he was living with the family in '06 according to the police report) but Jim Bob's parents were well and presumably living in the area at the time. I'm going to guess that they weren't asked to take him, even if Grandma Mary is a full blown cultist. We know Jimmy Lee didn't approve of them having all those kids, and God knows, he may have still been drinking beer and cursing!

[chelleinchicago]

The laundry room incident is worrying. The girl in the interview said she was picked up and placed on the washing machine but she didn't remember what he did to her.

So she either blocked it, was trained or repeatedly told to remember something that didn't happen , or is choosing to just stay quiet for self protection or to protect Josh. None of which are particularly healthy.

She is also the one who said she didn't trust Josh but loved him which makes me think her parents have tried to convince her either it happened differently than she remembers or have told her out and out to lie and this leads to her lack of trust of anything dealing with him.

That's really disturbing, because if someone is able to remember being picked up and placed on the washing machine, then.... God, those parents piss me off! And her therapy probably consisted of being told that it was her responsibility to make certain nothing like this happened again.

[makauflin]

Dutchdutch, great post. Thanks for sharing! Where was this guy after the girls' interview? The "expert" Megyn Kelly had seemed like she was just regurgitating what Kelly already said. Does she even work with victims? She seemed like more of an expert on public policy/laws regarding sexual abuse. The author of that post would have been much better.

I've been thinking a lot lately about the incident in the laundry room. The victim was around 7 or 8, right? I'm a bit confused about the ages since I haven't re-read the police report. But I was molested by a friend's older cousin when I was 7 years old. It happened once, but I remember it like it was yesterday, even though I can't remember other things that happened when I was 7. It could be that my incident was "longer," or that I was more scared because he wasn't somebody I knew well, etc., and that's why I remember it... I don't know. But wouldn't something like that be burned in the victim's brain, even if they can't remember other things from their childhood?

My sister in law was 5 when she was molested and remembers it, and came forward in her mid-20's. And her parents never knew it happened, so it wasn't like she had counseling or talked about it with anyone to "remind" her of it.

It's just so odd.

[wildlingrose]

I am a licensed mental health professional. I work with children and adolescents specifically. I did a year long internship working with victims and offenders of all ages.

If siblings came in for counseling the first thing that would happen after a disclosure abuse is a report to authorities and a safety plan. And yes I would adamantly recommend separating a child with these behaviors from the home so treatment and investigation could occur.

A lot of times victims deny what happened with perpetrator in home.

It's surprising how many parents think that because their kids had a safe interview for abuse that they have had treatment. So many times I'll see a person years later for depression or anxiety or substance abuse and the "treatment" Was little more than the initial intake.

I almost always recommend treatment for all, and usually tx for a child with sexually reactive behavior is a minimum of six months to a year with restitution phase at the end if appropriate. The pornography and five ppl molested with victims getting younger and younger suggests escalation and further treatment was needed. Getting him out of the house was a good idea but he wasn't ready to come back for sure!

[2manyKidzzz]

The laundry room incident is worrying. The girl in the interview said she was picked up and placed on the washing machine but she didn't remember what he did to her.

So she either blocked it, was trained or repeatedly told to remember something that didn't happen , or is choosing to just stay quiet for self protection or to protect Josh. None of which are particularly healthy.

She is also the one who said she didn't trust Josh but loved him which makes me think her parents have tried to convince her either it happened differently than she remembers or have told her out and out to lie and this leads to her lack of trust of anything dealing with him.

It is upsetting to even think about this and it didn't happen to me. Alone in a small room, invasive touching. And this is your brother. Traumatic for sure. This was not "curiosity" but such predatory behavior.

[halcionne]

This is like one of those very bad, no budget, state supplied defense attny's approach.

You just throw a bunch of stuff at the walls and see what sticks.

What they needed to do was draw their family close (not that close), make a very humble, contrite written statement and shut the whole thing down. If they really cared about their family, healing and moving forward, that's what they would have done.

JB himself said they'll be fine, and I assumed that to mean financially solvent. Perhaps he was only referring to he and Michelle, but regardless, it's time to draw on their faith and privately put it into action.

The kids are screwed but they've always been screwed. With fewer resources and liquid cash flow, maybe JB would have to change his approach and let the kids go once they are of age. No more fiefdom.

I feel like Hunter Frederick could've done a better job. :shhh:

[SpoonfulOSugar]

I just wanted to touch on something I have read on this thread and a few others- people saying it isn't "normal" for a boy to touch or want to see his sister.

I beg to differ. It is actually very common for pubescent boys to be curious even about their sisters. I think we a have seen it in our own lives with our own brothers or friend's brothers. It is even a common trope on TV sitcoms.

Brothers will often go through a phase where they are curious about the female form and will accidentally walk in their sister changing or they elbow her breast. Afterall, before the internet your sister was your only easy chance to see a boob.

Now where I think Josh went off the rails of normal was he was slightly older than I would consider normal for this behaviour. This could be because of how he was raised with his sexuality forced down with no outlet. Or he could naturally be immature - afterall Jim Bob appears to be.

Josh also CONTINUED his behavior beyond the usual once or twice seeing your sister in her bra would suffice for a boy of 12 or there abouts.

HE ALSO was not showing interest in JUST pubescent girls. Jill and Jessa, it is possible, was just old enough to be considered "blossoming". This family also seems to sexuallize girls from an early age and he probably had no outside outlet for his frustrations like so many boys without pubescent sisters have in school mates. We also know there wasn't any looking at the bra section of the sears catalog, getting his hands on a nudie mag, or the internet.

Another thing Josh did that is well outside normal is his interests in prepubescent girls. This adolescent obsession with girl's bodies is about the developing body and the younger girls in no way should have been able to fulfil that.

BUT I harken back to my last post as well as what was said on here over the past few weeks. It is possible Josh was escalating as a cry for help, or be is truly emotionally stunted and was "curious" about girls like a five year old would be.

I am not excusing his behavior as I think JB and M by not getting him help straight off when he was literally crying for it, made this into a much more complicated psychological problem.than it may have started out as.

The reason for my post though is more to ask that folks not demonize adolescent boys because they might want to sneak a peek at their teenage sisters. Punish them for invading her privacy and all that but realize it is fairly normal even if it is his sister.

I thought about this post for some time, and I quite frankly don't think it is all that common, nor would I term it "normal," sorry. Here is a quote from a professional:

According to John V. Caffaro, a professor at the California School of Professional Psychology, Los Angeles and author of Sibling Abuse Trauma, sibling sexual abuse is more common than people believe, saying it is almost at epidemic levels.

Writing for the Washington Post, he said, “Sibling sexual abuse is the most closely kept secret in the field of family violence. More than one in three cases of sexual assault against children in the U.S. are committed by other minors.â€

“A 2002 study by the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services found that at least 2.3 percent of children have been sexually victimized by a sibling. By comparison, 0.12 percent are sexually abused by an adult family member,†he wrote before admitting that young children are naturally curious about their bodies.

“All children explore their bodies and may engage in visual or even manual exploration of a sibling at times. This is one way that children discover sexual differences between boys’ and girls’ anatomies.â€

While that might explain sexual curiosity — such as “playing doctor†— in younger children, Josh Duggar was 14 at the time the series of molestations began.

Source: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/did-jim ... /comments/

Small children close in age? Sure, maybe. Pubescent siblings? No way, Jose.

[ApologistsBeDamned]

I thought about this post for some time, and I quite frankly don't think it is all that common, nor would I term it "normal," sorry. Here is a quote from a professional:

Source: http://www.rawstory.com/2015/06/did-jim ... /comments/

Small children close in age? Sure, maybe. Pubescent siblings? No way, Jose.

No it really is normal for a boy going through puberty to be fascinated with his pubescent sister.

I am not saying 14 is normal. I said Josh was a bit older than normal and he eventually chose clearly prepubescent children.

But it more common.than most people want to think about it.

[chelleinchicago]

In their interview, the sisters certainly wanted you to believe Josh's behavior as a boy going through puberty was normal. He was "just a little too curious about girls".

Even if I were to ignore everything I know to be true and give them that one, what he did to the two younger girls is in a different category altogether. I'm in the camp that thinks it was all pretty abnormal based on the totality of his behavior.

[FloraKitty35]

"just a little too curious about girls" would mean (to me) that he grabbed a girl's breast and she slapped the shit out of him or had kicked him in balls with all of her might and he never did it again. What Josh did doesn't fit that criteria.

[singsingsing]

There's kind of a huge difference between being a 14-year-old boy and staring at your teenage sister's boobs and even wondering what they look like or feel like, and sneaking into your sisters' room at night to grope their genitals without their knowledge or consent. Even if he had done it once and then felt terrible and guilty about it and understood just exactly how wrong it was, and never did it again - but that wasn't the case. He did it again and again and again, he grew bolder and his victims apparently younger, for over a year. This was not pubescent curiosity.

[chelleinchicago]

There's kind of a huge difference between being a 14-year-old boy and staring at your teenage sister's boobs and even wondering what they look like or feel like, and sneaking into your sisters' room at night to grope their genitals without their knowledge or consent. Even if he had done it once and then felt terrible and guilty about it and understood just exactly how wrong it was, and never did it again - but that wasn't the case. He did it again and again and again, he grew bolder and his victims apparently younger, for over a year. This was not pubescent curiosity.

Especially when I think of how it would have been had it happened to me. I have a brother who's 10 years older than me and two in between us. We're all still close but if anything like that had happened I can't imagine ever feeling the same about him. Ever. Even if I'd found a way to forgive for whatever reason, it would have altered our relationship.... irreparably. I say that having some experience with this, just not with a family member. That would have been devastating to me, and if I'd had a baby sister that I knew it happened to? Honestly, when I put myself in their situation I realize, if anything, I've not been outraged enough.