Caleb Williams

[formergothardite]

38 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

It’s about the fact that she is blaming a 15-year-old girl for being sexually abused and casting her 22-year-old abuser as the victim. Not only is that wrong, it’s scary.

Exactly. I can actually understand not reporting when you are 19 and the parents are saying it is okay. But, as time goes by, to decide and maintain that a child was to blame because she "wanted it", is completely out of line. We don't blame children when adults prey on them, at least we shouldn't. And yes, an adult who goes along with "she wants it" is preying on a child. That includes this 15 year old girl and the man she eventually married. 

[HurricaneBells]

It would be interesting to hear from the lady in question actually although awkward. I'm curious what she herself thinks of it even after all this time. Look after your boy, I hope everything gets better for him!

[AliceInFundyland]

For research purposes I reviewed The Crush. I was bored and interested about the lens of history.

25 years later I have to say it’s a movie that wouldn’t (probably) happen now. 

What does Cary Elwes do that is bad?

He does kiss her

He gets stuck in her closet and see her naked (Her doing)

Lots of peering through blinds.

He never reports her. Or move out of the house. He does try to shut her down. Where would the plot go if this was effective?

She’s a crazed psychopath who breaks her friend’s arm. Sends wasps into a darkroom. Possibly poisoned a former crush. And again faked her rape. It isn’t predatory behavior, it’s insane.

Culminating in a scene where she beats up her own father for protecting her.

It’s just an utterly ridiculous movie. The inherent problem is the general theme of sexualizing young girls and men not being able to control themselves. But...it is SO campy and ridiculous that attempting to compare regular teenage girls to Alicia is absurd.

Again, likely wouldn’t and shouldn’t happen now (which is the obvious cue for a painful remake)

 

 

 

[Fluffypaws]

Question: I'm still making my way through this thread, but is this the same guy that helped Turd paint that bedroom in D.C. for The Boob and Mechelle to stay in? 

[Chewing Gum]

16 hours ago, Kailash said:

@Shadoewolf You seem to have missed the very important fact that a 15 year old girl CANNOT consent to sex with a 22 year old man. No matter how mature, or how much she pursues him. Because of the age difference. Never ever ever. No one wants to villify you. We want you to understand and acknowledge that simple fact. 

I’m sorry your son is having such a rough time. I hope the situation improves for him. 

True! 

15 hours ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

And on the topic of the teenage "seductress" with an adult...

 

The adult in question needs to realize that, as the adult, it was his responsibility to refuse to pursue anything. She could lock him in a room and refuse to let him out unless he gave her access to his penis and he should refuse.

This is what my counselor at school told me. That no matter what, even if I danced naked in front of him, he was not to touch me. I was groomed at 20/21 by a 53yo teacher, which lasted 8 months. Trauma therapy lasted 5 years. 

This is a thread close to home for me. My first relationship, I was 15 he was 23. And no matter how ready I thought I was, and how shy/virgin (unlike me)/kind he was, it shouldn't have happened. The difference in maturing, seeing cause/effects etc.just isn't developped at 15. We were together for 2,5 years. At 19 I started the relationship with my boyfriend, now husband, then 35. Now at 33 and 49, married and 2 kids later, it's an interesting look back at how things evolved. Naturally my parents were against it, forbade the relationship, but at 19 you can't do that much. I moved out on my own even though I wasn't ready, which made me vulnarable for my groomer/rapist. 

[Carm_88]

I feel the teenaged seductress is just an excuse for men behaving badly. Sure there may be some teenaged girls who are very in tune with their own sexuality and just want that older man. I just feel like that is a very rare type of person; now the pervy older man. Oh there are lots of those! 

[nelliebelle1197]

22 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Not reporting something like that as a teenager is one thing. But continuing to defend the perpetrator and blame the victim as an adult? There is absolutely no excuse for that.

In this case, she is defending her own behavior when she stood by and allowed the BiL's behavior to go unpunished.

[Lurky]

4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I feel the teenaged seductress is just an excuse for men behaving badly. Sure there may be some teenaged girls who are very in tune with their own sexuality and just want that older man. I just feel like that is a very rare type of person; now the pervy older man. Oh there are lots of those! 

It ties in to so many misogynistic tropes, but it also amazes me how much people who think like this really dislike all the men in their life.  It assumes men are pitiful creatures who are completely uncontrollable when aroused, and incapable of having any moral standards, and so women have to always be careful around them, because men are basically animals who can't control themselves.  They assume men don't have a moral compass, or ethical standards, or brains, they just have a dick.  I can't imagine thinking about the men in my life like this - I hold them to the same standards I hold my women friends *because* I like, love, respect and trust them.  This kind of thinking absolves the men of blame ("a teenager had a crush on him, so he had no choice") but it reduces them to animals, and it really makes me sad for the good men and boys whose families and friends don't see them as fully human. 

ETA I'm always surprised when it's conservative types who simultaneously believe men are natural leaders, and also can't be held accountable for anything when their dicks get hard.  All those people who don't even trust *themselves* to be in a room alone with a woman, but at the same time think they're built by God as the best gender?  The cognitive dissonance burns me.

[Pecansforeveryone]

@Lurky, oh a big hearty amen to that. One of the most consistently vile and misogynistic fundies I have  encountered continues to be John Piper. He's a published author and pastor of a very large church! His followeres idolize him. This misogny does not even remotely start and end with Bill Gothard. 

[quiversR4hunting]

23 hours ago, Fluffypaws said:

Question: I'm still making my way through this thread, but is this the same guy that helped Turd paint that bedroom in D.C. for The Boob and Mechelle to stay in? 

Good question! The only thing I can find is this article but it doesn't say anything about help - https://hollywoodlife.com/2014/04/22/19-kids-counting-josiah-graduation-duggar-family-dc-bus-trip-episode-recap/

bummer

On 12/22/2018 at 2:06 PM, bal maiden said:

Have there been any public Duggar reactions to Caleb and his brother’s arrest? 

I doubt they ever will, just like they stepped back from Gothard- at least publicly. 

[JordynDarby5]

8 hours ago, Lurky said:

It ties in to so many misogynistic tropes, but it also amazes me how much people who think like this really dislike all the men in their life.  It assumes men are pitiful creatures who are completely uncontrollable when aroused, and incapable of having any moral standards, and so women have to always be careful around them, because men are basically animals who can't control themselves.  They assume men don't have a moral compass, or ethical standards, or brains, they just have a dick.  I can't imagine thinking about the men in my life like this - I hold them to the same standards I hold my women friends *because* I like, love, respect and trust them.  This kind of thinking absolves the men of blame ("a teenager had a crush on him, so he had no choice") but it reduces them to animals, and it really makes me sad for the good men and boys whose families and friends don't see them as fully human. 

ETA I'm always surprised when it's conservative types who simultaneously believe men are natural leaders, and also can't be held accountable for anything when their dicks get hard.  All those people who don't even trust *themselves* to be in a room alone with a woman, but at the same time think they're built by God as the best gender?  The cognitive dissonance burns me.

Well said!

[SilentSnark]

I’ve been reading this thread with my mouth hanging open. My first reaction outside of disgust and horror was to think that it makes sense that someone who identifies as a Slytherin would be a rape apologist. (No offense to any good Slytherins out there, but HP fans should totally get where I am coming from). 

[SadieJane]

So I just want to weigh in here.  I work psych. A large majority of my patients, and I work with adolescence mostly, have been sexually assaulted at some point in their lives. It kills me to read this thread and seeing so many people saying that this is basically okay because at 14, sure they could consent. Whatever.

Fuck That.

 

You cannot justify this behavior. There is no consenting at that age, and if you think there is, you need some deep introspective. At 14, I was a ball of hormones, I won't lie. I thank god no one groomed me then. I would have fell deep into it.

This thread has left me with my mouth wide open, my head shaking, and at moments being literally outraged. Don't justify illegal actions made by adults against children because you think its the norm. It is not the norm. It is the complete opposite of.

[EmmieJ]

On 12/23/2018 at 11:34 AM, Lurky said:

ETA I'm always surprised when it's conservative types who simultaneously believe men are natural leaders, and also can't be held accountable for anything when their dicks get hard.  All those people who don't even trust *themselves* to be in a room alone with a woman, but at the same time think they're built by God as the best gender?  The cognitive dissonance burns me.

Exactly.  They want it both ways.  Men are supposed to be naturally the superior sex, the headship, the  decision makers, and women are to defer to them and are the weaker, lesser sex.  Except women, even young girls, are temptations to men, and suddenly all that moral superiority goes right out the window.  

Such ridiculousness.  

[NakedKnees]

Just caught up on all of this... Wow. Some longtime posters here have really surprised me. I know that thread drift is a part of fj culture, but I'd like to recommend a strong READ THE ROOM to everyone who thinks this is an appropriate place and time to go on diatribes that attempt to undercut these serious accusations, especially after seeing how it went for those first few posters. Even if it's not intentional, that's just trollish behavior.

I don't want to seem on a high horse... I too have stories and thoughts that would probably be hurtful or counterproductive to share in this context, so, they're for other contexts! Ending rape culture is more important than sharing every thought we want at any time. I feel like there's been a disrespectful lack of self control on that front in this thread.

I hope the victim(s), direct and indirect, are able to access whatever help they need.

[AussieKrissy]

On 12/22/2018 at 1:40 AM, Palimpsest said:

 

And you are not alone.  A friend of mine burned out on trying to work with sexual offender inmates.  I can't remember his exact words, but it was along the lines of - all they do in prison is share their experiences to find better methods of doing it again without getting caught.

Also the sentencing is messed up and not consistent among countries, states, or judges.  Some offenders get a mere slap on the wrist.  And plea bargaining gets heavily reduced sentences.

 

Bingo. Exactly. All of this. 

[snickers34]

On 12/29/2017 at 10:41 PM, snickers34 said:

I feel bad for this kid.

Ugh, posts that don't age well. This guy can go fuck himself.

[Edhelfin]

For those fcking rape apologists who think being 'controversial' is cute, here is some controversy for you:

When I was around 7, I wanted to have sex badly with an adult, 'the way they do it on TV'. I also had no idea what penetration was, how pregnancy occured, thought that penises are only for urinating etc. I thought you would kiss and stuff and then masturbate to the 'idea' of it all.

If a creep approached me and took any kind of sign as willingness or consent, my life, my sanity, my personality, my mental health status would all be different now. I was INCREDIBLY lucky that this did not happen. 

When I was 10, I knew a lot more - yet I made a list of men I would do such as Daniel Day Lewis, Marcus Schenkenberg, Axl Rose, Sebastian Bach and Jon Bon Jovi (the 90s...). I had many good, long hours of 'solo action' to the 'idea of it all'.

Later on, I had been 'in love' with many of my male teachers during my adolescent years. I loved the forced seduction and rape scenes in romance novels. I wanted to be groomed by a persistent alpha male. I was completely unaware that there is absolutely no romantic spin someone can put on this kind of behaviour or relationship - I was simply not developed mentally to make a healthy decision.

Words cannot express how grateful I am that I had the family, social circle, education and healthy relationships that I was LUCKY to have. Things could have gone very bad, had I met the wrong kind of people who would take advantage of me. Or I could have been someone who took advantage of other people, the way I wanted to be taken advantage of when I had NO idea what it even involved.

This is not romantic, it is not teenage love or seduction by a lolita, that 'nymphet' is a fucking child and if one feels like they have to reciprocate an advance (mostly imagined by the pedos themselves, of course) that is coming from a CHILD, they are sick in the head. If you feel like you have to defend such a behaviour, you are JUST AS SICK.

[curlykate]

Wow. Wow. WOW. 

I just got caught up on this thread, after a bit of a holiday-induced hiatus from FJ. I can’t believe what I’ve read!  

Thank you to those posters who pushed back and made it clear that FJ is not a welcoming place for rape apologists. 

[justmy2cents]

On 12/22/2018 at 9:01 PM, Fluffypaws said:

Question: I'm still making my way through this thread, but is this the same guy that helped Turd paint that bedroom in D.C. for The Boob and Mechelle to stay in? 

No, it's not. I believe you're thinking of Skyler Weiss. Another guy that people tried to link to Jana.

I'm glad there was nothing to the rumors with this guy. These fundies are terrible hypocrites. They can't be trusted to be around young girls/women.

[eveandadam]

On 12/23/2018 at 3:01 AM, Fluffypaws said:

Question: I'm still making my way through this thread, but is this the same guy that helped Turd paint that bedroom in D.C. for The Boob and Mechelle to stay in? 

Hm, I think it was either Skylar Weiss oder Caleb Williams. Sorry, Skylar, for mentionning you with him in the same sentence.

[JustEnough]

On 12/22/2018 at 3:53 PM, singsingsing said:

Again, not reporting it is one thing. But @Shadoewolf has literally been blaming a 15-year-old girl for ‘seducing’ a 22-year-old man and following it up with tangents about how many ‘predatory girls’ she knows. This isn’t really about her not reporting this crime as a teenager. It’s about the fact that she is blaming a 15-year-old girl for being sexually abused and casting her 22-year-old abuser as the victim. Not only is that wrong, it’s scary. She claims she’d act differently now, but I don’t believe her. She’d blame the ‘predatory girl’ and focus on lamenting the plight of the poor adult man who apparently is not in control of his own penis.

Agree with all of you pointing out the issues going down in this thread.

I wanted to comment on the bolded that I can't wrap my head around someone excusing not reporting a crime because she was so young (yet over the age of adulthood, though just) and yet the girl "knew exactly what she was doing" with a grown ass man when said girl was several years younger than our poster was at the time.

How was she supposed to know all the ways it was wrong when you apparently didn't know it was wrong to not call CPS or the police when a child wasn't being protected by the adults making decisions with/for her?

Eta: the you in the above paragraph is Shadoewolf, not the poster I quoted, in case that wasn't clear

[Shadoewolf]

I HAD bowed out of this. This is the last time I'm saying it. She was all for it. She was an active participant in the relationship. Whether you like/dislike the statement, that's the truth of it. Her parents didn't care. His parents knew, conversed with her parents and everything. At 18 and 19 respectively, when told to butt out by both the couple and both sets of their parents, the ex and I did just that. 

NOW I have a totally different opinion and would report that shit IN A HEARTBEAT.  DONE. OVER. 

[singsingsing]

19 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

I HAD bowed out of this. This is the last time I'm saying it. She was all for it. She was an active participant in the relationship. Whether you like/dislike the statement, that's the truth of it. Her parents didn't care. His parents knew, conversed with her parents and everything. At 18 and 19 respectively, when told to butt out by both the couple and both sets of their parents, the ex and I did just that. 

NOW I have a totally different opinion and would report that shit IN A HEARTBEAT.  DONE. OVER. 

Would you please shut the fuck up? Holy shit. I usually wouldn't say something like this to anyone on this board, but fuck off with this bullshit! Enough. STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY STATUTORY RAPE. If you're bowing out, bow the fuck out. I'm glad you believe you would act differently now, but the fact that you are STILL coming here to justify an adult man having sex with a 15-year-old girl and blaming the girl for it is SICK. If you still can't understand that, fuck off with your victim blaming, and dredging it up again, and again, and again. The only good thing that came out of this demented conversation was seeing how many others on this forum are equally sickened by the opinions you and a small minority hold. 

[Lisafer]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

Would you please shut the fuck up? Holy shit. I usually wouldn't say something like this to anyone on this board, but fuck off with this bullshit! Enough. STOP TRYING TO JUSTIFY STATUTORY RAPE. If you're bowing out, bow the fuck out. I'm glad you believe you would act differently now, but the fact that you are STILL coming here to justify an adult man having sex with a 15-year-old girl and blaming the girl for it is SICK. If you still can't understand that, fuck off with your victim blaming, and dredging it up again, and again, and again. The only good thing that came out of this demented conversation was seeing how many others on this forum are equally sickened by the opinions you and a small minority hold. 

The poster you quoted (whom I have thankfully ignored so that I can choose whether to see her posts) obviously has her head so far up her ass that no amount of explanation or remonstrance will do any good. I admire your effort, but it's useless. She's either looking to stir shit or has taken a PhD in willful ignorance. Or both. 

"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see."