Pearls 2: Michael, Shoshanna, et al

[JDuggs]

I think the doctors back home didn’t give him any chance of beating this and that’s why they went this route. They weren’t going to give up and God could always provide a miracle. They’re so deep into it now, they probably feel like continuing his treatment here is still the only option, other than giving up.

[MariaariaM]

15 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I assume there are medications that should slow down the build up. That way he doesn’t have to keep doing this painful procedure. I just wish he was in a real hospital. 

I am not a doctor but if it's due to progressive heart failure caused by the pressure from the tumor the only thing I can think of is diuretics, which I'm sure they're already using. Pulmonary edema is awful: you're basically suffocating and drowning simultaneously. Removing it may not be pleasant but leaving it in feels worse.

[Ozlsn]

14 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I think the doctors back home didn’t give him any chance of beating this and that’s why they went this route. They weren’t going to give up and God could always provide a miracle. They’re so deep into it now, they probably feel like continuing his treatment here is still the only option, other than giving up.

Except God could provide a miracle anywhere. I find it really odd how the "you're only saved by faith, works are irrelevant!" crowd overlap so often with the "we must work for this miracle! God will know if we didn't put in the effort!" group. 

Having said that I feel so sorry for them. The prognosis doesn't sound good, and the clinic won't even buy them time in a way that palliative care might. I understand desperately needing to do something, I just wish it was something less expensive that gave them time together.

[JermajestyDuggar]

19 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I think the doctors back home didn’t give him any chance of beating this and that’s why they went this route. They weren’t going to give up and God could always provide a miracle. They’re so deep into it now, they probably feel like continuing his treatment here is still the only option, other than giving up.

But at least he would be home with his young kids. I hate they are out of the country when he could be spending times with his 6 kids. I’m afraid one day Shalom will regret this. And that makes it all even sadder. 

[Howl]

On 5/20/2024 at 8:42 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

But at least he would be home with his young kids. I hate they are out of the country when he could be spending times with his 6 kids.

I assume his condition is such that they can't return home now because he is too weak to travel.  

 

[Giraffe]

35 minutes ago, Howl said:

I assume his condition is such that they can't return home now because he is too weak to travel.  

 

That's the other brutal reality of their distrust. I hope someone from the Pearls' genetic downline rethinks a lot of their paranoia about "the world" after this. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I’m side eyeing anything H4C says to Shalom. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I know the treatment center is very sketchy, but I can't imagine a doctor saying "Your cancer is dying."  (I've never heard an oncologist say that.) But I also can't imagine telling the doctor "No it's dead."  This family always thinks they know more than doctors. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I know the treatment center is very sketchy, but I can't imagine a doctor saying "Your cancer is dying."  (I've never heard an oncologist say that.) But I also can't imagine telling the doctor "No it's dead."  This family always thinks they know more than doctors. 

It may not be a real doctor who said it. Maybe this “doctor” is a naturopath. Some of them call themselves that. When they’re not an actual MD. 

[Howl]

Quote

"You cancer is dying and down 50% in your first 3 weeks here!"

Had his cancer metastasized? 

In my direct experience with people with aggressive metastatic cancer (although not the type he has), that speed and volume of cancer regression doesn't seem...possible. 

 

[marmalade]

I can't believe this "doctor" could say that with a straight face. But then these fools will believe anything to avoid getting real medical care.

[Ozlsn]

Ok. So on Thursday there were three options (and the "BUT God" one).

Friday there was apparently no need for options because the cancer was dying and down 50% after 3 weeks of treatment. 

Was that supposed to have happened in 24 hours because that seems very unlikely.

I really want to know what the immunosuppresive drug they gave him (along with the steroids) was, and what the timeline of all this is supposed to be. I have seen dramatic overnight improvement - but that was using steroids to treat chronic lung disease of prematurity, and had a known mechanism (reduced inflammation which allowed less work to breathe) and also had known side effects. (It also only worked the first two times for as long as the steroids were being delivered, as the dose was reduced the inflammation returned. Third time he'd finally grown enough lung tissue to outpace the inflammation). 

I can see diuretics and steroids making it easier for him to breathe, but I can't see either reducing tumour size, certainly not overnight.

[klein_roeschen]

7 hours ago, marmalade said:

I can't believe this "doctor" could say that with a straight face. But then these fools will believe anything to avoid getting real medical care.

If they got told that from the "doctors" at the treatment center, I woulnd't be surprised by that wording. They use easy language that people can grasp as well as promises no doctor would make. And to milk them further of their money, they tell them that they make progress where non is. I expect them to soon post about how the cancer made a comback or something. And it may sound harsh or heartless, but I don't expect him to live long enough to see fall this year. Not with this non- therapy he is getting.

[hoipolloi]

12 hours ago, Howl said:

Had his cancer metastasized? 

Think it was metastasizing at least according to the various public statements they have made.

The last (and only) bona fide medical evaluation in mid-April said the following:

If the cancer was estimated to have an 80% growth rate at diagnosis it's hard to see how, a little over a month later, it is now "dying" at a rate over 50%. 

I wonder if anyone has successfully sued the H4C quack factory. I'm guessing it would be next to impossible due to jurisdictional issues.

[Howl]

1 hour ago, klein_roeschen said:

And it may sound harsh or heartless, but I don't expect him to live long enough to see fall this year. Not with this non- therapy he is getting.

I have to say that I also feel profound sadness as this scenario plays out.  Cancer, like all fatal illnesses that strike in the prime of life, will break hearts.  There's the sense that "this can't be happening" and one clings to any hope, no matter how desperate.  

Shalom has been conditioned to believe in miracles (the Bible!) and is vulnerable (and ego driven?) to believe that a miracle will happen for her loved one.  If/when Justin passes, her heart will be as broken as anyone's and she'll be raising a passel of kids on her own. If by some chance he beats incredibly long odds and is cured, I'll raise a toast. 

But back to nuts and bolts.  Around May 17, Justin had a blood clot near  his heart and they were getting ready to  consult a surgeon.  Did that happen? Would they zip across the border and have the surgical procedure done in Chula Vista or San Diego? 

Checking out the interwebs, it seems that Hope4Cancer has a tendency to dump people out to a hospital when things get terminal. 

Google a bit.  There are multiple of these alternative cancer treatment centers in Tijuana. There's Oasis of Hope, which seems to combine alternative and conventional treatments and has LOTS of disclaimers. 

 

[hoipolloi]

9 minutes ago, Howl said:

I have to say that I also feel profound sadness as this scenario plays out.

Same here. H4C is just fleecing them out of thousands of dollars while his condition worsens. 

[klein_roeschen]

1 hour ago, hoipolloi said:

I wonder if anyone has successfully sued the H4C quack factory. I'm guessing it would be next to impossible due to jurisdictional issues.

Not only jurisdiction, but also wording of contracts and despite what they claim to the patient and their families, as what they themselfes present them legally. If they preset legally as a spa resort for ill patients, don't present employees there as medical professionals while not and don't offer stuff only medical professionals are legally allowed, they are safe. One thing serious woo peddlers are experts in is how to sell their stuff to unsuspecting people without getting in legal hot waters. And another point, since they seldom are medical professionals they wheren't held to the same standarts or the same jurisdiction as them, like medical malpractise laws for example.

[Howl]

I googled Stage 2b lymphoma.  Chemo (and possibly radiation) might be brutal, but it seems there's a pretty good possibility of surviving with traditional treatment.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

55 minutes ago, Howl said:

I googled Stage 2b lymphoma.  Chemo (and possibly radiation) might be brutal, but it seems there's a pretty good possibility of surviving with traditional treatment.  

Which is sad because this non cure could cause him to die. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

4 hours ago, Howl said:

I googled Stage 2b lymphoma.  Chemo (and possibly radiation) might be brutal, but it seems there's a pretty good possibility of surviving with traditional treatment.  

I have no medical expertise, but I've also heard that Stage 2 is usually pretty treatable. I don't have experience with lymphoma, and different cancers can have different criteria for each stage.  Generally cancer has at least four stages. I would have guessed he was stage 4. Are we sure that's the diagnosis?

[JermajestyDuggar]

That’s one of the stupidest shirts I’ve ever seen. And I’ve seen plenty of FBI (Female Body Inspector) shirts in my lifetime.  
 

It says “Pure Blood” if you’re wondering:

[KWLand]

The problem if this works for his cancer, is they have a large following that will then try (or be too broke to).  The Pearl name needs to stop being connected to Christianity and teachings.  It’s sad all around.  Sad if it doesn’t work because the kids missed out with dad time and sad if it works because more people will then invest in the snake oil.  

It’s still better than some like Karissa and Lori who use hospitals but encourage their follows not to.  And at least it’s a grown adult who is making the decision and not a kid whose parents are playing with his life.  

[MariaariaM]

6 hours ago, KWLand said:

The problem if this works for his cancer, is they have a large following that will then try (or be too broke to).

It won't work. At best he'll have a spontaneous recovery (which is extremely, extremely unlikely but not 100.0000 % impossible) and they'll pretend it's the result of his spa treatment. Same negative effect on their followers, of course, but not proof the quackery works. In reality unless he switches to actual healthcare asap he's simply going to die, probably in a miserable way. And realistically it may be too late to switch already.

[Ozlsn]

18 hours ago, Howl said:

I googled Stage 2b lymphoma.  Chemo (and possibly radiation) might be brutal, but it seems there's a pretty good possibility of surviving with traditional treatment.  

Location plays a role, as does speed or growth and how much it's spread. The aggressive treatment offered sounds like they were trying to get it before it spread and did more damage (invading heart, spine or brain is not great for your odds, or your quality of life). 

And they decided to go and let it spread despite reasonable odds of being here in 5 years. Of being with his family for another 5 years. I just don't understand people at times. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Ozlsn said:

Location plays a role, as does speed or growth and how much it's spread. The aggressive treatment offered sounds like they were trying to get it before it spread and did more damage (invading heart, spine or brain is not great for your odds, or your quality of life). 

And they decided to go and let it spread despite reasonable odds of being here in 5 years. Of being with his family for another 5 years. I just don't understand people at times. 

I personally blame how Shalom was raised. They’ve always pushed alternative medicine in that family. It makes sense she would believe H4C and their bulls hit claims.