Why Ken Alexander is really on FJ

[ViolaSebastian]

We have been through this many times... We believe that if one is going to swat the swat needs to carry enough of a sting to actually deliver modest pain To swat and deliver zero pain or pain so mild that the child does not mind it ... it would be best not to swat at all. A small, modest sting is all a swat should be about, and the "spank harder" was in reference to not knowing if the parent was giving enough of a sting to make the swat effective.

but we stand corrected... "spank harder" is hopefully eliminated from our vocabulary.

Here's my issue. She didn't say 'if one is going to 'swat' the 'swat' needs to carry enough of a sting to actually deliver modest pain.' She said 'spank harder'. And I, for one, am not going to take her words at something other than what what she's written. If she writes 'spank harder', the person receiving the advice is then going to put it into effect and 'spank harder', not 'give a 'swat' that carries enough of a sting to actually deliver modest pain'. The person receiving the advice can only interpret those two words ONE way, just as I can only interpret those terms ONE way. If you take away one lesson from all this, let it be the following: KEN AND LORI, WORDS HAVE MEANING.

[docmom]

I think the ones warring against Easter are the fundies. 'Cos it's really a pagan holiday and stuff. Oh, and it's fun and uplifting so a definite no-no.

To all UK FJers, if you find you have just too many Easter eggs this year, send them my way. We just don't get them here.[/quote]

NOOOOoooooo :cry: That's awful!

Saying that last year I got a giant Walnut Whip. We end up throwing them out as the child gets so many. Well the good ones get eaten. Think of your favourite chocolate bar or candy then surround it in a huge chocolate egg what is not to love? :drool:

It is awful! We do have giant Easter eggs but they're hollow and chocolate is pretty nasty tasting and there's no fillings. Have to ask the aunties to save some for me when I visit in the summer. Can't believe you threw out the Walnut Whip. I used to love those things- licking off all the whip to get the walnut at the bottom. God only knows what the "whip" is made of though.

[ladyamylynn]

Pray tell, what is the proper level of sting?

Just hard enough to get Lori excited for her 10 minutes in heaven!

[J'ean Skirt]

I do not need you to agree with me Brisky... and the last thing I need is for you to submit as the Bible teaches a women to only submit to her husband, not other men.

What I appeal to is reasonableness without mischarcterizations and lies. Is that beyond reason for you and your friends? Last I saw there is still a L.r. Al.x.nd.r is a F..k.ng M.nst.r sitting under my wife's name in a Google search. Explain the no personal attacks? It is ongoing with no one willing to stand up and say it is wrong, let's solve thing.

We've repeatedly attempted to explain to you that there is nothing we can do about the Google search results. We've provided technical links, direct information and explained we cannot change that. Your blindness is not our problem.

Plus, your wife says some horrible, evil, vile, offensive things on her blog. She advocates things that I consider monstrous. You think they're Godly, but not by the terms of the God I worship.

And I do not have time to go back and show you the myriad of lies and mischaracterizations I have exposed in 2 weeks. Hundreds... a few more today. Are you and others so blind?

The "lies and mischaracterizations" usually are based on the things you and Lori have said. We quote your words at you and you tell us that the words don't mean what they say. Your problem is you don't think words have actual meaning. Well, they do, and in a written forum you need to realize your entire reputation is based on what you write.

If you're so worried about us mischaracterizing what you're saying, perhaps you need to learn to write more appropriately for your audience. In my own life, I have different writing styles for different audiences. A very technical audience will get one type of writing, a friendly audience will get another, a hostile audience will get yet another. And it's not that what I have to say changes, but I take into account who is reading and write to and for them. I make sure that if I'm dealing with complex ideas I use terms that are understandable.

Hostile audiences are a challenge. But there are ways to interact with a hostile audience that don't make the writer look like a total asshole. But it does take some skill with words and communication to talk about controversial issues with a hostile group, especially when you don't control the forum.

To me, most of the lies and mischaracterizations that you've pointed out don't actually appear to be either lies or mischaracterizations. Instead they appear to be words you don't want to stand by. Being charitable, it may be you're just not that good a writer. That's OK, we all have our strengths. Being more realistic, you just don't like that we're actually challenging what you have to say, so you want to pretend we're misreading you.

[Loveday]

And I do not have time to go back and show you the myriad of lies and mischaracterizations I have exposed in 2 weeks. Hundreds... a few more today. Are you and others so blind?

I'll leave others to dissect the rest of this ludicrous statement, but Ken...look at the date you joined FJ. February 16th. That was well over a month ago now, not a mere two weeks.

Admit it. You're having so much fun here you've lost all track of time. 8-)

[ShesCrafty]

Last I saw there is still a L.r. Al.x.nd.r is a F..k.ng M.nst.r sitting under my wife's name in a Google search.

And there it shall remain. Curious and others have explained to you multiple time how the internet works, but you refuse to listen and continue to think that this forum has some sort of magical power over Google.

It is ongoing with no one willing to stand up

I'm totally willing to stand up

and say it is wrong,

Oh, dear, that's where we're going to have to agree to disagree. I actually don't think it's wrong (though others on the forum might). My opinion is that her blog shows that Lori Alexander is a fucking monster and your presence on this forum has shown you are much, much worse.

let's solve thing.

Again, there's nothing to solve. Curious is not a witch that can twitch her nose and make any derogatory comment about your wife disappear off Google. And I'm no computer expert, but I would guess that continuing on ad nauseam about it on this forum only makes it worse.

[dairyfreelife]

After 2-3 weeks on the FreeJinger Forum I was hoping to have come to some different conclusions. As of now my image of what is going on with this Forum is that it is not a healthy place, especially for any real disagreement.

I understand the original desire to try and investigate and perhaps even castigate conservative Christianity for its abuses, or seeming ultra-traditional values that fly in the face of feminism. Snark on its surface is harmless, but mixed with the hate filled angry profanity and mischaracterizations the Forum is quite hurtful and mean. This is acknowledge by its own disclaimers and some members who will not speak up to defend the truth for fear that they too will be castigated for their defense of their own individual values.

As an outsider that you have allowed in for a time, I appreciate the small bits of insight and legit concern I have received, but it comes at a cost of a massive amount of manure and hurtful comments. The idea that somehow because of a disclaimer that this can be a hurtful and mean place does not absolve individuals of their responsibility for tolerance and decency. As any discussion of Cyberbullying clearly points out, no matter what forum one is on, no matter what its rules, each member hiding behind their moniker is responsible for their own hateful angry, and malicious words, especially words that defame another’s good character.

The thought crosses my mind that perhaps this is just part of your game to have your prey “flounce†and show their frustration while angrily seeking the little Red X in the top corner of the browser for good. If this is just a game to many of you, so be it, but it is a very ugly game bordering on evil.

I have traveled the world working with thousands of people of different faiths, belief systems, modern and traditional values, and have friends of all walks of life including some terrific women and gay friends, but I have never seen a group that not only refuses to show at times any reasonableness in many discussions.

What scares me is not the individuals in the group because I am seeing some like salex and formergothaddite as probably good, yet misguided people, and even Koala as overall well meaning; Curious as one who at least likes a reasonable discussion. But when you put your comments together and have the cheering section chime in with their misunderstandings, profanity and speculation that becomes lies, it becomes a wicked place to try and have any real discussion.

What am I doing here? I is still not sure, but I knows much more than I did 2-3 weeks ago, and my concerns are not assuaged.

Only you all can decide what type of forum you will have, but if you desire to persecute me and my wife, and we are on the moderate side of conservative Christianity, I can imagine that your war may go deeper than what I had ever imagined. We are the balance, or middle of the road, to some of what you really are against in spanking and submission yet we get no credit for our loving and modest approach to both Biblical subjects.

Stop and look not at what you have written and said, but take the whole of what has been spewed at me and my wife the past 2-3 weeks and ask yourself if this is in any way reasonable? All we appeal to is for you to leave us alone and to stop publicly defaming us. To keep your angry hatred contained within common decency and tolerance, and within the Forum itself.

I came here, and you blasted me. I get it… it is my fault. But what propelled me to come was the danger I see within this Forum as it spills to the outside. The cauldron of anger overflows and people are getting hurt. You claim you are all about preventing abuse, yet your tactics are abusive.

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe? This is not the America I thought I would ever see and you all blame it on the Internet as your wield the Internet as your baseball bat.

Out for now… and sad that my time with you all has not been as productive as I might have liked. I have no specific agenda, just following the spirit who lives inside of me. Have a fun weekend.

Can you please point out how we are defaming you or mischaracterizing you on here. And no, I'm not snarking. I am very serious because all I have seen is people quoting your own words or your wife's own writing and commenting on them. Maybe we misunderstood what you were trying to tell us at times, but that's not the same as defamation.

I have read through all theses threads and I don't see a cauldron of anger here. What I see is a lot of hostility on Ken's part toward women and he never did address my question about that either, which leads me to believe that he does blame women for issues in society. From Ken and Lori's own words, they come across as angry and bitter and a couple who have a lot of issues with their relationship in the past and now only work because control was given to one person which stopped any disagreements from occurring cause Ken became boss. What I see is a couple who was and is wealthy and privileged, especially Lori, and who struggles to understand that they're a minority when it comes to wealth in this country. What I see is two people who have manipulated each other at times to get what they wanted. I see a father who wasn't around much when the children were growing up and his wife was overwhelmed and ill and luckily had the privilege of hiring a nanny to help her with the four children since he was working or playing basketball most of the time. I see parents afraid of having overweight daughters because men want thin women and it's important they keep good appearance. I see two people who think they are older and therefore have lots of wisdom, but in truth know very little and one who admits to not being educated and not understanding larger' vocabulary, not to mention that the advice is very simple and one size fits all and neither of them is certified to counsel anyone.

Counseling others comes with a huge responsibility and I see a couple who wants to call themselves a counselor/a teacher, but who wants to be absolved of any of the responsibility of the advice they dispense. I see a couple who ignores counseling rules of privacy and non-disclosure, openly talking about supposed couples they counseled. Regardless of the fact that names are not shared, counseling sessions should not be discussed with other people unless it's for safety reasons such as giving the information to law enforcement with threats that the person is going to harm themselves or other people. You do not disclose that information to anyone. Not even your own spouse if it was told to you in a counseling session. All that is private and meant to confidential. People they counsel should sign be signing forms of non-disclosure. Before I went to counseling I had to sign several forms just like that. It's for both the counselor's safety and the safety of the person being counseled.

Yes, Ken and Lori can come here and say I am mischaracterizing them and blah, blah, blah, but all I am saying is what I take from their own posts on their blog, comments they've written on their blog and other's blogs, and what Ken has said here. I don't know them outside of their blogs and posts here, but that's exactly how they have come across to me.

Their blog is public. I live 1000s of miles from them in the US, in a state they may not even know exists because believe me, a number of people don't know we exist, and I can read your blog. We have people here from across the pond living in various other countries like the Netherlands, England, Scotland and Germany, just to name a few. They can all read your blog. People all over the world can read your wife's blog. They can read all the words you write here. And believe me, most are not going to agree with your writing or her writing and may just tell you so. I have a blog myself, so I'm aware of what I post. People may disagree with me and that's their right. However, there's not exactly anything dangerous or controversial on there, so I'm not on a snark site that I know about. I'm rather boring and don't post very much. :lol:

Regardless, I just don't see the lies we are saying about you. I haven't read any outward lies about you or Lori unless I missed something.

And this post was longer than I thought it would be...back to doing work on my spring break.

[feministxtian]

Ken...my husband is MORE of a man than you'll ever be and he's a slender, non-confrontational, disabled man. No, he can't work at an outside job. So, he takes care of the house so I can go to work. He would NEVER think of attempting to force me into sex, submission or anything else. He has NEVER EVER hit a child. NEVER.

You, sir, suffer from little dick syndrome. You are SO unsure of your maleness that you feel the need to beat your chest and roar "I am man". I've read your wife's blog and all I can say is you two deserve each other. You're both fucking nuts.

[cindyluvs24]

Ken, its obvious you will never agree with the points of view on this site, and the posters here will never agree with what you and your wife post on yours (hers?) so here's what I propose. Stop reading. Stop posting. You're just going to upset yourself and feel oppressed. You will not change anyone's mind here. You are not convincing anyone of anything other than to reinforce their own opinions of you and what you stand for. Also, you're up against women lawyers, judges and other professionals who think logically and write critically for a living and have for quite some time.

See, that's the beauty of America and free speech. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Now of course you know that writing one's opinion on a public blog means that from time to time, the author will have his or her views criticized. That's also OK. You're not giving away pieces of your psyche. Your lifespan will not be shortened. There is no danger. You will not come down with a communicable disease. You may feel, based upon your personal religious beliefs that other people's souls are in danger but that's your belief. Its a big world. Lots of different people, lots of different beliefs. There's room for us all. (Seriously, just go away.)

[Ms Jess]

I'll leave others to dissect the rest of this ludicrous statement, but Ken...look at the date you joined FJ. February 16th. That was well over a month ago now, not a mere two weeks.

Admit it. You're having so much fun here you've lost all track of time. 8-)

Psh. I've been here for about 9 months (I think) and I think Ken Alexander is a monster has twice as many posts as do I. Let's see ... :clicks submit:

Edited to say -- almost. Almost twice as many. :wink-kitty:

[ViolaSebastian]

Counseling others comes with a huge responsibility and I see a couple who wants to call themselves a counselor/a teacher, but who wants to be absolved of any of the responsibility of the advice they dispense. I see a couple who ignores counseling rules of privacy and non-disclosure, openly talking about supposed couples they counseled. Regardless of the fact that names are not shared, counseling sessions should not be discussed with other people unless it's for safety reasons such as giving the information to law enforcement with threats that the person is going to harm themselves or other people. You do not disclose that information to anyone. Not even your own spouse if it was told to you in a counseling session. All that is private and meant to confidential. People they counsel should sign be signing forms of non-disclosure. Before I went to counseling I had to sign several forms just like that. It's for both the counselor's safety and the safety of the person being counseled.

Thank you for this paragraph in particular, Dairyfreelife. It takes many, many years of education to become a professional counselor. The lowest form of education one can have and be certified for counseling in the United States is a master's degree of social work, and most counselors/therapists that I run into have a Ph.D and are invested in continuing education. That means that in the United States, most counselors/therapists have received at minimum six to eleven years of education in mental health, child development, psychology, sexual health and issues, pain management, substance abuse, how to respond to and take appropriate action to physical/emotional/verbal/sexual abuse, eating disorders, marriage issues, communication, disciplining children--this list could go on and on--all things in which Lori Alexander, with her zero years of education in counseling/therapy/social work/psychology feels imminently qualified to give advice. Because she's read the Bible.

I know it's been said, but it bears repeating. It is extremely dangerous to give out advice on these issues when one is completely unqualified in these matters.

[BalconySmoker]

Good grief, Ken is such a pissy little baby. Just be thankful that nobody here is posting about you and your monster bride on Reddit Or 4Chan. You think we're big meanies? The real internet trolls would completely tear you apart emotionally, and probably ruin your career. In addition to doxxing all of your kids and closest friends.

Yet here the FJ folk are, letting you in OUR space to hang out, read and have a discussion with.

The men and women on freejinger are being uncharacteristically kind to you for an online message board. The kind of "bullying" you are getting here looks like a damn tea party to the rest of the internet.

Ken really has no idea how the internet works.

What's more, he doesn't seem to understand how direct quotes work. Because that's exactly what all of our "mischaracterizations" have been; direct quotes of his or his wife's words.

[latraviata]

Thank you for this paragraph in particular, Dairyfreelife. It takes many, many years of education to become a professional counselor. The lowest form of education one can have and be certified for counseling in the United States is a master's degree of social work, and most counselors/therapists that I run into have a Ph.D and are invested in continuing education. That means that in the United States, most counselors/therapists have received at minimum six to eleven years of education in mental health, child development, psychology, sexual health and issues, pain management, substance abuse, how to respond to and take appropriate action to physical/emotional/verbal/sexual abuse, eating disorders, marriage issues, communication, disciplining children--this list could go on and on--all things in which Lori Alexander, with her zero years of education in counseling/therapy/social work/psychology feels imminently qualified to give advice. Because she's read the Bible.

I know it's been said, but it bears repeating. It is extremely dangerous to give out advice on these issues when one is completely unqualified in these matters.

Same here. I wouldn't dream of randomly giving advice or counseling on the internet and god knows I am more than qualified.

[Micah]

Trying the "self-soothing" approach has huge merits as seen in some studies, especially in the fact that such babies often have much happier and psychologically rested parents. When a parent chases a child's every cry they put themselves on a schedule that is impossible. Many babies may cry for no apparent reason even when being held or fed. Colic is common in babies and a mother holding a Colicky baby hours on end while they cry will severely impact the sanity of the parent(s) and not allow her the ability to properly care for her other children.

Okay just for a start, there is a MULTITUDE of studies that suggest that CIO can have a severe effect on the mental health of a child. It damages the mother child bond and can create a thing called 'learned helplessness'. BABIES DO NOT CRY FOR NO REASON. THEY CRY BECAUSE THEY ARE LITTLE AND HELPLESS AND THE WORLD IS A BIG SCARY PLACE. THE ONLY ONE IN THEIR COURT IS THEIR MUMMY AND WHEN THEY CRY AND CRY AND MUMMY DOESN'T COME, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT TEACHES KEN?

And as to the bolded......COLIC HURTS! Colicy babies cry because THEY ARE IN PAIN! Are you seriously telling people to dump a colicy baby in a crib and just let it cry?!?!?! Out of all the disgusting things you've said I think this is one of the worst. Possibly my judgement is clouded by having HAD a colicy baby. For the first YEAR of his life he didn't sleep more than half an hour at a time. I'd sit up at three am watching infomercials, bouncing him on his tummy in a fit ball because that was the only way to relieve the PAIN. Yes I was a sleep deprived mess, but that's part of being a parent. If your BABY needs something you do everything in your power to help. When your baby is writhing and screaming in agony with a constant belly ache, the normal parental instinct should be to TRY AND MAKE IT BETTER. Not go "oh, well. Here's your crib, howl yourself to sleep, Mummy's needs come first!" YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!

[latraviata]

Okay just for a start, there is a MULTITUDE of studies that suggest that CIO can have a severe effect on the mental health of a child. It damages the mother child bond and can create a thing called 'learned helplessness'. BABIES DO NOT CRY FOR NO REASON. THEY CRY BECAUSE THEY ARE LITTLE AND HELPLESS AND THE WORLD IS A BIG SCARY PLACE. THE ONLY ONE IN THEIR COURT IS THEIR MUMMY AND WHEN THEY CRY AND CRY AND MUMMY DOESN'T COME, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT TEACHES KEN?

And as to the bolded......COLIC HURTS! Colicy babies cry because THEY ARE IN PAIN! Are you seriously telling people to dump a colicy baby in a crib and just let it cry?!?!?! Out of all the disgusting things you've said I think this is one of the worst. Possibly my judgement is clouded by having HAD a colicy baby. For the first YEAR of his life he didn't sleep more than half an hour at a time. I'd sit up at three am watching infomercials, bouncing him on his tummy in a fit ball because that was the only way to relieve the PAIN. Yes I was a sleep deprived mess, but that's part of being a parent. If your BABY needs something you do everything in your power to help. When your baby is writhing and screaming in agony with a constant belly ache, the normal parental instinct should be to TRY AND MAKE IT BETTER. Not go "oh, well. Here's your crib, howl yourself to sleep, Mummy's needs come first!" YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!

As a child (developmental) pschychologist I agree with every word you say!!

Unfortunately as far as Ken and Lori are concerned: Casting Pearls Before the Swine, Matthew 6:7. Not bad for an atheist, isn't it??

[ViolaSebastian]

I have a question for our FJ legal eagles out there. Let's say, God forbid, that the woman to whom Lori gave the advice 'spank harder' did precisely that and inflicted a severe beating--sorry, a severe spanking--that resulted in the child being killed. Could Lori potentially face charges in such an instance, a la the Pearls?

[formergothardite]

"and formergothaddite as probably good, yet misguided people"

Can I get informed why I am misguided?

Ken, it took years to even begin to get over the crap that was shoved on me by Bill Gothard and the fundamental Christian belief that women should be submissive. Years. I don't think I will ever really be able to really get over all of it. But Free Jinger has been a very healing place for me. Seeing the beliefs that have messed my life up so much mocked and made fun of and picked apart piece by piece has been so healing.

[formergothardite]

Wait...there is a war on Easter now, too? I'm still behind on my War on Christmas duties and now there are Easter ones? I missed a memo somewhere :(

I can't tell if eating a chocolate cross would be attacking Easter or supporting it. It just seems like giving my kids a chocolate cross to eat would be sacrilegious.

In my mind Childless' baby is about 8 months old. I'm not sure how time fast forwarded to 3.5 years.

[mirele]

What I appeal to is reasonableness without mischarcterizations and lies. Is that beyond reason for you and your friends? Last I saw there is still a L.r. Al.x.nd.r is a F..k.ng M.nst.r sitting under my wife's name in a Google search. Explain the no personal attacks? It is ongoing with no one willing to stand up and say it is wrong, let's solve thing.

Ken, you're a whiner, plain and simple. :violin:

The first hit for my legal name is a website where I'm called a religious bigot (among other things) by the "church" of Scientology. That's because I've been vocal about the behaviors of that evil organization. And it's been up the better part of 15 years. You know, I've managed to work through it. Today, I look prescient because I was opposed to Scientology back when nobody knew what an awful organization it is.

This is the deal: I knew even back in the 1990s that expressing my opinion could bring me trouble. If I can figure this out, perhaps you and L.r. Al.xnd.r can do so as well. You've said some really obnoxious and troubling things. You've advocated behaviors towards children (spanking) that if you did them to adults, would be considered assault and battery. You put this advice up in public--the Internet. Moreover, you put yourselves forward as experts of a sort. OF COURSE people are going to take you to task if they disagree! That's what happens! What, did you think people were going to sit idly by while you tell moms to switch their kids harder and wives to stay with abusive husbands? *shakes head*

Ken, there's a solution to your problem. Take down L.r.'s blog, and keep your opinions to yourself. After a while, the stuff will disappear out of the Google cache and you won't have any more problems. But as long as you're pushing your "expertise" *snort*, you're going to get pushback from the likes of us who know what it's like to get whipped within an inch of our lives by our parents and/or physically abused by our spouses.

[polecat]

Okay just for a start, there is a MULTITUDE of studies that suggest that CIO can have a severe effect on the mental health of a child. It damages the mother child bond and can create a thing called 'learned helplessness'. BABIES DO NOT CRY FOR NO REASON. THEY CRY BECAUSE THEY ARE LITTLE AND HELPLESS AND THE WORLD IS A BIG SCARY PLACE. THE ONLY ONE IN THEIR COURT IS THEIR MUMMY AND WHEN THEY CRY AND CRY AND MUMMY DOESN'T COME, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT TEACHES KEN?

And as to the bolded......COLIC HURTS! Colicy babies cry because THEY ARE IN PAIN! Are you seriously telling people to dump a colicy baby in a crib and just let it cry?!?!?! Out of all the disgusting things you've said I think this is one of the worst. Possibly my judgement is clouded by having HAD a colicy baby. For the first YEAR of his life he didn't sleep more than half an hour at a time. I'd sit up at three am watching infomercials, bouncing him on his tummy in a fit ball because that was the only way to relieve the PAIN. Yes I was a sleep deprived mess, but that's part of being a parent. If your BABY needs something you do everything in your power to help. When your baby is writhing and screaming in agony with a constant belly ache, the normal parental instinct should be to TRY AND MAKE IT BETTER. Not go "oh, well. Here's your crib, howl yourself to sleep, Mummy's needs come first!" YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!

This brings back so many memories. My oldest had colic. My husband would get up and hold him face down over his arm. He got so good at this colic hold that he could even play video games while doing it, lol. I cut so many things out of my diet thinking that it was my fault, but nothing ever really helped him. What definitely would not have helped him was leaving him alone to cry.

Each of my kids were frequent wakers. I did have people telling me to let them cry, but it went against every instinct in me. I'm glad I ignored those people and followed my instincts. I comforted my kids when they cried. Fed them when they were hungry. Changed them when they were dirty. And loved them when they were lonely. No regrets. And they all sleep just fine today.

[Koala]

Here's my issue. She didn't say 'if one is going to 'swat' the 'swat' needs to carry enough of a sting to actually deliver modest pain.' She said 'spank harder'. And I, for one, am not going to take her words at something other than what what she's written. If she writes 'spank harder', the person receiving the advice is then going to put it into effect and 'spank harder', not 'give a 'swat' that carries enough of a sting to actually deliver modest pain'. The person receiving the advice can only interpret those two words ONE way, just as I can only interpret those terms ONE way. If you take away one lesson from all this, let it be the following: KEN AND LORI, WORDS HAVE MEANING.

Ken Alexander, the following comment was left on your wife's blog:

Brit, I almost didn't reply, I wanted to but didn't know what to say.....so I just prayed for you & THEN God seemed to tell me what to say; My eighth child who is nearly 14 now, is extremely mentally disabled. My first seven children seemed extremely EASY to care for compared to Joshua, who is still nonverbal. The biggest trial for me was that Joshua didn't get fully potty trained until he was about 12 years old. The absolute worst behavior for me to deal with was he got into his poopy diaper a lot & made unbelievable messes! I decided that I would apply the spanking method for that behavior & would increase the pain level until it WORKED! Well, I was the one who broke because somewhere along the way, I knew I had crossed the line with my anger & I could NOT SPANK for that behavior any longer. I began to sew Joshua's tee shirts to his pants & made a back opening that he couldn't reach into. Many disabled people need adaptive clothing for this compulsive behavior but I didn't know that then. He did eventually outgrow the behavior but not until he was about 10 or 11 & we began having some success at potty training. This is part of my testimony & I know it will help you. Yes, as Laura also suggests, pray fervently & God WILL GUIDE you. Sometimes,it seems God is more interested in teaching us patience & love & perseverance through trials with our children. Also, I realize Joshua is a HUGE blessing now! God has taught me so much through the hard things! Love & prayers, in Jesus, Cynthia

Lori deleted one comment in response to this- a very polite one asking the mother where on earth she got the idea to spank a mentally disabled child. That's all she said.

[salex]

To me, most of the lies and mischaracterizations that you've pointed out don't actually appear to be either lies or mischaracterizations. Instead they appear to be words you don't want to stand by. Being charitable, it may be you're just not that good a writer. That's OK, we all have our strengths. Being more realistic, you just don't like that we're actually challenging what you have to say, so you want to pretend we're misreading you.

This. I have not seen Ken "prove" or even come up with any lies or mischaracterizations of him or Lori. People have made a point to quote, in context Ken and Lori's words, then confront them on their ideas. I have yet to see any proof of any lies or mischaracterizations about them or their stances.

[RosyDaisy]

Again, there's nothing to solve. Curious is not a witch that can twitch her nose and make any derogatory comment about your wife disappear off Google. And I'm no computer expert, but I would guess that continuing on ad nauseam about it on this forum only makes it worse.

It does. Lori and Ken totally deserve that kind of attention. Lori and Ken Alexander are fucking monsters!

[ILoveJellybeans]

Trying the "self-soothing" approach has huge merits as seen in some studies, especially in the fact that such babies often have much happier and psychologically rested parents. When a parent chases a child's every cry they put themselves on a schedule that is impossible. Many babies may cry for no apparent reason even when being held or fed. Colic is common in babies and a mother holding a Colicky baby hours on end while they cry will severely impact the sanity of the parent(s) and not allow her the ability to properly care for her other children.

Yes, dealing with a colicky baby for hours on end will impact the sanity of the parent. Doesn't mean that you can leave the baby to cry on their own while you sleep. Sure, putting them down somewhere safe for five minutes while you take a bit of a break is okay, especially when youre on your own and don't have another person to hold the baby for a bit while you have a rest, but leaving them alone for too much longer is not going to teach them to self soothe-theyre in pain. Its going to teach them that their parents don't care.

[polecat]

This. I have not seen Ken "prove" or even come up with any lies or mischaracterizations of him or Lori. People have made a point to quote, in context Ken and Lori's words, then confront them on their ideas. I have yet to see any proof of any lies or mischaracterizations about them or their stances.

There's no NEED to mischaracterize what either of them say. It's right there on their blog and in this forum for everyone to easily see and read. No one has to twist his words to imply that he promotes hurting 5 month old babies because HE said it in a blog post about why it's important to flick babies in the face when they are nursing.

As an *extremely* experienced former nursing mother (trust me -- way more nursing experience than Mrs. A), I can promise that you can teach a baby to not bite in an shockingly short period of time without ever hurting him or her.