Pennington Point daughter escapes/ Has no ID's Part 2

[VVV]

But that's the weird part. She does have a legal name. That's one of the only official documents she has. She has a notarized legal name change document from November 2014.

I looked up the process of name change and notarizing signatures for minors in Texas, assuming she was a minor when the process started. Apparently, any child aged 10 or over has to consent to the name change, and sign in front of the notary who must verify their identity. But the verification can be done by a third party who can vouch for the child if they don't have I.d., which I guess makes sense, because a pre-teen in unlikely to have a picture i.d., but I was surprised a birth certificate or something wasn't required.

I'm thinking Texas might be like a lot of other border states --- until the last 10- 25 years or so the system was set up with the realization that lots of people went back and forth without a lot of official paperwork, and most people didn't particularly care. But then states began cracking down on immigration status and having proper identification for everything - especially in the years following 9-11.

So , on the one post she gave on the tenth where she listed what she had - one thing was the notarized name change from November 2014. Which is extra strange, since she left home in September.

She did the legal name change as an adult with her grandparents' help, after she left. A notary whom her grandparents knew well was involved. She explains it in a comment on her FB page (Help Me Prove It).

[Howl]

This whole thing has burrowed into my thoughts and I keep trying to put the pieces together, so Odds and Ends!

Fist, I don't think James Pennington is aligned with the Sovereign Citizen movement, especially after reading his business (CPA/Attorney) Web site. He's a CPA/attorney and is running a business out in the world. And by the way, James C.'s CPA/attorney service does forensic accounting. When you read his business Web site, though, you can't tell if there are 50 employees or just him. Part of one of the IRS lawsuits had to do with wanting access to his personal bank accounts to reconcile his fiduciary relationship to the Anchor Group, obviously to see if he was sheltering assets in a 501©(3) to avoid tax obligations. I would imagine that he has set things up after an extremely close reading of the IRS laws related to 501©(3)s.

However, the Christian Science Monitor article noted that he is a PAST member of the "Texas Constitution Party". I think they are referring to the Constitution Party of Texas (cptexas.us/home/) and this is their

platform:

What Does the Constitution Party Stand For?

Restore the United States to “One Nation Under Godâ€

Return to Constitutional, Limited Government

Protect the Inalienable Right to Life of All, including the Unborn and Infirm

Protect the Individual Right to Keep and Bear Arms

Restore National Sovereignty, including Withdrawal from the United Nations

Maintain a Strong National Defense

Repeal the Unconstitutional Income Tax

Stop All Unconstitutional Spending

Protect the Inalienable Rights of Liberty and Private Property

Abolish the Federal Reserve and Restore Constitutional Money

Promote Pro-family Policies

End Federal Subsidies for and control of Education and Welfare

Comprehensive Immigration Reform

Return Control over Elections to the People

Abolish Special Interest Entitlements (corporate welfare)

You have to go a little deeper into the Constitution Party of Texas Web site to get to the crazy, but I'd say they are mainstream Christian far right, with notes of racism, homophobia, ammosexuality and classism couched in southern states'-rights nomenclature.

Catching up on some random aspects of the Alecia thing:

The Daily Mail's interview with the grandfather was interesting. From reading that interview, this is my impression of how it went down. It was NOT a carefully planned daring escape scenario orchestrated beforehand with the grandparents. When the grandfather got in the car to go home from his regular Wednesday weekly visit with the family, Alecia/Faith got in the car to leave with him. The grandfather refused to take Alecia with him without the parent's knowledge and consent. Much discussion discussion ensued between the Pennington parents (Lisa and James) and Alecia. Ultimately, Alecia adamantly refused to stay, so she went off with grandad.

So Lisa, here's the question: If the Bible says you MUST honor and obey your parents, why are you shunning YOUR parents? I know it also says that you must leave your mother and father and cleave to your spouse, but hey, the requirement to honor your father and mother (even into adulthood) seems absolute to me. But of course, this isn't being addressed and won't be addressed in the future because the ultimate betrayal is leaving Lisa, and that can NEVER be forgiven.

This is so sad all the way around: a grandfather cut off from his grandchildren, Alecia is cut off from her siblings and from her parents! I'm sure Alecia still loves her family and misses them, but it certainly is a testament to the underlying dysfunction in that household that a child on the brink of adulthood must make a decision to be "with us or against us" -- and not, you know, an 18-year-old child fledging the nest in the most perfectly normal way.

Let's compare: An elderly relative (my mom's first cousin) died two years ago. She was eulogized in the most moving and beautiful way by two of her adult (and successful) grandchildren. When the grandkids were in highschool (one girl, one boy) each at one time or another went off to live with their grandmother. They weren't acting out, drinking, doing drugs or being crazy, but they were the children of the high school principal and the guidance counselor in a small town... They know that Mimi would hold the door open and say, "Well now, you just come on in." Their Mimi knew she didn't need to raise them, but just give them a time of unconditional love and lots laughter and the kids knew they were totally accepted as they were and could just be themselves until they were ready to go back and live at home after 6 months or a year.

Unlike Lisa, the mother was not destroyed by a sense of trauma, grief, or betrayal; everybody relaxed, caught their breath and life went on.

Although Lisa wants her daughter back and says she is willing to make changes, Faith knows that she can't get sucked back into the crazy. No Lisa, you are NOT betrayed by your father. I'm not a shrink and I don't play one on TV, BUT it seems like Lisa has misplaced the rage that she feels from Alecia's DEFECTION from the family Lisa onto her dad.

I didn't realized that I had been looking for that word all along to capture the dynamic of what's going on here: Alecia's leaving is perceived as a defection by Lisa.

defection: the desertion of one's country or cause in favor of an opposing one.

[Pastors Daughter]

(snip)

The Daily Mail's interview with the grandfather was interesting. From reading that interview, this is my impression of how it went down. It was NOT a carefully planned daring escape scenario orchestrated beforehand with the grandparents. When the grandfather got in the car to go home from his regular Wednesday weekly visit with the family, Alecia/Faith got in the car to leave with him. The grandfather refused to take Alecia with him without the parent's knowledge and consent. Much discussion discussion ensued between the Pennington parents (Lisa and James) and Alecia. Ultimately, Alecia adamantly refused to stay, so she went off with grandad.

So Lisa, here's the question: If the Bible says you MUST honor and obey your parents, why are you shunning YOUR parents? I know it also says that you must leave your mother and father and cleave to your spouse, but hey, the requirement to honor your father and mother (even into adulthood) seems absolute to me. But of course, this isn't being addressed and won't be addressed in the future because the ultimate betrayal is leaving Lisa, and that can NEVER be forgiven.

This is so sad all the way around: a grandfather cut off from his grandchildren, Alecia is cut off from her siblings and from her parents! I'm sure Alecia still loves her family and misses them, but it certainly is a testament to the underlying dysfunction in that household that a child on the brink of adulthood must make a decision to be "with us or against us" -- and not, you know, an 18-year-old child fledging the nest in the most perfectly normal way.

Let's compare: An elderly relative (my mom's first cousin) died two years ago. She was eulogized in the most moving and beautiful way by two of her adult (and successful) grandchildren. When the grandkids were in highschool (one girl, one boy) each at one time or another went off to live with their grandmother. They weren't acting out, drinking, doing drugs or being crazy, but they were the children of the high school principal and the guidance counselor in a small town... They know that Mimi would hold the door open and say, "Well now, you just come on in." Their Mimi knew she didn't need to raise them, but just give them a time of unconditional love and lots laughter and the kids knew they were totally accepted as they were and could just be themselves until they were ready to go back and live at home after 6 months or a year.

Unlike Lisa, the mother was not destroyed by a sense of trauma, grief, or betrayal; everybody relaxed, caught their breath and life went on.

Although Lisa wants her daughter back and says she is willing to make changes, Faith knows that she can't get sucked back into the crazy. No Lisa, you are NOT betrayed by your father. I'm not a shrink and I don't play one on TV, BUT it seems like Lisa has misplaced the rage that she feels from Alecia's DEFECTION from the family Lisa onto her dad.

I didn't realized that I had been looking for that word all along to capture the dynamic of what's going on here: Alecia's leaving is perceived as a defection by Lisa.

Agree completely, Howl. I think a very telling quote from James Pennington about Faith's defection was stated by the grandfather in the Daily Mail article:

"'Eventually I told my son-in-law I had to take her, she is my grandchild and that is what she wanted.' He (James Pennington) said, 'Fine, but you are not welcome back here again.'"

No desire to work it out, no hope for future reconciliation. James just posted a No Trespassing sign and pointed the way off their property. That's cold.

[browncoatslytherin]

That's cold.

lots of fundies are cold like that. my parents shunned my brother for being gay. my mother struggled with it a lot over the years, and i think some of her depression issues were due to that, but my father was seemingly unaffected by it at all. same thing when it came to me...since i wasn't living exactly the way he wanted me to live, he wouldn't help me out and instead i had to live in an unheated camper trailer through two pennsylvania winters. not that i was expecting total handouts, but i couldn't get into school on my own because i wasn't 24 and he wouldn't help me. i'm not a parent, but i couldn't imagine condemning my child to suffer through nigh-homelessness and not help them out in ways that i could just because they weren't "christian enough" for me.

eta: oh, and he also refused to let me get on his insurance (even though it would have been totally affordable for him) and i instead had to suffer for a while without insurance and then get on medicaid.

[Howl]

... I think a very telling quote from James Pennington about Faith's defection was stated by the grandfather in the Daily Mail article:

"'Eventually I told my son-in-law I had to take her, she is my grandchild and that is what she wanted.' He (James Pennington) said, 'Fine, but you are not welcome back here again.'"

No desire to work it out, no hope for future reconciliation. James just posted a No Trespassing sign and pointed the way off their property. That's cold.

Yes, this disrespect to his FIL, a man who came every week to spend the day with his grandchildren.

I have a feeling that James C. is the ultimate hard ass -- a (Biblicaly) loving father who can turn into the cruel patriarch at the drop of a hat and not lose a minute of sleep over it.

Too bad James C. couldn't have foreseen the social media sh*t storm that was brewing on the horizon and thought better of his actions.

[Delilah]

Hold the phone. I can get you the whole Sublett family tree all the way back to Sedan, Ardennes, France. There's a very good chance I'm related to these people.

I'm guessing you're not open to the idea of a family reunion with James. ;)

[Delilah]

lots of fundies are cold like that. my parents shunned my brother for being gay. my mother struggled with it a lot over the years, and i think some of her depression issues were due to that, but my father was seemingly unaffected by it at all. same thing when it came to me...since i wasn't living exactly the way he wanted me to live, he wouldn't help me out and instead i had to live in an unheated camper trailer through two pennsylvania winters. not that i was expecting total handouts, but i couldn't get into school on my own because i wasn't 24 and he wouldn't help me. i'm not a parent, but i couldn't imagine condemning my child to suffer through nigh-homelessness and not help them out in ways that i could just because they weren't "christian enough" for me.

eta: oh, and he also refused to let me get on his insurance (even though it would have been totally affordable for him) and i instead had to suffer for a while without insurance and then get on medicaid.

Sometimes I wish we had a button to indicate that I appreciate what someone wrote, but it sure makes me sad. Liking a post doesn't quite capture what I want to convey. Browncoat, your parents were fools to put their religion before their children. I hope they have a change of heart.

[ViolaSebastian]

How the hell does the father get away with not filing income tax returns? I find that seriously unfair and annoying lol

Grace is her middle name. I don't remember her first name, I'll have to look.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I was talking to my mother, who is a CPA, about all this. I pointed out that the guy was a CPA and she said 'Not for long..."

[browncoatslytherin]

Sometimes I wish we had a button to indicate that I appreciate what someone wrote, but it sure makes me sad. Liking a post doesn't quite capture what I want to convey. Browncoat, your parents were fools to put their religion before their children. I hope they have a change of heart.

thanks, delilah, i understand ya. thankfully, my mother has come around quite a bit, and has even gotten to repair her relationship with my brother. my dad is still as arrogant and narcissistic as ever. i actually had a dream the other night about being forced to go to church with him and then shaking my head like "what am i doing here" and turning around and telling him how rude and inconsiderate he was about it (considering i'm pagan and he knows). i've had several dreams about telling him off for one thing or another. i think my subconscious is still seething at him.

[whoviana]

browncoatslytherin - I know those "what am I doing here" dreams. It is indeed the subconscious. hugs or whatever form of empathy you welcome from another board member.

[countressrascal]

Something in this does not add up-I have worked with the "Lost Boys" also girls that have escaped. We have a network of lawyers and social workers that helped us get their documents re-issued, it takes time and a lot of work but it can be done. Community Colleges here have advisors that work with these kids to get them enrolled and the help that they need.

[browncoatslytherin]

Something in this does not add up-I have worked with the "Lost Boys" also girls that have escaped. We have a network of lawyers and social workers that helped us get their documents re-issued, it takes time and a lot of work but it can be done. Community Colleges here have advisors that work with these kids to get them enrolled and the help that they need.

i'm curious, exactly what do you think doesn't add up? i know getting all kinds of documents together takes time sometimes, especially if the originals aren't immediately available. but if those documents don't exist or wasn't filed with the state, which is what the situation is here, i think it gets exponentially more complicated from there.

genuinely curious, do any community colleges accept students with no ssn? i had to give mine when i went to college. also had to have my birth certificate and an id, though i'm sure individual colleges are different. but i would have thought at least an id and ssn would be required. would an adviser even work with someone that has none of those?

[lucylauser]

Something in this does not add up-I have worked with the "Lost Boys" also girls that have escaped. We have a network of lawyers and social workers that helped us get their documents re-issued, it takes time and a lot of work but it can be done. Community Colleges here have advisors that work with these kids to get them enrolled and the help that they need.

That "network of lawyers and social workers" are exactly what Alecia didn't have. She found a lawyer through the publicity her video got. She tried contacting various people who would be in a position to help but they told her that her case was too low priority.

Not sure what doesn't "add up", unless you're talking about her family's stories. That's what doesn't add up. :roll:

[countressrascal]

That "network of lawyers and social workers" are exactly what Alecia didn't have. She found a lawyer through the publicity her video got. She tried contacting various people who would be in a position to help but they told her that her case was too low priority.

Not sure what doesn't "add up", unless you're talking about her family's stories. That's what doesn't add up. :roll:

Family story just does not add up-if her parents filed income tax they had to have a SS for each of the dependents so she needs to download the form from SS web site reporting a stolen/lost card and she should get it within 6 weeks.

I don't know what state she is in- if she is near a law school they have a volunteer program-students love doing projects like hers'. That is where we get the majority of help along with community colleges.

[Mama Mia]

i'm curious, exactly what do you think doesn't add up? i know getting all kinds of documents together takes time sometimes, especially if the originals aren't immediately available. but if those documents don't exist or wasn't filed with the state, which is what the situation is here, i think it gets exponentially more complicated from there.

genuinely curious, do any community colleges accept students with no ssn? i had to give mine when i went to college. also had to have my birth certificate and an id, though i'm sure individual colleges are different. but i would have thought at least an id and ssn would be required. would an adviser even work with someone that has none of those?

It depends on your state. In California a social security number is not required for Community College enrollment. They actually have a special procedure for people without one. I think this goes back to the border state observation I made before. States on the Mexico / U.S. Border have always had a very large population of people who live there without documentation. So institutions in those states were set up with that in mind. But since the whole anti- "illegal" movement, tied with 9-11, which coincided with big jumps in technology --- those systems have changed radically in a very short time period. Some states -- like Arizona -- have gone one direction and implemented all sorts of regulations to increase paperwork and verification requirements. Other states , like California, have just implemented systems so that people without those documents can utilize state supported services in another way.

From what I've been reading in this thread and then looking up - Texas seems to be a mix. But many of their systems have become much more stringent very recently.

[browncoatslytherin]

Family story just does not add up-if her parents filed income tax they had to have a SS for each of the dependents so she needs to download the form from SS web site reporting a stolen/lost card and she should get it within 6 weeks.

I don't know what state she is in- if she is near a law school they have a volunteer program-students love doing projects like hers'. That is where we get the majority of help along with community colleges.

i thought it has been made abundantly clear thus far that her parents have not filed taxes. read back in the thread.

[browncoatslytherin]

It depends on your state. In California a social security number is not required for Community College enrollment. They actually have a special procedure for people without one. I think this goes back to the border state observation I made before. States on the Mexico / U.S. Border have always had a very large population of people who live there without documentation. So institutions in those states were set up with that in mind. But since the whole anti- "illegal" movement, tied with 9-11, which coincided with big jumps in technology --- those systems have changed radically in a very short time period. Some states -- like Arizona -- have gone one direction and implemented all sorts of regulations to increase paperwork and verification requirements. Other states , like California, have just implemented systems so that people without those documents can utilize state supported services in another way.

From what I've been reading in this thread and then looking up - Texas seems to be a mix. But many of their systems have become much more stringent very recently.

thanks for the info! i went to college in ohio, so definitely not a border state like that. i didn't have any issues with my documents, though, so obviously i'm not sure what exactly could have been done if i hadn't had them.

[Grimalkin]

whether or not a community college would take her without a SS#, she still has a right to get one, if for nothing else than to not have to deal with the hassle.

[Howl]

Don't know where Alecia is living currently. There are law schools in Austin and San Antonio. State offices are in Austin.

[nelliebelle1197]

Family story just does not add up-if her parents filed income tax they had to have a SS for each of the dependents so she needs to download the form from SS web site reporting a stolen/lost card and she should get it within 6 weeks.

I don't know what state she is in- if she is near a law school they have a volunteer program-students love doing projects like hers'. That is where we get the majority of help along with community colleges.

You cannot just walk into a law school and get a volunteer attorney or student. It doesn't work like that at all; in fact, students can't just practice law in any state. Also, this is not about reissue; it is about initial issue. Only one daughter has a birth certificate and it is not Alecia Faith. Laws vary by state; most of the docs she is looking for have state regs governing them. Even if the parents have filed taxes, that does not mean that they have claimed the children as dependents. No need for an SSN then. Have you read all the info in thread? You need to, as many of things you point out have already been addressed repeatedly.

[divadivine]

Will you throw the Golden Gate in free?

Umm... Yes, of course! Because from the front porch you can see the sea!

[Browneyed Girl]

Umm... Yes, of course! Because from the front porch you can see the sea!

And for everyone who has this song stuck in their head now too - raise your hand.

I've been following this mess - I want a front seat at the Pearly Gates when St. Peter asks her parents "and just where do you think YOU'RE going? It's certainly not here". *

* Apologies to anyone who took offence - my lapsed Catholic upbringing raises its sarcastic head every once in a while.

[browncoatslytherin]

I've been following this mess - I want a front seat at the Pearly Gates when St. Peter asks her parents "and just where do you think YOU'RE going? It's certainly not here". *

* Apologies to anyone who took offence - my lapsed Catholic upbringing raises its sarcastic head every once in a while.

oh i would love to be a fly on the gate at that point in time :D (despite the fact that I would rather never go to the christian heaven)

[JesusPony]

Just catching up after the weekend. The proud child abuse posts... just sickening. It's interesting that she was on people's internet radar way back in 2009.

Since they have deleted the facebook post and videos, I am super-curious what her next blog update will be about. "So... about those essential oils"? Awkward. Now, when I see photos of her beautiful home, all I can think of is the child labor that keeps it so spotless.

By the way, Jacob (the oldest son?) is scary as hell.

http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2 ... reclosure/

Link not broken. Tracey Coenen is a forensic accountant who posts regular updates on Mckmama's financial exploits. She might be interested.

Funny you mentioned MckMama, because Lisa's narcissism, umpteen photos of herself, using her children to promote her image, and even the MLM involvement reminds me of Mck.

[divadivine]

And for everyone who has this song stuck in their head now too - raise your hand.

I've been following this mess - I want a front seat at the Pearly Gates when St. Peter asks her parents "and just where do you think YOU'RE going? It's certainly not here". *

* Apologies to anyone who took offence - my lapsed Catholic upbringing raises its sarcastic head every once in a while.

Now the song will be stuck in your head... All hail King George!

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