Bringing Up Bates

[nelliebelle1197]

I've always liked the Bates Family. I don't agree with their religious beliefs or a lot of their choices, but at the end of the day thgey've always struck me as decent people who love their kids. And the contrast between the Bates and the Duggars (for me) is now more apparent than ever. The Bates kids seems to have personalitites and they genuinely like one another. The scene with Erin and Carlin (?) at the grocery store was sweet, and it dawned on me that I've never seen an authentic moment like that between ANY of the Duggars. Ever. Alyssa announcing her pregnancy was cute, and all I could think was that Jim Bob's head would EXPLODE if any of his kids wore a shirt like that because it's inconsistent with their pure, perfect, brand.

The Bates aren't perfect. But at the very least their kids have identities and personalities and parents who have made an effort to get to know them as adults. And Kelly and Gil also seem to trust their kids in a way that the Duggars don't. Watching them was refreshing after 10 years of Duggar.

They may be more likable than the Duggars (who isn't?) but they are NOT decent people. They super right wing religious nut jobs who follow a cult leader and barely educated their children. And there is nothing decent about the theocracy these people would love to impose upon us all.

[Idolatry]

How did I miss this???? Well it reruns soon. See you soon!

[formergothardite]

We need to have Bates disclaimer on the bottom of every thread. I couldn't agree more with FG and I'm sure it gets old for her to have to constantly remind folks that the Bates have a shiny happy film over patriarchal bullshit.

I feel like I'm a bit of a Debby Downer on this thread but I am really surprised how many people seem to think that Gil and Kelly are somehow good, decent parents who are better than the Duggars. No, they are just like the Duggars and perhaps worse because they know how to hide the dark side of them better.

[moreorlessnu]

I'm watching this show and as an introvert, I'm just CRINGING at the amount of people around. Endless noise and crowds and stuff going on. I get that some people like that but I just could not deal. My entire extended family is like 10 living people and they have twice that living in one house. It must be a huge shock going from that to just you and your husband/wife.

I get the feeling that Alyssa isn't wild about having many people around. When she lived at home, wasn't she sharing a bedroom with only 1 (little) girl?

[calimojo]

I am not sure why people thought Gil came off as smug. He came off fine, IMO.

But as many have said, the bigger issue really is how can he and Kelly be so tightly involved with Gothard at this point? I could possibly even over look it if they continued to follow some of the beliefs taught by Gothard, but to be serving on the board and if IIRC, have him at their daughter's wedding is so wrong.

As much as I prefer to watch the Bates and find them more entertaining and less "Stiff", I agree with a much earlier poster who said in some ways this makes them more dangerous than the Duggars. They seem too "Normal" and it may sadly convince people that the lifestyle is normal.

[mastercleaner]

Not only did Gothard attened Chad and Erin's wedding.. It was his birthday and he was presented with a cake... That was captioned on the bates blog as being the "groom cake"

Now that's weird... Just call it a birthday cake? If it's not made for Chad, then it isn't a "groom cake". That's just gross... :ew:

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

How did I miss this???? Well it reruns soon. See you soon!

They are showing reruns everyday and someone posted a YouTube link earlier

[Gingi1976]

They may be more likable than the Duggars (who isn't?) but they are NOT decent people. They super right wing religious nut jobs who follow a cult leader and barely educated their children. And there is nothing decent about the theocracy these people would love to impose upon us all.

Maybe you're right. But by the same token Kelly Jo isn't robo-calling people and filling their heads with lies while preaching hate. And the kids seem to be making their way in world by doing things that interest them, as opposed to what daddy gives them (car dealership) or tells them to do. Say what you will about Erin and college, but the fact remains that she went and she graduated, which is a hell of a lot more than what any of the Duggars have done (extra points for not forcing one of their other daughters to also get a degree from the same school because Erin needed a chaperona a la Jana and her "doula" career). Unlike the Duggars, we've never seen Kelly really teach her kids, but the fact that the older ones are doing SOMETHING leads me to believe that they may not be as uneducated as the Duggars.

As for Gil and Gothard. That does bother me. But I've spent my entire career working with non-profit boards as a staff member and as a volunteer. You have NO idea what information he's being presented with, how decisions are being made and how he's voting. I am not absolving Gil of responsibility, but I am not willing to condemn the ENTIRE Bates family either.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Maybe you're right. But by the same token Kelly Jo isn't robo-calling people and filling their heads with lies while preaching hate. And the kids seem to be making their way in world by doing things that interest them, as opposed to what daddy gives them (car dealership) or tells them to do. Say what you will about Erin and college, but the fact remains that she went and she graduated, which is a hell of a lot more than what any of the Duggars have done (extra points for not forcing one of their other daughters to also get a degree from the same school because Erin needed a chaperona a la Jana and her "doula" career). Unlike the Duggars, we've never seen Kelly really teach her kids, but the fact that the older ones are doing SOMETHING leads me to believe that they may not be as uneducated as the Duggars.

As for Gil and Gothard. That does bother me. But I've spent my entire career working with non-profit boards as a staff member and as a volunteer. You have NO idea what information he's being presented with, how decisions are being made and how he's voting. I am not absolving Gil of responsibility, but I am not willing to condemn the ENTIRE Bates family either.

In United Bates of America (that's the name right?) there was a part where Kelly was working on school with the kids and talked about their organizational system (how they have buckets with all the school supplies).

[PeanutButterCookie]

Thanks for posting the Youtube link, Milly-Molly-Mandy.

My thoughts:

• The Bates are WAY more fun to watch than the Duggars! They show some actual emotions.
  
• If I didn’t know about their believes (and actions!) from other sources I’d watch this show and just think that they are a really big happy baby-loving family. I’m curious to see if they’ll discuss more of their believes in later episodes.
  
• Why don’t they have the kids in (reversed) birth order in the intro? Why did they mix up some of the older half of the kids?
  
• Erin seems super sweet. When the Bates were on 19 kids Erin just came off as kinda annoying, but on Chad’s blog and on this show she’s so sweet.
  I feel very sorry about her miscarriage(s?), and I hope she’ll be able to have babies soon. On the show they made it into a real tearjerker though.
  
• I liked that Alyssa was realistic about the number of children she could handle. She didn’t spout that "God doesn’t give us more than we can handle“. Let’s see if that lasts. What is she going to do if she’s still fertile after having 8 or 10 kids?
  
• Alyssa looks a lot older than 19 (It’s the eyebrows and the fact that she mostly dresses like a 40 year old office worker, I think), but John looks about 17 and definitely NOT old enough to have a baby. I just hope he’s mature enough. It was funny what Zach said about Alyssa never being a big kid to him.
  
• I kinda expect people who don’t know the Bates and watch the show to be a bit confused about the whole Michael/Michaella* thing. She’s introduced as Michaella, but they call her Michael.
  
• I think they accidentally mixed up Carlin and Tori at some point in their lives (with that many kids they probably get confused about who’s who…). :D :D That’s my only explanation for the fact that Tori looks a lot younger than Carlin even though she’s over two years older. :D :D

The Bates apparently love their paper plates too. I got two new paper plate avatars out of that one episode. That's a huge stack right there:

[attachment=0]Paper plates.png[/attachment]

*Zach spells it as Micheala on his blog. Crazy.

To the bolded,I agree. I also thought Erin would be annoying too. She annoyed me a little when they showed her at her wedding and showing that pink room, I thought she would act like some little girl and her voice irked me a little, I guess it was just the excitement of everything though. She was actually really pleasant and mature on the show.

Alyssa did look a lot older to me, they did say she had been sick so maybe it's that and stress.

[Kira]

Maybe you're right. But by the same token Kelly Jo isn't robo-calling people and filling their heads with lies while preaching hate. And the kids seem to be making their way in world by doing things that interest them, as opposed to what daddy gives them (car dealership) or tells them to do. Say what you will about Erin and college, but the fact remains that she went and she graduated, which is a hell of a lot more than what any of the Duggars have done (extra points for not forcing one of their other daughters to also get a degree from the same school because Erin needed a chaperona a la Jana and her "doula" career). Unlike the Duggars, we've never seen Kelly really teach her kids, but the fact that the older ones are doing SOMETHING leads me to believe that they may not be as uneducated as the Duggars.

As for Gil and Gothard. That does bother me. But I've spent my entire career working with non-profit boards as a staff member and as a volunteer. You have NO idea what information he's being presented with, how decisions are being made and how he's voting. I am not absolving Gil of responsibility, but I am not willing to condemn the ENTIRE Bates family either.

I could be wrong, but Erin did have a chaperone while attending college.

[Mecca]

To address a comment above -- Kelly may not have robocalled, but I have seen first hand the family, including Kelly, actively campaigning against the rights of others. The family is very much involved in politics, not only in TN, but elsewhere.

A few years back they were actively campaigning for the Tennessee Marriage Protection Amendment, an amendment that discriminated against gay couples. They have actively campaigned for FRC, and Kelly recently was spreading lies publicly about the recent Amendment 1 abortion measure in TN. So yeah, their ideologies are on par with the Duggars, but because they are not as well known as the Duggars, their bullshit slips under the radar.

This is what I find so frustrating about all this. The wizard behind the curtain is not as it appears on screen. They landed on a channel that is highlighting all the wholesome nonsense, but how they strut around town is something much different. Too bad they did not land on the Oxygen channel. Their show could have been called "The Bad Bates Club" because that would be more accurate. This is just another opportunity for Gil and Kelly to make money all the while fooling the general public on who they really are and what they really believe.

[FreeHannie!]

I wholeheartedly agree here. I am fully aware of all the crap that these families promote and do, but that doesn't mean that everything they do is evil. Especially when it's the same thing other people would do. Plus, these kids, who really had no choice in how they were raised, are being attacked for even the smallest actions or decisions.

I understand this is a snarking website, but there's a point at which snarking ends and I've seen a lot of people cross that line.

I have to agree with this. Yes, these people have toxic beliefs, but it feels wrong to snark on things like Carlin and Erin's supermarket moment when I'd have found it a sweet, sisterly moment if it was on Keeping up with the Kardashians.

People aren't totally black and white. Just because I don't like what these people stand for doesn't mean they can't ever have a likeable moment or be endearing sometimes.

Like, I dislike Stephen Harper for many many reasons, but I thought he did a great job sensitively handling the Parliament Hill shootings last October.

It's possible to be like 'I don't agree with this person or like what they stand for, but I think they were nice/sweet/came across well when they did this/said this' etc.

[FreeHannie!]

To the bolded,I agree. I also thought Erin would be annoying too. She annoyed me a little when they showed her at her wedding and showing that pink room, I thought she would act like some little girl and her voice irked me a little, I guess it was just the excitement of everything though. She was actually really pleasant and mature on the show.

Yeah. I remember thinking the pink room was stupid the first time I saw it, but then I remembered that unlike me, she's probably never been able to decorate a room how she wanted to, and in many ways, she is still a little girl. She was raised in a culture where you sort of hit 16 and remain there maturity wise until you get married.

[RosyDaisy]

Not only did Gothard attened Chad and Erin's wedding.. It was his birthday and he was presented with a cake... That was captioned on the bates blog as being the "groom cake"

Now that's weird... Just call it a birthday cake? If it's not made for Chad, then it isn't a "groom cake". That's just gross... :ew:

It's an outright lie to call a groom's cake a birthday cake for Gothard.

[Becket70]

Do we know why the Bates' show is not being shown on TLC? Seems like a natural for this network. Could it be that the Duggars did not want it on TLC and their request was honored by the network?

[nelliebelle1197]

Maybe you're right. But by the same token Kelly Jo isn't robo-calling people and filling their heads with lies while preaching hate. And the kids seem to be making their way in world by doing things that interest them, as opposed to what daddy gives them (car dealership) or tells them to do. Say what you will about Erin and college, but the fact remains that she went and she graduated, which is a hell of a lot more than what any of the Duggars have done (extra points for not forcing one of their other daughters to also get a degree from the same school because Erin needed a chaperona a la Jana and her "doula" career). Unlike the Duggars, we've never seen Kelly really teach her kids, but the fact that the older ones are doing SOMETHING leads me to believe that they may not be as uneducated as the Duggars.

As for Gil and Gothard. That does bother me. But I've spent my entire career working with non-profit boards as a staff member and as a volunteer. You have NO idea what information he's being presented with, how decisions are being made and how he's voting. I am not absolving Gil of responsibility, but I am not willing to condemn the ENTIRE Bates family either.

You need to do a little more research on the IBLP board and the Gothard scandal. The board basically absolved Gothard in a letter last winter. Erin did have a chaperone; she also had the chance to go to a real, accredited college, not Clown College, but she did not. The Bates have also been politically active in Tennesee on a number of issues; you don't think Zach's political "career" has a Gil and Kelly approved agenda? It started under their roof.

Also, I don't know what kind of nonprofit boards you have been on or worked with, but my entire career has been in nonprofits and I even have an MPA in nonprofit management from a major school of public policy at a large university. Boards are the governing body and if a board is totally unaware of what is going on inside an organization, then the board is not doing its job. This is the third public sex scandal that has hit this organization. Two involved Gothard, the other his brother. Also, Gil quit a good paying job while Kelly still pumped out babies so that he could grift. His tree business barely keeps the family afloat and Kelly admits they have to borrow money from other adult children to stay afloat. All three of their daughters have been given to dyed in the wool members of the ATI cult. Alyssa's father in law John Webster is pretty much nuts. Brandon Keilon works at headquarters. Chad Paine's dad sits on the board with Gil.

It boggles my mind that someone can actually defend these people. I agree with the above posters that it is silly to pick on things like the cute scene at the grocery with the sisters or Alyssa's staged for the camera pregnancy announcement. They are certainly more pleasant to watch than other s because they seem to like each other. But to mistake these people for anything other than what they are is naive. They are no less toxic than the Duggars or Bill Gothard.

[nelliebelle1197]

Do we know why the Bates' show is not being shown on TLC? Seems like a natural for this network. Could it be that the Duggars did not want it on TLC and their request was honored by the network?

I doubt it. Their previous show on TLc was canceled because of ratings. TLC would have no reason to bring them back.

[formergothardite]

I have to agree with this. Yes, these people have toxic beliefs, but it feels wrong to snark on things like Carlin and Erin's supermarket moment when I'd have found it a sweet, sisterly moment if it was on Keeping up with the Kardashians.

People aren't totally black and white. Just because I don't like what these people stand for doesn't mean they can't ever have a likeable moment or be endearing sometimes.

Like, I dislike Stephen Harper for many many reasons, but I thought he did a great job sensitively handling the Parliament Hill shootings last October.

It's possible to be like 'I don't agree with this person or like what they stand for, but I think they were nice/sweet/came across well when they did this/said this' etc.

Of course they have likeable moments even the Duggars have likable moments. But at the same time, it is best to remember that these are handpicked moments that were put on television just to try and make people forget what the family really stands for, and judging by how many people here seem to think Gil and Kelly are decent, good parents, it seems to be working.

If the Bates children turn out to be decent, kind humans who don't try and force their beliefs on everyone else, it will be despite their parents, not because of their parents. Gil and Kelly have done their best to hinder and limit their children's option and to make sure that they don't press the boundaries too much.

[RosyDaisy]

Ok. I was a little harsh in earlier posts in this thread. These people are part of a belief system that is dangerous, and they seek to take the rights of others away. So, it's kind of hard not to pick apart and snark on what they say and do.

[formergothardite]

Maybe you're right. But by the same token Kelly Jo isn't robo-calling people and filling their heads with lies while preaching hate. And the kids seem to be making their way in world by doing things that interest them, as opposed to what daddy gives them (car dealership) or tells them to do. Say what you will about Erin and college, but the fact remains that she went and she graduated, which is a hell of a lot more than what any of the Duggars have done (extra points for not forcing one of their other daughters to also get a degree from the same school because Erin needed a chaperona a la Jana and her "doula" career). Unlike the Duggars, we've never seen Kelly really teach her kids, but the fact that the older ones are doing SOMETHING leads me to believe that they may not be as uneducated as the Duggars.

As for Gil and Gothard. That does bother me. But I've spent my entire career working with non-profit boards as a staff member and as a volunteer. You have NO idea what information he's being presented with, how decisions are being made and how he's voting. I am not absolving Gil of responsibility, but I am not willing to condemn the ENTIRE Bates family either.

It should more than bother you. You should be so bothered that you would never think that he is a decent human or parent. Yes, the board was informed well before the rest of us were about what was going on. RG wanted to make sure that the BoD couldn't start claiming that they didn't follow biblical standards. RG is not even going to release all the details of what really happened and what the BoD was told because they don't think that the general public needs to know all the intimate details of what Bill Gothard did to these women and girls. And even before RG stepped in the BoD knew enough that they practically begged Bill Gothard to stop choosing teen girls and spending huge amounts of time alone with them. When he did not do that, what did they do? Nothing. Absolutely fucking nothing. And Gil being the "decent" father he is allowed his own daughters to travel to another country with Gothard.

Kelly used a buddy system just like Michelle. The new baby was assigned a buddy before it was even born. Apparently she dumped changing diapers on the girls, because God forbid a son do that. Then we have Gil who is a first class grifter. If TLC and the Duggars had not helped them with this house, they would be in much worse shape.

And I wish people would acknowledge when they praise the Bates that they have the benefit of years watching the Duggars and reading about what people find unlikable about them. They are very, very media savvy. Every single moment you are seeing they is a moment they want you to see and it is going to be filled with "look we aren't anything like the Duggars" moments because they already know exactly what people will criticize and how to avoid it. When Kelly discussed adoption on her blog I sent a link with Gothard's teachings on the subject and asked if they agreed with him. She didn't post it because no way in hell is she going to want blog readers to see that they associate themselves with a man who thinks adopted children will bring sin into your home. Same with the pictures of her sons in see through wet shirts. I asked how this was modest. No answer. Kelly only answers questions when she knows that she can give an answer that will make them look good. If there is a chance that the question and answer is going to reflect badly on the family it will never see the light of day. I bet you won't see them doing any live call-in shows either. They know that the risk of being confronted about their true beliefs is too high.

[copyed]

Say what you want about the Bates -- and I certainly take issue with their belief system -- but the show is actually kind of fun to watch as a juxtaposition to the Duggars, because the Bates family doesn't sound like a bunch of mushmouth idiots. The Bateses are articulate. The women have pleasant voices, good vocabularies and good diction. There's variation in the things they say -- if the producers are feeding them questions, the answers certainly don't sound as canned or forced as the Duggars'. They don't try to spin every answer in a way that tries to be Christian but only results in passive-aggressive rudeness (e.g. the way the Duggars characterize Amy as "interesting" and "unique" or Ethiopian food as "different").

Score one for the UP network!

[RosyDaisy]

WTH? Knowing we know about the Bates family, how on earth can anybody find them likeable? I'm beginning to think I've stepped into an alternate universe full of Bates leg bumpers.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

WTH? Knowing we know about the Bates family, how on earth can anybody find them likeable? I'm beginning to think I've stepped into an alternate universe full of Bates leg bumpers.

As I said before, I understand their belief systems are messed up, I understand the terrible things they promote, but that doesn't mean that they are pure evil. Likeable doesn't mean that I agree with them. Likeable doesn't mean I want to follow in their footsteps. Likeable doesn't mean that they're absolved from their sins. Their personalities are not their beliefs.

[nelliebelle1197]

WTH? Knowing we know about the Bates family, how on earth can anybody find them likeable? I'm beginning to think I've stepped into an alternate universe full of Bates leg bumpers.

FG said likable moments. I am pretty sure people are confusing moments with character.