Sierra Jo Dominguez (Jill and Jessa’s wedding planner)

[StopUsingPurposeAsAVerb]

It always strikes me as funny how something like "leaving the number of children up to God" is revered so highly in these circles. To me, it seems like essentially abandoning all semblance of responsibility for your life and any of the choices you then have to make. "Oh, we had to stack the kids like cord wood in a tiny bedroom, we're short on funds. But you wouldn't have wanted us to turn down a BLESSING from GOD, would you?" Then when these fundies' lives are in a sorry state, and they are begging online or from their church, they still get to look down smugly at everybody, because they are obeying God, and have effectively martyred themselves to the cause. So they get to take charity without the sense of shame that they insist others feel when they need help. But if a heathen atheist woman has more kids than she really can afford and needs assistance, "let those babies starve!" It's such a dichotomy.

[roddma]

If you ask me, I think this 'leaving it to God' will phase out with the 3rd generation and possibly the youngest of the 2nd. It seems the younger Quiverfullers are finding out just how hard it is to support multiple kids. I honestly don't know what's so attractive about it, but maybe thats the feminist part of me.

But if a heathen atheist woman has more kids than she really can afford and needs assistance, "let those babies starve!" It's such a dichotomy.

I always tell Duggar humpers you wouldn't support them if they were non religious.

[Coco]

It always strikes me as funny how something like "leaving the number of children up to God" is revered so highly in these circles. To me, it seems like essentially abandoning all semblance of responsibility for your life and any of the choices you then have to make. "Oh, we had to stack the kids like cord wood in a tiny bedroom, we're short on funds. But you wouldn't have wanted us to turn down a BLESSING from GOD, would you?" Then when these fundies' lives are in a sorry state, and they are begging online or from their church, they still get to look down smugly at everybody, because they are obeying God, and have effectively martyred themselves to the cause. So they get to take charity without the sense of shame that they insist others feel when they need help. But if a heathen atheist woman has more kids than she really can afford and needs assistance, "let those babies starve!" It's such a dichotomy.

it's a mystery why quiverfull fundies don't teach families to be wise enough with their resources to have extra to give to the poor and needy, not become the poor and needy intentionally. The entitlement really bothers me. The 'we're special and we decided we're the chosen, so God owes us provision even though we forced ourselves past our limits on purpose' bothers me.

Some fundies and groups are so bigoted and smug while all along they convince themselves that they're so holy and humble obeying the Call, it's awful. I've known some who feel superior over others while they choose to ignore reality and fail to educate themselves about the struggles of others who are different. :( total opposite of what Jesus was like on earth. It's sad that their kids will have to overcome so much conceit.

[ClaraOswin]

You guys are saying all the things I'm thinking and can't put into words. Thank you.

[ClaraOswin]

Sierra has a blog post about submission.

dojosdesigns.blogspot.com

She has some decent points. But then she says some things that really make my blood boil.

"I've always joked that he's the ice cold water that God used to pour on my firecracker attitude."

Yes, let your husband put out any fire/spirit you have. Ugh.

"He knows I'm strong. And he still loves me."

This makes it sound like being strong is some sort of character flaw.

"He lets his quiet strength weaken me,"

Um...okay.

[grandmadugger]

It always strikes me as funny how something like "leaving the number of children up to God" is revered so highly in these circles. To me, it seems like essentially abandoning all semblance of responsibility for your life and any of the choices you then have to make. "Oh, we had to stack the kids like cord wood in a tiny bedroom, we're short on funds. But you wouldn't have wanted us to turn down a BLESSING from GOD, would you?" Then when these fundies' lives are in a sorry state, and they are begging online or from their church, they still get to look down smugly at everybody, because they are obeying God, and have effectively martyred themselves to the cause. So they get to take charity without the sense of shame that they insist others feel when they need help. But if a heathen atheist woman has more kids than she really can afford and needs assistance, "let those babies starve!" It's such a dichotomy.

They aren't leaving it up to God though. They are using NFP to get pregnant. They do everything in their power to get pregnant each time they are able. Leaving it up to God would be just going with the flow and not worrying about when they ovulate.

[Imagine20]

I'm so bitter. I always wanted two children and now I'll only have one due to medical reasons. Seeing all these weirdos popping out baby after baby.....ugh.

Yeah....just going to sit over here with my bitter bitch hat on.

While some of us would give anything just to be able to have one.

[ClaraOswin]

While some of us would give anything just to be able to have one.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound ungrateful for the one that I am lucky enough to have. At one point, I didn't think I'd ever be able to have one so I am very thankful to have him. I have many friends/relatives who are unable to have children and it is truly devastating. Another reason these fundie idiots just drive me insane. They pop out 19 children and never pay attention to them. It pisses me off.

I just don't get it. What it the point of have dozens of kids you don't have the money for. And it's IMPOSSIBLE to have enough time for that many kids. I don't see how they think it's a good thing to have that many.

[Marissap]

Based on Sierra's Instagram I just saw that bobye (or how ever you spell it) Holt is pregnant again. Woman's getting up there in age. Michelle is probably turning green like crazy.

[nastyhobbitses]

If you ask me, I think this 'leaving it to God' will phase out with the 3rd generation and possibly the youngest of the 2nd. It seems the younger Quiverfullers are finding out just how hard it is to support multiple kids. I honestly don't know what's so attractive about it, but maybe thats the feminist part of me.

I always tell Duggar humpers you wouldn't support them if they were non religious.

Or if they were a different religion. I can guarantee you that if they were Muslim and had pretty much identical practices to what they do now as Christians (girls in modest dress, homeschooling, having 19 children, espousing the belief that they need to outbreed people who do not share their beliefs), the same people who could probably implant Baby #20 in Jim Bob's calf from how vigorously they leg-hump would be out for their blood.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Based on Sierra's Instagram I just saw that bobye (or how ever you spell it) Holt is pregnant again. Woman's getting up there in age. Michelle is probably turning green like crazy.

Wow. The last thing I want to be at age 46 is pregnant!

[lizzybee]

"He lets his quiet strength weaken me,"

Um...okay.

That sounds like a bad line from a romance novel. "He just stood there letting his quiet strength weaken me. My loins quivered as he moved to pour ice water on my firecracker attitude." :ew:

[lizzybee]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound ungrateful for the one that I am lucky enough to have. At one point, I didn't think I'd ever be able to have one so I am very thankful to have him. I have many friends/relatives who are unable to have children and it is truly devastating. Another reason these fundie idiots just drive me insane. They pop out 19 children and never pay attention to them. It pisses me off.

I just don't get it. What it the point of have dozens of kids you don't have the money for. And it's IMPOSSIBLE to have enough time for that many kids. I don't see how they think it's a good thing to have that many.

As someone who CANNOT seem to get pregnant, I have come to this place of perverse entertainment by these women who can get pregnant no problem. It feels almost like I'm enjoying a recreational sport or porn. "Yes! That's it right there! Do it again! Aw yeah pregnant again." It's strange yes, but it's how I deal.

I'm completely fascinated, it's like they're Sherlock Holmes and they've gone cluing for looks and solved the "how to get pregnant" case. I get bitter sometimes too, but most of the time I just live vicariously/voyeuristically.

[TeenWitch]

That sounds like a bad line from a romance novel. "He just stood there letting his quiet strength weaken me. My loins quivered as he moved to pour ice water on my firecracker attitude." :ew:

Seriously. What kind of phrase is that? Wtf is "quiet strength?" Hahahaha

[Coco]

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound ungrateful for the one that I am lucky enough to have. At one point, I didn't think I'd ever be able to have one so I am very thankful to have him. I have many friends/relatives who are unable to have children and it is truly devastating. Another reason these fundie idiots just drive me insane. They pop out 19 children and never pay attention to them. It pisses me off.

I just don't get it. What it the point of have dozens of kids you don't have the money for. And it's IMPOSSIBLE to have enough time for that many kids. I don't see how they think it's a good thing to have that many.

Numbers over quality time, because they've got a narrow view of individual personality. This lifestyle doesn't draw sane well-balanced people in, and some children grow up and leave, so they have to produce numbers. Some churches i've been in (mennonite, not so bad in baptist) seem to think it's a sin to be an individual. So having one boy and one girl is the same to them as having 10 boys and 10 girls. Cookie-cutter parenting, limited opportunities for the kids' futures. Very few go on to higher learning, dreams kids usually have of being an astronaut or athlete or doctor or veterinarian aren't even considered for most kids. (in plain circles many kids quit school after 8th grade) Just raised to be followers of the religious lifestyle, guys doing manual labor and girls being at home, depending on the group to get by. The more dependant the families are on the group for housing and vehicles, shared baby stuff and basic needs, the less likely they are to leave the group or do anything to rock the boat.

Peer pressure to join in the baby collecting club is intense. They do homebirth and homeopathy with midwives like Jill and Venessa and if a medical emergency happens the community picks up the healthcare tab (But ONLY IF the family keeps up the group's demands and kisses up enough to stay in good graces). The wives don't have much going on besides children and housekeeping. Learning about the world or deeper thinking is so squashed. A close friend of mine got married at barely 18 without a driver's license and no experience with life outside the cult, and that wasn't looked down on. It's a recipe for abuse or at the very least a bad power imbalance that leaves the wife and kids vulnerable to the whims of the man, desperate to keep the man happy because they have no independence. Some guys treat their wives so poorly, demanding respect but mean to the wife. And they preach that men are supposed to be treated like Christ in the flesh. God's representative on earth. And we all have learned what kind of sick men are attracted to that power trip... abuse is swept under the rug, the police and authorities are often feared instead of respected, there is so little accountability or help available for the vulnerable. All the selfishness, ego, evil, vices and backbiting that are present in every group are there. Even though they say they're led by holiness, and some people are good people, for the majority it just seems to be basic nasty human behavior under a veneer of fake perfection.

But the reason they think they can manage 20 kids is that they treat kids like numbers, cookie cutter kids, and once they're popped out for God they're God's responsibility, so pile 'em on.

[TeenWitch]

Numbers over quality time, because they've got a narrow view of individual personality. This lifestyle doesn't draw sane well-balanced people in, and some children grow up and leave, so they have to produce numbers. Some churches i've been in (mennonite, not so bad in baptist) seem to think it's a sin to be an individual. So having one boy and one girl is the same to them as having 10 boys and 10 girls. Cookie-cutter parenting, limited opportunities for the kids' futures. Very few go on to higher learning, dreams kids usually have of being an astronaut or athlete or doctor or veterinarian aren't even considered for most kids. (in plain circles many kids quit school after 8th grade) Just raised to be followers of the religious lifestyle, guys doing manual labor and girls being at home, depending on the group to get by. The more dependant the families are on the group for housing and vehicles, shared baby stuff and basic needs, the less likely they are to leave the group or do anything to rock the boat.

Peer pressure to join in the baby collecting club is intense. They do homebirth and homeopathy with midwives like Jill and Venessa and if a medical emergency happens the community picks up the healthcare tab (But ONLY IF the family keeps up the group's demands and kisses up enough to stay in good graces). The wives don't have much going on besides children and housekeeping. Learning about the world or deeper thinking is so squashed. A close friend of mine got married at barely 18 without a driver's license and no experience with life outside the cult, and that wasn't looked down on. It's a recipe for abuse or at the very least a bad power imbalance that leaves the wife and kids vulnerable to the whims of the man, desperate to keep the man happy because they have no independence. Some guys treat their wives so poorly, demanding respect but mean to the wife. And they preach that men are supposed to be treated like Christ in the flesh. God's representative on earth. And we all have learned what kind of sick men are attracted to that power trip... abuse is swept under the rug, the police and authorities are often feared instead of respected, there is so little accountability or help available for the vulnerable. All the selfishness, ego, evil, vices and backbiting that are present in every group are there. Even though they say they're led by holiness, and some people are good people, for the majority it just seems to be basic nasty human behavior under a veneer of fake perfection.

But the reason they think they can manage 20 kids is that they treat kids like numbers, cookie cutter kids, and once they're popped out for God they're God's responsibility, so pile 'em on.

I am not fundie or particularly religious, but I live in a very religious part of town (Catholic) and leaving kids up to God, no birth control, no sex before marriage, is highly revered. No one seems to care about if you have the means to take care of the kids, simply having child after child is encouraged. I haven't spent a lot of time in this Catholic circle(a pretty large circle) since college, but at that time in my life I would have felt pressured to have child after child and be very obnoxious about my virginity before marriage ( except I lost it a few months into college and never told anyone due to shame). I talk to some girls who are still in this circle and they talk about maybe having a small family (aka 5 children) because they don't have a lot of money. I would consider 4-5 kids a fairly large family. It's just something that certain people think makes you holier or more elite spiritually: leaving the number of children up to God, even if that means you have unprotected sex everyday and therefore will have a high chance of getting pregnant ( so is that really leaving it up to God?). But it is God's Will and you are a better person. :roll:

[ClaraOswin]

I went to a Catholic school from preschool through 12th grade. I have still kept in touch via Facebook with most of my graduating class (it was a small school.) I only know a handful of people with more than 2 or 3 kids. So I don't think any of them are leaving it up to God. Even the ones that I can tell are super religious don't seem like that is the past they are taking.

Maybe my school just did a bad job in instilling these "values" into us or something. Ha!

[JillyO]

The Catholic church does encourage NFP, though. In fact, the current Pope is vehemently opposed to intentionally having more kids than you can afford.

[usedbicycle]

It depends what kind of Catholic circles you're in. There are definitely Catholic churches of the more fundie kind where having only 2-3 children is seen as selfish. I'm from a family of 8 kids. Many of my cousins/siblings married young and are popping out babies like clockwork, every other year.

I still don't understand how you can be "selfish" towards children that don't even exist yet. It's just a holier-than-thou culture that glorifies young exhausted mothers. Everyone else is looked-down upon as lazy.

In that world I'm a cast-out, barren woman of 28, living in sin (with my boyfriend). I'm also extremely selfish. It's not relevant that I volunteer at a refugee center, work for a non-profit, and treat others kindly.

[EmCatlyn]

The Catholic church does encourage NFP, though. In fact, the current Pope is vehemently opposed to intentionally having more kids than you can afford.

NFP has always been ok with the Catholic Church. It's other types of BC that the Church has a problem with. NFP is a involves abstinence on fertile days, so of course the Church approves.

The problem with NFP is that if cycles are irregular or if the woman is bad at keeping track of her cycle or of the couple has trouble abstaining...

Interestingly, I know a couple of religious Catholic families where the men had vasectomies after they wanted no more kids. It resulted in a hefty penance from the priest, but when the penance was done they could have sex without worrying about unwanted kids.

[TeenWitch]

It is a small circle of Catholics in my area that never drink or smoke, marry at 20 and have a baby within a year, and so on. The emphasis on children and virginity just reminds me of the fundie culture, but there are a lot of differences between the religions. Most who identify as Catholic in my area have 0-4 kids, probably use non-approved methods of birth control, drink alcohol, and people don't think they are being sinful (except some in that small circle).

[EmCatlyn]

It is a small circle of Catholics in my area that never drink or smoke, marry at 20 and have a baby within a year, and so on. The emphasis on children and virginity just reminds me of the fundie culture, but there are a lot of differences between the religions. Most who identify as Catholic in my area have 0-4 kids, probably use non-approved methods of birth control, drink alcohol, and people don't think they are being sinful (except some in that small circle).

Learn something every day--I never heard of Catholics that don't drink for ideological reasons. I trust they don't insist that the sacramental wine should be grape juice?

[ClaraOswin]

I guess all of the Catholics I know are just liberal. I'm 99% sure most use birth control. I know of a few men who have had vasectomies. Many couples have lived together before marriage. Most are pro-gay marriage too.

[TeenWitch]

Learn something every day--I never heard of Catholics that don't drink for ideological reasons. I trust they don't insist that the sacramental wine should be grape juice?

"The body is a temple." The families I am thinking of view intoxication as abusing the temple. No tattoos or piercings besides ears on women either.

I also live in a very conservative state, that may have something to with it. Most Catholics I know, including priests, enjoy alcohol.

[EmCatlyn]

"The body is a temple." The families I am thinking of view intoxication as abusing the temple. No tattoos or piercings besides ears on women either.

I also live in a very conservative state, that may have something to with it. Most Catholics I know, including priests, enjoy alcohol.

Enjoying alcohol is not the same as intoxication. I totally understand an opposition to excessive drinking, but no drinking at all ???

I live in the Bible Belt and it is very common for people to think that drinking is a sin. I find it hilarious that they go into all sorts of contortions to argue that the "wine" in the Bible wasn't really alcoholic. Yeah, right.

I didn't realize they were Catholics who saw even moderate drinking as a sin.

(Good thing the folks at the wedding in Cana didn't feel that way. Imagine Jesus changing all that water into wine and having the guests all shake their heads saying, "No thanks, Lord, Our Bodies are Your Temple.") ;)