Why Ken Alexander is really on FJ

[Micah]

This brings back so many memories. My oldest had colic. My husband would get up and hold him face down over his arm. He got so good at this colic hold that he could even play video games while doing it, lol. I cut so many things out of my diet thinking that it was my fault, but nothing ever really helped him. What definitely would not have helped him was leaving him alone to cry.

Each of my kids were frequent wakers. I did have people telling me to let them cry, but it went against every instinct in me. I'm glad I ignored those people and followed my instincts. I comforted my kids when they cried. Fed them when they were hungry. Changed them when they were dirty. And loved them when they were lonely. No regrets. And they all sleep just fine today.

Same here. :) I wish the 'colic hold' had worked on my son. I might have been able to get stuff done with one arm. The only thing that helped him was to lay him on his tummy on the fit ball and gently bounce.

[Koala]

From Lori Alexander's public facebook:

“Sometimes, when I see a girl provocatively dressed, I'll say to myself, ‘She probably doesn’t even know that a hundred and one guys are going to devour her in their minds today’. But then again…maybe she does.†{said in a video CJ Mahaney on "What Guys Think About Modesty"}

:lol:

Whenever I see a wife with her head stuck so far up her own ass that she doesn't seem to notice that her husband is on her blog telling young women how pretty they are and how he'd like to see them wear their hair, and on another forum talking about sex with a group of strange women, I'll say to myself, 'she probably doesn't even know what a philandering pervert he is. But then again....maybe she does.'

[ViolaSebastian]

Who knows, they could BOTH be getting their jollies by reading all this! :lol:

[Koala]

Who knows, they could BOTH be getting their jollies by reading all this! :lol:

Nah, pain and domination is Lori's thing. That's why she likes SSM so much. Who else is she going to joke about Ken spanking her with. The women on her blog would be :? at her if she did that. Not SSM though...you know she does "sex training for previous whores" (to use Ken's exact words).

[treemom]

Oh the persecution of being made fun of on the Internet.

[FJSharkJump]

Nah, pain and domination is Lori's thing. That's why she likes SSM so much. Who else is she going to joke about Ken spanking her with. The women on her blog would be :? at her if she did that. Not SSM though...you know she does "sex training for previous whores" (to use Ken's exact words).

I'm just starting to catch up on the Lori and Ken Alexander are Monsters. I must know the context for "sex training for previous whores". It sounds so ridiculous and awful I can't help but laugh.

[ViolaSebastian]

For the record, your lie about us spanking our babies for for hours is very offensive. We NEVER spanked a child until they were much older and NEVER spanked for not sleeping and NEVER spanked more than 5-10 seconds at a time. And no in four hours the child might have been spanked a total of 60 seconds and this might have happened once in their lifetime anything more than the modest 5-10 seconds of swats.

So 'much older' than a baby, as in a toddler? As in the story about one of your daughters, who, at 18 months old, refused to pick up her raisins and whom you and Lori spent four hours disciplining, during which time you hit her with a leather strap? An 18 month old child doesn't possess the cognitive abilities to understand right from wrong or the consequences for his/her actions. An 18 month old is just beginning to be able to recognize herself in the mirror and only speaks about a dozen words. Heck, she's just barely beginning to comprehend that a toy doesn't disappear off the face of the earth when you hide it under a blanket, for goodness sake.

ETA: I was looking at Lori's page and came across this in a post Ken wrote about spanking: "We personally do not advocate any spanking of kids under the age of 12 months, but I had no problem having Lori flick the cheek of our child to train them not to bite her as she was nursing." I'm curious, Ken, please enlighten me on this. What developmental milestone does a child reach at 12 months that makes you feel as though spankings are an appropriate disciplinary tool? In other words, what makes it okay at 12 months and not at 11 months?

ETA II: I found this comment that I found extremely disturbing regarding Michael Pearl's story in 'To Train Up a Child' of a five (some versions of the book say four) month old child being 'twigged' (that is, hit with a twig about 1/8th of an inch thick) when she attempted to crawl up the stairs. He replied to a comment that suggested that the scriptures said nothing about smacking babies. (Children, yes, but babies, no.) "We agree and the question to a parent is how and when to train that child so that he/she learns and grows into a responsible adult. Has it crossed your mind that this five month old who was twigged was considered old enough and aware enough to learn not to crawl up the stairs?

That the child actually learned not to crawl up the stairs?

That this child became a healthy adult with zero issues related to the training she received and completely supports what her parents did to train her?

Do not any of these realities lead you to believe that even though you and your five month old are not desirous of such training, this does not make it wrong for the Pearls, or others who desire to train their baby/child in this way?

Ken Alexander: It's not wrong to hit a four/five month old baby with a twig.

Side note: I'd love to hear from our resident developmental psychologist, the brilliant latraviata, on whether or not a four/five month old baby is old enough to learn not to crawl up the stairs.

[Earthshine]

So 'much older' than a baby, as in a toddler? As in the story about one of your daughters, who, at 18 months old, refused to pick up her raisins and whom you and Lori spent four hours disciplining, during which time you hit her with a leather strap? An 18 month old child doesn't possess the cognitive abilities to understand right from wrong or the consequences for his/her actions. An 18 month old is just beginning to be able to recognize herself in the mirror and only speaks about a dozen words. Heck, she's just barely beginning to comprehend that a toy doesn't disappear off the face of the earth when you hide it under a blanket, for goodness sake.

Good grief...these people need serious psychiatric help. They have no business mentoring or counseling anyone. They are sick.

[SunnyAndrsn]

Okay just for a start, there is a MULTITUDE of studies that suggest that CIO can have a severe effect on the mental health of a child. It damages the mother child bond and can create a thing called 'learned helplessness'. BABIES DO NOT CRY FOR NO REASON. THEY CRY BECAUSE THEY ARE LITTLE AND HELPLESS AND THE WORLD IS A BIG SCARY PLACE. THE ONLY ONE IN THEIR COURT IS THEIR MUMMY AND WHEN THEY CRY AND CRY AND MUMMY DOESN'T COME, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT TEACHES KEN?

And as to the bolded......COLIC HURTS! Colicy babies cry because THEY ARE IN PAIN! Are you seriously telling people to dump a colicy baby in a crib and just let it cry?!?!?! Out of all the disgusting things you've said I think this is one of the worst. Possibly my judgement is clouded by having HAD a colicy baby. For the first YEAR of his life he didn't sleep more than half an hour at a time. I'd sit up at three am watching infomercials, bouncing him on his tummy in a fit ball because that was the only way to relieve the PAIN. Yes I was a sleep deprived mess, but that's part of being a parent. If your BABY needs something you do everything in your power to help. When your baby is writhing and screaming in agony with a constant belly ache, the normal parental instinct should be to TRY AND MAKE IT BETTER. Not go "oh, well. Here's your crib, howl yourself to sleep, Mummy's needs come first!" YOU SHOULD NEVER HAVE HAD KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!

"some studies" are wrong. I discussed this issue with my spouse, who is a child psychologist, sharing that there are people like Ken and Lori who are STILL advocating CIO at a young age. He was appalled, and frustrated that this bad advice is still being given out, and as usual, by people unqualified to give it.

This is why my husband will never be out of a job.

[FJSharkJump]

Thanks koala!

It is as awful and ridiculous as I thought. And I even enjoy some light BDSM, too. Was never even a whore before either.

Holy shit! Can none of these people ever be honest? Isn't lying in violation of one of The Commandments? SSM just can't tell the truth and admit that role playing dominance/submission and spanking in the bedroom actually IS BDSM. I suppose the B for Bondage isn't present, although a case could be made that psychological bondage is in play. But the rest is all there: D=Discipline and Dominance, S= Submission and Sadism, M = Masochism.

And Ken cannot admit that SSM was very obviously advising the godly wives who read her blog to try out this oh-no-not-that-nasty-horrible-ungodly-BDSM-at-all spanking foreplay with their quite-possibly-reluctant husbands. (Nope, no topping from the bottom here. :lol: Dominate me! It's the godly thing to do!) SSM never even mentioned reformed prostitutes in that post. To my knowledge, it's not even implied in any of her blog posts that prostitutes are a known part of her readership. How Ken made such a leap is utterly insane. Unless Ken believes all the wives who are Pro-Christian-Patriarchy-Marriage that are SSM's intended audience are former whores. Is that what you believe, Ken? All those godly wives in biblical marriages were once whores and they now need some solid oh-no-definitely-not-BDSM sex training? If so, since Lori is obviously a fan of SSM, you would apply such an assumption to your own wife, too, right? Are you trying to tell us that you believe that Lori was once a whore? As far as I can see, that's the implication of your ridiculous statement. As others have told you, Ken. Words have meaning, both explicit and implied. Say what you mean and mean what you say. And, above all, stop lying!

As I said in a previous post, I'm just catching up on these assholes. But I think it's safe to say that Ken and Lori will not tell the truth and admit that when they practice their own version of Bedroom Patriarchy, they are engaging in BDSM. You have a Dom and a sub during foreplay and sex? Yup, BDSM. You have someone inflicting pain/discipline and someone willingly accepting pain/discipline during foreplay and sex? Yup, BDSM. You have someone restraining and someone being restrained during foreplay and sex? Yup, BDSM. It's not different or special just cause you call yourselves Christians while you do it. (And, by the way, if both partners are not wholly willing participants: That's. Called. Rape. Safe words. Use them and respect them.)

Follow the commandments you say you believe and tell the damn truth. And leave former whores out of it.

[FJSharkJump]

deleted because I messed the quotes up

Could you try again? Cause now my post has no context. :lol:

[latraviata]

So 'much older' than a baby, as in a toddler? As in the story about one of your daughters, who, at 18 months old, refused to pick up her raisins and whom you and Lori spent four hours disciplining, during which time you hit her with a leather strap? An 18 month old child doesn't possess the cognitive abilities to understand right from wrong or the consequences for his/her actions. An 18 month old is just beginning to be able to recognize herself in the mirror and only speaks about a dozen words. Heck, she's just barely beginning to comprehend that a toy doesn't disappear off the face of the earth when you hide it under a blanket, for goodness sake.

ETA: I was looking at Lori's page and came across this in a post Ken wrote about spanking: "We personally do not advocate any spanking of kids under the age of 12 months, but I had no problem having Lori flick the cheek of our child to train them not to bite her as she was nursing." I'm curious, Ken, please enlighten me on this. What developmental milestone does a child reach at 12 months that makes you feel as though spankings are an appropriate disciplinary tool? In other words, what makes it okay at 12 months and not at 11 months?

ETA II: I found this comment that I found extremely disturbing regarding Michael Pearl's story in 'To Train Up a Child' of a five (some versions of the book say four) month old child being 'twigged' (that is, hit with a twig about 1/8th of an inch thick) when she attempted to crawl up the stairs. He replied to a comment that suggested that the scriptures said nothing about smacking babies. (Children, yes, but babies, no.) "We agree and the question to a parent is how and when to train that child so that he/she learns and grows into a responsible adult. Has it crossed your mind that this five month old who was twigged was considered old enough and aware enough to learn not to crawl up the stairs?

That the child actually learned not to crawl up the stairs?

That this child became a healthy adult with zero issues related to the training she received and completely supports what her parents did to train her?

Do not any of these realities lead you to believe that even though you and your five month old are not desirous of such training, this does not make it wrong for the Pearls, or others who desire to train their baby/child in this way?

Ken Alexander: It's not wrong to hit a four/five month old baby with a twig.

Side note: I'd love to hear from our resident developmental psychologist, the brilliant latraviata, on whether or not a four/five month old baby is old enough to learn not to crawl up the stairs.

No they are not. The only thing they learn/instill is fear when you use a twig to teach them. Punishment might be used for wrongdoing and a baby has no comprehension at all of what he is doing wrong. Baby's job is to explore, that's not something to be punished but encouraged. A parent should watch over the safety of a baby. So buy a baby gate and put it in front of the stairs. Or just pick the baby up when it crawls up the stairs and bring it to safety. Finding your baby crawling up the stairs is rather questionable in itself, because one should never let a crawling baby out of sight. Does a 5 month old baby actually crawl? It seems very young they usually start between 7 and 10 month.

As a last resort don't use a twig but a leather strap or a horsewhip, very effective and they are never too young for that. Crawling up the stairs is a mortal sin, for a 5 month old that is.

[ViolaSebastian]

As a last resort don't use a twig but a leather strap or a horsewhip, very effective and they are never too young for that. Crawling up the stairs is a mortal sin, for a 5 month old that is.

Oh goodness yes, have to quash those seeds of rebellion from the start. :roll:

[latraviata]

"some studies" are wrong. I discussed this issue with my spouse, who is a child psychologist, sharing that there are people like Ken and Lori who are STILL advocating CIO at a young age. He was appalled, and frustrated that this bad advice is still being given out, and as usual, by people unqualified to give it.

I am as appalled and frustrated as your husband is, as every decent parent with common sense. It really doesn't take a Master's degree and two PhDs.

What is the most frustrating for your husband and I is, the fact that years and years of intense research and study is swept from the table, because they pretend to know better than the 'so called' experts.

However the experts have seen the devastating effects of these child rearing methods. I had to deal with cases (as a court expert witness) I can't even talk about to this very day.

The same applies my oldest son aka Cuteneurorad, who as a radiologist has seen the X rays and brain scans of abused children.

Ken and Lori Alexander advocating this type of child rearing is a disgrace. In my country, the secular, liberal perverted Netherlands, they would have been prosecuted.

[Loveday]

No they are not. The only thing they learn/instill is fear when you use a twig to teach them. Punishment might be used for wrongdoing and a baby has no comprehension at all of what he is doing wrong. Baby's job is to explore, that's not something to be punished but encouraged. A parent should watch over the safety of a baby. So buy a baby gate and put it in front of the stairs. Or just pick the baby up when it crawls up the stairs and bring it to safety. Finding your baby crawling up the stairs is rather questionable in itself, because one should never let a crawling baby out of sight. Does a 5 month old baby actually crawl? It seems very young they usually start between 7 and 10 month.

As a last resort don't use a twig but a leather strap or a horsewhip, very effective and they are never too young for that. Crawling up the stairs is a mortal sin, for a 5 month old that is.

I've been questioning this in my mind ever since the subject first came up here. I'm sure there might be a very rare baby who can attempt to crawl a little bit at five months, but I've never met one who was remotely ready to crawl that early, much less crawl up a flight of stairs, including my own two. I mean, my son took his first steps the day he turned nine months old, which is a little early but not earth-shatteringly so, but at five months he was only just starting to sit up without toppling over! :lol:

[Koala]

Ken wrote:

For the record, your lie about us spanking our babies for for hours is very offensive. We NEVER spanked a child until they were much older and NEVER spanked for not sleeping and NEVER spanked more than 5-10 seconds at a time. And no in four hours the child might have been spanked a total of 60 seconds and this might have happened once in their lifetime anything more than the modest 5-10 seconds of swats.

I'll tell you what we'll do Ken. I am just going to sit here and quote Lori directly, and then we'll let people decide for themselves what kind of mother monster she is.

Now keep in mind, these are all direct quotes from Lori Alexander ( <---- the name she uses on her very public blog)

We didn't have to resort to charts, bedtime routines, stickers, or time outs. We spanked them if they didn't obey us!

A spanking will work if it is hard enough. We used a small leather strap on their behind and it hurt!

When our babies began crawling and wanted to put their fingers in a light socket, we would slap their hand and say "no!"

We trained our children as soon as they could crawl. We didn't want to have to continually be chasing after them making sure they weren't sticking things in light sockets or climbing stairs. A few smacks on the hand and we never had to worry about it. Babies are very smart and can be trained very early. If they were wiggling around while we were trying to change their diaper, we would give them a little smack on the bottom and they would stop. If they bit me when they were nursing, a little flick on the cheek and they never bit me again. A little pain worked great for us!

according to these verses, if you truly love your child, you will use a rod on them...

We trained our four children to sleep through the night when they were six weeks old.

I would have rather not had children if they grew up to be rebellious and walked away from Jesus.

I told her she must take a wooden spoon or some other object and spank him on his bottom hard enough so it will hurt.

It has to be hard enough to hurt. Pain is a great teacher.

A few swats on a bare bottom to have obedient children is not harsh but very biblical.

Women stop reading my blog when I write about spanking and submission. They have unteachable hearts.

I spanked my children when I was angry because rebellion is so ugly and I didn't want them to act ugly.

Pain is a great motivator for obedience.

Some of you may think that force feeding is just terrible. I disagree.

My children definitely feared us growing up.

The first time our children had a temper tantrum or refused to obey us, around 18 months, Ken and I would take turns telling them to pick up the toys {or whatever they were refusing to do} and then give them a swat on their bottom if they wouldn't do it. With all four of our children, it took almost four long, difficult hours.

One of them wouldn't pick up their raisans. We would tell her to pick them up, she would say "no", and we would spank her. She would cry for awhile. After awhile, we would again tell her to pick up her raisans. She refused. We spanked her again. We would make her stay where she was until she finally picked up her raisans. Ken and I would take turns because it was very tiring but oh, so worth it.

He said he remembers Ken spanking him one time but he couldn't recall why. He said Ken spanked harder and longer than I did!

She remembers several times she got spanked and just remembers me using my leather strap.

Ken had Ryan come over and pushed Ryan down on his bottom.

Boy, did I get it from some of you for flicking my babies' cheeks when they were nursing and bit me. I only had to do it once to each of them and they stopped. I did it hard enough that they cried.

Pain isn't always a bad thing as many of you think it is. One flick on the cheek and my babies never bit me again. They learned VERY quickly that they couldn't get away with that. Several swats on their hand when they were crawling and putting their fingers into a light socket taught them not to do that anymore. It was a quick and easy learning tool for us.

I spanked in anger sometimes, because I was usually pretty upset with my children when they needed a spanking

We used a special little strap and spanked hard enough so it would hurt. Pain is a great motivator and teacher.

As soon as they were crawling, if they were going to touch something and we said "No" but they touched it anyways, we slapped their hand.

If they were wiggling around while we changed their diaper, we would spank their bottom and they learned to be still.

They learned who was boss real early in their lives.

I allowed them to cry when they were babies. I even let them cry themselves to sleep

They cried a lot, but crying never hurt anybody.

Our children knew we were boss at a very young age. They weren't going to run our lives, we were going to run theirs.

There you go Ken. Now you can stop whining about poor, persecuted Lori. She has been quoted directly. Now let people decide for themselves whether she's equipped to be giving out parenting advice.

Oh hell, to be fair here is one last quote. Ken Alexander:

I ca only remember creating a bruise on one child

[SunnyAndrsn]

I am as appalled and frustrated as your husband is, as every decent parent with common sense. It really doesn't take a Master's degree and two PhDs.

What is the most frustrating for your husband and I is, the fact that years and years of intense research and study is swept from the table, because they pretend to know better than the 'so called' experts.

However the experts have seen the devastating effects of these child rearing methods. I had to deal with cases (as a court expert witness) I can't even talk about to this very day.

The same applies my oldest son aka Cuteneurorad, who as a radiologist has seen the X rays and brain scans of abused children.

Ken and Lori Alexander advocating this type of child rearing is a disgrace. In my country, the secular, liberal perverted Netherlands, they would have been prosecuted.

We have horror stories too...one case for DH that gave him nightmares. Many have made him cry. I'm an ER nurse and have had my share too.

Keep shining the light on these people so they can't hide behind religion.

[Koala]

Could you try again? Cause now my post has no context. :lol:

Sure! Sorry about that :)

So Ken was vehemently trying to explain to us that SSM did not promote wife spanking. This post by SSM was quoted:

Consider asking your husband if he would be willing to spank you as part of foreplay.

Please don’t panic. Spanking is not a slippery slope that will lead to BDSM, disturbing fetishes or deviant sexual practices. I can promise you that from personal experience; you won’t be spanked one day and in leather restraints the next. Some people practice Christian Domestic Discipline, but that is actually not what I am recommending either. This is only to be about increasing your attraction to him by having him display dominance via consensual sexual aggression.

It is his decision if he would be willing to try this; this may be outside his comfort zone completely, and he may be feeling very mistrustful of you, but if he is willing to try it, you may not be sure of what to do. Here is one possible way to go: first, ask him to buy a wooden hair brush that has a very flat back (the curved ones tend to leave more bruises). The brush should be on your dresser.

He can sit down on the edge of the bed and tell you to bring the brush to him. Get it, and then kneel down on the floor in front of him and hand the brush to him. He can then pull you firmly but lovingly across his lap, either with lingerie on or no bottoms. It might be easier to have your legs supported on the bed, but your hands off the bed so that you are slightly off balance. He can then administer the spanking; he might want to know that he can swat fairly hard without causing bruises, but even if you do have a bruise the next day, you won’t die.

The number of strokes should be up to him, not you; he decides when the spanking is over (h/t 7man for that idea), not you. When he is done, get on your knees in front of him and say thank you to him. You should thank him because he is doing something that may be outside his comfort zone in order to help you, and you do not deserve it. He is doing this out of love for you, so show him the gratitude he so richly deserves.

Scripture to meditate upon: For the moment all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it. Hebrews 12:11

To which Ken immediately replied:

BUT SSM made very clear to Lori she is not an advocate of Domestic Discipline

SSM is teaching some sex training for a previous whore

[polecat]

No they are not. The only thing they learn/instill is fear when you use a twig to teach them. Punishment might be used for wrongdoing and a baby has no comprehension at all of what he is doing wrong. Baby's job is to explore, that's not something to be punished but encouraged. A parent should watch over the safety of a baby. So buy a baby gate and put it in front of the stairs. Or just pick the baby up when it crawls up the stairs and bring it to safety. Finding your baby crawling up the stairs is rather questionable in itself, because one should never let a crawling baby out of sight. Does a 5 month old baby actually crawl? It seems very young they usually start between 7 and 10 month.

I had one kid who was barely sitting upright until about seven months. One kid who crawled at six months. One who took his first steps at seven months. I'd think five months would be within the range of normal, but I'm certainly no expert.

As a last resort don't use a twig but a leather strap or a horsewhip, very effective and they are never too young for that. Crawling up the stairs is a mortal sin, for a 5 month old that is.

I actually had to scroll up and down a couple times because I've read so much of this stuff that I honestly thought it was a quote from one of them.

My kids all had very basic motivations at those early ages, but fundy children seem remarkably advanced. Rather than being motivated by hunger, thirst, tiredness, etc. like my delayed kids, these kids have got manipulation down to a fine art and are constantly defying their parents with every move they make. My poor kids ... so behind, so delayed!

[polecat]

My children definitely feared us growing up.

L and K never seem to have doubts about their parenting. They are always completely, 100 percent confident that they are doing it right and that that is the ONLY way to do it ever. Brag about their children fearing them. Are proud of the way they beat their children into submission. Probably never once apologized to any of their kids for any mistakes they might have made (not that they ever made any, of course). But never once doubt their parenting.

Just an observation.

[Koala]

Another quote by Lori:

Controlling. I would love to control everybody around me...I always think I know best.

[Koala]

More creepiness from Lori:

She makes the point that spouses wouldn't spank each other. I am not sure about that. I bet there are a lot of spouses out there that would love to spank their spouse! ;)

I happen to think pain is a great motivator. It worked for me.

[RosyDaisy]

I think I'm going to be sick. Ken and Lori Alexander are fucking monsters!

[Ken]

More mean and nasty from Koala:

Misdiagnosed stomach issues for five years

Fried stomach with antibiotics to kill parasites

Sandwiched between two semi trucks on the Freeway with neck and back injuries

Pituitary menigioma with headaches

Spinal fusion with headaches and stomach aches

Recurring menigioma with headaches and stomach aches

Cyberknife with headaches and stomach aches

Persecution from Koala... and FJers ... I call that pain.

You are very creepy with your mind in the gutter.

[ViolaSebastian]

Ken, being in pain doesn't abdicate one from responsibility. Your wife is encouraging actions and ideas that are morally reprehensible. If she can't handle negative reactions to what she espouses due to her medical conditions, perhaps it's time she quit blogging.