Bringing Up Bates

[hollywood]

What I like is that they actually have something to say about each other. Like the video of Erin and Chad... if the Duggars did a video like that, which they have... it consists of "well I first noticed his wonderful soul, his love for God is what drew me to him.."

[StellaMarie]

Did others notice that Alyssa's hypothetical "smaller" family is up to like 10? So, yeah, I don't think she's going fundie lite any time soon.

I agree with a prior poster that Gil came across as douchey. The others seemed more natural to me -- though Tori and/or Carlin were a little too "on" for me (and I admit I'm a snarky you-know-what).

I did think Erin and Chad were genuine and really sweet, and I'm sorry for them that they've suffered miscarriages.

[Dandruff]

And that's saying a lot, considering they all seem to start their sentences with, "Me and ______ did _______."

Me and Zach, Me and Trace, Me and Chad, Me and Alyssa, etc.

What is Zach's job again? He seemed to be in full cop gear.

I find their grammar appalling (I think Gil said "ain't" within two minutes of the start of the show), especially since both parents are college-educated and they're homeschooling their kids. It strikes me as almost passive-aggressive; as though they're trying to show us by example what they think of "book-smarts". English must be part of their homeschool curriculum. Who helps the children and corrects their work?

Gil and Kelly claimed that they decided to not limit the size of their family when they got married. On one of the early Duggar shows, when the Bateses were visiting, I'm almost positive that Gil said he initially didn't want a large family and Kelly had to talk him into it. Which was it?

Did Trace really get into a wreck at the same time Kelly was preparing for the shower? I was impressed by what appeared to be genuine maternal concern, but it seemed like a rather large coincidence. Did Trace really walk away without a scratch after the car flipped? With all of Gil's worrying about money, how will the car be repaired or replaced? I'm glad Trace was fine (at least he appeared to be) - I'm just wondering what was choreographed and what wasn't.

I hope that Erin and Chad find out that the fertility problem is treatable. For all we know, she could be pregnant now.

Alyssa was absolutely charming. What poise and maturity.

Anyway...I enjoyed the show, though I agree with everyone who believes that, generally speaking, they're as "bad" as the Duggars. It'll be interesting to see how long it lasts.

[moreorlessnu]

It's interesting how the Bates daughters become progressively more outgoing/outspoken as they go down the line. Michaela is very quiet, Erin is quiet but a little more outgoing, Alissa classy, but speaks her mind, Tori holds nothing back, etc.

The Duggar girls also become more outgoing, to a point, as they go down the line. I think Jessa is more outspoken than Jinger, but I'm not sure if Jessa is more outgoing than Jinger. During Jessa's engagement episode, when she had to collect the roses, she made some comment about how it was uncomfortable for her to have to approach people (or something like that).

[Jana814]

It's interesting how the Bates daughters become progressively more outgoing/outspoken as they go down the line. Michaela is very quiet, Erin is quiet but a little more outgoing, Alissa classy, but speaks her mind, Tori holds nothing back, etc.

I noticed that about the Bates girls since the 1st time they were on the Duggar show. Good for them.

[nelliebelle1197]

I think my idea is that they genuinely seem to desire children. You can see it especially when Erin references her miscarriages. Do i believe they would be good parents because of that desire and obvious love for one another? Yes I do. Everyone has different beliefs on whether fundies should adopt. Is is better for a child to grow up unloved and malnourished in the extreme poverty of a third world orphanage or to be adopted and raised by a fundamentalist white christian couple in America who will raise them according to beliefs that many would consider emotionally destructive? Some would say yes to either side. In my personal opinion I believe it is better for them to adopt and offer a home to a child who would otherwise sleep on a dirt floor and maybe eat one meal a day. Not all would agree but that is my feeling on it.

So they are amazing parent material because being with them is better than sleeping in the dirt and going without food? Cause that is what you just said and I am not exactly sure that is a compliment.

[nokidsmom]

At the baby shower there were PURCHASED sandwiches in a box on the table. The Duggars would die before they served their guests 1) an actual complete meal and 2) something from a store.

I agree the Bateses are just as, if not more, dangerous as the Duggars. They make their way of life look happy, plausible, and successful. The kids dont come off as smug assholes (josh/anna), kool aid drinkers (Jill), or sex crazed (Jessa). Unlike the Duggar kids, who seem to feel that they are better than others because they are blessed to be a Duggar, the Bates kids seem "normal." I'd also bet that Kelly answers mail sent to her by fans, unlike the Duggars who sometimes send a pre printed card and often dont reply at all.

Behind it all I'm sure they are just as education deficient as the Duggarlings. We know they've had financial issues, but thats not something that is likely to come up on the show. WE also know that they arent just harmless christians, but they'll portray themselves as some form of mainstream Christianity that doesnt preach mysogeny.

I've always found it interesting that these people think they are SO RIGHT in their beliefs but they will go to such lengths to hide it from the public. If your way is the right way, why not be proud? Have Kelly sit in front of a camera and talk about submission and near sexual slavery. Have the kids talk about blanket training and having their "will broken." Talk about how awesome Michael and Debbie Pearl are and how to beat your child without leaving a mark the authorities will care about...

Agree that the Bates family comes off as more personable and normal compared to the Duggars. It's good that the kids seem to be allowed more freedom and they are allowed to pursue interests, however bear in mind, it's still in the constraints of their lifestyle. Ditto for education.

I still think they are just as dangerous as the Duggars. They espouse the same toxic beliefs and they still have limited their children's lives and futures, even if it's still giving the kids more leeway compared to the Duggars, it's still limiting nonetheless. Remember Erin had a shot at a real university. I am not convinced that her so-called "decision" was truly her own. They have given their adult children more leeway in courting, but it was only after a courtship disaster that they switched from courtship to that so-called "dating with a purpose" (still courtship IMHO, just a different name on it).

They have only found a more pleasant, more palatable way to put a face on their beliefs and I don't believe for second that Gil and Kelly don't have some awareness of how their beliefs are perceived by others. I have said this before, Kelly seems much more savvy in portraying her family as more normal via her blog. And it's interesting to see how she hides it or finds ways to backpedal; she knows what she's doing.

Above all, Gil is on the ATI Board and that in itself should show where they really stand. He wouldn't be anywhere near that position if he and his family were not considered amongst the top true believers.

[DaffyDill]

Just a couple of questions...

As I am not a Bates expert, can anyone tell me whether they espoused the Michael Pearl School of Gentle Parenting? Because I can't quite imagine Kelly being OK with that, although I'm happy to be corrected.

Also, far as their Dating-With-a-Purpose/courtship thing, didn't Kelly say that she and Gil allowed the older kids to make their own decisions on how much physical touching was acceptable in their relationships? They just don't seem as stilted as the Duggar kids...

[DCM]

So they are amazing parent material because being with them is better than sleeping in the dirt and going without food? Cause that is what you just said and I am not exactly sure that is a compliment.

Not what I meant by that comparison. I don't know them personally but they seem like they would be great parents for a number of reasons, including their obvious desire and love of children, love for one another, etc. I was comparing the extreme where some people feel like fundies should not be allowed to adopt no matter what because they view their lifestyle as abusive, cult-like and constricting. That was the extreme that I feel like anyone could agree it would be better for a child to be adopted by them then left where they are.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Just a couple of questions...

As I am not a Bates expert, can anyone tell me whether they espoused the Michael Pearl School of Gentle Parenting? Because I can't quite imagine Kelly being OK with that, although I'm happy to be corrected.

Also, far as their Dating-With-a-Purpose/courtship thing, didn't Kelly say that she and Gil allowed the older kids to make their own decisions on how much physical touching was acceptable in their relationships? They just don't seem as stilted as the Duggar kids...

Google brought me to free jinger lol. And a thread about the bates and Kelly's recommendation of Ezzo's books and he's big into child scheduling, starvation and beating.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Not sure if link was posted yet

http://youtu.be/ETS8GalLkns

First episode of bringing up bates.

[Ursula]

Thanks for that link!

[Toothfairy]

No Erin and Chad should never adopt as long as they are involved in gothard. That includes her parents. The Bates might be better than the Duggars but they're still a cult. An adopted child even ones who are babies have various issues that need to be dealt with. It's bad enough Erin was raised in a cult to bring an innocent adopted child who needs love support and understanding is cruel

[RosyDaisy]

Just got around to watching. My thoughts:

* Gil just STFU. You are a smug asshole.

* I detected a little tension between Whitney and the Bates ladies. It's clear she is working to get their full acceptance. She also shouldn't be helping in the baby shower planning and prep. Where I come from that is considered rude.

* Way to go Tori! If they don't like what you're cooking, they can fix their own damn supper.

* Trace's wreck: Kelly, WTH didn't you go check on your son? I know he wasn't hurt, but I don't know of any mother who wouldn't go check. There were plenty of people who could have finished the work. Also, I detected more than just shock from Trace. I saw fear (as in shades of Josiah Duggar).

* Poor Erin. I feel bad for her. At least she has a husband who loves and cares about her.

* Kelly is a controlling bitch. It's very clear that She's the one who rule the roost in that house.

* Alyssa: How dare you you pull that kind of pregnancy announcement! "Bun I the Oven" t-shirt? Did you forget that your sister has suffered 3 miscarriages? You are one smug little bitch. Keep your ass in Florida.

* Nice try with the FU internets moments.

[RosyDaisy]

Going to be honest here, but I find it a bit perplexing that so many seem to be giving Gil and Kelly a pass just because they seem so personable and down home.

They hold very destructive, harmful views and beliefs, they are part of the Gothard Fan Club, and they are very much on the same bandwagon trying to diminish the rights of others. Personally, I do not find those actions appealing no matter how much smiling they do for the camera. All that glitters is not gold, and we need to remember that.

This! QFT! Folks don't let the smiles and sweet southern accents fool you. Behind all of that lies hate and contempt. Parents who send their daughters to one of Gothard's camps and sit on the BoD, knowing there are allegations of sexual abuse and harassment, are heinous.

[Pretzel]

Yeah, Gil Bates is coming across a bit douchey and smarmy at times but he doesn't do stupid pranks like stealing another family's kids and scaring a mom almost to death, so I'll cut him some slack. The Bates parents seem to genuinely want to be with each other unike JB&M who always appear to be the fawning noob and the pretty cheerleader(who secretly wishes she had a different life).

I still think the parental relationship set the tone of the entire family dynamics with each family. The Duggars are emotionally stunted and repressed. The Bateses seem much more hands-on and respecting, appreciating each family member's individual personality. They don't pretend to have an answer to everything and are not ashamed to admit when they have learned from past mistakes.

With the Duggars, they put their ideologies and twisted believes in our faces but just cannot admit a few years later that they didn't work out as well as expected. No, the viewership is gradually and very carefully served some major changes and is supposed to overlook the hipocrisy, which is why the Duggars bug me and the Bateses don't. That and yeah, Kelly caring about her children and Michelle not.

[Paperplate]

Thanks for posting the Youtube link, Milly-Molly-Mandy.

My thoughts:

• The Bates are WAY more fun to watch than the Duggars! They show some actual emotions.
  
• If I didn’t know about their believes (and actions!) from other sources I’d watch this show and just think that they are a really big happy baby-loving family. I’m curious to see if they’ll discuss more of their believes in later episodes.
  
• Why don’t they have the kids in (reversed) birth order in the intro? Why did they mix up some of the older half of the kids?
  
• Erin seems super sweet. When the Bates were on 19 kids Erin just came off as kinda annoying, but on Chad’s blog and on this show she’s so sweet.
  I feel very sorry about her miscarriage(s?), and I hope she’ll be able to have babies soon. On the show they made it into a real tearjerker though.
  
• I liked that Alyssa was realistic about the number of children she could handle. She didn’t spout that "God doesn’t give us more than we can handle“. Let’s see if that lasts. What is she going to do if she’s still fertile after having 8 or 10 kids?
  
• Alyssa looks a lot older than 19 (It’s the eyebrows and the fact that she mostly dresses like a 40 year old office worker, I think), but John looks about 17 and definitely NOT old enough to have a baby. I just hope he’s mature enough. It was funny what Zach said about Alyssa never being a big kid to him.
  
• I kinda expect people who don’t know the Bates and watch the show to be a bit confused about the whole Michael/Michaella* thing. She’s introduced as Michaella, but they call her Michael.
  
• I think they accidentally mixed up Carlin and Tori at some point in their lives (with that many kids they probably get confused about who’s who…). :D :D That’s my only explanation for the fact that Tori looks a lot younger than Carlin even though she’s over two years older. :D :D

The Bates apparently love their paper plates too. I got two new paper plate avatars out of that one episode. That's a huge stack right there:

*Zach spells it as Micheala on his blog. Crazy.

[Paperplate]

* Alyssa: How dare you you pull that kind of pregnancy announcement! "Bun I the Oven" t-shirt? Did you forget that your sister has suffered 3 miscarriages? You are one smug little bitch. Keep your ass in Florida.

What? :pink-shock: I mean, I don't like Alyssa for some reason and agree that she comes off as smug sometimes, but why isn't she allowed to announce her pregnancy just because her sister has had miscarriages? Why is she a bitch because she's pregnant and wore a t-shirt to announce it? It's not like she's responsible for Erin's reproductive troubles or rubbing her pregnancy in Erin's face. (At least that we know of.)

I mean, what was she supposed to do? Apologise to Erin for being pregnant?

Is Whitney a bitch too because she had a baby so close to Erin's due date? Are all the people who threw Whitney a baby shower bitches because Erin didn't get a shower?

[formergothardite]

Just a couple of questions...

As I am not a Bates expert, can anyone tell me whether they espoused the Michael Pearl School of Gentle Parenting? Because I can't quite imagine Kelly being OK with that, although I'm happy to be corrected.

Also, far as their Dating-With-a-Purpose/courtship thing, didn't Kelly say that she and Gil allowed the older kids to make their own decisions on how much physical touching was acceptable in their relationships? They just don't seem as stilted as the Duggar kids...

Oh I can. I don't believe for a second that they disciplined their children any differently than the Duggars. They came into the spotlight after the Duggars and learned from them, so they know to keep their associations with people like the Pearls quiet. Rather like they try and hide their association with Bill Gothard and ATI.

Of course they say that the older kids get to make their own decision, just like the Duggars say. And I'm sure that they do, with in the very limited guidelines that Gil and Kelly provide. It is like when my daughter was little and I would set out three outfits for her to choose from. It made her feel like she was grown up and picking out her own outfits, and she was to an extent, but only within the very small bounds that I had set. You really think Gil and Kelly would not try and shame and guilt an adult child who decided to not do the "dating with a purpose" and just date? Or if they decided to go off alone with the person they were dating to kiss and make out? Or if the daughters decided to date someone that was totally not approved by Gil? It was one thing letting Zach do that, because he was a guy and could bring his wife into the fold, but letting a daughter would be a whole other story.

[formergothardite]

":2ca90aac]Yeah, Gil Bates is coming across a bit douchey and smarmy at times but he doesn't do stupid pranks like stealing another family's kids and scaring a mom almost to death, so I'll cut him some slack. The Bates parents seem to genuinely want to be with each other unike JB&M who always appear to be the fawning noob and the pretty cheerleader(who secretly wishes she had a different life).

I still think the parental relationship set the tone of the entire family dynamics with each family. The Duggars are emotionally stunted and repressed. The Bateses seem much more hands-on and respecting, appreciating each family member's individual personality. They don't pretend to have an answer to everything and are not ashamed to admit when they have learned from past mistakes.

With the Duggars, they put their ideologies and twisted believes in our faces but just cannot admit a few years later that they didn't work out as well as expected. No, the viewership is gradually and very carefully served some major changes and is supposed to overlook the hipocrisy, which is why the Duggars bug me and the Bateses don't. That and yeah, Kelly caring about her children and Michelle not.

Gil does stupid stuff like being on a BoD that helps cover up sheltered teen girls being groomed and sexually harassed by an old man. He should get no slack.

[Bubblewand]

I watched the episode last night. While I feel for Erin's pain in the way that I'd feel for any women who suffered loss and is struggling with infertility, I have the (potentially unpopular) opinion that they should not in fact pursue adoption. Aside from not wanting them to breed another generation of Gothardites, If they subscribe to the notion that God should control the size of their family, then pursuing adoption is them conciously saying that they don't trust God that they aren't meant to be parents, and therefore would be gigantic hypocrites.

(To clarify, I don't believe they should or shouldn't be parents or that they are "punished" with IF any more than the Bates themselves were "blessed" with children. IF is the bad luck of the draw. Just saying that adoption would be another example of how they pick and choose which parts of their own faith they live by, just like most people)

I have to admit that I found myself sucked in by their backwoods charm a few times, having to remind myself that they are just as indoctrinated as the Duggars. I don't know if they are more likeable or that I haven't seen them as much as the Duggars, so they annoy me less....for now.

[FreeHannie!]

* Trace's wreck: Kelly, WTH didn't you go check on your son? I know he wasn't hurt, but I don't know of any mother who wouldn't go check. There were plenty of people who could have finished the work. Also, I detected more than just shock from Trace. I saw fear (as in shades of Josiah Duggar).]

I'm 25 and had a car accident last year with my sister last winter and neither of us had a scratch on it and our mother still raced from work immediately when she found out and drove for 40 minutes from the city out to the West Island in heavy snow to check on/be with us even though we are a pair of adult women, because that is what mothers do. We're still her babies lol. It was a good thing she did because my sister went into delayed shock an hour later and mom was a huge comfort to her.

[RosyDaisy]

What? [emoji14]ink-shock: I mean, I don't like Alyssa for some reason and agree that she comes off as smug sometimes, but why isn't she allowed to announce her pregnancy just because her sister has had miscarriages? Why is she a bitch because she's pregnant and wore a t-shirt to announce it? It's not like she's responsible for Erin's reproductive troubles or rubbing her pregnancy in Erin's face. (At least that we know of.)

I mean, what was she supposed to do? Apologise to Erin for being pregnant?

Is Whitney a bitch too because she had a baby so close to Erin's due date? Are all the people who threw Whitney a baby shower bitches because Erin didn't get a shower?

Erin had 3 miscarriages, and it's beyond insensitive to pull a stunt like that. A simple I'm pregnant would do. As for Whitney, she and Erin were pregnant at the same time, and it makes sense that there would be a baby shower. As for the baby shower, let's be honest. It was just a gift grabbing opportunity. These people have no shame.

[HereticHick]

I'm perplexed. So Alyssa is a bitch because she's happy to be pregnant? And Whitney is "shameless" because she had a baby shower for her first child? But in the previous sentence, you say that it makes sense to a have a shower.

Is anyone who has a large baby shower "shameless"? If your friends or family or coworkers have a shower, do you decide that they are shameless if they receive more than X number of gifts?

[Pretzel]

I'm perplexed. So Alyssa is a bitch because she's happy to be pregnant? And Whitney is "shameless" because she had a baby shower for her first child? But in the previous sentence, you say that it makes sense to a have a shower.

Is anyone who has a large baby shower "shameless"? If your friends or family or coworkers have a shower, do you decide that they are shameless if they receive more than X number of gifts?

I don't get it either. As far as I could see, Erin and Chad weren't even there when Alyssa wore that shirt. We don't know if she told Erin prior to telling her family, or whether she waited until she could talk it through with her mother how to tell Erin or whatever.

I dislike the Bateses for being fundamentalist ATI-cult-members and for sporting misogynist views. I don't dislike them for enjoying a natural part of life to the fullest, which is imho a very much wanted pregnancy of a beloved family member or the opportunity to throw a big shower for a family member who's having a baby. As far as I know, nobody is ever forced to bring a gift. Buy a bag of diapers and bring that, or create a gift certificate of something that can't be bought with money like babysitting for a day or something. Nobody is ever forced to bring a gift to a shower and if so, just don't go. I don't know where the big deal is.