Sparkling Lauren, a super special sparkling surrogacy and a "gayby"

[Mama Mia]

I want to preface this by specifying that it's NOT an excuse to brag. I think it's relevant to the conversation.

A friend of mine recently took middle child, a 9 year old boy, to a Northern NSW music festival as company for her 9 year old daughter. They camped there for 5 days, and I was actually wondering if they would encounter Lauren, as she was in the area and it is the sort of event that would appeal to her. As it was during a school term ( I let my son have the time off, and even his teacher said he was a lucky boy to have the experience) most of the kids who were there were homeschooled or unschooled.

My friend got comments the whole time about how lovely our kids were to have around, how confident they were, and how well they involved themselves in the whole experience. They integrated BETTER than the "anything goes" hippie kids who were only used to moving among other families who lived the same way they do. And they came back to their city homes where their parents are cogs in the dreaded capitalist machine, and told their public school classes all about it. Kids can have diverse experiences without being isolated from society, and diverse experiences means experiencing more that what their special snowflake mother deems to be authentic that week.

I'd like to hope my kids would be kind to Lauren's if they encountered them, and I know they wouldn't be cruel, but I don't know if they could find common ground. Aisha needs friendships that are independent of her mother so badly at this age, but I don't know where she has any chance of finding them.

:clap: congratulations on having such a great kid!

This is what I think bugs me about Lauren's parenting the most. She is absolutely as narrow minded and controlling as the Duggar's or any fundie family, but she won't even cop to it. At least the fundamentalists will admit they only want their children to believe certain things, and expect them all to be conforming to their standards no matter what they may be like as individuals. Lauren is exactly the same with her kids-- it's just a different set of beliefs and standards that also completely ignore the kids individual personality. Instead of saying so she goes on and on about their individual choices- without seeing they are at least as narrow a range as any uptight fundie.

Of course every family on earth and every little subculture of children is going to have a somewhat limited range of what's acceptable and normal -- that's part of life whether your kid sees the world through the lens of the handling play dates, summer camp and soccer clubs or if your peer knowledge focuses more on the importance of avoiding wearing certain colors if you're a young male walking down the street, which park has the best activities to go with Summer Lunch and whose house has the best video games. Or whatever the norms are in a kids home and circle. But most families don't purposefully limit their kids range of expression so completely as Lauren and her type, or the fundamentalists we snark on. Even if they homeschool.,even if they unschool.

In most families parents will understand that some kids are going to want to join clubs or be fashion conscious or want to be an accountant when they grow up --- and that's just as valid as being a child who likes to play in the woods and make macrame and wear quirky clothing.

[lilith]

:clap: congratulations on having such a great kid!

This is what I think bugs me about Lauren's parenting the most. She is absolutely as narrow minded and controlling as the Duggar's or any fundie family, but she won't even cop to it. At least the fundamentalists will admit they only want their children to believe certain things, and expect them all to be conforming to their standards no matter what they may be like as individuals. Lauren is exactly the same with her kids-- it's just a different set of beliefs and standards that also completely ignore the kids individual personality. Instead of saying so she goes on and on about their individual choices- without seeing they are at least as narrow a range as any uptight fundie.

Of course every family on earth and every little subculture of children is going to have a somewhat limited range of what's acceptable and normal -- that's part of life whether your kid sees the world through the lens of the handling play dates, summer camp and soccer clubs or if your peer knowledge focuses more on the importance of avoiding wearing certain colors if you're a young male walking down the street, which park has the best activities to go with Summer Lunch and whose house has the best video games. Or whatever the norms are in a kids home and circle. But most families don't purposefully limit their kids range of expression so completely as Lauren and her type, or the fundamentalists we snark on. Even if they homeschool.,even if they unschool.

In most families parents will understand that some kids are going to want to join clubs or be fashion conscious or want to be an accountant when they grow up --- and that's just as valid as being a child who likes to play in the woods and make macrame and wear quirky clothing.

Yep, a firm set of rules and social expectations seems really important to Lauren, and she gravitates to the extreme of whichever creed she currently adheres to.

Thanks re the son. I'm pretty proud of how well he did in a very different environment, away from home, and for 5 days. I think it helped that my parents live locally to the festival and be knows we lived there for a year when he was a toddler, so he feels like it's "home" in a way. He definitely feels kinship to alternative lifestylers - he likes to talk about how his grandma and grandpa are hippies (but not the same type of hippies as each other!) and how that's ok and kinda cool.

[ladyaudley]

She's asking for "any unschooly, radical-thinking or off-grid types" in the UK who want to meet them while they're over on Fb. I am *so* tempted, but I don't know a) what I would say b) how to see her without having the five of them in my tiny flat for ages and c) without then giving away my FJingerite-ness.

[Cheetah]

I'm trying to figure out who all her leghumpers are and what's in it for them. Other radical unschoolers/hippies who only see the validation of their own lifestyle without the downsides for her kids? Because if she's some blog poster child for the unschooling movement, she's not making them look good.

[happy atheist]

I'm trying to figure out who all her leghumpers are and what's in it for them. Other radical unschoolers/hippies who only see the validation of their own lifestyle without the downsides for her kids? Because if she's some blog poster child for the unschooling movement, she's not making them look good.

I think it's mostly people who romanticize her situation. They think it would be awesome to travel with their kids, and they live vicariously through Lauren. In reality they're responsible working people.

Meanwhile, Ben (gayby daddy) has commented on the unschooling post (bolding mine):

25 · Ben · 22 August 2014, 20:33

Valerie, having met Lauren’s children, I was amazed at how fully formed their personalities were beyond their years. They might not have some arbitrary skillset that may or may not be used in their future career, but they will very obviously turn into compassionate, friendly, competent and confident women as adults, full of life and hungry for new experiences. I personally would much prefer my adult life to be full of others like that, than those who have passed math/science/reading curriculum who are dull, empty of energy for the world, and socially stunted from neglected parents and one-size-fits all schooling.

I was not sure about the idea of unschooling before meeting Lauren and her girls, but now that I have, I am seriously considering the idea (or elements of it) for our kids.

26 · Ben · 22 August 2014, 20:48

Sorry got cut off:

Surely my kids/grandkids are not social stunted or neglected by their parents, you will say. But it’s similar to you not being able to draw conclusions about Lauren or her kids based on a blog.

I have seen the adults that public schooling produces. That some exemplary parents manage to encourage real growth, or that some kids thrive in this atmosphere, does not make it a universal or objective truth. For every person who thrives there, there are those who’s needs are not met, are bullied, or face violence, depression, or are interested in subjects outside of the narrow curriculum (as I was) and will use nearly nothing of their studies in their adult life.

I would have loved the adults in my life to take note of my interests and not only allow me to explore them fully, but join in, lead, and encourage these. Which is exactly what I see Lauren do in real life. Those who see neglect or anything else negative, come looking for it, and see only what they have decided exists.

So Ben, who has everything invested in the crazy woman, sees the educational neglect. "Some arbitrary skillset" would be what, exactly? Reading? Math?

[alba]

I think it's mostly people who romanticize her situation. They think it would be awesome to travel with their kids, and they live vicariously through Lauren. In reality they're responsible working people.

Meanwhile, Ben (gayby daddy) has commented on the unschooling post (bolding mine):

So Ben, who has everything invested in the crazy woman, sees the educational neglect. "Some arbitrary skillset" would be what, exactly? Reading? Math?

What is it with these people and mutual exclusivity? Why can't you be able to do maths and show compassion? Or read and "hunger for new experiences"? Indeed, my ability to read and my curiosity go hand in hand, and I am so, so grateful I was introduced to it from a young age. How else would I be able to experience being a teenage wizard with a price on my head or a young woman hiding from her destiny? :lol:

Likewise, just because there are some children who thrive within a public school environment and some who do not, does not mean that all children in an unschooling environment will thrive. Seriously, there's some fundie-level logic fail going on here.

[ViolaSebastian]

Exactly my thoughts, alba. Throughout the years, I've met plenty of nice, well-adjusted, compassionate people who can also read at an adult level and balance their cheque book and do their own taxes. And you know, work to support people who choose to drive around with their eleventy kids in their hippie vans. :auto-mysterymachine:

[Mama Mia]

I'm trying to figure out who all her leghumpers are and what's in it for them. Other radical unschoolers/hippies who only see the validation of their own lifestyle without the downsides for her kids? Because if she's some blog poster child for the unschooling movement, she's not making them look good.

I've noticed in reading blogs that it doesn't seem to matter what lifestyle or philosophy the bloger is portraying -- if it's a popular blog there will be numerous posters who are just unquestioning fan girls ( or boys) . You can have normal post, normal post, normal post, post advocating eating babies, normal post --- and there will be some people saying " oh my gosh, you're the best ever! Why didn't I ever think to eat babies!"

The most popular ones, no matter their worldview - seem to do a pretty good job of mixing posts that will appeal to most people, with their over-the-top crazy ideas. Blogs that are just full of crazy are often too crazy for any but the most devoted nuts, while blogs that are just " day in my normal life" tend to get boring. Just my observation.

Kind of makes that adage about assuming one of every two people on the Internet is a potential psychopathic ax murderer, and if it's not you, it's them, even scarier. If you aren't the psychopathic ax murderer - you're living vicariously through one :D

[utter solitude]

It seems to me that a lot of her fans are the kinds of people who take her words on face value and don't look deeper into whatever she's talking about.

The type that will read, "the girls are thriving! They play math games on their own!" and be excited for that, and not look closer to realize that that is the only math stimulation they're getting, or that Lauren freely admits her girls spend nearly all day on electronic devices.

Or see that they're eating veggie patties and instantly forget the BACON mentioned earlier, and praise Lauren for her vegetarian awesomeness.

And, seriously, the bacon is okay, Lauren, but beef isn't? Don't get me wrong, bacon is fucking delicious, but why is the cow Holocaust'd but the pig isn't? Did a cow save your life and a pig piss on your teddy as a kid?

[happy atheist]

Discussion continues here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22971