Josie had seizure for 15 mins before EMT arrive- People Mag

[LittleOleMe]

I'm assuming that Josie is okay since there hasn't been any new information that would suggest otherwise. However this incident suggests that something seriously wrong could be occurring to her on a neurological level, even if she seems fairly robust on camera. I hope that she is getting some kind if help off-camera, but I'm not optimistic. Somehow I think JB and Michelle think that as long as Josie can do one day do basic housework, simple arithmetic, and read at a third grade level then she'll be "normal."

Sounds like Pris.

Nothing will ever be wrong with their preshus snowflake. Never.

[Cleopatra7]

Sounds like Pris.

Nothing will ever be wrong with their preshus snowflake. Never.

I'm actually afraid that Josie is going to end up exactly like Priscilla, married to a man who barely tolerates her and stuck in a bad situation she barely understands. Either that or she'll be babied forever and forced to stay at home to care for JB and Michelle. I don't think that the extra attention Josie receives from Michelle is necessarily a good thing, since Michelle has been shown to be missing a few cards in her deck, so to speak.

[LittleOleMe]

I'm actually afraid that Josie is going to end up exactly like Priscilla, married to a man who barely tolerates her and stuck in a bad situation she barely understands. Either that or she'll be babied forever and forced to stay at home to care for JB and Michelle. I don't think that the extra attention Josie receives from Michelle is necessarily a good thing, since Michelle has been shown to be missing a few cards in her deck, so to speak.

Oh I completely agree with you. I wonder if Priscilla had any sort of seizures as a child. Wasn't she also premature? Obviously not that severely, but I thought someone on here mentioned she was born early. Or maybe that was just speculation. Anyhow, I agree that Josie will likely end up like Priscilla. She will be easily manipulated bc she's so babied now as it is and she may very well have developmental issues. A man will take advantage of that and it won't be good. At all. Hopefully her older siblings will make sure something like that doesn't happen to her, but I'm not so sure they will. Jordyn, especially, has every reason not to like her, and even if realizes it's not Josie's fault she was thrown away before her first birthday, it won't make it any easier to help protect her. Jennifer and Hannie may or may not care about her either. Mac is too far removed from Josie, so unless Josh and Anna move back to Arkansas, they won't grow up together. Jill will be way too busy with her own version of 19KAC. Jessa will either be miserable with her own children or busy with Bin's "church" and their endless pursuit of adoption :roll: Jinger will (hopefully) be living off somewhere that isn't in Fundidom. I don't think Joy is particularly close to any of the younger kids bc she doesn't want to be charge. She doesn't like the responsibility and I honestly don't see her having very many children - if any - any time in the next ten years. Josie's only real hope of salvation is either in herself (which is unlikely given how babied she is and the Duggars built-in lack of critical thinking skills) or in Jana, but I really have no idea about Jana. I can't tell her if she's staying around out of guilt to make sure her siblings are happy or if she's purposely avoiding marriage right now so as to limit her number of children or if JB and J'chelle are making sure she doesn't have any suitors bc they need her to raise the younger kids. Or if those rumors are true about one of the older children being paid to stay on the show even though s/he has absolutely no intention of staying in the lifestyle. I wouldn't be surprised if JB and J'chelle married Josie off to an older man with some money (and possibly a child or two from a dead wife) with the condition that he allow them to live in the home in their final days. Maybe Josie will even get the TTH in that deal.

Just to note, I worry about these outcomes for Josie, not just bc she was so premature, and that is part of the reason, but bc she's the last child. If Josie hadn't survived, this would be Jordyn's fate. And it's possible she would be worse off bc the baby after her was actually born alive and then died, as opposed to Jubliee being a miscarriage stillborn. I don't know that Josie would be as babied as she is if the Jubilee debacle had never happened, as in if the pregnancy never happened. And if Jubilee had actually be born and survived, Josie would have been thrown away, just as like Jordyn and all the rest have been, just like she will be if J'chelle ever managed to "catch a baby" again, which is still a possibility, albeit a very small one.

[Sjestings]

Thanks for the clarification, happy atheist.

Back to Josie's seizures. I wonder if she had a head injury from falling and nobody noticed, or they noticed and she seemed ok. I mean the little ones are quite rowdy. Isn't it true that symptoms of a brain in jury don't manifest immediately after the injury?

Speaking from experience yes that is possible. My Son was hit in the head at school one day. When I picked him up he was fine, but about an hour after we got home he started throwing up. I took him to the ER where he then had 2 seizures. It was very scary.

[DaffyDill]

Thanks for the clarification, happy atheist.

Back to Josie's seizures. I wonder if she had a head injury from falling and nobody noticed, or they noticed and she seemed ok. I mean the little ones are quite rowdy. Isn't it true that symptoms of a brain in jury don't manifest immediately after the injury?

Brain injury, strokes, and brain infections can cause epilepsy. However, if Josie has it, there may be no obvious cause. With a large majority of epileptics, myself included, there often is no apparent reason for their epilepsy.

Not all seizures mean a person is epileptic, either. Other conditions such as diabetes, excessive alcohol intake and high temperatures can bring on seizures which aren't necessarily epilepsy related. Maybe Josie's seizure was a febrile one.

Epilepsy can also have a genetic link where more than one family members have seizures, or sometimes it is a single gene abnormality.

[nastyhobbitses]

I'm assuming that Josie is okay since there hasn't been any new information that would suggest otherwise. However this incident suggests that something seriously wrong could be occurring to her on a neurological level, even if she seems fairly robust on camera. I hope that she is getting some kind if help off-camera, but I'm not optimistic. Somehow I think JB and Michelle think that as long as Josie can do one day do basic housework, simple arithmetic, and read at a third grade level then she'll be "normal."

I really wouldn't put it past the Duggars to minimize or bury any genuine problems that Josie may have, even if they come out on camera, since she's the Magical Miracle Baby. A five-year-old having a seizure for over 15 minutes is bad. A five-year-old who has seizures lasting over 15 minutes who needs help eating cereal very, very likely has some issues (unless that's just Jill/Michelle infantilizing her). I really worry for Josie. The biggest thing that scares me is if she genuinely has a developmental delay and her parents decide to marry her off with little regard for her ability to consent. Even if it's not that serious, I still worry that, if she has a disability, she won't get the support she needs to reach her full potential. Plenty of people with disabilities live full, happy, productive, and independent lives because they were given a good education tailored to their needs and had a supportive family who acknowledged and accepted their limitations, but still pushed them to succeed and be as independent as possible. Regardless, infantilizing Josie or trying to minimize her problems will only hinder her in life, whether she has a disability or not.

[fabkiwi06]

idk... but speculating on josie having disabilities makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. it's like speculating on the kids sexual orientations - I feel like there's maybe a line that needs to be clarified.

It's so hard to make any kind of judgement on these things based on what we see on an edit TV show. Who knows what they leave out or add in to make the storyline and "character".

[eh02]

idk... but speculating on josie having disabilities makes me all kinds of uncomfortable. it's like speculating on the kids sexual orientations - I feel like there's maybe a line that needs to be clarified.

It's so hard to make any kind of judgement on these things based on what we see on an edit TV show. Who knows what they leave out or add in to make the storyline and "character".

It is pretty hard not to notice some typically age inappropriate ways they treat her (the stroller, the spoon feeding) that we aren't really given any other explanation for.

I understand the need for privacy regarding your children's health. But they tossed that out the window a long time ago. What's the point in airing your kid's seizure on TV and pretending you're being an open book while keeping other things private? It just makes them look bad, like they are stunting the poor girl's development when they baby her this way. And if she DOES have developmental issues, they should really decide to either just be totally honest about them or not talk about them at all. Not awkwardly dance around it and hope that nobody notices Josie is about to turn 5 and won't feed herself.

[Fundie Bunny]

I'm no expert, but Josie doesn't strike me as a child with major problems. I think the problem here is her ''parents''. I think josie is just a little brat who has been babied way too much. Is she guilty of this? No way. Her shitty and neglectful parents are. And the sister who "raised" her, because a teen sister won't be good at rising a child, but also who are gulty of poor jana raising a child who isn't hers? Michelle and jim bob.

It may seem like josie got the golden ticket, but she hasn't. She will be the one to leave the cult

[Mama Mia]

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it a hundred more times. But how on earth are people looking at this completely average acting 4 1/2 year old and seeing a " spoiled brat" ? I raised a bunch of kids. I worked in both regular pre-schools and therapeutic settings with kids who had some issues.

Josie isn't any more demanding or whiney than the vast majority of kids that age. Her two closest in age siblings happen to be on the calmer, more introverted end of average little kids. So her being a little louder stands out more. If she and Hannie or Jill or Jackson were in the same age range she would fit right in.

Using a stroller with a kid that age isn't unusual if they are going to be out and about for a long stretch. Spoon Feeding a kid that age cereal is a little weird -- but it could be a game. Or she's one of the billion pre-schoolers who has some strange obsession about food orders and colors and textures and Jill was just trying to get some food in her and get her out the door. Lots of parents/ caretakers get wrapped up in trying to get a thin child to eat. Not the most effective response usually, but not neccessarily a big deal.

She very well might have some delays. She might just be on the younger range of perfectly normal development for her age. But I don't get how people on the one hand deplore blanket training and " keeping sweet" -- and at the same time harp on any of the kids who show any sort of a more assertive personality.

[Firiel]

I don't know that we see enough of Josie to know if she has developmental delays. Sure, she was riding in a stroller. But when I went to Disneyland, I had a ton of fun playing That Kid is Way Too Big for That Stroller. I saw a boy that must have been eight (and looked totally capable) being pushed around in a stroller. Sometimes parents think it's easier to push their kid around than deal with a whiny, tired kid near the end of a long day. The cereal thing is weird. But have we seen it happen a lot? The other day I was visiting my sister, and my four year old niece handed me her spoon and wanted me to feed her applesauce. The kid is four. She can do it herself. But she was being weirdishly cute and wanted her visiting aunt to feed her. Because I thought it was weirdishly cute and not just weird, I obliged.

[MatthewDuggar]

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it a hundred more times, but Josie does act like a spoiled brat. I am so sick of people saying that this is "average" behavior, for who? Most of the young girls and definitely howlers have this bratty, wild behavior, but Josie since she is babied is bratty x 100. It's a good thing they are all home-schooled they'd never make it in public school acting like they do.

I hope someday manners and quiet behavior will again become "normal".

[eh02]

I think the idea of a kid being a "spoiled brat" at 5 is kind of relative. I don't think Josie is really worse behaved or more self-centered than the average 5 year old. Most 5-year olds are really just beginning to understand other people's needs and feelings.

But she gets special treatment. People carry her around and treat her like a princess while 3 other little girls close to her in age are totally invisible. And I think that's why it's sort of worrisome. Josie on her own is not really that unusually spoiled, but in the context of their family, something is wrong there. She's not just the baby, she's the "miracle." And Jordyn, Jenni and Hannie are just "the other ones." It took me about 3 years to actually know which one was which.

It's very damaging to those other kids to see that there is a clear favorite. And it's damaging to Josie, who is really being encouraged NOT to develop more age appropriate behaviors because her parents would prefer she stay young forever.

I wouldn't say I really worry about Josie any more than the other little girls in the long run. All four of them are going to have a really rough time when they're the last ones in the house, IMO. I don't know if Michelle will be able to relate to four teenage girls that she can't keep busy with babies. There won't be any distractions - just Jim Bob and Michelle in a huge house with just Hannie, Jenni, Jordyn and Josie. Yikes. :|

[shedemei]

I don't know that we see enough of Josie to know if she has developmental delays. Sure, she was riding in a stroller. But when I went to Disneyland, I had a ton of fun playing That Kid is Way Too Big for That Stroller. I saw a boy that must have been eight (and looked totally capable) being pushed around in a stroller.

Do you also make fun of people in wheelchairs who look totally capable? That Person is Way Too Non-Crippled-Looking for That Wheelchair. Or, That Person is Way Too Able to Walk for That Handicapped Parking Permit.

Sometimes parents think it's easier to push their kid around than deal with a whiny, tired kid near the end of a long day.

Has anyone ever talked to one of these mythical parents for confirmation about what they think? Is pushing around a stroller large enough to hold an eight year old all day, then actually having to push around said eight year old, ACTUALLY easier than dealing with a whiny, tired kid? I can't imagine that it would be.

Not having kids myself, I wouldn't know.

[SassyPants]

Yes, pushing small kids, even a 6 year old around is easier than having them walk for 15 hours or worse yet, walking and standing for 15 hours in a row. The thing with Disney is, it's always packed, requires a lot of walking, is expensive, so unless you get a room onsite (even more expensive), you're not leaving the park during the day and there are like 10 seats for every 1,000 butts at the park. We went to Disney over Christmas and we logged 10 miles, on average, a day, walking. No way would little kids make it all day without whining and complaining. Plus when they're in a seat, they are not getting trampled to death.

[LittleOleMe]

Do you also make fun of people in wheelchairs who look totally capable? That Person is Way Too Non-Crippled-Looking for That Wheelchair. Or, That Person is Way Too Able to Walk for That Handicapped Parking Permit.

Has anyone ever talked to one of these mythical parents for confirmation about what they think? Is pushing around a stroller large enough to hold an eight year old all day, then actually having to push around said eight year old, ACTUALLY easier than dealing with a whiny, tired kid? I can't imagine that it would be.

Not having kids myself, I wouldn't know.

You are trying way too hard to look for something to offend you. It was a game within her group and it's not like she was point it out to everyone she saw. Seriously. Get over yourself. Plus, last I checked, strollers and wheel chairs look radically different.

And since you admit you don't have children and wouldn't know, you again can get over yourself with this patronizing bullshit. Most people on here either have kids or raised their siblings or were nannies. Is it easier to push around an older child in a stroller when in a place like Disney all fucking day long instead of dealing with a whiny tired child?? Have you ever been around a child?? Of course it's easier to just push them in a stroller than deal with the whining. It's also convenient to have a stroller of some sort in places to carry around all the random shit you bought. Bc it's fucking Disney and you buy more shit there then you ever thought possible. But we aren't talking about the Duggars being in Disney - bc they would never visit such a godless place - or being anywhere for long periods of time. We're talking about the Duggars pushing Josie around in a stroller all the fucking time like she's two. She's not two. She five. Either something is wrong with her - and if it is, I really hope they're getting her the help she needs and deserves - or they are babying her beyond anything.

[shedemei]

Jesus Christ. I guess I do need to get over myself. Thanks!

[Firiel]

Do you also make fun of people in wheelchairs who look totally capable? That Person is Way Too Non-Crippled-Looking for That Wheelchair. Or, That Person is Way Too Able to Walk for That Handicapped Parking Permit.

Oh for heaven's sake. When there is an eight year old in a stroller that is made for a four year old and he has the "I'm so cool" look on his face of a teenager driving his first car, I laugh quietly to myself and those with me, yes. Because it is a fucking hilarious (and fucking adorable) sight. And unless Disneyland has a WAY higher rate of young-ish children with disabilities, most of the 6-8 year olds being pushed around in cheap-ass strollers are capable and healthy.

Has anyone ever talked to one of these mythical parents for confirmation about what they think? Is pushing around a stroller large enough to hold an eight year old all day, then actually having to push around said eight year old, ACTUALLY easier than dealing with a whiny, tired kid? I can't imagine that it would be.

Not having kids myself, I wouldn't know.

Well, these particular strollers were quite small (two kids, two parents) and looked like they could be easily folded up and carried. So I doubt the pushing happened all day. I think there were times at Disneyland where it would have been easier to put ME in a stroller made for a four year old and push me around than deal with my whining.

[Mama Mia]

I've said it before, and I'm sure I'll say it a hundred more times, but Josie does act like a spoiled brat. I am so sick of people saying that this is "average" behavior, for who? Most of the young girls and definitely howlers have this bratty, wild behavior, but Josie since she is babied is bratty x 100. It's a good thing they are all home-schooled they'd never make it in public school acting like they do.

I hope someday manners and quiet behavior will again become "normal".

And I think grown ass adults who call random small children " spoiled brats", based on edited tiny snippets of their televised lives are both clueless and ridiculous.

What eXactly does she do that is so offensive? And for fucks sake- she wouldn't NEED to make it in public school at this point- because we haven't seen her at an age where she would even be in public school. :roll:

And I'll say " average" based on having an Associates Degree in Early Childhood Education. worked in several pre- schools, raised a large family, and worked as a Social Worker with families for almost 20 years.

If you have a camera following around a bunch of small children they will sometimes squabble. They will sometimes whine. They will sometimes be annoying and obnoxious and clingy. That's called life. If you put a four year old in a " talking head" with other kids and ask her questions and prompt reactions -- do you expect her to act like a professional? :wtf:

How is she even treated especially different than the other kids? We've seen one episode where Michelle scolded a little girl for picking on her. Many people freaked out and said how awful that was. Another episode showed Josie being scolded for getting upset because another kid got to do something -- people mostly were happy that " finally" Josie was being told off. It's freaking creepy and disturbing how hateful people are toward one small child.

The television focus has been more on her, because she had an interesting an dramatic birth and infancy. I'm sure the family was focused on the medical concerns initially as well. But these people do have actual lives that are happening off -screen. Those off- screen hours take up the vast majority of their actual daily lives. the kids who aren't the focus of a season's storyline aren't just put in a bubble until they are on air. We've seen a 4 year old act younger than her 5 and 7 year old siblings . Considering a year is 20% of her entire life span -- that's certainly to be expected. And even a " normal" 4 year old is going to have a huge range in development. Having difficulty sharing resources with or taking turns with siblings at age 4 isn't good or bad. It just is part of being a kid. Some kids are more easy going and learn those skills more quickly. that isn't good or bad either. Just like the kid who enters puberty at 10 isn't going to be more advanced or successful at life than the child who doesn't begin puberty until 13. It's just different times on a range. That's all.

[TeaELSee]

I'm skipping back to the original post. I did have a son, (full term) that had a seizure disorder/underlying disease and I've watched too many seizures. I have discussed him before in a previous thread. Josie does not have what my son did. (Dravet's syndrome)

However:

Josie having a prolonged seizure would concern me especially if it lasted 30 minutes or more. That is defined and status epilepticus and can be life threatening.

30 minutes seems plausible considering the timeline the press was given.

She seized 15 minutes before the ambulance got there plus still seizing when she arrived at the hospital is really scary. One episode does not define if indeed she has a an underlying chronic problem due to her extreme prematurity or if she was just really sick and has a low seizure threshold.

Chances are they gave her Ativan or something to stop the seizure in the ER, therefore theoretically it would have lasted longer without medical intervention.

She does seem to have some delays but overall she is doing quite well considering how dicey things were for her.

ETA* This article addresses her increased risk for developing epilepsy. I truly hope she doesn't.

https://www.aan.com/PressRoom/Home/PressRelease/988

[MatthewDuggar]

She does seem to have some delays but overall she is doing quite well considering how dicey things were for her.

From the few snippets of her life that we see, I don't really see any delays at all, she seems normal. If they would just stop treating her differently than the other young girls, we'd probably be praising her development. :roll:

[txmommyof4]

Sometimes my 4 y/o gets so impatient wanting to do other things that he won't eat. He is just too busy. So I say here, eat this bite, then this bite...you get the idea. And I end up feeding him. It doesn't happen often but when it does It's because it's worth it to get food in that skinny little body. If I put him in school they would likely send him home in a cage. Sometimes, when he's really mad he growls and stamps his foot. He can write, knows how to count backward and do subtraction. Because of when his birthday falls he will be almost 6 when he can start school. That's probably a good thing. He is hands down the most difficult of my 4 kids. He also was a 30 week preemie. And guess what, he's a NORMAL kid. From what I can see, so is Josie. Kids are all So different so I guess , really, normal makes no sense anyway.

[SassyPants]

I am far more concerned with running and screaming in the house, jumping off the stairs, pogo sticking, skating and bike riding indoors. Walking on the counters with dirty feet...overall lack of discipline and instruction on proper inside vs outside behaviors. The inability to nicely sit in a restaurant and eat what is served- if that is too great a task, a parent needs to stay at home with those who are too young and immature to be in that particular venue.

Feeding a 5 yo (she was 4 at the time) or riding in a stroller bothers me less.

It's all indicative of LAZY parenting and too many kids for one couple to handle. JB and M do not give a sh*t- they are beyond that.

[Andora]

I'm curious how many of you all actually have had more than one kid. I have three, and have done foster parenting, as well as worked in several daycares over the years. Josie is not that abnormal or terrible. She is a busy kid, some kids are like that. She may have some sensory processing problems or ADD from being a preemie. But every normal four year old has tantrums and moments of impatience when they're overstimulated, overtired, or really excited. Parents refer to them as the F*cking Fours for a reason. Every four year old has ridiculous amounts of energy at times, especially if you feed them fruit loops. ;)

I wonder if Jill was just enjoying spending time with Josie. She probably had already gotten her dressed, cleaned up the table, and wanted Josie to eat quickly before Jinger got there without making a mess. I doubt Josie is hand fed every single meal. My perfectly normal four year old dribbles milk everywhere and gets her shirt messy when eating cereal sometimes and if I were in a big hurry I might feed her if she'd let me!

Also keep in mind Josie was born very early, so you should subtract months from her age. She have been 4 at the time, but likely developmentally closer to 3.

About strollers: It's not weird for older kids to ride in the stroller during a long, hot day at Disney. Even 8 year olds have shorter legs than adults, they tire quicker. My four year old has ridden in our stroller in museums or at long events when she needs a break and we want to keep on going. It's pretty normal. That's why strollers were invented.

Josie may not have the lung capacity of a regular preschooler since she was premature and on oxygen for a long time. It doesn't mean she needs therapy, or that TLC and the Duggars are hiding something. It just means she probably tires easier than average when they're out and about.

[SassyPants]

And strollers are used for containment too- of both humans and purchased items. Parents can move much faster and cover more ground with a younger child in a stroller, without constantly having to keep an eye on them in a crowd or holding them-

Anyone who is complaining about a younger child in a stroller in an active, crowded, busy venue, has either never had kids or has selective amnesia.