Sparkling Lauren, a super special sparkling surrogacy and a "gayby"

[Mama Mia]

I've been looking around trying to find the exact regulations for Iceland and it appears they are actually somewhere in the process of legalizing it, primarily because many gay couples have requested it, and have had commissions and committees doing reports for the last couple of years. I can't find exactly where they are in that process though, and all of the websites where it states it is illegal appear to be written at least 2 years ago, with no new updates.There was a case where a couple from Iceland had a gestational surrogate give birth in India, and there was a great deal of legal wrangling back and forth, but eventually the child was given Icelandic citizenship and returned to Iceland. That seems like it would be much, much more complicated a legal situation than this one, where the surrogate is actually the biological mother and will be giving birth in the country of the other biological parent and taking off.

I think with Iceland it appears the issue is more that they are trying to develop laws to cover this and they seem to put a lot of effort into considering every possible side to any issue. There are only like 600,000 people in the entire country, so I can't imagine they have a ton of test cases to draw on.

I know it's entirely different circumstances-- but one biological parent dumps a newborn on the other biological parent and bails back to their home country with no paperwork all the time. I don't know why it would draw a lot of attention? Except they chose to put it all over the Internet of course.

[Eternalbluepearl]

Listen up sparkly readers! I have a super special snowflake question about the red headed one who sparkles: I was reading old posts on her blog (like pre-2011 ish) and she sounds like a 100 percent completely different person. What happened? How did she go from a mom who was worried about what essentials to pack in her hospital bag (including shampoo!) and who would watch her babies while she was away to this non-washing, van dweller who could care less who watches her kids or what they do? I'm confused, is there a life changing blog post that I'm missing?!

[utter solitude]

Listen up sparkly readers! I have a super special snowflake question about the red headed one who sparkles: I was reading old posts on her blog (like pre-2011 ish) and she sounds like a 100 percent completely different person. What happened? How did she go from a mom who was worried about what essentials to pack in her hospital bag (including shampoo!) and who would watch her babies while she was away to this non-washing, van dweller who could care less who watches her kids or what they do? I'm confused, is there a life changing blog post that I'm missing?!

I believe it was in 2012, her husband took their infant son and "Walked off a bridge into a river", iirc. The baby died, husband in jail.

ETA: http://www.news.com.au/national/the-smile-of-a-tragic-angel-family-and-friends-in-shock-over-death-of-baby-boy-allegedly-killed-by-his-father-in-logan-river-bridge-plunge/story-e6frfkvr-1226407134404

[Rachel333]

I've been to Iceland a few times and pretty much just walked right in. I think I only got my passport stamped when I left the country. I don't know that Lauren would draw much attention either unless maybe Icelandic officials already knew about her plans. Unlikely, but still if you're doing something illegal it seems incredibly stupid to document it so well on the internet.

[thoughtful]

Ben, the American is NOT the biological father. Agust, the Icelandic IS the biological father.

Thanks. I was thinking that had to be the case, since Ben is Mr. Enthusiasm, and I thought that the less-enthused partner was the biological father. Thought I'd missed something somewhere.

Genetics is something that clearly none of these three understand that well. Two red-heads does NOT guarantee a red-headed child, which is what they are trying to deliberately breed. While the most basic understanding and most common mutation of red hair is a recessive gene trait, which is what these three think they have hit upon for their designer gayby, the fact is that there are unknown OTHER mutations that cause red hair, which is why it is not something you can easily breed for or out. Two red heads can have a dozen children and be lucky to have even ONE red headed child. Or, they can have four children and every single one have red hair.

Red hair is unpredictable for everyone but Ferd Berfel, apparently. :D

[church_of_dog]

I believe it was in 2012, her husband took their infant son and "Walked off a bridge into a river", iirc. The baby died, husband in jail.

ETA: http://www.news.com.au/national/the-smile-of-a-tragic-angel-family-and-friends-in-shock-over-death-of-baby-boy-allegedly-killed-by-his-father-in-logan-river-bridge-plunge/story-e6frfkvr-1226407134404

But actually, I believe the change you're referring to happened before that, even before Elijah was born. I remember looking for "the moment" when I read her blog too -- never found a specific point or explanation, but she did make reference at least once to feeling more aligned with the hippyish community than with the christian community, as she was making that transition.

I think she's just the kind of person who focuses really intently on certain things and is pretty oblivious to the rest, and at first her focus was religion and the rules associated with it, and now her focus is on herself and on the very lack of those rules.

ETA: Thoughtful, lol! And with all the information I would like to remember but keep forgetting anyway, why is it that Joanne Worley's name is permanently etched in my brain?

[utter solitude]

But actually, I believe the change you're referring to happened before that, even before Elijah was born. I remember looking for "the moment" when I read her blog too -- never found a specific point or explanation, but she did make reference at least once to feeling more aligned with the hippyish community than with the christian community, as she was making that transition.

I think she's just the kind of person who focuses really intently on certain things and is pretty oblivious to the rest, and at first her focus was religion and the rules associated with it, and now her focus is on herself and on the very lack of those rules.

^^^This too.There's really no specific tipping point, it seemed like more of an internal transition.

I remember there was a lot of talk about the husband having an affair(s) around 2011/2012? I'm sure that contributed.

[nausicaa]

Ok I can see how this could go. Lauren can't get into Iceland due to being too pregnant. She has the baby in Australia, and decides its the Universes way of telling her she clearly needs to keep this baby.

Someone may have already posited this theory (I am normally behind on these things) but what if Lauren sought out such a shoddily planned surrogacy knowing it wouldn't work out and she would get to keep the child?

She still gets all the accolades for being selfless and giving with her womb, yet again receives tons of attention, she cleanses her guilt for her past homophobia, and gets a couple cool trips to super-sparkly Iceland in the mix. All the while she doesn't actually have to give up her son because immigration or some other Icelandic authority intervenes and stops things. It's not Lauren's fault! She tried. Back to the bus with her new son...

[happy atheist]

I think the transition was led by David. He seems to have gotten really weird about religion (getting kicked out of church for yelling) and paranoid about world events (no more oil!), and she, being the good fundy wife, followed his lead.

They built the truck to travel around in and camp incognito and just sort of fell into the nomadic/hippie thing.

David went further and further off the rails, and she trailed in his wake. When you look back at posts from before Elijah's death, there are warning signs everywhere.

I think Lauren is just as rigid in her thinking now as she was when she was a fundy Christian. She's just changed which set of rules she's following.

[utter solitude]

Someone may have already posited this theory (I am normally behind on these things) but what if Lauren sought out such a shoddily planned surrogacy knowing it wouldn't work out and she would get to keep the child?

She still gets all the accolades for being selfless and giving with her womb, yet again receives tons of attention, she cleanses her guilt for her past homophobia, and gets a couple cool trips to super-sparkly Iceland in the mix. All the while she doesn't actually have to give up her son because immigration or some other Icelandic authority intervenes and stops things. It's not Lauren's fault! She tried. Back to the bus with her new son...

And she gets to spend the after time advocating for surrogacy, claiming her son "Should be with his fathers!" and how tragic it is it all fell through.

Genius.

[ViolaSebastian]

He seems to have gotten really weird about religion (getting kicked out of church for yelling) and paranoid about world events (no more oil!), and she, being the good fundy wife, followed his lead.

This situation perfectly illustrates the problem with the husband as headship/total authority in a marriage. For most of us, this change in behavior would be extremely alarming and warrant getting mental health professionals involved. But for Lauren, who had been inundated with the message to submit to her husband's authority, it wasn't a cause for alarm and she went along with his psychosis-induced ideas, including packing up and living an unstable nomadic lifestyle that almost certainly contributed to the worsening of David's illness and ultimately costing a baby his life.

I'd also like to say that Lauren's surrogacy story is a journalist's wet dream, especially given the intense scrutiny surrounding surrogacy, particularly international surrogacy right now. I grew up with a journalist in the family, and this has all the makings of a hell of a story, even if the surrogacy goes 100% according to plan.

[flubber]

This situation perfectly illustrates the problem with the husband as headship/total authority in a marriage. For most of us, this change in behavior would be extremely alarming and warrant getting mental health professionals involved. But for Lauren, who had been inundated with the message to submit to her husband's authority, it wasn't a cause for alarm and she went along with his psychosis-induced ideas, including packing up and living an unstable nomadic lifestyle that almost certainly contributed to the worsening of David's illness and ultimately costing a baby his life.

I'd also like to say that Lauren's surrogacy story is a journalist's wet dream, especially given the intense scrutiny surrounding surrogacy, particularly international surrogacy right now. I grew up with a journalist in the family, and this has all the makings of a hell of a story, even if the surrogacy goes 100% according to plan.

I'm not sure it was al about her following her headship. They seemed to me to have a rather equal realationship (once they left the church). Lauren seems to need to fit in, she had posts about feeling left out, friends from church not being friends with them anymore, one biazre post about how she spent all day decorating cupcakes for playgroup and no one complimented her on them... They found acceptance in the alternate community (here and in NZ) and I think that was a draw for her.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Why would it be a problem to travel to a country while pregnant?

I traveled to the United States and to Israel while visibly pregnant, and had no problems. The only issue we needed to check was with the airlines, since they don't want you to go into labor on the flight.

[flubber]

Why would it be a problem to travel to a country while pregnant?

I traveled to the United States and to Israel while visibly pregnant, and had no problems. The only issue we needed to check was with the airlines, since they don't want you to go into labor on the flight.

Spontaneous labour at 8 months? With no one to care for the girls while Lauren is in hospital. It's one thing to travel with family or to family so there is care for the girls if something goes wrong...but Lauren wants to travel around Europe with no fall back plan.

No insurance for the baby if it's born overseas - who's going to foot the medical bills if she doesn't make it to Iceland.

There's an Australian couple at the moment who had a premie while visiting the states - baby isn't covered under their insurance and they can't afford the medic flight to get the baby back to Australia and are stuck in the states. There was also one who had a similar situation recently and are/were stuck in Fiji. But no other kids were involved and they had partners there.

Who's going to look after those girls if she goes into labour prior to getting to Iceland. And how is she funding her trip (We were almost denied entry to the UK when we went for a 3 month holiday as we had no cash and couldn't prove we had funds in the bank to support ourselves). If immigration asks in any of the countries she heads to she could be stopped.

[utter solitude]

Spontaneous labour at 8 months? With no one to care for the girls while Lauren is in hospital. It's one thing to travel with family or to family so there is care for the girls if something goes wrong...but Lauren wants to travel around Europe with no fall back plan.

No insurance for the baby if it's born overseas - who's going to foot the medical bills if she doesn't make it to Iceland.

There's an Australian couple at the moment who had a premie while visiting the states - baby isn't covered under their insurance and they can't afford the medic flight to get the baby back to Australia and are stuck in the states. There was also one who had a similar situation recently and are/were stuck in Fiji. But no other kids were involved and they had partners there.

Who's going to look after those girls if she goes into labour prior to getting to Iceland. And how is she funding her trip (We were almost denied entry to the UK when we went for a 3 month holiday as we had no cash and couldn't prove we had funds in the bank to support ourselves). If immigration asks in any of the countries she heads to she could be stopped.

That's assuming they ask. It seems just as likely, if not more so, in my mind that she could go to Iceland before the birth and be just fine.

Of course, anything could happen along the way, but it doesn't seem likely she'd be questioned unless she's stupid about it. :3

[Mama Mia]

Why would it be a problem to travel to a country while pregnant?

I traveled to the United States and to Israel while visibly pregnant, and had no problems. The only issue we needed to check was with the airlines, since they don't want you to go into labor on the flight.

Yeah, I don't get what the issue would be. Visibly pregnant women fly internationally all the time. My daughter went to Europe from California when 7 months pregnant recently ( and she looked 10 months pregnant ! :D ) to a couple different countries, on stand-by even, and it wasn't an issue.

And even if, for some reason, they single her out and ask her plans, she's visiting friends and/or going to see the baby's father. Both of which are true.

[happy atheist]

Yeah, I don't get what the issue would be. Visibly pregnant women fly internationally all the time. My daughter went to Europe from California when 7 months pregnant recently ( and she looked 10 months pregnant ! :D ) to a couple different countries, on stand-by even, and it wasn't an issue.

And even if, for some reason, they single her out and ask her plans, she's visiting friends and/or going to see the baby's father. Both of which are true.

If she has return tickets, they will be for after the birth. That's kind of a huge arrow pointing to the fact that she's planning to give birth there.

[happy atheist]

Having been pregnant, and having flown internationally, I can not imagine signing up for such a long flight so late in a pregnancy. How incredibly uncomfortable.

[utter solitude]

This is a legitimate question here, assuming she has return tickets and they somehow know they're for after birth, would that actually be an issue? Like, would she be looked at in the first place, and in that depth?

[happy atheist]

If she has return tickets, she probably didn't buy one for the baby. Are you allowed to fly with a babe in arms these days?

[nausicaa]

Yeah, I don't get what the issue would be. Visibly pregnant women fly internationally all the time. My daughter went to Europe from California when 7 months pregnant recently ( and she looked 10 months pregnant ! :D ) to a couple different countries, on stand-by even, and it wasn't an issue.

And even if, for some reason, they single her out and ask her plans, she's visiting friends and/or going to see the baby's father. Both of which are true.

As I admitted, I've never traveled while pregnant (I've never ever been pregnant) and I don't know the first thing about Icelandic laws in this area, but it seems to me that admitting entrance to a country to women who appear about to give birth would pose some issues. The little research I've done, it seems that in the US it is up to the judgement of the immigration official and women have been turned back.

I realize it's different in America because of jus soli citizenship (whereas it appears that Iceland is more selective in its citizenship granting), but wouldn't there still be issues with healthcare, a potential lengthy hospital stay, and registering the birth?

Though the more I think about it, the more likely it seems that officials have been tipped off as to the illegal surrogacy situation. So even if immigration doesn't have an issue with her entrance, Icelandic law enforcement (or whomever handles situations like this) might.*

*I fully cop to having a history of making completely incorrect predictions. I've eaten crow before... :cupcake:

[So Many Lies]

Some countries are pretty wise to the fact pregnant women will try to enter a country for the birth to bypass citizenship requirements. When I was in England for example, I saw a West Indian woman turned back at the airport. Immigration officials walked right up to her in the customs line. I was stuck at customs for a long time myself for a variety of issues so I saw a bit of what went on.

[treehugger]

If she has return tickets, she probably didn't buy one for the baby. Are you allowed to fly with a babe in arms these days?

Yes. However, according to the Delta website (I am guessing it is similar for all airlines), you must purchase a ticket for an infant (even if you are travelling with the infant in arms) if you are travelling between countries.

[So Many Lies]

If she has return tickets, she probably didn't buy one for the baby. Are you allowed to fly with a babe in arms these days?

Yes but the baby still has a separate ticket. I recently flew with a a babe in arms and even though he was free and didn't have a seat he had his own ticket.

[So Many Lies]

If the baby's father is icelandic, will he not have automatic dual citizenship?