Bates Updates - Part 2

[mstee]

Off topic, but my boyfriend and I were vacationing in Tennessee for the holidays and we stopped by a dam to sightsee. Well looking on a map, I realized we were next to lake city, where they live. I got all stalker-ish ad drove by their house since the dam was only 4 miles away. I'm in the group of liking the Bates more than the Duggars even though I rationally know they're both the same in beliefs. So I was all excited. Snapped a quick, blurry pic (their house is down a decent driveway and we didn't go down it). It's dumb but I felt I had to share since I know no one in my real life really cares (my boyfriend was like who even are these people). I would post the pic but I don't know how.

[ViolaSebastian]

I have a terrible question, that I certainly hope and pray never has to be considered by Erin and Chad, who I find to be an adorable couple with good heads on their shoulders. That being said, if, God forbid, a physician determines that she simply cannot carry to term under any circumstances, even with medical intervention, do you think they would be permitted to use birth control and avoid having three or four miscarriages a year for the rest of her fertile years? Surely it'd be okay then. I just can't imagine going through that over and over because my family viewed birth control as some terrible monster.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

Whether or not they believe that their misfortune is literally a punishment from God, their beliefs sure as hell can't be making it easier. Erin has spent her entire life preparing for her "highest calling" as a mother. They believe that the path to heaven is narrow and it involves living a specific kind of life that is obsessively centered on fertility. I'm not sure where or if a childless woman fits into their vision.

It just goes to show how cruel it is to raise your children so that they are only prepared to follow a one-size-fits-all lifestyle. You can control and train your children all you want but life never turns out exactly as planned. If you can't fit into the hetero, patriarchal, fertile, self-sufficient Thomas Kinkade painting that the parents envision-- and how many people can? -- you've been set up for distress.

[Dandruff]

Perhaps, if it turns out that Erin can't carry a baby to viability (and I hope this isn't the case), they'd consider adoption?

[anjulibai]

I have a terrible question, that I certainly hope and pray never has to be considered by Erin and Chad, who I find to be an adorable couple with good heads on their shoulders. That being said, if, God forbid, a physician determines that she simply cannot carry to term under any circumstances, even with medical intervention, do you think they would be permitted to use birth control and avoid having three or four miscarriages a year for the rest of her fertile years? Surely it'd be okay then. I just can't imagine going through that over and over because my family viewed birth control as some terrible monster.

I would really hope not, but who knows with some fundies. They may ignore doctor's advice and say maybe God will one day bless her with the ability.

[HuggleMonster]

March 20 they posted about her miscarriage.

She was wasn't very far along. Probably 8 weeks max. It's entirely possible to have had 3 miscarriages in that time.

A friend of mine had a miscarriage one month, and was pregnant again 4 weeks later. Her cycle returned to normal almost immediately.

[Ursula]

So since this is the general Bates family thread I guess I'll bring up this interesting tidbit here. Their family website has recently been updated again and while a lot of the kid's bios are the same something was added to Alyssa and John's that caught my eye.

"John works for the Webster’s family air conditioning business. He and Alyssa also clean commercial buildings as a side job."

That bolded part wasn't there when they did their spring update (the one with the red/white/black colour scheme). What's interesting is not only has John taken a second job but that Alyssa is apparently working with him as well. If "cleaning commercial buildings" is what I think it is, that is not easy work. It's physical labour, and almost always occurs in the form of a graveyard shift. I think it's great they're both financially contributing to the household income but what does it say about their Quiverfucked future when they have three, four, five, six, etc. more mouths to feed and clothe and shelter? They're living in Florida, close to Disney World as far as I know, so the cost of living there has gotta be higher than it was in Tennessee, or even somewhere else in Florida. How to they plan to support a double digit number of kids? Alyssa started younger than Kelly - she could very well beat her mom if her and John don't discover the wonders of birth control.

This lifestyle is just NOT sustainable in 2015. Back in the early 90s when the Bateses and Duggars were just starting times were different. The economy was better (well, I assume, I was pretty young then), everything was cheaper, land and homes could be purchased for a lot less than today. Most wages for blue collar jobs haven't really risen with inflation. Chad and Erin and John and Alyssa both rent the homes they live in. I'm pretty sure Zach and Whitney do as well. The Duggars give their kids free homes in exchange for whoring their children out on TV for the past 10 years. If everyone was following the Got-hard plan or that "financial freedom" BS JimBoob always spouts none of these kids would be getting married until their 40s because that's how long it would take them to save to be able to afford to buy land and a home outright with cash.

.....Actually, that would be awesome because then they would all be too old to breed like jackrabbits. Yes, please start doing that now, Got-hard followers :D

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Yeah Zach rents his home as well and he has had to work as a machinist, alongside Chad, to make ends meet. Not realistic for everyone to own their own businesses.

[HereticHick]

So since this is the general Bates family thread I guess I'll bring up this interesting tidbit here. Their family website has recently been updated again and while a lot of the kid's bios are the same something was added to Alyssa and John's that caught my eye.

"John works for the Webster’s family air conditioning business. He and Alyssa also clean commercial buildings as a side job."

That bolded part wasn't there when they did their spring update (the one with the red/white/black colour scheme). What's interesting is not only has John taken a second job but that Alyssa is apparently working with him as well. If "cleaning commercial buildings" is what I think it is, that is not easy work. It's physical labour, and almost always occurs in the form of a graveyard shift. :D

Good for John and Alyssa for starting a side job (and the Bates being willing to admit that a female does physical labor). And good for Brandon & Michaela for saving up before marriage.

Overall, the Bates seems to value money and work more than Duggars do. I think it will be fascinating to see if their new TV show changes that (and how quickly, if so)

[Wenny]

From the short time they had their show they modernizer so I feel this is no different.

[meep]

We can hope these real-world revelations will make the older Bates children really think about what they've been raised with.

[feministxtian]

One thing I'll give the Bates over the Duggars...the kids DO seem better educated, the curriculum that Kelly uses is much better than what J'chelle uses. Also, Zach AND Chad have regular jobs...where they have to go to work, show up on time, be productive, and seem to have some sort of skill set. The Bates parents don't seem to be as controlling over the kids...they let the kids essentially do their own things (within a pretty narrow worldview, but still...).

I don't like their belief system...I'm MUCH more liberal...but the Bates kids seem a little more free spirited, not as robotically brainwashed as the Duggar kids.

[Ursula]

Good for John and Alyssa for starting a side job (and the Bates being willing to admit that a female does physical labor). And good for Brandon & Michaela for saving up before marriage.

Overall, the Bates seems to value money and work more than Duggars do. I think it will be fascinating to see if their new TV show changes that (and how quickly, if so)

Oh, I agree that it's awesome they're both working and contributing financially to their home, at least until Alyssa gives birth. I'm just really curious as to why they took this job. Does John not work full time at his family's business? Did they need the supplemental income even if he was already doing full time hours? Was Alyssa just bored doing nothing all day and decided to work just to build some extra savings until the baby is born? We'll probably never know unless they bring it up on the show, and it's not our business anyway, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't super curious because if it's those first two reasons John and Alyssa will never, EVER be able to afford that "8...maybe 10 kids" she's spouted a couple of times.

Babies are freaking expensive, kids are freaking expensive, adolescents are freaking expensive, adult children that will stay home until they're married are freaking expensive. True these people won't have to worry about college tuition (sigh) but diapering just one baby alone is several hundred dollars. What if their baby needs formula because Alyssa can't produce enough milk on her own, or none at all and the kid needs to be entirely formula fed? Formula is CRAZY expensive, even the store brand massive cans from Costco or wherever.

I just think all these just married families starting out are in for a rude awakening when they realize just how costly it is to raise a family. The Duggars will sadly probably be fine with their "fame", such as it is, and if this new Bates show takes off in popularity they may be fine as well (something tells me the pockets of UPTV network don't run as deep as TLC's but we'll see), but what the hell do these other Quiverfucked families intend to do *looks at Rodrigues thread* ....oh :(

[Pretzel]

I always had the impression that in the Duggar household, Jill&Jana, along with Jim Bob and John David, were the only ones equipped with real work ethics while the Bateses value hard work and a chipping in of everyone, also the boys. I just can't stand 19kids episodes in which some howler boys lurk in front of their video programs while their sisters are exploited doing the laundry, shopping, cooking and cleaning. I know a lot of people hate that Lawson Bates (had to ) loan(ed) Erin a great deal of money for Clown College and that he probably paid some grocery bills when money was tight, but honestly, I loved it. It always seemed to me as if all Bates kids were raised to do hard physical work to contribute to the family. I liked that Lawson does the shopping, Nathan and Trace cut trees with Gil and building chicken coops and barns, Zach works hard to support his little family and the younger boys are made a part of the cleaning and cooking processes in the house. These kids are so much less likely to resent each other later because they can see that everyone contributed to the family life as much as they could at the time.

I don't want to know what it feels like for the J'slaves to see that they kept the family running while their misogynist brothers lazed around.

[eh02]

I always had the impression that in the Duggar household, Jill&Jana, along with Jim Bob and John David, were the only ones equipped with real work ethics while the Bateses value hard work and a chipping in of everyone, also the boys.

These kids are so much less likely to resent each other later because they can see that everyone contributed to the family life as much as they could at the time.

I don't want to know what it feels like for the J'slaves to see that they kept the family running while their misogynist brothers lazed around.

I think the even distribution and attitude behind it is key. The Bates kids ALL seem to work hard, and their parents work hard, too. They actually seem to want to help each other, whereas the Duggars basically just get handed a chore list by their lazy womb of a mother. The only work they're used to Jim Bob doing is haggling for freebies. The Duggar kids seem to fear their parents and know they are just expected to be obedient, whereas I think the Bates kids look like they have a deeper level of honest respect for Gil and Kelly.

I think the system the Duggars have has really raised the kids to be competitive and to struggle for attention in different ways. It's hard for me to imagine a huge family rift happening with the Bates kids. With the Duggars...I give it a few years.

[formergothardite]

I think the even distribution and attitude behind it is key. The Bates kids ALL seem to work hard, and their parents work hard, too. They actually seem to want to help each other, whereas the Duggars basically just get handed a chore list by their lazy womb of a mother. The only work they're used to Jim Bob doing is haggling for freebies. The Duggar kids seem to fear their parents and know they are just expected to be obedient, whereas I think the Bates kids look like they have a deeper level of honest respect for Gil and Kelly.

I think the system the Duggars have has really raised the kids to be competitive and to struggle for attention in different ways. It's hard for me to imagine a huge family rift happening with the Bates kids. With the Duggars...I give it a few years.

Gil teaches classes on how to be a first class grifter, I don't think he has a strong work ethic. If his kids got one it was despite him, not because Gil has gone out there and worked hard to provide for his family. It could also be that watching their dad grift his way through life has inspired them to work hard so that they won't have to do it. I'm sure that it was embarrassing to at least some of the Bates children that growing up their dad begged for others to support them.

[nokidsmom]

Oh, I agree that it's awesome they're both working and contributing financially to their home, at least until Alyssa gives birth. I'm just really curious as to why they took this job. Does John not work full time at his family's business? Did they need the supplemental income even if he was already doing full time hours? Was Alyssa just bored doing nothing all day and decided to work just to build some extra savings until the baby is born? We'll probably never know unless they bring it up on the show, and it's not our business anyway, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't super curious because if it's those first two reasons John and Alyssa will never, EVER be able to afford that "8...maybe 10 kids" she's spouted a couple of times.

Babies are freaking expensive, kids are freaking expensive, adolescents are freaking expensive, adult children that will stay home until they're married are freaking expensive. True these people won't have to worry about college tuition (sigh) but diapering just one baby alone is several hundred dollars. What if their baby needs formula because Alyssa can't produce enough milk on her own, or none at all and the kid needs to be entirely formula fed? Formula is CRAZY expensive, even the store brand massive cans from Costco or wherever.

I just think all these just married families starting out are in for a rude awakening when they realize just how costly it is to raise a family. The Duggars will sadly probably be fine with their "fame", such as it is, and if this new Bates show takes off in popularity they may be fine as well (something tells me the pockets of UPTV network don't run as deep as TLC's but we'll see), but what the hell do these other Quiverfucked families intend to do *looks at Rodrigues thread* ....oh :(

I am curious about why they took the cleaning job as well. In a way I was surprised because I was assuming John is working full time and Alyssa is probably happy being at home. But maybe they need the money, maybe it's earning extra, maybe it's time for them to spend together, though John has to be exhausted if he's doing full time work during the day. As mentioned above thread, this type of work is usually done during the night hours. One thing, it's winter so maybe the demand for AC work isn't as intense as it is during the summer months, so maybe it's making up the difference in income plus they can rest during the day.

[twinmama]

Why are we feeling so sorry for Erin's miscarriages when most of us don't support QF?

Moreover, three miscarriages in 14 months?? How would she even know she'd been pregnant 3 times? That's approximately one miscarriage every 4 months.

She'd be taking a pregnancy test every day.

I'm not diminishing the sorrow for those FJers who have miscarried. Just raising some questions.

First, miscarriage is sad regardless of your religious beliefs. Second, she's trying to have her first child, not her 19th.

And as someone who dealt with infertility (though not loss), if you are trying and having troubles, you test from the earliest possible day a positive could show up (way before your period is due). So she could get a positive test 10 days after she ovulates and miscarry a week later and most people wouldn't have even realized they were pregnant, but a woman who is trying to get pregnant and early testing will know.

[pineapple450]

Oh, I agree that it's awesome they're both working and contributing financially to their home, at least until Alyssa gives birth. I'm just really curious as to why they took this job. Does John not work full time at his family's business? Did they need the supplemental income even if he was already doing full time hours? Was Alyssa just bored doing nothing all day and decided to work just to build some extra savings until the baby is born? We'll probably never know unless they bring it up on the show, and it's not our business anyway, but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't super curious because if it's those first two reasons John and Alyssa will never, EVER be able to afford that "8...maybe 10 kids" she's spouted a couple of times.

Babies are freaking expensive, kids are freaking expensive, adolescents are freaking expensive, adult children that will stay home until they're married are freaking expensive. True these people won't have to worry about college tuition (sigh) but diapering just one baby alone is several hundred dollars. What if their baby needs formula because Alyssa can't produce enough milk on her own, or none at all and the kid needs to be entirely formula fed? Formula is CRAZY expensive, even the store brand massive cans from Costco or wherever.

I just think all these just married families starting out are in for a rude awakening when they realize just how costly it is to raise a family. The Duggars will sadly probably be fine with their "fame", such as it is, and if this new Bates show takes off in popularity they may be fine as well (something tells me the pockets of UPTV network don't run as deep as TLC's but we'll see), but what the hell do these other Quiverfucked families intend to do *looks at Rodrigues thread* ....oh :(

I would guess that its more along the lines of how "Josh and Anna owned the car lot." Alyssa probably handles the clients, maybe drives John around, but I doubt he has her scrubbing the walls, especially now that she's pregnant. She probably does the same type of cleaning she would do in her own home, not anything to scoff at, but at the same time, not exactly hard labor.

[singsingsing]

I am very interested to hear what the doctor is going to say about her miscarriages. It sounds like there is a medical cause, and it's not just one of those unknown things, which at least is good in a way. It seems like she's not having any problem conceiving, just problems carrying. It's possible she has problems with progesterone like her mother (although that only seemed to affect Kelly with her last few pregnancies, when she was older), or that there's some kind of genetic problem between her and Chad.

[Kira]

I so can't wait for the snark and rumors to increase and for the tabloids to have a field day with the Bates family. They are just as horrible and hateful as the Duggars. Hell, even Gil's family are barely able to tolerate them. I really don't get why people think this family is more likeable. I just don't.

The tabloid have so many stories they could write about the Bates:

1. Their shrine to Nathan Bedford Forrest.

2. GIL'S association with ATI and Gothard.

3. Gil couldn't support his family after quitting his job to work for Gothard. The (adult) children supported the family financially. Didn't Gil write a book about supporting your family without an income??? Interestingly, the Bates are now claiming that the tree business pays well. That is not what they've said in the past. Kelly has said that they qualify for government assistance

[Majessasticpearls]

Erin is lovely. Her appearances on 19 kids do not do her justice-she comes off as quite bubbly,easy to talk to,and sweet on BuB. Chad seems to level her out,as he appears to be very calm and reserved. It touched me when he talked about how the hardest part of the miscarriages was seeing Erin cry. I'm sure she always assumed she'd be able to get pregnant easily,especially since it was so ingrained in her culture and her mother was known for her mega-fertility. I hope everytrhing works out for the best :(

I'm sure reality is going to hit hard for John and Alyssa once they have the baby. 2nd generation fundies talk the talk,but I can't imagine some of the more hip fundies like Alyssa or Jessa living like their parents did pre-fame. I really don't see any of the Bates girls or Duggar girls rivaling their mothers in baby count,except for maybe Jill.

[HereticHick]

I agree Majessasticpearls. I totally can see Jill going for the megababy count, but I don't see many of the others doing it. I can see Michaella wanting to, but since she's turning 25 in a few weeks & still hasn't announced her engagement, she hopefully knows that the odds are against her in matching her mother's 19 (and I hope she doesn't try).

According to the video clips on the UP website, next week's episode will have Eric & Chad going to a doctor to deal her her multiple (yes, multiple) miscarriages.

And, yeah, it will be very interesting to see how Alyssa handles being a mom. I think she's been having a blast living away from a passel of kids, going to Disney World, eating out with her husband, & going to comedy clubs. This will be a rude awaking. Its a shame she couldn't have had a longer "honeymoon." A few Depo-provera shots would have done so much for her, and for John!

[calimojo]

Can someone explain more about Gil's grifting? I don't know much about that other than he worked somewhere and then quit. Did he really teach a class on this? To me, grifting means being a con artist, was he involved in Con Schemes? Or was he simply living hand to mouth, begging or at least being willing to be sponsored by his Fundie friends?

Is it considered Grifting because he quit his job and then did they have to go on government assistance? That is a form of a Con to me, if you willingly quit your job, knowing you have eleventy mouths to feed.

[socalrules]

I don't think that most of the second generation of fundies will have eleventy kids. We see most of these now adults taking baby steps away from what they were taught. Even if it is just having cable tv or going to places normally not allowed. Most of their parents had some kind of real education, even if it was just a high school diploma, not bad homeschooling where science is basically a myth. The newly adult fundies have little education or job prospects that will allow them to raise a big family. The younger generation just don't have the ability to financially support a large family. We have to remember that most of the large families now were not necessarily scraping by financially when the first few kids were born. Steve Maxwell and Gil Bates had real jobs in the early years. Jim Bob and Michelle worked hard as well. I don't see the younger generation making sacrifices like giving up their iphones, in order to have eight more kids. Plus, they grew up in homes where there were a million kids, they know the financial, physical, mental and emotional toll that will take. Especially those who grew up on the lower economic scale. I see people like the young Duggars having a lot of kids because it is expected for the dog and pony show. I don't see most unknown fundies making the same choice.