Erika Shupe Miscarriage

[FJismyheadship]

From the comments section of the latest post

Serenity JesterMay 19, 2015 at 6:40 AM

Hi Erika,

My mom is a big fan of yours.

What age do you teach your children to drive? Do the older two have licenses yet? Do you allow them to find jobs outside the home?

I'm 18 and having struggles with my mom over finding a job and learning to drive. I'm just curious what your rules are in regards to things like that so I can have an impartial third party opinion, especially one my mom thinks so highly of.

Reply

Replies

Erika ShupeMay 19, 2015 at 7:05 AM

Serenity,

(I *love* your name by the way; I'm going to add it to my girls name list of ideas for our expected baby =).

We will have them start driving at age 18 is the plan. We feel 16 is *way* too young (as do many other families we know). And there is no need yet. When they do drive it will be limited to local areas, and they'll always take a sibling with them.

They have not gotten jobs outside the home yet either at only ages 15 and 16. Again, no need, and not wise in our opinion to do so so young. I mean they've done some pet sitting with neighbors next door, and maybe some car washing/detailing this summer, but not actual employment. We do allow them to have money-earning jobs in our home so they can begin learning about using/saving money. They need to be developing all of their skills in keeping a home and homeschooling, etc. And they are learning a lot. There is no hurry to get a job and get out into the world so early. We have talked a great deal about what kind of work they would like to pursue and what skills they should then be developing and education to pursue that if they choose.

But those decisions about driving and jobs are also highly subjective and effected by what their character is like as well as they get older, effecting timing then. Their level of trustworthiness, application of wisdom, safety, decision making, etc.

Hope that's helpful. =)

Reply

[mango_fandango]

From the comments section of the latest post

Serenity JesterMay 19, 2015 at 6:40 AM

Hi Erika,

My mom is a big fan of yours.

What age do you teach your children to drive? Do the older two have licenses yet? Do you allow them to find jobs outside the home?

I'm 18 and having struggles with my mom over finding a job and learning to drive. I'm just curious what your rules are in regards to things like that so I can have an impartial third party opinion, especially one my mom thinks so highly of.

Reply

Replies

Erika ShupeMay 19, 2015 at 7:05 AM

Serenity,

(I *love* your name by the way; I'm going to add it to my girls name list of ideas for our expected baby =).

We will have them start driving at age 18 is the plan. We feel 16 is *way* too young (as do many other families we know). And there is no need yet. When they do drive it will be limited to local areas, and they'll always take a sibling with them.

They have not gotten jobs outside the home yet either at only ages 15 and 16. Again, no need, and not wise in our opinion to do so so young. I mean they've done some pet sitting with neighbors next door, and maybe some car washing/detailing this summer, but not actual employment. We do allow them to have money-earning jobs in our home so they can begin learning about using/saving money. They need to be developing all of their skills in keeping a home and homeschooling, etc. And they are learning a lot. There is no hurry to get a job and get out into the world so early. We have talked a great deal about what kind of work they would like to pursue and what skills they should then be developing and education to pursue that if they choose.

But those decisions about driving and jobs are also highly subjective and effected by what their character is like as well as they get older, effecting timing then. Their level of trustworthiness, application of wisdom, safety, decision making, etc.

Hope that's helpful. =)

Reply

Oh, I saw this. The legal driving age in the UK is 17, and even though I'm over that I haven't taken lessons yet, although this is purely personal preference. I've seen her thing about jobs before. I'm not defending Erika by any means, but I think Erika really relies on Karen and Melanie to help with the little ones. After them comes Brandon, who's 12, and we know that fundie families rely on the girls only to help out. After that is Anne-Marie, who's only 9. Whilst that is quite grown up, it's a bit much for her to have to help Erika with all the little ones too. If Karen and Melanie did get part time jobs, they'd be out of the house a lot, even if it was only at weekends etc. (I know Erika's reasoning is mostly to do with the girls 'being out from under her counsel', but I think what I just said is relevant too).

To be honest, I was more :pink-shock: at the fact Erika might name a girl Serenity. The rest of her kids have normal, very American names, and then there'd just be little Serenity. Have you seen Serenity's reply? Serenity's mom is pregnant too. They'll call it Trinity Patience if it's a girl (so I think the family's names theme is virtues)... and HANDSOME ELIJAH if it's a boy. Seriously, HANDSOME??? Just fucking call it Elijah!!! Biblical and normal! Good grief...

[Queen Of Hearts]

I like how when the girls are 18 they will be 'allowed' to drive but will be restricted to only local areas and be forced to have a sibling chaperone with them. Guess the fact that they will be legal adults has no factor here.

[SassyPants]

Erica home schools.

Erica needs to learn the difference between effect, a noun, and affect a verb.

[apandaaries]

In looking at the layouts she has posted of her home, I don't think so. I could be wrong, but to my eyes, I can't see how both floors only add up to 1028 square feet.

www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2011/04/ ... -home.html

My old mommies board got REALLY into this discussion. One mom took her own pix to compare. It didn't seem possible. The mom lived in a single-floor home, so she didn't even have stairs to consider, but her house seemed much smaller, especially the dining/kitchen areas. Erika does have that garage, which must help. But still. No wonder she enforces that terrible quiet afternoon policy; it must be one of the only quiet moments for them, living on top of one another as they are.

No wonder the twins are still kept corralled up for hours on end. Containing 2 means that she only has to worry about the others, most of whom are old enough to avoid danger and several of whom are old enough to be conscripted to Erika's child labor army.

The kids' bedrooms make me so sad, and seem like a fire hazard, too.

[mango_fandango]

Erica home schools.

Erica needs to learn the difference between effect, a noun, and affect a verb.

Not defending Erika at all, but I think quite a few people get those two confused. They need to learn the difference too.

Also her saying: "wa-la!" (even in their Christmas letter) instead of "voila", "pallet" instead of "palate" and "Merry Jane" as opposed to "Mary Jane". Then of course, her daughter writing "masterpeice" on a Mother's Day card. Do these people know what a dictionary is??

[FJismyheadship]

Hmm the girl who wrote to Erica has a blog. It only has three posts and she complains about her mom in all of them.

[apandaaries]

Not defending Erika at all, but I think quite a few people get those two confused. They need to learn the difference too.

Also her saying: "wa-la!" (even in their Christmas letter) instead of "voila", "pallet" instead of "palate" and "Merry Jane" as opposed to "Mary Jane". Then of course, her daughter writing "masterpeice" on a Mother's Day card. Do these people know what a dictionary is??

That card was so beautiful, too. I was gazing at it and then started twitching when I saw the error. It's minor, overall, but given how they purport homeschooling to be so vastly superior, it is a bit grating.

Not surprised at all to discover that Erika won't let the girls drive. WAY too close to being independent and not completely reliant on her. I hate to see kids so stifled.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Just to put the debate to an end, I looked up Erika and Bob's address and then ran it in Zillow. The house is indeed 1028 square feet and they list 4 bedrooms and 2 and a half baths (the half bath must be the one off the master bedroom), so they are considering square feet on both floors. Seeing the house on Google maps, it is indeed tiny.

I won't post the link here as I think outing their address is kind of creepy, but anyone can find it in less than a minute with a little Googling and knowledge she has provided on her blog.

[Koala]

Fun fact Erica- Once your daughters are 18 you will have no fucking choice in whether they drive, get jobs, or enlist their siblings as chaperones. Just thought you'd like to know. You're welcome. *grin*

[Eternalbluepearl]

Fun fact Erica- Once your daughters are 18 you will have no fucking choice in whether they drive, get jobs, or enlist their siblings as chaperones. Just thought you'd like to know. You're welcome. *grin*

Exactly! 18 is a legal adult! Goodness gracious! :roll:

[slickcat79]

Just to put the debate to an end, I looked up Erika and Bob's address and then ran it in Zillow. The house is indeed 1028 square feet and they list 4 bedrooms and 2 and a half baths (the half bath must be the one off the master bedroom), so they are considering square feet on both floors. Seeing the house on Google maps, it is indeed tiny.

I won't post the link here as I think outing their address is kind of creepy, but anyone can find it in less than a minute with a little Googling and knowledge she has provided on her blog.

Actually, from Erika's pictures, all the bathrooms have at least a shower (and she calls them all "full baths"). The zillow listing must be off a little, or someone made changes to the baths after they were built.

Also, I never noticed before, but there are like 15 sticky notes attached the the mirror in the master bath :? Erika has mad organizational skills, but it must be insane living in such a regimented household.

[Koala]

It just blows my mind that she thinks she has the authority to decide what an adult can and cannot do. Who.the.hell does she think she is?

[nokidsmom]

Exactly! 18 is a legal adult! Goodness gracious! :roll:

Funny how people like Erica think that they have to "allow" a legal adult to do these things. Lady, your kids can walk out the door at the stroke of midnight on their 18th birthday and you won't be able to do anything about it.

She's going to be one of those parents who still think that they can allow or permit their kids to do things when they are 30.

Take it from someone who left home at 23, fully fed up with this sort of control, never mind the fact I was a legal adult for 5 fricking years. Parents like this never let go.

[Coco]

Insane to think this since they're adding to the family on purpose - but maybe they can't afford the car insurance for a minor.

[Cartmann99]

I thought there'd been some discussion about the size of Erika's house -- either in this thread or elsewhere, but I couldn't find it. She has stated that it's 1100 sq ft, but some people (on Facebook?) had questioned the size and thought it was larger. It took about 20 seconds of searching to find out that it's actually smaller: it's 1028 sq ft. (or 95.5 sq. meters) of living space. The info comes from the county property site. The apt. I share with the spouse is 2 bed/2 bath and 1200 sq ft. and I can't imagine portioning this place out into all those tiny rooms and cramming 12 people in; it just wouldn't be possible. We don't have a dining area and we don't have square footage taken up by staircases like Erika has. Our living room and kitchen look to be about the same size as hers (just positioned differently). Our master bedroom is 14x15 which is good sized, and our two bathrooms are a little larger than hers, but only a little. Their school room/play room looks to be about the size of our second bedroom. How the hell can there be two more bedrooms, another bathroom, and laundry area?? I just can't wrap my brain around how their house works like it does.

I also looked up their house following the clues they left on their blog. The county they live in must be one of those that only counts the square footage that is above ground. There is a sketch located under the "improvements" tab that shows the square footage of each level. The basement is divided into two sections, and we know from her blog that one of them is their garage and that the other section has the children's bedrooms and bathroom in it.

If we assume the slightly larger section of the basement is the living space portion, then her house has 1520 square feet of living space. Not ideal for such a large family, but much better than 1028 square feet.

Edited to add: After thinking about it, I think the basement living area is actually the smaller section, so the total square footage would be 1506 instead of 1520. Sorry for the error. :embarrassed:

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Looking at the pictures of her house, my god! The boys room is like a prison cell. In fact I'm sure actual prisoners have more room and more interesting cells. Can you imagine growing up in a room where the only thing in the room is beds and one tiny box fan? Heart breaking.

Her house looks like a lot of the home photos posted by other fundie bloggers-- dull colors (mostly beige) no art on the walls except scriptures and family photos. So sterile.

[Seven Severn]

I also looked up their house following the clues they left on their blog. The county they live in must be one of those that only counts the square footage that is above ground. There is a sketch located under the "improvements" tab that shows the square footage of each level. The basement is divided into two sections, and we know from her blog that one of them is their garage and that the other section has the children's bedrooms and bathroom in it.

If we assume the slightly larger section of the basement is the living space portion, then her house has 1520 square feet of living space. Not ideal for such a large family, but much better than 1028 square feet.

Edited to add: After thinking about it, I think the basement living area is actually the smaller section, so the total square footage would be 1506 instead of 1520. Sorry for the error. :embarrassed:

^^This makes a lot of sense. The county website stating that it was 1028 sq ft of living space is confusing since the two bedrooms on the lower level are conforming. If they were non-conforming I could understand not including the area in the square footage. :shrug: I bet you have it right, though. :clap:

[momof2treasures]

It's naive to think that Erica and bob don't have complete control of their daughters even after 18. Yeah they are legal adults but they have no money, no license and no friends. What are they going to do? Go sleep in the park. They have no option but to conform.

[Koala]

I don't know- when Karen and Melanie were babies they cut one set of grandparents out of the picture because they wouldn't tow the party line. I wouldn't be surprised if they had relatives that are watching this shit show in horror and would be more than happy to let them stay with them while they get on their feet.

And honestly, yes it would be hard, but it CAN be done. I just can't with the thought that these girls have absolutely no options.

People like Cynthia Jeub and Faith Pennington give me hope

[16strong]

I don't know- when Karen and Melanie were babies they cut one set of grandparents out of the picture because they wouldn't tow the party line. I wouldn't be surprised if they had relatives that are watching this shit show in horror and would be more than happy to let them stay with them while they get on their feet.

And honestly, yes it would be hard, but it CAN be done. I just can't with the thought that these girls have absolutely no options.

People like Cynthia Jeub and Faith Pennington give me hope

I get the impression that a lot of their family members toe the line solely to stay in the kids' lives and have some kind of quiet, positive influence. They can't let the kids watch unapproved films or have an unapproved bedtime, but they can go to college, wear pants, and not go to church. The kids can at least see that people that don't hold their parents' beliefs are good people, too. They can also see that they have someone on their side, no matter what. A confidant, someone to tell things to that isn't their parents, or siblings that could potentially rat them out. You don't have to be loud and proud to be influential.

[Koala]

I get the strong feeling that Erica is the driving force behind most of this family's madness. Don't get me wrong, he's just as culpable as she is, but I doubt he could be bothered to do half of this bullshit if it wasn't for Erica being willing to drive the crazy train.

It's been a while since I read this, but here is the link to the story about Bob's parents. It might be the gospel truth, but this is Erica we're talking about, so I take her version with a grain of salt- or less

largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2013/03/navigating-difficult-relationships.html

[Hane]

As someone raised by a mother who had some control issues, I can say that only an extraordinarily independent and tough-minded young adult would have the strength of will to vacate the premises. Hell, my sisters and I all were college educated and employed, and none of us had the guts to leave until we were married (at 20, 28, and 26).

And I agree about Bob just putting up with all of this shizz because he doesn't want to stir up the pot of crazy. My dad was all for my living away at college, but mom would have none of it.

[HermioneSparrow]

As someone raised by a mother who had some control issues, I can say that only an extraordinarily independent and tough-minded young adult would have the strength of will to vacate the premises. Hell, my sisters and I all were college educated and employed, and none of us had the guts to leave until we were married (at 20, 28, and 26).

And I agree about Bob just putting up with all of this shizz because he doesn't want to stir up the pot of crazy. My dad was all for my living away at college, but mom would have none of it.

I agree, it ain't easy. My family wasn't religious but i was a sister mom, almost a full mom. I wasn't allowed lots of things and i was mentally abused, i attempted suicide at 18 and my parents just told everyone i took pills by 'accident', and told me to say that, to forget about me being clinically depressed. At 18 I had to quit my dreams of going to college cause i had to take care of my little sister, on top of that i had the worst high school experience being heavily bullied. ANYWAY, i went through shit! When I was 20 i had a huge fight with my dad and "woke up", the next day i packed up a backpack of clothes and never looked back. I went to live with my grandma, who helped me to get on my feet, get therapy, get a job, i fixed the relationship with my parents (they eventually asked for forgiveness) aaaaannnnd i JUST graduated from college with honors. It's not easy at all to leave what you know and go after your happiness, it's scary and hard but totally worth it. I don't know if i'm strong but i guess i try to be, specially when i'm struggling with depression but everyday i thank GOD for giving me strength and hope. I know many here don't believe in a higher entity but hope was the only thing that kept me going.

[Coco]

I agree, it ain't easy. My family wasn't religious but i was a sister mom, almost a full mom. I wasn't allowed lots of things and i was mentally abused, i attempted suicide at 18 and my parents just told everyone i took pills by 'accident', and told me to say that, to forget about me being clinically depressed. At 18 I had to quit my dreams of going to college cause i had to take care of my little sister, on top of that i had the worst high school experience being heavily bullied. ANYWAY, i went through shit! When I was 20 i had a huge fight with my dad and "woke up", the next day i packed up a backpack of clothes and never looked back. I went to live with my grandma, who helped me to get on my feet, get therapy, get a job, i fixed the relationship with my parents (they eventually asked for forgiveness) aaaaannnnd i JUST graduated from college with honors. It's not easy at all to leave what you know and go after your happiness, it's scary and hard but totally worth it. I don't know if i'm strong but i guess i try to be, specially when i'm struggling with depression but everyday i thank GOD for giving me strength and hope. I know many here don't believe in a higher entity but hope was the only thing that kept me going.

Congratulations for making it out! And hugs too.