Bringing Up Bates

[HereticHick]

Watching all the video clips introducing all the kids, I'm disappointed that NO ONE was talking about a love of reading or academics. For the boys, it was all sports, sports, sports, except for one boy who said he loved to read the bible (and I really got the feeling the producers had to edit out some eyerolling responses from the other 2 boys with him). To be fair, many other totally secular boys would say the same things--all sports, no reading.

[nelliebelle1197]

when I was a kid, the expression "bun in the Oven" was considered vulgar. I know it is silly, but it still strikes me that way. In my area, that was often the term applied to a woman who was pregnant outside of marriage. "Knocked Up" was the same way. They were both used in derogatory ways to refer to a woman who was not married and "in trouble'.

Alyssa, doesn't seem as warm as the rest of the girls. Pretty girl, though she and Erin both need some help with the eyebrow situation, but she didn't give off the same warmth, yet, but she had little screen time compared to some of the others.

I like that the show seems to focus on the Boys as much as the Girls. It seems on the Duggars, the girls are the focus and the boys get very little screen time, other than Josh, and Jackson

Yes, it is a very vulgar term.

[nelliebelle1197]

I watched the first episode on Youtube last night (thanks to the person who posted it) and all the video clips on the UP website today. That doesn't mean that I'm a "Bates leghumper" or a "Bates justifier" or participating in a "Bates circle jerk." The Bates are part of a dangerous cult. However, I am not **consumed** with Bates hatred. I wasn't raised to see the world in black and white, but I was raised to believe that obsessive hate, especially driven by knee-jerk responses, is incredibly self-destructive (and, ahem, unChristian, which is important to me, but I am not saying that it should be important to anyone else).

I'm interested in the Bates for 2 main reasons: they are from "my neck of the woods" and I am always fascinated by media portrayals of those of us from Appalachia, and I have close family and friends who work for several different television networks--including TLC--so I am fascinated to watch how they are being portrayed, and especially to see what "lessons have been learned" from their previous reality tv experiences, and how, if the show continues, reality tv will change them.

A few observations:

1. Its interesting to see that many of us thought Erin was a stuck up priss at first, and now we've warmed to her.

2. The whole family seems more articulate, and with a better vocabulary than the Duggars. There were a number of words used that surprised me, like "variables." Yes, I know some of you feel that those of us with Appalachian accents are knuckle-dragging troglodytes.

3. The interviews seem so much more relaxed that those of the Duggars, which helps the Bates to be more articulate, I think. Is it perhaps that the Duggars are more scripted? Do JB and Michelle insist on a metric ton of Gothardite catch phrases in every interview?

4. My bottom line: the Bates seem to be much less self-conscious than the Duggars on camera--which makes them more articulate and more likeable. What I'd like to know is, is this the doing of the show producers, or of the parents? Does Michelle tell the kids to only say X Y & Z and be a good Christian before the cameras, and Kelly only says "hey, be yourself?" And will the Bates kids grow more self-conscious as the show goes on?

5. Have we ever heard a Duggar utter the word "boyfriend" or "girlfriend"? Or talk about how they were physically attracted to their now-spouse? I don't think so!

6. If you haven't watched the clip on the Up website of the little Bates girls talking about their favorite pet snake, I highly recommend it. I'd like them to take their snake to Arkansas and terrorize the Duggar kids with it.

7. I remember years ago, the Duggars J'slaves talking smack about the Bates girl's fashion, back when the Bates were still in the frumpers. I always assumed the Duggars looked down on the Bates as hicks. But after watching these video clips, I wouldn't be surprised if the Bates think the Duggar kids are a bunch of stuck-up sissies.

8. Alyssa is sooo tiny, and I agree, I think she is enjoying life without a dozen people around at all times. And yeah, she looks waay older than she is.

10. The show, so far, is seriously downplaying their belief system. It will be interesting if they open up on this more in future episodes since they are on a "Christian" network.

I don't think most people on here hate them; I think most of us were pretty horrified to see the leghumping and the excuses people made for them because they are so cute. I think they are pretty terrible but I don't hate them. I actually don't even hate PeePee. It is far too strong and passionate an emotion to waste on these people.

[HereticHick]

Yes, it WAS is a very vulgar term. But is no longer.

On the other hand, "Bates Circle Jerk" is still an extremely vulgar term. :D

[Idolatry]

I think I got the gist of this show. BABIESSSSS!!! ALL THE BABIESSS!!!! Feel sorry for poor Erin. I'm sure she'll cry every other episode. Having lost babies, my heart breaks for Erin going through it like this on TV.

I don't remember them sounding like this. I had to put the captions on, and I was cringing. All the "when we seen it" "you was the first" "gum-it of possibilities"! These people made the Duggars sound like they're on Downton Abbey. They sounded like uneducated hilbillies.

[nelliebelle1197]

Yes, it WAS is a very vulgar term. But is no longer.

On the other hand, "Bates Circle Jerk" is still an extremely vulgar term. :D

I still find that term very tacky. I don't know anyone who would use it. In fact, I think I have only heard it on tv, :wink-penguin:

[singsingsing]

Weird, I've never heard 'bun in the oven' as anything but a cute euphemism for pregnancy. It certainly never had any vulgar or tacky connotations in my realm of experience!

[Idolatry]

Weird, I've never heard 'bun in the oven' as anything but a cute euphemism for pregnancy. It certainly never had any vulgar or tacky connotations in my realm of experience!

Me too, and my family is fundie. It was even used as a euphemism to talk around kids.

Now, Bates circle jerk was only for special occasions.

[amster]

when I was a kid, the expression "bun in the Oven" was considered vulgar. I know it is silly, but it still strikes me that way. In my area, that was often the term applied to a woman who was pregnant outside of marriage. "Knocked Up" was the same way. They were both used in derogatory ways to refer to a woman who was not married and "in trouble'.

Alyssa, doesn't seem as warm as the rest of the girls. Pretty girl, though she and Erin both need some help with the eyebrow situation, but she didn't give off the same warmth, yet, but she had little screen time compared to some of the others.

I like that the show seems to focus on the Boys as much as the Girls. It seems on the Duggars, the girls are the focus and the boys get very little screen time, other than Josh, and Jackson

Alyssa seemed to keep her family at arms length. She wasn't as excited and sweet as the rest of them. She seemed more matter-of-fact and unemotional. It was a little jarring tbh

[Toothfairy]

The Bates are evil people just like the Duggars. Their personalities doesn't faze me. Gil and Kelly are no different than JimChelle. They use their adult children to support their family, kept having kids they couldn't afford, I'm sure they use and support the Pearls, they keep their kids uneducated with no choices, Kelly is still trying for baby number 20, they still actively support gothard and probably knew about the abuse rumors for years, yet they probably still kept sending their kids to JTTH, Alert, or some other brainwashing reprogramming. I don't really see a difference between the two expect their personality

[RosyDaisy]

I really don't give a rat's ass where the Bates live. However, I do think they lay the southern charm on really thick. Kelly's shit eatin' grin is a dead giveaway.

[formergothardite]

I don't think most people on here hate them; I think most of us were pretty horrified to see the leghumping and the excuses people made for them because they are so cute. I think they are pretty terrible but I don't hate them. I actually don't even hate PeePee. It is far too strong and passionate an emotion to waste on these people.

I don't hate the Bates family, I dislike them and think that the way they are able to sugar coat everything and come off as more likeable makes them 100% more dangerous than the Duggars. And I find it surprising that people are going to act like they are good parents after knowing about what Gil is involved in doing.

I noticed in the other Bates thread that people were discussing how different Erin comes off on this show. It makes me wonder how much it is editing that makes the Duggar children seem so unlikable and robotic. It could be that on a differently edited show the Duggar kids would come off as personable and natural as the Bates kids do.

[MistofRain752]

Honestly, I saw them bringing the Bateses onto TLC as a reflection of when they brought all those shows about high order multiples onto the network when Jon and Kate were going down. None of those shows were kept because TLC had no intention of keeping them. They chose the Bateses for the same reason they chose the Hayeses and the Joneses; they are a competition for the current show, they're likeable so people aren't going to be instantly offended by them, but they're too likeable so they're not going to last too long. I don't know the reasoning behind why TLC does this, but it was very clear that TLC was starting to shove the Duggars under the bus (as they did with Jon and Kate) at the same time that they introduced the Bateses to the lineup. I'm pretty sure they had every intention of doing away with the Duggars.

The answer is simple! They are beginning to cost TLC too much money! The Duggar's demand more money, cost of producing the show, set people start saying things like if JimBob, Michelle or one of the children need something, they jump. It wouldn't surprise me if Michelle hasn't become demanding like Katie G. and look what they did too her. Slow leaks to the rag mags trying to discredit them. I find it funny that I complained on the Smuggler blog that I was tired of seeing the little kids when they go somewhere nice, dressed like their clothes came from some mission barrel. That changed next season. I got really mad when they showed all the clothes and baby things stored in the warehouse. Things that could have been donated to some charity. I thought the Duggar's don't believe in using credit cards. I've seen JB use them on several occasions. Never watched the show but remember how fast Honey Boo was pulled. Do you really know what happened their?

[Paperplate]

I think I got the gist of this show. BABIESSSSS!!! ALL THE BABIESSS!!!! Feel sorry for poor Erin. I'm sure she'll cry every other episode. Having lost babies, my heart breaks for Erin going through it like this on TV.

I don't remember them sounding like this. I had to put the captions on, and I was cringing. All the "when we seen it" "you was the first" "gum-it of possibilities"! These people made the Duggars sound like they're on Downton Abbey. They sounded like uneducated hilbillies.

Umm ... what? The Bates don't speak Standard English but neither do the Duggars. They all have a rather loose grip on "proper" English grammar.

I can still understand all of them fine, and I'm not even a native speaker.

I understand the prejudices connected with people's speech, but that's all they are – prejudices.

Speaking a particular dialect or having a regional accent has nothing to with intelligence.

[Paperplate]

I don't hate the Bates family, I dislike them and think that the way they are able to sugar coat everything and come off as more likeable makes them 100% more dangerous than the Duggars. And I find it surprising that people are going to act like they are good parents after knowing about what Gil is involved in doing.

I noticed in the other Bates thread that people were discussing how different Erin comes off on this show. It makes me wonder how much it is editing that makes the Duggar children seem so unlikable and robotic. It could be that on a differently edited show the Duggar kids would come off as personable and natural as the Bates kids do.

Not sure about this. I mean, some of the Duggar kids leave a better impression that others. Are they editing it so that we e.g. like Joy-Anna, but dislike Josh?

In their recent "home video" they all seemed stiff and it wasn't really edited. (But they mostly seemed to hate the script ...)

[Idolatry]

Umm ... what? The Bates don't speak Standard English but neither do the Duggars. They all have a rather loose grip on "proper" English grammar.

I can still understand all of them fine, and I'm not even a native speaker.

I understand the prejudices connected with people's speech, but that's all they are – prejudices.

Speaking a particular dialect or having a regional accent has nothing to with intelligence.

Uh, did you watch it??? They didn't know basic grammar of a four year old.

My parents are fundies with minimal education who even resisted my higher education, but they know how to read, have books, and are literate. If I went on TV saying "You was the first" or "When we seen it" my parents would be LIVID. They would view this as making fun of them and their religion. They'd be more pissed about the hillbilly stereotype than my defrauding wardrobe. Just because you're fundie doesn't mean you don't know how to speak English. Hell, Zsu's English is perfect, and that's like her third language.

I've never seen anyone on TV saying "When we seen it." Not Duck Dynasty, not Teen Mom. I have high TV standards. :D The Duggars use fundie-isms that don't make sense to most viewers, but they know how to speak English.

[gustava]

I agree with Paperplate. Grammar relates to education, not intelligence. I should know, as I am a retired college English professor.

[formergothardite]

I found the article where Kelly can't name her children.

When asked to name her children, Kelly said, "Oh, Daddy's good at that. His memory's better than mine." Gil Bates easily rattled off all 18 names

When looking for it I came on another interview where she is asked to name the kids, she just looks at Gil and he does it. She is clearly no more involved than Michelle if she can't even provide the names of all her children.

In this same article she discusses how happy she is holding a baby, how her and Gil have tons of time to spend together because the older children just love to watch the younger ones so that the parents can spend time alone(that has shades of Jill Rodrigues and her "my kids want to take pictures of me! I don't ask them." :roll: ), how it is a blessing that the kids can learn on the computer because the computer does the work for her, and that the girls wanted to sleep eight to a room.

The house has a camera system so that Gil and Kelly can keep track of what all the children are doing.

Kelly also wanted two more boys. She can't even name her children yet she wants more. Seriously, she is not a better mother than Michelle, she is only better at looking like she is.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/evangelical-ba ... 595&page=2

[realist51]

Many people who speak regional dialects are able to switch from dialect to standard English when the situation demands. The Bates family may or may not be able to do that, but I am not going to draw conclusions based on expressions that could be colloquialisms. As for policing their grammar and making judgments of their education level from it....uh....do you ever notice the often not-quite-standard grammar of the posts on this board?

[HereticHick]

I really don't give a rat's ass where the Bates live. However, I do think they lay the southern charm on really thick. Kelly's shit eatin' grin is a dead giveaway.

Meaning, you think her grin & accent is fake?

She sounds exactly like some of my friends and relatives back home (of various races). Some of them are sickly syrupy sweet, but it isn't fake, its their real personality. And some of them are quite secular, too.

I agree with others that so much depends on editing. UP is working hard to make the Bates seem likeable; TLC sometimes seems to work to make the Duggars unlikeable (I love the phrase that someone in FJ used about them-- "passive aggressive rudeness").

Someone questioned earlier why I thought the Bates kids might think the Duggar kids are stuck up sissies, when some of them seem to be good friends. I don't deny that some of them aren't close friends, but I still bet there are times when they think snarky things about the other. I can especially see Bates boys thinking some of the J'Slaves are stuck up prisses.

[Buzzard]

The thing is, decent people don't help cover up child abuse. Decent people, when they are on a BoD and hear rumors that the head guy has been using his position to groom and sexually harass(with at least one accusation of pretty nasty molestation) young teen girls, they don't ask the guy to stop being alone with teen girls and then do nothing when the man ignores them. Decent people don't get packets of information showing that the head guy has a long history of lying, covering up the sexual harassment done by others, and accusations of sexual harassing teens who are sent to be counseled and mentored by him and then do their best to keep this information from becoming public. Decent people don't send their own daughters to travel with a guy like Bill Gothard knowing what they knew about him.

No Gil Bates is not a decent person. And it is so frustrating to read this thread and know that people here know what he did and still think that he and Kelly are decent, kind, loving parents. No, they put on a good show, but they are not decent or good parents. Their love seems to be conditional just like the Duggars love their children. As long as the adult children don't step too far outside the narrow bounds, as long as they stay behind the "hedge of protection" the parents will love them. But you think the love would be the same if a daughter wanted to go off to college and have a career? Or if a child is gay?

Decent people call the police.

The Bates boys have been seen in DC with Smuggles on numerous occasions at rallys. They are just as active in the politics of hate as the Duggars, they just keep a lower profile. Since they dont have the name recognition that the Duggars think they have they just lend manpower and possibly money to the cause. Dont be fooled, they are just as much a part of the machine as the Duggars. The "cute" portrayal is just part of the act.

[nolongerIFBx]

Weird thing I just noticed, but when Gil was helping with the Dry wall, I noticed that he was applying the joint compound directly over a big gap where 2 sheets of drywall meet. I am not expert, but I am pretty sure you have to put tape between the two pieces, and then you put the joint compound or the sticky stuff, whatever it is called, on top of that and smooth it out so when you paint it is a smooth surface. Without that Tape, the gap will show through eventually.

Zach was putting the tape on after Gill put on the joint compound.

I felt there was a little snark on Alyssa from her sisters after she announced her pregnancy. The girls seemed mad that Alyssa had told a bunch of other people before telling anyone in the Bates family. It was also interesting how in the beginning 2 of the girls mentioned how Whitney was like another sister and Chad another brother now, but how Alyssa and her husband were so far away they weren't as close. Might be some tension there? I thought Erin handled all the baby excitement really well, I would not have been able to go to the shower and probably would have cried at Alyssás announcement, but that's just me.

I never saw Erin or Chad at the Bates house when Alyssa made her announcement. Part of me is certain that she left the baby shower and went home and cried her eyes out.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

In case it hasn't been posted https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xk0ZEAPhGjM

[IReallyAmHopewell]

If people can't get from this that ATI/IBLP is a CULT then they are blind. Two completely unrelated families who are exactly a like. I liked the Bates until I watched this. Now it's just the Duggars without Michelle's weird voice and total disconnection from the kids. They even have the mandatory kisses and the creepy "observant listening" thing that makes me nuts.

I also think, like Josh, that Zack went hungry in his teen years--look how he's porked out. Ug

Now that they've publicly shamed Erin on her lack of a baby I hope they'll shut up and let the poor woman grieve the way she obviously needs to. And, any day now, another Bates will get married and "beat her" to Mommyhood/ i.e. validation as a woman. Babies, babies, babies--I notice they don't say "children" or "future teenagers" but BABIES. The stupid Bun in the Oven thing--wow. Like a joke shirt a junior high kid would love.

Sorry Gil and Kelly, you lost my vote.

[formergothardite]

I really hope that Erin has never read the IBLP medical journals on miscarriages. But since even my family who wasn't as deep into ATI as they are had them on the shelves, I bet Gil and Kelly do to.