Josie had seizure for 15 mins before EMT arrive- People Mag

[RosyDaisy]

Never had the chance, my son died due to a seizure when he was 11 about 10 years ago. He had Dravet's syndrome. A specific cannibus has been PROVEN to help these kids, yet of course it becomes political. How dare anyone block helping a child based on fear of pot?

I'm so sorry for your loss. Alabama has legalized marijuana for this specific reason only. The treatment is only available at UAB Medical Center in Birmingham. Google Carly's Law for more details.

I agree that children shouldn't have to suffer because of a bunch of ignorant, ass backwards lawmakers.

[lascuba]

But that's my point. How is it more effective to say she's a " miracle" because she survived at that point? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to say something like " this is our daughter Josie. Due to a medical emergency she had to be delivered at 25 weeks gestation. It was very scary and rough. Because of progress in health care care most children like her survive and have little or no permanent issues. Yet abortion is legal at 25 weeks gestation in many places" I just don't get how going on about how rare and miraculous it is that she survived is making their case?

They don't think that deeply about these things. This might vary by state, but 25 weeks is where, legally, doctors have to take measure to keep a baby born at that age alive (resuscitation, etc.). Younger than that they let parents decide if they want extraordinary measures or just comfort care. IIRC, Michelle had severe preeclampsia that necessitated a premature delivery. I highly doubt that there are many women carrying a wanted pregnancy in that situation would say, "Well, I want an abortion, then." I doubt doctors even present that as an option for preeclampsia. It's, this baby needs to come out NOW, and an induction or c-section happens. No way did Michelle or Jim Bob gave it any kind of deep thought at the time.

Those "I survived Roe v Wade" shirts are so ridiculous. Yeah, what a deep point they're making: "I exist because my mother wanted me when it would have been better if she hadn't wanted me but had me anyway because the law gave her no other option."

[twinmama]

Sorry, didn't mean to imply that it was at all easy to have a preemie that early. Or that there aren't major obstacles and risks of permanent disability or death. Or that the first months and years aren't incredibly stressful and a minefield. But statistically, most 25 weekers do survive, and most don't have major long term issues. Major advancements in the last few years seem to be putting 22 and 23 weekers closer to the "miracle" category. In that in very,very rare instances they might survive without major disabilities.

No worries. I suppose technically "most" survive, 55% at 25 weeks. It is amazing how advancements are helping younger and younger preemies to live.

But, of those 55% of 25 weekers who survive, 20-30% have severe disabilities, and 25-40% will have mild to moderate disabilities. Not that any of this means people shouldn't be trying to keep premature babies born at 25 weeks alive.

Prematurity and abortion and viability is such a crazy issue to contemplate. Having preemies myself made me think about that a lot. Still am and always will be prochoice, though viability getting earlier and earlier makes things interesting (tho obviously most babies aborted near viability have an incompatible with life diagnosis I presume).

[Mama Mia]

No worries. I suppose technically "most" survive, 55% at 25 weeks. It is amazing how advancements are helping younger and younger preemies to live.

But, of those 55% of 25 weekers who survive, 20-30% have severe disabilities, and 25-40% will have mild to moderate disabilities. Not that any of this means people shouldn't be trying to keep premature babies born at 25 weeks alive.

Prematurity and abortion and viability is such a crazy issue to contemplate. Having preemies myself made me think about that a lot. Still am and always will be prochoice, though viability getting earlier and earlier makes things interesting (tho obviously most babies aborted near viability have an incompatible with life diagnosis I presume).

It's amazing how fast the viability age is dropping. For example , some of the newer reports have 24 weekers at the above 50% threshold. With 25 weekers at 60-80% survival. What's really good news is that the risks of major disabilities seem to be also dropping. And some of these advances seem to be even in the 5 years since Josie was born. Incredible.

Personally, I'm anti- abortion that late in pregnancy - unless it's an incompatible with life issue. I do know two women who had elective abortions in the 18-22 week range, in an area where there aren't any hoops to jump through and abortion access in the first trimester is very, very easy, I have some serious reservations about how ethical that is -- but from a medical standpoint that is still too early to be viable. Who knows in ten or twenty years though.

[ScarletStarlet]

From my understanding of the issues around micro preemie survival is that we're pretty much at the edge of viability with 23 seekers and even with significant medical advances we might only extend viability by a day or two. This is because of the development of the fetus in the womb, you just can't replace the conditions in the womb at this stage.

Even something as simple as feeding a micro preemie is filled with complications. You can damage the kidneys and liver unintentionally, the gastrointestinal tract isn't fully developed and ready to handle liquids, the kidneys aren't ready, the liver isn't at its full ability to filter blood.

Lungs aren't fully developed but can be boosted with steroids. But the steroid treatment provides more complications to other organs. Supplemental oxygen is necessary, but too much oxygen can damage the vascular system. Micro preemies can have problems with eyesight due to oxygen damage.

This whole balancing act is complicated. It's complicated for a 30 weeker, and gets progressively harder the less developed a fetus is.

[Mama Mia]

From my understanding of the issues around micro preemie survival is that we're pretty much at the edge of viability with 23 seekers and even with significant medical advances we might only extend viability by a day or two. This is because of the development of the fetus in the womb, you just can't replace the conditions in the womb at this stage.

Even something as simple as feeding a micro preemie is filled with complications. You can damage the kidneys and liver unintentionally, the gastrointestinal tract isn't fully developed and ready to handle liquids, the kidneys aren't ready, the liver isn't at its full ability to filter blood.

Lungs aren't fully developed but can be boosted with steroids. But the steroid treatment provides more complications to other organs. Supplemental oxygen is necessary, but too much oxygen can damage the vascular system. Micro preemies can have problems with eyesight due to oxygen damage.

This whole balancing act is complicated. It's complicated for a 30 weeker, and gets progressively harder the less developed a fetus is.

I'm not a medical person, but it seems like at some point the only way they could push extremely premature survival dates back any further would be if they find ways to have the baby continuing to develop as a fetus, not a newborn. So some sort of artificial womb type environment, where organs and systems can form without the stress of digestion, breathing air etc. Since that is still the stuff of Science Fiction ( at least as far as I know :) ) , I don't think there will ever be more than the occassional extremelyrare 22 week serving preemie. But they do seem to be doing some pretty amazing things with the 24 - 27 weekers.

[jaynie]

I'm not a medical person, but it seems like at some point the only way they could push extremely premature survival dates back any further would be if they find ways to have the baby continuing to develop as a fetus, not a newborn. So some sort of artificial womb type environment, where organs and systems can form without the stress of digestion, breathing air etc. Since that is still the stuff of Science Fiction ( at least as far as I know :) ) , I don't think there will ever be more than the occassional extremelyrare 22 week serving preemie. But they do seem to be doing some pretty amazing things with the 24 - 27 weekers.

I don't remember the details, but I do recall reading that artificial wombs will likely exist sooner rather than later. Raises some interesting ethical questions for sure. Will you still have the right to abort a fetus with severe medical problems (like the sort that will only result in pain and eventual death) if the fetus can be transferred to an artificial womb and brought to term, for example? But on the flip side it would probably mean that male/male couples and certain infertile couples could have biological children. But then again, if that's reserved for the wealthy elite it could be super dodgy. And so on. Anyway, the point is basically that science fiction and science fact are often much more alike than you'd think!

[twinmama]

From my understanding of the issues around micro preemie survival is that we're pretty much at the edge of viability with 23 seekers and even with significant medical advances we might only extend viability by a day or two. This is because of the development of the fetus in the womb, you just can't replace the conditions in the womb at this stage.

Even something as simple as feeding a micro preemie is filled with complications. You can damage the kidneys and liver unintentionally, the gastrointestinal tract isn't fully developed and ready to handle liquids, the kidneys aren't ready, the liver isn't at its full ability to filter blood.

Lungs aren't fully developed but can be boosted with steroids. But the steroid treatment provides more complications to other organs. Supplemental oxygen is necessary, but too much oxygen can damage the vascular system. Micro preemies can have problems with eyesight due to oxygen damage.

This whole balancing act is complicated. It's complicated for a 30 weeker, and gets progressively harder the less developed a fetus is.

Those steroid treatments can work wonders! I was lucky enough to hold off delivery long enough to get my two doses and the full effect of the steroids and my two 29 weekers never needed to be on a vent! 25 days on CPAP and cannula, then breathing on their own.

[Firiel]

I'm not a medical person, but it seems like at some point the only way they could push extremely premature survival dates back any further would be if they find ways to have the baby continuing to develop as a fetus, not a newborn. So some sort of artificial womb type environment, where organs and systems can form without the stress of digestion, breathing air etc. Since that is still the stuff of Science Fiction ( at least as far as I know :) ) , I don't think there will ever be more than the occassional extremelyrare 22 week serving preemie. But they do seem to be doing some pretty amazing things with the 24 - 27 weekers.

I bet you're right about how some sort of artificial womb setup will be needed before preemies can be survive at earlier stages than they do now. But since science fiction has a decent track record of turning into science reality(ish!), I wouldn't be surprised if one day this type of environment is possible. Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, though! :)

[Mama Mia]

I bet you're right about how some sort of artificial womb setup will be needed before preemies can be survive at earlier stages than they do now. But since science fiction has a decent track record of turning into science reality(ish!), I wouldn't be surprised if one day this type of environment is possible. Maybe I'm just overly optimistic, though! :)

I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't done it yet. I remember when I was a kid a million years ago and artificial wombs were a big part of many science fiction scenarios. It's one of those things like flying cars that I figured would happen in my lifetime. Definitely would raise a ton of ethical dilemmas.

[FJismyheadship]

www.change.org%2Fp%2Fthe-duggar-family- ... ncial-gain

Petition to stop Josie's seizure from airing.

[keen23]

I'm actually kind of surprised they haven't done it yet. I remember when I was a kid a million years ago and artificial wombs were a big part of many science fiction scenarios. It's one of those things like flying cars that I figured would happen in my lifetime. Definitely would raise a ton of ethical dilemmas.

Artificial wombs were the whole basis of society in Huxley's Brave New World. The mix of hormones/drugs/whatevers given to the fetus in the womb set up their life and place in society. Alphas and Betas rule society, while Gammas, Deltas and Epsilons are the drudges and workers.

[FakePigtails]

http://www.change.org%2Fp%2Fthe-duggar-family-and-tlc-network-stop-the-airing-of-josie-s-seizures-medical-condition-for-their-financial-gain

Petition to stop Josie's seizure from airing.

Here's a working link for anyone interesting in viewing/signing it: https://www.change.org/p/the-duggar-fam ... ncial-gain

[Fluffypaws]

I hope more FJ'ers see this petition. I'm signing it.

[momof2treasures]

Do we know that the network is actually planning to show the actual seizure though? I'm expecting they will show the flurry of the emergency but not Josie herself. Many on here have posted criticism about the duggars not being honest about Josie's health issues . In some ways, this shows that not everything is all roses in the family. I understand the privacy concerns but that ship has already sailed and I think it's a little silly to have a petition before even seeing the episode.

[eh02]

Do we know that the network is actually planning to show the actual seizure though? I'm expecting they will show the flurry of the emergency but not Josie herself. Many on here have posted criticism about the duggars not being honest about Josie's health issues . In some ways, this shows that not everything is all roses in the family. I understand the privacy concerns but that ship has already sailed and I think it's a little silly to have a petition before even seeing the episode.

You could see Jana crying and holding Josie in the promo. The whole mess is exploitative of Josie AND poor Jana, who obviously looked like a fucking mess because she was alone and responsible for a child she probably thought could die right in front of her.

The Duggars hide their "real lives" from us all the time. Every moment we see on the show is scripted, and of all candid things to include, they're airing their 5 year old having a seizure? It's pretty despicable.

[FJismyheadship]

Here's a working link for anyone interesting in viewing/signing it: https://www.change.org/p/the-duggar-fam ... ncial-gain

Thanks, I copied the link from facebook, so I guess it came out wrong.

[Eatingintheprayercloset]

Eh, maybe they will air a PSA of Michelle at the end of the episode talking about seizure awareness and what to do when your child is having one? Since there's a lot of moms who watch 19KaC.

Actually maybe Jana should do it instead since Josie is basically her kid. :roll:

[eh02]

They could easily cover some of the aftermath of the seizure (just recap it and have them talk about what happened) without showing the footage and still get a PSA in.

There's no use trying to make this not seem exploitative. It is. Plain and simple. Josie can't consent to her parents and a TV network raking in cash as viewers gawk at her from home while she has a medical emergency.

[drivingmishcrazy]

Eh, maybe they will air a PSA of Michelle at the end of the episode talking about seizure awareness and what to do when your child is having one? Since there's a lot of moms who watch 19KaC.

Actually maybe Jana should do it instead since Josie is basically her kid. :roll:

I'd actually put money on this. Hopefully it's accurate information.

[CorruptionInc.]

Eh, maybe they will air a PSA of Michelle at the end of the episode talking about seizure awareness and what to do when your child is having one? Since there's a lot of moms who watch 19KaC.

Actually maybe Jana should do it instead since Josie is basically her kid. :roll:

I wish they'd have asked Mullet to explain where the hell she was when Josie was having said seizure.

[jinseng]

This season of the Duggars has been full of so much good news (weddings, honeymoons, pregnancies, etc) they are probably highlighting a difficult experience just to balance it out. I also expect they will use the experience to praise Jana and highlight how awesome she is at managing these emergency situations. Although, as I understand it, children like Josie who are prone to seizures do not generally require ambulance assistance (unless the seizure goes beyond five minutes, which it did). I suspect she has had other less serious seizures than we know about... There is a link between premature births and epilepsy.

[drivingmishcrazy]

It's possible she's had others that have been less severe or only lasted a minute or two. Not sure if this is universal, but the way my job taught seizure protocol, anything OVER 5 minutes was call 911. So she may be having seizures semi-regularly but this was the first one that was severe enough to warrent emergency care.

[Mama Mia]

I wish they'd have asked Mullet to explain where the hell she was when Josie was having said seizure.

Yes, let's reinforce the extremely unrealistic and misogynistic idea that if anything goes wrong it's become the mother isn't home. good plan!

Because all women should have to explain why they weren't home where they belong with their child when they fell ill/ had an accident/ had absolutely anything go wrong in their lives ever.

Do Michelle and Jim Bob ( cause they actually have two parents ) push too many of their responsibilities on to older siblings? IMHO, absolutely. Should the mom be shamed because her vchild was in the care of a responsible adult when a medical emergency arose? No.

[nastyhobbitses]

They could easily cover some of the aftermath of the seizure (just recap it and have them talk about what happened) without showing the footage and still get a PSA in.

There's no use trying to make this not seem exploitative. It is. Plain and simple. Josie can't consent to her parents and a TV network raking in cash as viewers gawk at her from home while she has a medical emergency.

Not to mention that it takes away her dignity. Would you want a TV camera in your face during a serious medical emergency? Would you want millions of people watching you in distress and pain while your older sister sobs in terror on the phone with the 911 dispatcher? I already think it's in poor taste when the media releases 911 calls (for instance, after River Phoenix died, they played the 911 call from Joaquin Phoenix when he found his brother dying of an overdose), and this is just so much worse. I really, really wish that Mr. Jim, or any other member of the crew, had said "turn off the cameras and the mics, we're not going to film this" and went to help Jana.