Josie had seizure for 15 mins before EMT arrive- People Mag

[Toothfairy]

Is a sibling allowed to make medical decisions when parents are away? And Josie shouldn't have her privacy rights violated for money

[Mama Mia]

Is a sibling allowed to make medical decisions when parents are away? And Josie shouldn't have her privacy rights violated for money

An adult sibling is exactly like any other adult. It's best to have a note signed by the parent authorizing specific adults who care for your children to consent to any needed treatment. But in an emergency life-saving measures will be performed regardless. Think of a family car accident, for example, the E.R. Isn't going to just let Timmy die because his mom and dad are unconscious and can't give their consent.

We always had at least a couple of nearby relatives who had those notes for our kids, and we had authorization notes for relatives kids. When our children became adults we gave them authorization notes as well for their minor siblings -- even if the " adult " was 18 and the " child" was 17! :D You never know when an accident or emergency will happen and I sure wouldn't want treatment delayed while they waited for one of the parents to get their.

I always thought this was really common. Don't most people do something like this, just in case?

Also, I know the filming medical care is one of the big snarkable offenses -- but I think it's good they show that they go to the hospital and use Doctors when needed. You get so many of these fundamentalists who won't go to the Doctor for anything, ever, I think it's good they show you can use medical care when needed. Of course the most strident fundies probably don't watch the show anyway....so maybe it doesn't matter.

[momof2treasures]

There is no rule against filming or photographing a child /pt in the hospital. The objection would be filming while staff is providing care or doing a procedure. That is setting themselves for trouble in the event of a lawsuit. I have taken many pics of my child in the er or hospital while we are sitting around.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

There is no rule against filming or photographing a child /pt in the hospital. The objection would be filming while staff is providing care or doing a procedure. That is setting themselves for trouble in the event of a lawsuit. I have taken many pics of my child in the er or hospital while we are sitting around.

In many hospitals, there are rules about filming or photographing in areas where multiple people are receiving care or waiting for care (at my hospital, I wasn't allowed to take a picture of my broken arm because I was in the cast room), but I'm sure that Josie had her own room. (Which is probably good for everyone because could you imagine being the person who had to share a room with a child of a family that had 19 kids? No thank you.)

[txmommyof4]

There is no rule against filming or photographing a child /pt in the hospital. The objection would be filming while staff is providing care or doing a procedure. That is setting themselves for trouble in the event of a lawsuit. I have taken many pics of my child in the er or hospital while we are sitting around.

This! I have never seen them have a problem with pictures of your own family in a private area. My 14 y/o had me take a bunch of pics of him with all the rabies vaccine he was about to get after a dog bite so he could show his friends (cool points I guess) and proceeded to text them to peopl while getting the injections. The hospital staff didn't care. However, Josie was unconscious AND is a small child so showing that on tv is very inappropriate. But then, so is everything they do.

[MatthewDuggar]

Well and better still JD is a cop and has cop friends. Remember how they staged the fake "pull over" of Jim Bob on the Handcuff episode last season?

[Coconut Flan]

The police car in front of the house was supposedly one Jim Bob bought and it is actually empty but serves to deter people from stopping or trying to get by the get.

[Cleopatra7]

The police car in front of the house was supposedly one Jim Bob bought and it is actually empty but serves to deter people from stopping or trying to get by the get.

Wait, private citizens can buy police cars? :pink-shock: :? That's news to me. It just seems like a police car in the wrong hands could cause havoc, especially in a small rural area where police are scarce so anyone who looks "official" could play cop.

[CorruptionInc.]

Floating Intestines- In my 35 years of nursing, 33 years Nicu and 2 years PICU- all at level 3 centers caring for the most acutely ill and preterm infants and children, I have never heard of this medical diagnosis. I cannot even guess as to what Michelle might be indicating with such a definition.

I call it bogus-

An obstructed intestine (or bowel?) that Josie had was mentioned one time. Maybe Mullet got mixed up? She is delusional after all.

[Rainytown]

This is one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read on the Internet. And that's saying something :roll:

So, let's just start with the most obvious issue -- are you seriously trying to say that parents should be with their children 24/7 ? Suppose they were like the vast majority of children who go to public school? Should their parents hover in the classroom?

Congratulations and welcome to the Internetz. If my comments are the "most ridiculous" you've ever read, you're new, aren't you? Perhaps you might want to visit a few MRA sites in your search for sheer ridiculousness, or maybe a few of the more interesting blogs afoot. It won't take long to find any statement that puts my comments to shame.

Defending the Duggars and their absentee-at-best parenting style is the most ridiculous statement I've read in the past week (at least). Here's a bold fact: If you or anyone else on this site spent as much time shifting your parental duties off on another pre-teen daughter while out of the country or unreachable, you'd be dealing with local authorities at the least who would have at minimum some fairly uncomfortable questions to ask about what type of adult supervision or care those kids were receiving in your absence. Then again, YOUR children actually interact with mandatory reporters such as teachers, sports coaches, ministers, medical professionals, etcetera on a daily basis; the Duggars have made sure their kids are isolated from anyone else that might ask what's going on at home.

You bet I believe that parents have a responsibility to actually raise their own children. There are always extenuating circumstances in typical, non-reality-TV families -- going to work. Running the errands necessary to keeping the household going. Sending the kids to school so they actually get an education. When GOOD parents are away from their children for whatever reason, they've made sure there is responsible adult supervision of those children during their absence. They've briefed the sitter, family member or neighbor on emergency contact numbers, the pediatrician's name, bla bla bla. The Duggars don't work outside of the home and have sufficient celebrity to ensure that the local Wal-Mart would be more than happy to accept a list, pick the items off of the grocery shelves and bag them for a family member to pick up, for instance. The usual "extenuating circumstances" really don't apply in their case. "Parenting" is not shoving one's day-to-day responsibilities off on other children in the home because Rick Santorum wants them to attend a rally or one needs to go to Puerto Rico for "marriage enrichment".

Jana, Jill, Jessa and Jinger Duggar aren't responsible to parent their sisters and brothers 24x7 when they have two living, breathing parents who should be DOING THEIR JOB and which we've seen via hundreds of videotaped instances that they're not. They're not away from those kids for "30 minutes at a time". The minor children in that household don't have meaningful interaction with their parents on a regular basis, as we've all noted when a Lost Girl runs for Jana, Jill or Jinger when hurt or afraid. J-Chelle has been shown on-camera struggling to come up with any fact about the likes and dislikes of her children. She doesn't know them. She spends her days anywhere in that house her kids aren't. Jim Boob might deign to speak to his children via microphone during "Bible study" or when there's some type of filming opportunity. And we (again) have seen proof that the Duggars will leave their home and the country for any amount of time they deem necessary and task their four eldest daughters with running the household, which has been going on since those girls were pre-teens. Grandma Mary may be on premises, but she didn't ask to deal with nineteen children, either.

Teachers gain education and train for years in order to deal with the reality of thirty kids in a classroom from 8 AM to 3 PM 180 days a year (at least in Washington State). They are subject to background checks, fingerprinting, drug testing and every other measurement devised to determine whether the adult in question can be trusted with someone else's child during a school day. They're not responsible for the supervision of anyone else's children outside of school hours. If they are, CPS is called and the authorities are involved with a quickness.

Jana Duggar is more than able to deal with what she faces on a daily basis, but she shouldn't have to. She didn't choose to give birth to 21 children. Her parents did. Perhaps they should take responsibility for their own mess. Then again, that would mean that Jim Boob and his child bride would have to take personal responsibility for anything at all, and I don't think they're capable of it.

[LittleOleMe]

Wait, private citizens can buy police cars? :pink-shock: :? That's news to me. It just seems like a police car in the wrong hands could cause havoc, especially in a small rural area where police are scarce so anyone who looks "official" could play cop.

private citizens can buy them at auctions. They're generally cheaper than other used cars and bc they were police cars they were well maintained. But they have ridiculously high miles for not being very old. That being said, the cars are not legal to drive while the lights and such are still on them. All of that must be removed to make them street legal. If they aren't driving it and just letting it sit on private property, it's perfectly legal.

[Rainytown]

The police car in front of the house was supposedly one Jim Bob bought and it is actually empty but serves to deter people from stopping or trying to get by the get.

I'm wondering how he accomplished this when (to my knowledge)it's illegal for non-LEO's to possess a squad car with police department markings. Most local police departments strip off the lettering/signage for surplus cars that are sold to the public.

[Rainytown]

Floating intestines makes me laugh...sorry. but anyway, i am not a doctor (or even a nurse) and I don't play one on TV, either. I am, however, the mom of former 25, 30, and 33 (this one had the most long lasting health issues) week preemies. Seriously, there is no indication whatsoever That Josie is any more fragile than any other small child. Just because a baby starts out fragile doesn't mean they stay that way. My 25 weeker is over 6' tall and around 200 pounds and not the tiniest bit fragile. Josie seems behind because she was babied by a finally unable to conceive mother who had no concept of being without a baby.

IMHO, of course.

Your children were born to parents that (I am sure) made sure they had plenty of love, attention and every possible early intervention available for a premature baby. You were involved and you did your best to make sure your kids had all the care possible.

I wish I believed the same for Josie Duggar.

[calimojo]

private citizens can buy them at auctions. They're generally cheaper than other used cars and bc they were police cars they were well maintained. But they have ridiculously high miles for not being very old. That being said, the cars are not legal to drive while the lights and such are still on them. All of that must be removed to make them street legal. If they aren't driving it and just letting it sit on private property, it's perfectly legal.

Could it be the car that John David uses in his role as Constable? BTW, I have asked this before, but I don't think it was answered: Is JD living at home still?

[gustava]

Could it be the car that John David uses in his role as Constable? BTW, I have asked this before, but I don't think it was answered: Is JD living at home still?

As has been said before: We don't know with certainty.

[Mama Mia]

Ah, Rainytown, you really are a special one aren't you.

And I stand by my statement, that yes, the idea that a 25 year old grown woman shouldn't be able to access care for her little sister is, indeed, one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. And I've been on the Internet a long, long time.

As a matter of fact, in my career, I was a social worker - hence, mandatory reporter. And I would have, politely, responded to anyone who expressed " concerns" about this PARTICULAR situation. And then it would have been the office joke of the day.

Of course the parents should be more involved than they seem to be. Of course they should not have made their young daughters surrogate parents. I think you somewhat overstate -- they weren't going out of the country when the older daughters were pre-teens, as you imply, we often see Jim Bob carrying around a young child, etc.

I think the fact they younger kids are clearly more closely emotionally bonded to their siblings is awful for everyone involved.

But to say that an adult woman, more than old enough to be the child's mother for heavens sake! Shouldn't be left in charge , for whatever length of time , is just - again- comically ridiculous. And to say they should only leave the care of the kids to others in extreme extenuating circumstances is so extreme that I think it would cause serious emotional damage to the child growing up. How would they ever learn to be independent? Or interact with others without their parents interference and interpretation?

You are acting like it was 9 year old Hannie who was left in charge of 5 year old Josie while her parents went on a trip out of the country. Jana is 25. Think of that - 25. On what planet is a 25 year old not capable of managing a household and children?

Whether it should be her on-going responsibility is beside the point. If they were a different family, and her parents were completely hands on, doting and involved. And Jana had a full-time career and lived in her own apartment -- it would still be completely normal for the parents to take a vacation and ask their adult child to come take care of the kids.

[PennySycamore]

Wait, private citizens can buy police cars? :pink-shock: :? That's news to me. It just seems like a police car in the wrong hands could cause havoc, especially in a small rural area where police are scarce so anyone who looks "official" could play cop.

Well, Bob(?) Mayberry Ford in Charlotte, NC used to have Ford police cruiser in their lot that was a replica (don't think it was original) of the patrol car from The Andy Griffith Show

There's a scene early on in John Grisham's latest Gray Mountain where a not-all-there good ol' boy stops people in this "patrol car" yet he's not a member of an L.O. agency. The main character, Samantha, is rescued by a local lawyer that is very important to the story.

[SassyPants]

Ah, Rainytown, you really are a special one aren't you.

And I stand by my statement, that yes, the idea that a 25 year old grown woman shouldn't be able to access care for her little sister is, indeed, one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. And I've been on the Internet a long, long time.

As a matter of fact, in my career, I was a social worker - hence, mandatory reporter. And I would have, politely, responded to anyone who expressed " concerns" about this PARTICULAR situation. And then it would have been the office joke of the day.

Of course the parents should be more involved than they seem to be. Of course they should not have made their young daughters surrogate parents. I think you somewhat overstate -- they weren't going out of the country when the older daughters were pre-teens, as you imply, we often see Jim Bob carrying around a young child, etc.

I think the fact they younger kids are clearly more closely emotionally bonded to their siblings is awful for everyone involved.

But to say that an adult woman, more than old enough to be the child's mother for heavens sake! Shouldn't be left in charge , for whatever length of time , is just - again- comically ridiculous. And to say they should only leave the care of the kids to others in extreme extenuating circumstances is so extreme that I think it would cause serious emotional damage to the child growing up. How would they ever learn to be independent? Or interact with others without their parents interference and interpretation?

You are acting like it was 9 year old Hannie who was left in charge of 5 year old Josie while her parents went on a trip out of the country. Jana is 25. Think of that - 25. On what planet is a 25 year old not capable of managing a household and children?

Whether it should be her on-going responsibility is beside the point. If they were a different family, and her parents were completely hands on, doting and involved. And Jana had a full-time career and lived in her own apartment -- it would still be completely normal for the parents to take a vacation and ask their adult child to come take care of the kids.

Not in any completely normal family that I know. NO, it's not normal or routine for parents to impose on their grown, independently thriving 25 yo working offspring (YOUR scenario) to care for young children as they galavant around the globe. People want to dump young children, they can pay for someone to care for them.

LOL at what some would claim a completely normal behavior or request.

[Mama Mia]

Not in any completely normal family that I know. NO, it's not normal or routine for parents to impose on their grown, independently thriving 25 yo working offspring (YOUR scenario) to care for young children as they galavant around the globe. People want to dump young children, they can pay for someone to care for them.

LOL at what some would claim a completely normal behavior or request.

That is really, really sad. I can't even conceive of having the kind of family that buys strangers time for things like a vacation, if there are family members available. I can't imagine any of my children -- all thriving, independent adults - many with their own families -- not actually volunteering to help out in that situation.

Of course, obviously, that could be abused if the parents were vacationing all the time. Or if the parents were asking their grown kids to help out and were resentful if they couldn't. I would never expect any of them to drop everything in their own lives to help out. But, yeah, if it was a " vacation" like most people think of a vacation -- a week or two for something really special - a big anniversary, or milestone birthday or someplace you've wanted to visit forever and finally get the opportunity. Or an occassional weekend. Absolutely the parents should ask - not expect. And plan around the adult child's schedule. And, of course, most 25 year olds will have less flexibility at their job than their 45 year old parent - so it might not be a possibility.

But we are talking about " normal " here. And good Lord, I would certainly hope that if my 25 year old was available, and it wasn't something I asked of them all the time, that they would help out! Just like I would readily take my grandchildren. The worst part, for me, of my disability, is that I can't watch my grand kids so their parents can get a weekend away. Or I help them with an unexpected bill. Or the whole family pitches in to care for a dying relative. Families help each other out.

How sad to leave your child with strangers because your own family is too detached to be involved.

[LittleOleMe]

That is really, really sad. I can't even conceive of having the kind of family that buys strangers time for things like a vacation, if there are family members available. I can't imagine any of my children -- all thriving, independent adults - many with their own families -- not actually volunteering to help out in that situation.

Of course, obviously, that could be abused if the parents were vacationing all the time. Or if the parents were asking their grown kids to help out and were resentful if they couldn't. I would never expect any of them to drop everything in their own lives to help out. But, yeah, if it was a " vacation" like most people think of a vacation -- a week or two for something really special - a big anniversary, or milestone birthday or someplace you've wanted to visit forever and finally get the opportunity. Or an occassional weekend. Absolutely the parents should ask - not expect. And plan around the adult child's schedule. And, of course, most 25 year olds will have less flexibility at their job than their 45 year old parent - so it might not be a possibility.

But we are talking about " normal " here. And good Lord, I would certainly hope that if my 25 year old was available, and it wasn't something I asked of them all the time, that they would help out! Just like I would readily take my grandchildren. The worst part, for me, of my disability, is that I can't watch my grand kids so their parents can get a weekend away. Or I help them with an unexpected bill. Or the whole family pitches in to care for a dying relative. Families help each other out.

How sad to leave your child with strangers because your own family is too detached to be involved.

I'm willing to bet you didn't place most to all of the responsibility of raising your children on your eldest daughter starting from the time she was around seven or eight. That's the issue people are having. Jana isn't volunteering being she has time on her hands for whatever reason. She's basically been forced to stay home for the sole purpose of parenting her siblings bc her parents cannot be bothered to do it themselves. If this wasn't something that happened each and every day, it wouldn't be an issue. Like when J'chelle was in the hospital right before Josie was born, and Josh and Anna came over with Mac to help hold down the fort and take care of the kids. That's perfectly fine and normal. That's what I would expect from a normal family. But that isn't what happens at TTH. JB and J'chelle leave whenever they want bc there's someone else around to care for the children. They act like medieval royalty who have paid servant raising their children, except the servants are actually their eldest children who aren't paid and are basically slaves, hence the reason everyone refers to the oldest girls are J'slaves.

[LittleOleMe]

I'm wondering how he accomplished this when (to my knowledge)it's illegal for non-LEO's to possess a squad car with police department markings. Most local police departments strip off the lettering/signage for surplus cars that are sold to the public.

I don't know about the markings and I haven't seen this picture, but I do that around here, the police cars still have all the lights on them. It's up to the buyer to take them off. Also, again at least around here, the police cars have certain paint jobs that make it obvious they are police cars, even without the lettering and markings and stuff.

Of course, since they do have friends in the police department, it wouldn't surprise me if they have some deal with the local PD that they could keep everything on the car that they bought under the condition that it was never driven. It probably ends up saving the county or township or however that's done down there a lot of money. They don't have to patrol down there as much or deal with some hotshot private security firm. Just the presence of the car is a huge deterrent.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Oh my god people. we know NOTHING about where the parents were or what actually happened. This is all SPECULATION. Stop acting like you know the whole truth. Hold your judgments until the show actually airs.

For all we know, Michelle and/or JB were actually there, but TLC only included Jana's interview(s) in the VERY short clip.

Even if they weren't, leaving a 25 year old and probably her grandmother in charge of her siblings isn't really that shocking. Plus, if you're going to get upset about that, why aren't you even more upset about the fact that JILL was the one who rushed her to the hospital during her first seizure 4-ish years ago, while her parents were in El Salvador?

[SassyPants]

If the parents were present, yet not photographed or interviewed, it only makes their behaviors more irresponsible.

Josie is no more, 75 yo GM Mary's responsibility than she is 25 yo Jana's.

[MatthewDuggar]

...why aren't you even more upset about the fact that JILL was the one who rushed her to the hospital during her first seizure 4-ish years ago, while her parents were in El Salvador?....

:clap:

[Mama Mia]

I absolutely agree that the Duggar's expect far too much from their older children. Particularly when they were children themselves. There is no argument there. None. They wore those older daughters out caring for their siblings. And even worse than the physical work was the extreme emotional attachment the sister-moms have with their young siblings.

Horrible for everyone involved. The adult siblings who will feel like they are losing a child when they move away. The small children who must feel lost when their primary nurturer picks a man over them. And even the Jim Bob and Michelle , who are missing out on that deep bonding that comes from all the small everyday care taking activities -- it's when you're helping a child get dressed, or putting them to bed, or walking through the grocery store with them that they share their feelings and thoughts and all the things that make them unique - even the obnoxious parts - not during set quality time in scheduled increments.

But some people here are projecting their feelings about the Duggar's overuse of the older children throughout their lives to project it onto this one instance, that could happen to anyone. Why else would anyone be "OMG!!! Where were her parents!! Eleventy!!!" ? They either are over dramatizing the situation because it's The Duggar's, or they truly think a 25 year old adult sibling shouldn't provide care for a 5 year old. Whether for an hour - because hey, the parents shouldn't go shopping :roll: or while they go on vacation, because it's more " normal" to hire a stranger.

If Josie were at kindergarten when this occurred would people be freaking out? How about if they were your average 2 parent 2 child working family and the 25 year old was the nanny who was staying with the kids while the parents went on a business trip? Would anyone be clucking about " where were the parents?!? " No. Of course not.