Why Ken Alexander is really on FJ

[docmom]

You must know the debate on this subject is still wide open with studies on both sides trying ton support both positions. If a parent tries what we and others advocate and it does not work quickly and relatively easily in a week, then they can try other things or seek professional counsel.

I confess to not going back through all that Lori has written to verify this, but my recollection is that she does not routinely suggest trying other things if her methods do not work. The spanking post comes to mind -Just spank harder, it always works...Submission always works...Sleep training always works...

I guess that's sort of the whole point of our objection to Lori and Ken's advice- everything is black and white. One size fits all. It will always work. We know, out here in the real world, that that just isn't so.

[OkToBeTakei]

I think the ones warring against Easter are the fundies. 'Cos it's really a pagan holiday and stuff. Oh, and it's fun and uplifting so a definite no-no.

To all UK FJers, if you find you have just too many Easter eggs this year, send them my way. We just don't get them here.[/quote]

NOOOOoooooo :cry: That's awful!

Saying that last year I got a giant Walnut Whip. We end up throwing them out as the child gets so many. Well the good ones get eaten. Think of your favourite chocolate bar or candy then surround it in a huge chocolate egg what is not to love? :drool:

[Anny Nym]

"War on Easter" sounds like evil people in polo shirts firing Bazookas at little bunnies, baby lambs and screaming children in their Sunday´s best who are trying to use their cake nests as shields... :?

May this particular fundies be hit by one of the church bells returning from Rome for Easter Night! HA!

[Ken]

After 2-3 weeks on the FreeJinger Forum I was hoping to have come to some different conclusions. As of now my image of what is going on with this Forum is that it is not a healthy place, especially for any real disagreement.

I understand the original desire to try and investigate and perhaps even castigate conservative Christianity for its abuses, or seeming ultra-traditional values that fly in the face of feminism. Snark on its surface is harmless, but mixed with the hate filled angry profanity and mischaracterizations the Forum is quite hurtful and mean. This is acknowledge by its own disclaimers and some members who will not speak up to defend the truth for fear that they too will be castigated for their defense of their own individual values.

As an outsider that you have allowed in for a time, I appreciate the small bits of insight and legit concern I have received, but it comes at a cost of a massive amount of manure and hurtful comments. The idea that somehow because of a disclaimer that this can be a hurtful and mean place does not absolve individuals of their responsibility for tolerance and decency. As any discussion of Cyberbullying clearly points out, no matter what forum one is on, no matter what its rules, each member hiding behind their moniker is responsible for their own hateful angry, and malicious words, especially words that defame another’s good character.

The thought crosses my mind that perhaps this is just part of your game to have your prey “flounce†and show their frustration while angrily seeking the little Red X in the top corner of the browser for good. If this is just a game to many of you, so be it, but it is a very ugly game bordering on evil.

I have traveled the world working with thousands of people of different faiths, belief systems, modern and traditional values, and have friends of all walks of life including some terrific women and gay friends, but I have never seen a group that not only refuses to show at times any reasonableness in many discussions.

What scares me is not the individuals in the group because I am seeing some like salex and formergothaddite as probably good, yet misguided people, and even Koala as overall well meaning; Curious as one who at least likes a reasonable discussion. But when you put your comments together and have the cheering section chime in with their misunderstandings, profanity and speculation that becomes lies, it becomes a wicked place to try and have any real discussion.

What am I doing here? I is still not sure, but I knows much more than I did 2-3 weeks ago, and my concerns are not assuaged.

Only you all can decide what type of forum you will have, but if you desire to persecute me and my wife, and we are on the moderate side of conservative Christianity, I can imagine that your war may go deeper than what I had ever imagined. We are the balance, or middle of the road, to some of what you really are against in spanking and submission yet we get no credit for our loving and modest approach to both Biblical subjects.

Stop and look not at what you have written and said, but take the whole of what has been spewed at me and my wife the past 2-3 weeks and ask yourself if this is in any way reasonable? All we appeal to is for you to leave us alone and to stop publicly defaming us. To keep your angry hatred contained within common decency and tolerance, and within the Forum itself.

I came here, and you blasted me. I get it… it is my fault. But what propelled me to come was the danger I see within this Forum as it spills to the outside. The cauldron of anger overflows and people are getting hurt. You claim you are all about preventing abuse, yet your tactics are abusive.

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe? This is not the America I thought I would ever see and you all blame it on the Internet as your wield the Internet as your baseball bat.

Out for now… and sad that my time with you all has not been as productive as I might have liked. I have no specific agenda, just following the spirit who lives inside of me. Have a fun weekend.

[ladyamylynn]

I forgot the 11th commandment, "Thou shalt not mischaracterize!" My punishment will be imagining the 10 minute lube handy.

[Mango]

Ken,

You're a jerk. Let's just get that out of the way.

You're an outright liar or completely delusional.

I can't believe that ANYONE would want to do business with someone who has either of those things going on.

Reap what you sow and all that- but even more importantly, I hope that you do some serious praying and self-examination and figure out what is wrong with your life that you feel the need to do these things. It won't make me like you any better, but it'd be better for you and the people in your life.

[milkncookies76]

For the record, your lie about us spanking our babies for for hours is very offensive. We NEVER spanked a child until they were much older and NEVER spanked for not sleeping and NEVER spanked more than 5-10 seconds at a time. And no in four hours the child might have been spanked a total of 60 seconds and this might have happened once in their lifetime anything more than the modest 5-10 seconds of swats.

I am sorry that your child has a sleeping disorder, but I can promise you that allowing your baby to cry themselves to sleep a few nights between the age of 6-12 weeks would not cause a sleeping disorder. If we had had any issue with our children sleeping through the night we might have rethought allowing them to continue to cry, but crying for 30 minutes or less then off to sleep over 2-3 nights help make our children into great sleepers very early in life... every one of them.

I don't get your logic because either you would have discovered that what Lori and others have suggested works, or you would have found that for this particular child it does not. either way a parent must deal with the specific child, so why not try to let the baby develop good sleeping habits at a young age, then deal with their inability to sleep quickly if one sees that "self-soothing" is not working.

You must know the debate on this subject is still wide open with studies on both sides trying ton support both positions. If a parent tries what we and others advocate and it does not work quickly and relatively easily in a week, then they can try other things or seek professional counsel.

Trying the "self-soothing" approach has huge merits as seen in some studies, especially in the fact that such babies often have much happier and psychologically rested parents. When a parent chases a child's every cry they put themselves on a schedule that is impossible. Many babies may cry for no apparent reason even when being held or fed. Colic is common in babies and a mother holding a Colicky baby hours on end while they cry will severely impact the sanity of the parent(s) and not allow her the ability to properly care for her other children.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/24/health/ch ... e-enayati/

You get to parent however you like... but to put down a parent for their parenting when it was a successful approach for them, seems quite ungracious and unfair. Especially to then add inflammatory lies about our spanking our very young babies. That is uncalled for and untrue.

Perhaps if you wanted to really know the truth you might ask us what we might have done if our children had not learned quickly to sleep through the night. We might have done just as you have in that case, but certainly we would have first tried the easy way until it proves itself wrong after 2-5 nights of trying to let the baby cry back to sleep when they wake up in the middle of the night.

You say you never spanked your babies..... but what would you call hitting them with a branch?

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20577

[Ken]

1 minute of spanking. I counted and that's close to hitting the child between 30-40 times/minute. That could equate to hitting the child somewhere between 1800-2400 times in an hour's time :

This is a perfect example of what I just was talking about with my last comment.

The average spanking lasts 8-10 seconds, most are 1-3 swats.

The times we insisted that a child not be defiant happened once for three of our children, and zero times for another that I can recall. The child was swatted 2-3 times then asked to comply again. sent to time out, sent to their room, put back to where they were to comply. This went on for some time with maybe 5-6 such 8-10 second spankings over the course of the defiance. Total 60 seconds. You take the 60 seconds of swats separated by 15-20 minutes and come up with 1800-2400? That is either very creative math or an appeal for sensationalising to create a lie. Maybe 18 swats in 4 hours proving a 100% exaggeration with your math and logic.

Can you not be reasonable? I can understand if someone is truly concerned that one time per child we stopped the defiance with more spankings than we would normally give out in months, but we did have a purpose and a goal, and the goal was to love our child enough to teach them to obey their parents. Like it or not, the results have proven to be highly effective, leaving no psychological or physical issues, and in today's world of tree hugging sensibilities, maybe we would have done it differently.

We are purposefully toning down the spanking to not say, "spank harder," because this is not what she meant by it. We have modestly moved your way, but we refuse to stop talking about modest discipline with spanking as a legitimate discipline tool for parenting children. As much as you may not like it, the majority of parents still believe enough in spanking to have done it with their children. There is a place for it so long as it is modest and done in a loving way. You are not in the majority with your views and according to this poll, perhaps you are only a small minority if you never spank.

http://www.parents.com/blogs/dadabase/2 ... that-many/

Please try not to sensationalize and exaggerate such an important discussion.

[Mecca]

After 2-3 weeks on the FreeJinger Forum I was hoping to have come to some different conclusions. As of now my image of what is going on with this Forum is that it is not a healthy place, especially for any real disagreement.

I understand the original desire to try and investigate and perhaps even castigate conservative Christianity for its abuses, or seeming ultra-traditional values that fly in the face of feminism. Snark on its surface is harmless, but mixed with the hate filled angry profanity and mischaracterizations the Forum is quite hurtful and mean. This is acknowledge by its own disclaimers and some members who will not speak up to defend the truth for fear that they too will be castigated for their defense of their own individual values.

As an outsider that you have allowed in for a time, I appreciate the small bits of insight and legit concern I have received, but it comes at a cost of a massive amount of manure and hurtful comments. The idea that somehow because of a disclaimer that this can be a hurtful and mean place does not absolve individuals of their responsibility for tolerance and decency. As any discussion of Cyberbullying clearly points out, no matter what forum one is on, no matter what its rules, each member hiding behind their moniker is responsible for their own hateful angry, and malicious words, especially words that defame another’s good character.

The thought crosses my mind that perhaps this is just part of your game to have your prey “flounce†and show their frustration while angrily seeking the little Red X in the top corner of the browser for good. If this is just a game to many of you, so be it, but it is a very ugly game bordering on evil.

I have traveled the world working with thousands of people of different faiths, belief systems, modern and traditional values, and have friends of all walks of life including some terrific women and gay friends, but I have never seen a group that not only refuses to show at times any reasonableness in many discussions.

What scares me is not the individuals in the group because I am seeing some like salex and formergothaddite as probably good, yet misguided people, and even Koala as overall well meaning; Curious as one who at least likes a reasonable discussion. But when you put your comments together and have the cheering section chime in with their misunderstandings, profanity and speculation that becomes lies, it becomes a wicked place to try and have any real discussion.

What am I doing here? I is still not sure, but I knows much more than I did 2-3 weeks ago, and my concerns are not assuaged.

Only you all can decide what type of forum you will have, but if you desire to persecute me and my wife, and we are on the moderate side of conservative Christianity, I can imagine that your war may go deeper than what I had ever imagined. We are the balance, or middle of the road, to some of what you really are against in spanking and submission yet we get no credit for our loving and modest approach to both Biblical subjects.

Stop and look not at what you have written and said, but take the whole of what has been spewed at me and my wife the past 2-3 weeks and ask yourself if this is in any way reasonable? All we appeal to is for you to leave us alone and to stop publicly defaming us. To keep your angry hatred contained within common decency and tolerance, and within the Forum itself.

I came here, and you blasted me. I get it… it is my fault. But what propelled me to come was the danger I see within this Forum as it spills to the outside. The cauldron of anger overflows and people are getting hurt. You claim you are all about preventing abuse, yet your tactics are abusive.

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe? This is not the America I thought I would ever see and you all blame it on the Internet as your wield the Internet as your baseball bat.

Out for now… and sad that my time with you all has not been as productive as I might have liked. I have no specific agenda, just following the spirit who lives inside of me. Have a fun weekend.

:violin: Anybody else imagining sad violin music while reading this?

I see a pattern here. Every time Ken gets called on the carpet for the mess he creates, out whips a massive "whoa is me" post claiming he really is not bad, we are victimizing his very reasonable family, Ken never fails to throw in random cyber bulling crap that does not apply to this situation, and closes with an "out for now."

Can you get some new material for your tantrums, Ken? I am bored.

[ShesCrafty]

After 2-3 weeks on the FreeJinger Forum I was hoping to have come to some different conclusions. As of now my image of what is going on with this Forum is that it is not a healthy place, especially for any real disagreement.

I understand the original desire to try and investigate and perhaps even castigate conservative Christianity for its abuses, or seeming ultra-traditional values that fly in the face of feminism. Snark on its surface is harmless, but mixed with the hate filled angry profanity and mischaracterizations the Forum is quite hurtful and mean. This is acknowledge by its own disclaimers and some members who will not speak up to defend the truth for fear that they too will be castigated for their defense of their own individual values.

As an outsider that you have allowed in for a time, I appreciate the small bits of insight and legit concern I have received, but it comes at a cost of a massive amount of manure and hurtful comments. The idea that somehow because of a disclaimer that this can be a hurtful and mean place does not absolve individuals of their responsibility for tolerance and decency. As any discussion of Cyberbullying clearly points out, no matter what forum one is on, no matter what its rules, each member hiding behind their moniker is responsible for their own hateful angry, and malicious words, especially words that defame another’s good character.

The thought crosses my mind that perhaps this is just part of your game to have your prey “flounce†and show their frustration while angrily seeking the little Red X in the top corner of the browser for good. If this is just a game to many of you, so be it, but it is a very ugly game bordering on evil.

I have traveled the world working with thousands of people of different faiths, belief systems, modern and traditional values, and have friends of all walks of life including some terrific women and gay friends, but I have never seen a group that not only refuses to show at times any reasonableness in many discussions.

What scares me is not the individuals in the group because I am seeing some like salex and formergothaddite as probably good, yet misguided people, and even Koala as overall well meaning; Curious as one who at least likes a reasonable discussion. But when you put your comments together and have the cheering section chime in with their misunderstandings, profanity and speculation that becomes lies, it becomes a wicked place to try and have any real discussion.

What am I doing here? I is still not sure, but I knows much more than I did 2-3 weeks ago, and my concerns are not assuaged.

Only you all can decide what type of forum you will have, but if you desire to persecute me and my wife, and we are on the moderate side of conservative Christianity, I can imagine that your war may go deeper than what I had ever imagined. We are the balance, or middle of the road, to some of what you really are against in spanking and submission yet we get no credit for our loving and modest approach to both Biblical subjects.

Stop and look not at what you have written and said, but take the whole of what has been spewed at me and my wife the past 2-3 weeks and ask yourself if this is in any way reasonable? All we appeal to is for you to leave us alone and to stop publicly defaming us. To keep your angry hatred contained within common decency and tolerance, and within the Forum itself.

I came here, and you blasted me. I get it… it is my fault. But what propelled me to come was the danger I see within this Forum as it spills to the outside. The cauldron of anger overflows and people are getting hurt. You claim you are all about preventing abuse, yet your tactics are abusive.

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe? This is not the America I thought I would ever see and you all blame it on the Internet as your wield the Internet as your baseball bat.

Out for now… and sad that my time with you all has not been as productive as I might have liked. I have no specific agenda, just following the spirit who lives inside of me. Have a fun weekend.

Allow me to paraphrase:

This forum is nothing but a group of women who do not respect me despite my possession of a penis. You refuse to accept that this makes me better than you. I've attempted flattery, since I know that's what you ladies like, but you still see me as I actually am, a delusional asshole. Furthermore, you continue to prove that I am a liar by quoting my own words back to me. Don't you know this is cyber bullying?! I will be contacting my lawyer to sue both the owner if this forum and Google because they will not do what I, Ken Alexander, owner of the Mighty Penis, commands them to. Since you lowly women fail to recognize greatness when it's in your presence, I will be going away now (but not really, because I'm a dirty old man who gets off on discussing sex with anonymous women).

P.S. It totes okay to beat a child for hours on end, there is no such thing as marital rape as long as you use lube, and a woman who drinks or walks down dark alleys is responsible if she gets raped.

[J'ean Skirt]

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe? This is not the America I thought I would ever see and you all blame it on the Internet as your wield the Internet as your baseball bat.

We've been very tolerant of you and allowing you to say anything you want here. There's no physical damage here. We're engaging you with your ideas.

You've been allowed to come and state your case. That we disagree with you and find your case weak and irresponsible is not a personal attack. We have engaged with you based on what you write.

Out for now… and sad that my time with you all has not been as productive as I might have liked. I have no specific agenda, just following the spirit who lives inside of me. Have a fun weekend.

Let me guess - productive would have been all us non-submissive women to submit to you and agree your ideas are right.

Your ideas are not right and while it is absolutely your right to hold them it's not your right to have everyone agree with you.

[samurai_sarah]

Wall of Text

Translation:

You're mean. You're the meanest meanies of them all, because you refuse to accept my godly wisdom and that's just mean. Lori should be able to spew whatever she likes all over the internet, but you shouldn't, because you're mean. Redundant appeal to American values. Have a nice weekend. See what a nice guy I am, when you're all just being sooooo mean?

eta: crossposted with shescrafty

[ViolaSebastian]

We are purposefully toning down the spanking to not say, "spank harder," because this is not what she meant by it.

How in the blue blazes can 'spank harder' mean anything except 'spank harder'??

[Ken]

You say you never spanked your babies..... but what would you call hitting them with a branch?

It is tough to debate here when you say things are are not true. We never hit any of of children with a branch, and what you are referring to is a twig, the twig did not hurt, and this is not a story about our children. You can't just believe everything you read that may mischaracterize us, nor can you assign blame to us when we never twigged our children.

But you prove once again that no matter how many misconceptions and lies I correct, someone in this Forum will post another and another after another, and few on here who know the truth care to set the record straight, but some do... which I appreciate.

[milkncookies76]

After 2-3 weeks on the FreeJinger Forum I was hoping to have come to some different conclusions. As of now my image of what is going on with this Forum is that it is not a healthy place, especially for any real disagreement.

I understand the original desire to try and investigate and perhaps even castigate conservative Christianity for its abuses, or seeming ultra-traditional values that fly in the face of feminism. Snark on its surface is harmless, but mixed with the hate filled angry profanity and mischaracterizations the Forum is quite hurtful and mean. This is acknowledge by its own disclaimers and some members who will not speak up to defend the truth for fear that they too will be castigated for their defense of their own individual values.

As an outsider that you have allowed in for a time, I appreciate the small bits of insight and legit concern I have received, but it comes at a cost of a massive amount of manure and hurtful comments. The idea that somehow because of a disclaimer that this can be a hurtful and mean place does not absolve individuals of their responsibility for tolerance and decency. As any discussion of Cyberbullying clearly points out, no matter what forum one is on, no matter what its rules, each member hiding behind their moniker is responsible for their own hateful angry, and malicious words, especially words that defame another’s good character.

The thought crosses my mind that perhaps this is just part of your game to have your prey “flounce†and show their frustration while angrily seeking the little Red X in the top corner of the browser for good. If this is just a game to many of you, so be it, but it is a very ugly game bordering on evil.

I have traveled the world working with thousands of people of different faiths, belief systems, modern and traditional values, and have friends of all walks of life including some terrific women and gay friends, but I have never seen a group that not only refuses to show at times any reasonableness in many discussions.

What scares me is not the individuals in the group because I am seeing some like salex and formergothaddite as probably good, yet misguided people, and even Koala as overall well meaning; Curious as one who at least likes a reasonable discussion. But when you put your comments together and have the cheering section chime in with their misunderstandings, profanity and speculation that becomes lies, it becomes a wicked place to try and have any real discussion.

What am I doing here? I is still not sure, but I knows much more than I did 2-3 weeks ago, and my concerns are not assuaged.

Only you all can decide what type of forum you will have, but if you desire to persecute me and my wife, and we are on the moderate side of conservative Christianity, I can imagine that your war may go deeper than what I had ever imagined. We are the balance, or middle of the road, to some of what you really are against in spanking and submission yet we get no credit for our loving and modest approach to both Biblical subjects.

Stop and look not at what you have written and said, but take the whole of what has been spewed at me and my wife the past 2-3 weeks and ask yourself if this is in any way reasonable? All we appeal to is for you to leave us alone and to stop publicly defaming us. To keep your angry hatred contained within common decency and tolerance, and within the Forum itself.

I came here, and you blasted me. I get it… it is my fault. But what propelled me to come was the danger I see within this Forum as it spills to the outside. The cauldron of anger overflows and people are getting hurt. You claim you are all about preventing abuse, yet your tactics are abusive.

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe? This is not the America I thought I would ever see and you all blame it on the Internet as your wield the Internet as your baseball bat.

Out for now… and sad that my time with you all has not been as productive as I might have liked. I have no specific agenda, just following the spirit who lives inside of me. Have a fun weekend.

No, you know what's evil Ken?

Beating a baby. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20577&start=20

Encouraging women to stay in physically abusive relationships, so their abusers can become Christian. http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... 8&p=529007

Threatening to kick your child out of the house. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=19532

Hitting a toddler for rebelling..... by running away from a diaper change. http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... =8&t=17723

Beating children. http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... =8&t=15590

Force-feeding a baby. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=11428

Now let's see... who advocated all these things?

[Ken]

How in the blue blazes can 'spank harder' mean anything except 'spank harder'??

We have been through this many times... We believe that if one is going to swat the swat needs to carry enough of a sting to actually deliver modest pain To swat and deliver zero pain or pain so mild that the child does not mind it ... it would be best not to swat at all. A small, modest sting is all a swat should be about, and the "spank harder" was in reference to not knowing if the parent was giving enough of a sting to make the swat effective.

but we stand corrected... "spank harder" is hopefully eliminated from our vocabulary.

[GeoBQn]

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe?

Does this mean your wife will stop saying that the Democrats are the party of Satan?

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2014/02/adaption-of-romans-one-platform.html

[J'ean Skirt]

It is tough to debate here when you say things are are not true. We never hit any of of children with a branch, and what you are referring to is a twig, the twig did not hurt, and this is not a story about our children. You can't just believe everything you read that may mischaracterize us, nor can you assign blame to us when we never twigged our children.

But you prove once again that no matter how many misconceptions and lies I correct, someone in this Forum will post another and another after another, and few on here who know the truth care to set the record straight, but some do... which I appreciate.

Your own words quoted back at you are not misconceptions. They're what you, and Lori, tell us about your lives. We're responding to the things you and Lori have written. We're responding to your words and if your words are unclear, then that's not our problem.

As for the argument we're not giving you enough of a benefit of the doubt, why should we? Because you're a Godly Man? So what? The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Your intentions, and Lori's intentions may be good. But your results and your actual words are horrid. I think they're horrid even when I give you the biggest benefit of the doubt out there.

You may mean well. But that's not translating. For me the results are more important than the intentions. And your results, to me, are dangerous and bad.

[milkncookies76]

It is tough to debate here when you say things are are not true. We never hit any of of children with a branch, and what you are referring to is a twig, the twig did not hurt, and this is not a story about our children. You can't just believe everything you read that may mischaracterize us, nor can you assign blame to us when we never twigged our children.

But you prove once again that no matter how many misconceptions and lies I correct, someone in this Forum will post another and another after another, and few on here who know the truth care to set the record straight, but some do... which I appreciate.

Thank Buddha for small miracles that you never hit your own babies. But, since your wife is advocating this, I think it's just as bad. She claims it's like hitting yourself with a pencil.... which hurts like hell! I have this habit of tapping a pencil against my face while thinking, and on many occasions I use a bit too much force, and it stings like crazy! I imagine it hurts a hell of a lot more for a teensy little baby. :evil:

[Ken]

I just addressed this, and if you are going to be too lazy to do your own research and depend on the mischaracterizations and lies... so be it.

I cannot defend what FreeJingers say... because it is filled with manure... which you are obviously believing. But happy to defend what we say.

Just because someone puts a mischaracterization into a header does not mean it is true. Go look for yourself.

[milkncookies76]

We have been through this many times... We believe that if one is going to swat the swat needs to carry enough of a sting to actually deliver modest pain To swat and deliver zero pain or pain so mild that the child does not mind it ... it would be best not to swat at all. A small, modest sting is all a swat should be about, and the "spank harder" was in reference to not knowing if the parent was giving enough of a sting to make the swat effective.

but we stand corrected... "spank harder" is hopefully eliminated from our vocabulary.

Pray tell, what is the proper level of sting?

[Mecca]

Ken wrote:

America was founded on certain principles of tolerance and freedom of discussion. Can we not have such a thing in this Forum or is it all about winning ones ideals by personally attacking others for what they believe? This is not the America I thought I would ever see and you all blame it on the Internet as your wield the Internet as your baseball bat.

This cracks me up for various reasons. Ken is trying to put a spin on this forum like there is some U.S.A. Government entity running this place and his freedoms are being squashed. Also, the above is coming from a group of people that on their own blog shuts down any form of discussion that is not praising them for their very public destructive point of view. How many times, Ken, has Lori deleted comments off of her blog that disagreed with her? And we are not talking about personal attacks here. We are talking about reasonable debate. So, before you point the finger at FJ, that has never once censored you here I might add, can you please look in that mirror of your's?

[milkncookies76]

I just addressed this, and if you are going to be too lazy to do your own research and depend on the mischaracterizations and lies... so be it.

I cannot defend what FreeJingers say... because it is filled with manure... which you are obviously believing. But happy to defend what we say.

Just because someone puts a mischaracterization into a header does not mean it is true. Go look for yourself.

I did look for myself, you pickle-eating schmuck. And yep, she advocates switching a baby. How does she sleep at night?

[Ken]

We've been very tolerant of you and allowing you to say anything you want here. There's no physical damage here. We're engaging you with your ideas.

You've been allowed to come and state your case. That we disagree with you and find your case weak and irresponsible is not a personal attack. We have engaged with you based on what you write.

Let me guess - productive would have been all us non-submissive women to submit to you and agree your ideas are right.

Your ideas are not right and while it is absolutely your right to hold them it's not your right to have everyone agree with you.

I do not need you to agree with me Brisky... and the last thing I need is for you to submit as the Bible teaches a women to only submit to her husband, not other men.

What I appeal to is reasonableness without mischarcterizations and lies. Is that beyond reason for you and your friends? Last I saw there is still a L.r. Al.x.nd.r is a F..k.ng M.nst.r sitting under my wife's name in a Google search. Explain the no personal attacks? It is ongoing with no one willing to stand up and say it is wrong, let's solve thing.

And I do not have time to go back and show you the myriad of lies and mischaracterizations I have exposed in 2 weeks. Hundreds... a few more today. Are you and others so blind?

[milkncookies76]

I do not need you to agree with me Brisky... and the last thing I need is for you to submit as the Bible teaches a women to only submit to her husband, not other men.

What I appeal to is reasonableness without mischarcterizations and lies. Is that beyond reason for you and your friends? Last I saw there is still a L.r. Al.x.nd.r is a F..k.ng M.nst.r sitting under my wife's name in a Google search. Explain the no personal attacks? It is ongoing with no one willing to stand up and say it is wrong, let's solve thing.

And I do not have time to go back and show you the myriad of lies and mischaracterizations I have exposed in 2 weeks. Hundreds... a few more today. Are you and others so blind?

Good God, are you an investigative reporter?