Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part 12

[FundieFarmer]

Sure Gothard created the system, but TLC paid for the freak show that allowed the Duggars to push deeper into the horrible rituals and beliefs. Without that sweet TLC money, there would be no giant home. Kids would have left and no doubt gained skills at real jobs. TLC money kept them all in that house and under Jim Bob's absolute control. With food, furniture and toiletries just showing up on their doorstep from advertisers, the kids' were mentally stunted and forced to adhere to the Gothard system in order to keep the show afloat. I mean, the Bates kids understand work and the costs of living. They are still Gothard stooges (with a portrait of Nathan Bedford Forrest in their living room wall) but their kids understand what makes a person an adult who gets no special treatment from the world (or free trips all over the place.) I think it's going to be a long time before any Duggar child wakes up in the morning without a feeling of entitlement or finds an independent job for themselves. TLC was a major component in creating the Duggar children's stagnation.

I despise what TLC has presented as programming. Their right wing bias is glaring and TLC damages children in the name of ratings. I agree that no children should be on reality TV (I might go further and say all scripted TV and advertising as well.) But that isn't going to change without a serious push back at TLC, in particular, by the children it has abused over the years to create it's programming. There will always be greedy and desperate parents like the Duggars and the Gosselins ready to pimp their kids for money. The only way to stop that is to cut off the source to channels like TLC through legal repercussions.

As far as wages and jobs, we see plenty of Fundie families where this isn't necessarily the case and the kids go on to barely make living wage at jobs that don't require education, or work for ATI/IBLP themselves. The Bates kids do appear to be extraordinarily well-adjusted given the circumstances, but let's not forget that they are very much as ensconced in ATI/IBLP government as, if not more than, the Duggars. I do agree that it'll be a while before any of the Duggar kids get an independent job, but I don't think it will be because of TLC.

I don't agree that TLC pushed them down the ATI/IBLP rabbit hole. I think the Duggars have been exposed to much more of the world through their partnership with TLC than they ordinarily would've been (see Bates) and in turn, have seen much more of differing opinions through that exposure. I wouldn't say it has tempered their beliefs whatsoever, but I do think it gave an additional lens through which to see their faith that others in their belief system didn't/don't have. Plus, the show was pretty successful in covering up the ATI/IBLP connection until now, so I think that really had very little to do with their filming and content over the simple anomaly of a super-large, Christian family doing things.

[laundry]

I don't know. I saw that there was a website for this Youtube channel is duggarstudios.com/blog?month=November-2014

I am looking at the website and it seems to go back to November 2014

FJ'er's need your help. Can you watch this video "Duggar Arrested in "Duggar Pillow Patrol"! duggarstudios.com/blog/2015/6/6/duggar-arrested-in-duggar-pillow-patrol from Nov 2014

and tell me

!. Is that Duggar boy (laying on the bed with the pillow)? Which one?

2. Who is the arresting officier kid? Another Duggar or ?

3. Do you recognize the place where it was taped? Looks like a steel building.

4. Did this clip ever appear on tv or on the Duggar Fam. official website?

I'm not the one you asked, but I just want to say yes those are Duggar boys. The boy on the bed with the pillow is Jason and the "officer" is Jedediah.

[karen77]

As far as wages and jobs, we see plenty of Fundie families where this isn't necessarily the case and the kids go on to barely make living wage at jobs that don't require education, or work for ATI/IBLP themselves. The Bates kids do appear to be extraordinarily well-adjusted given the circumstances, but let's not forget that they are very much as ensconced in ATI/IBLP government as, if not more than, the Duggars. I do agree that it'll be a while before any of the Duggar kids get an independent job, but I don't think it will be because of TLC.

I don't agree that TLC pushed them down the ATI/IBLP rabbit hole. I think the Duggars have been exposed to much more of the world through their partnership with TLC than they ordinarily would've been (see Bates) and in turn, have seen much more of differing opinions through that exposure. I wouldn't say it has tempered their beliefs whatsoever, but I do think it gave an additional lens through which to see their faith that others in their belief system didn't/don't have. Plus, the show was pretty successful in covering up the ATI/IBLP connection until now, so I think that really had very little to do with their filming and content over the simple anomaly of a super-large, Christian family doing things.

Maybe this is part of why they think people that are Christians are like them (or think like them). SInce they show shows them in this light, they never see it pointed out that some of the more obscure pieces of their faith aren't shared by others.

[DaysAgo]

To People magazine:

[grandmadugger]

This came up in a conversation on a Facebook group I'm on and thought it might apply to Michelle. Would the trauma be Caleb's miscarriage?

http://loveline.wikia.com/wiki/Little_Girl_Voice

[Palimpsest]

Maybe this is part of why they think people that are Christians are like them (or think like them). SInce they show shows them in this light, they never see it pointed out that some of the more obscure pieces of their faith aren't shared by others.

I agree with everything FundieFarmer said. I don't think the Duggar horizons were broadened much though because they are still very insular. Certainly the Duggars got to travel, but the filming schedule plus camera and sound people, directors, producers, production assistants, bodyguards, etc. meant that they weren't seeing much of anything or socializing with people outside the family and approved TLC employees.

Karen77, the chances are that the Duggars only believe that people who think exactly like them are true Christians. Other people who call themselves Christians are just fakes, not the right kind of Christian, and are not properly saved. They are certainly aware that their beliefs are not shared by all Christians. Also remember, Catholics are not Christians according to the Duggars.

[NoShoesSuze]

Yep, that's a Duggar-approved activity for the howlers. I haven't watched the video in a long time and I'm not inclined to watch it now, but I recall the exterior is the garage/storage/pole barn and the kitchen/living room shots were filmed elsewhere and edited to look like they were part of Ben's room, which is where the bedroom footage was done. I'm pretty sure those are all howler boys in the video, but like I said, I haven't watched it recently.

I posted this in the Anna/Josh video thread about the guest house, so it may be helpful, or not :shrug:

I think it has been shown on the show, in the episodes where the family watched back episodes and gave commentary. I don't have any episodes to watch to give the episode titles, but the biggest WTF for me from those episodes was Jackson reacting to his birth. Jill was pregnant I believe, but early still and not showing much/at all.

I remembered something else about it. Before the did that trainer workout challenge, when Joe was showing Josh and JB how to work out (JB in jeans) in one of the warehouse bays, there was black fabric all around but I paused and rewound trying to figure out what they were hiding- they had built 2x4 wall supports against one side. So I think they renovated 1.5 of their warehouse bays (where Bin's room was) to be a proper "guest house". 

Also on the short films the boys made (Duggar studios,

[laundry]

This came up in a conversation on a Facebook group I'm on and thought it might apply to Michelle. Would the trauma be Caleb's miscarriage?

http://loveline.wikia.com/wiki/Little_Girl_Voice

Is this a real thing? I haven't heard of "Loveline" before, but I have heard about Dr. Drew and understand he is serious. Anyway, if Michelle's voice is "little girl voice" it couldn't be because of Caleb's miscarriage, because it says that it is caused by psychological trauma before the onset of puberty. (She did struggle with bulimia though and she went from being a normal high school girl to marrying Jim Bob and and live happily ever after in a cult, so who knows what she has experienced in her childhood.)

[Nic]

Is this a real thing? I haven't heard of "Loveline" before, but I have heard about Dr. Drew and understand he is serious. Anyway, if Michelle's voice is "little girl voice" it couldn't be because of Caleb's miscarriage, because it says that it is caused by psychological trauma before the onset of puberty. (She did struggle with bulimia though and she went from being a normal high school girl to marrying Jim Bob and and live happily ever after in a cult, so who knows what she has experienced in her childhood.)

Yes it's totally true. Dr Drew and Adam Carolla have been saying it FOR YEARS and are pretty accurate when they call it out. I've thought Michelle's voice reminded me of it, but I felt squidgy about saying something. BUT the baby voice and if you add what some might call provocative behavior when she was younger, there's SOME issue there.

Love Line was their original show when they got together.

[justbecause]

I don't know how you guys feel, but I am so pissed that Josh would put that Father's Day video out on Youtube. I may be a little cranky, but I don't think so. You know that they have phones and for Josh to put that out on a public channel was so obnoxious in my opinion. So arrogant.

You'd think if nothing else he would want to stay out of the media for his sister's sake until things settle. Let them get back to normal at least.

Am I the only one trippin' on this?

[SassyPants]

I think it was a test of the waters because every.single.one.of.them.is.desperate.for.money.

They all learned from the original money whore, JB (well maybe he learned from his mother).

Maybe JB himself is a little nervous. Josh has flamed out and is now just 6 more mouths to feed.

Derick quit his job- horrible timing.

Ben thought he was on the Duggar gravy train to fame when he signed on the dotted line.

Jb might have assets, but getting those resources to work for you takes a lot of time and energy, that I do not think JB is willing to expend at this point in life. Either that or you pay someone else to do the work for you, which for a man in JB's situation, a waste of money. Josie is 5...she won't be independent for years.

[halcionne]

I don't know how you guys feel, but I am so pissed that Josh would put that Father's Day video out on Youtube. I may be a little cranky, but I don't think so. You know that they have phones and for Josh to put that out on a public channel was so obnoxious in my opinion. So arrogant.

You'd think if nothing else he would want to stay out of the media for his sister's sake until things settle. Let them get back to normal at least.

Am I the only one trippin' on this?

JB&M put it up, not Josh. You'd think if nothing else JB&M would want to stay out of the media for their daughters' sake until things settle. Let them get back to normal at least.

But I agree, whoever put it up is tone deaf and needs to get a clue.

[Hera]

JB&M putting up a video of their child molester son that reminds the viewing public that he has small children is pretty much par for the course at this point.

These people apparently really do not understand that most people think that child molestation is a bad, bad thing, not a "mistake" that you can pray away and the majority of them aren't buying what they're trying to sell at all.

[karismanic]

Here's my idle speculation about the Duggars lawyering up:

What if F8F and TLC are trying to enforce a contract requiring a certain number of remaining episodes and the Duggars suspect they'll be thrown under the bus like the Gosselin were? Those last few J&K+8 episodes were painful to watch but probably ratings gold for TLC.

[Nic]

Here's my idle speculation about the Duggars lawyering up:

What if F8F and TLC are trying to enforce a contract requiring a certain number of remaining episodes and the Duggars suspect they'll be thrown under the bus like the Gosselin were? Those last few J&K+8 episodes were painful to watch but probably ratings gold for TLC.

Duggars don't want to go away... and actually Kate didn't either.

Daggers wouldn't be posting to Youtube or making speaking appearances if they planned to retire from the spotlight.

I really think the Duggars hired an attorney to go on offense and not as a defense to stay off TV

[MatthewDuggar]

Search "pillow patrol." There was another video called Duggar loses wisdom or something, not a comedy, about Josiah's wisdom tooth surgery; and a couple of other silly videos.

Josh and Jessa both put pics of JB on their instas last night--he's looking pretty haggard, imo.

edited to make pics smaller

Is this a recent pic of Jim Boob? If so, he's not only looking haggard, but very thin.... where as Smuggar has ballooned based on the Father's Day video.

[halcionne]

Is this a recent pic of Jim Boob? If so, he's not only looking haggard, but very thin.... where as Smuggar has ballooned based on the Father's Day video.

I don't know when they were taken, but they were both posted at this time yesterday. JB is wearing different shirts in each picture. Hmm.

[gustava]

Is this a real thing? I haven't heard of "Loveline" before, but I have heard about Dr. Drew and understand he is serious. Anyway, if Michelle's voice is "little girl voice" it couldn't be because of Caleb's miscarriage, because it says that it is caused by psychological trauma before the onset of puberty. (She did struggle with bulimia though and she went from being a normal high school girl to marrying Jim Bob and and live happily ever after in a cult, so who knows what she has experienced in her childhood.)

Several points: IIRC, we've heard the Clown Car speak in something other than the "little girl voice." i believe she uses it when she wants to and speaks normally otherwise.

She said she struggled with bulimia, but we know she lies, so I don't know that we can trust her on this.

[Nic]

Didn't Meechelle say one time that she was bellowing at her kids and something she read or was told or imagined stated that's the wrong approach and being quiet like a sociopath is more effective with the hearts of the little ones so ever since then she has purposed herself to talk like that bc it forces the kids to really pay attention to what she is saying...except that she uses it all the time and I, as an adult, find it creepy and patronizing to be spoken to that way.

[justbecause]

JB&M putting up a video of their child molester son that reminds the viewing public that he has small children is pretty much par for the course at this point.

These people apparently really do not understand that most people think that child molestation is a bad, bad thing, not a "mistake" that you can pray away and the majority of them aren't buying what they're trying to sell at all.

The irony of it all is that their show depends on the public (viewers), so they are just pissing in their own pool.

[halcionne]

Didn't Meechelle say one time that she was bellowing at her kids and something she read or was told or imagined stated that's the wrong approach and being quiet like a sociopath is more effective with the hearts of the little ones so ever since then she has purposed herself to talk like that bc it forces the kids to really pay attention to what she is saying...except that she uses it all the time and I, as an adult, find it creepy and patronizing to be spoken to that way.

Yes. You also need to get down on their level and put their chin in a vicelike grip, requiring them to make eye contact with you. Terrifying.

I have a relative who's a preacher's wife and has taught kindergarten for probably fifty years and she talks like Michelle. It just happens when you're surrounded by five year olds, I suppose. My relative has more than two brain cells to rub together though, and as devout as she is, she is still capable of having an adult conversation about topics other than Jesus. Plus, I actually like her, so her keep sweet voice doesn't get to me like Michelle's does.

[feministxtian]

About MEchelle and the "baby voice". When my kids were younger, I did notice that I could get their attention MUCH more easily if I spoke quietly. It wasn't a baby voice though, it was more my normal voice turned down a few decibels. The kids learned that if I was yelling, I wasn't really all that mad, but when I turned my voice down and got quiet, I was REALLY pissed. It worked. I don't do it now, my kids are grown, but my son did tell my DIL how effective it was and so she uses it on our grandson, who now knows that if mama is quiet, he'd better do what she says.

[Nic]

About MEchelle and the "baby voice". When my kids were younger, I did notice that I could get their attention MUCH more easily if I spoke quietly. It wasn't a baby voice though, it was more my normal voice turned down a few decibels. The kids learned that if I was yelling, I wasn't really all that mad, but when I turned my voice down and got quiet, I was REALLY pissed. It worked. I don't do it now, my kids are grown, but my son did tell my DIL how effective it was and so she uses it on our grandson, who now knows that if mama is quiet, he'd better do what she says.

There's a definite difference between the tried and true speaking softly to get attention and the baby voice.

Teachers have been using the former for years to bring energy levels down and get kids attention. The baby voice Michelle does is her perversion of it I'm guessing. Another Duggar half-ass job.

[DaysAgo]

Michelle's baby voice is indicative of the childlike relationship she has with JB. She even sits like a child in a sulky way. Her eyes are buggy like children's eyes when they are pleading or excited or guilty.

Michelle has lost herself and has surrendered her power as a woman over to JB. She clearly has suffered a lot of trauma in her life. I wish she would get professional, in-house psychological treatment and reclaim herself. Poor thing.

[laundry]

Nothing new, but more documented lies, this time under oath: http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/j ... ourt-case/

Jim Bob and Josh sued an insurance company in 2013. They were asked on paper:

In Washington County Circuit Court documents exclusively obtained by Radar, Jim Bob and Josh were asked to “describe any criminal records you may have, including the nature of the charge, date and place of the arrest, and conviction, if any.â€

and

“Please produce copies of any reports, statements, or other documents provided from or to the Springdale Police Department, Washington County Sheriff’s Office, or the Arkansas State Police,†the defendants asked next.

Their answer:

“The Plaintiffs state that no such records existâ€

Jim Bob also lied when claming he had not ever filed any other civil lawsuit. http://radaronline.com/celebrity-news/j ... ing-order/