House of Paine

[nokidsmom]

Well, I haven't had anything to do with them in about 12 years, really. I did see them about 4 years ago at the thrift store but I may have put on my sunglasses and gone to the other side of the store to avoid them...

Gil used to work for Nabisco, but got laid off in a cutback after child #7 I think. That's when he just started doing odd jobs because he said a real job would cut down the time he could spend with his family. Also starting around then is when the family started becoming much more conservative - we could never really play with the kids anymore because they had to stay in the room with their parents being quiet and seen and not heard, and when they walked anywhere, even around our house, they had to put their hands on each other's shoulders and walk in a line. When I was around 14 or so they were being kicked out of their rental house and were offered a free house about three hours away, but when they got there it was a dump so they moved back to the knoxville area to another house that was given them free, but was REALLY small - I think that's the one that the Duggar's (for free) enlarged for them. I think that now Gil Bates just cuts trees - he cut one of my grandmother's trees a few months ago.

When we first met them I really liked them and loved hanging out with them - partly because of the free Nabisco products, I admit ;) but I was only about 4 or 5. We originally met because my family was in the Gothard home school program and they were interested in it. Twenty-five years ago everyone in Knoxville who homeschooled knew each other. My family was originally fairly involved in ATI, but to become VERY in, you either have to be rich, pretty and incredibly musically talented, have more than 10 kids, or some combination... we ended up leaving when I was about 16 or 17. The Bates just got more and more involved the more kids they had.

I don't remember Erin being spoiled, but again she was pretty young last time I saw her :) Kelly is generally pretty sweet in public, but she always disapproved of me because I was a tomboy and hated things like cooking and sewing, and liked to talk and give my opinion freely - I once told her that my favorite movie was The Princess Bride and that did NOT go over well!! lol

I also know the Warren family that you sometimes see in their pictures - we met them also because of the homeschool thing and then went to church with them for years. Their dad has the WEIRDEST bible beliefs ever. I know that they went to church with the Bates after us, but I think something happened at that church with the pastor and they all left. I know that we visited one time and were not impressed with the teaching and the lack of accountability for the pastor - no elders or deacons, his word was it. Also there was a visiting pastor who preached for over an hour on the dangers of taking the word "Baptist" out of the church name.

The Bates live near my sister in Halls, who is a manager at Steak n Shake and she says that they eat there regularly, and everyone hates them because they will ask for food to go, to avoid a tip, and then sit down and eat and make a huge mess. They also often ask for free food. Also they act like they don't know her... probably because she wears pants now and isn't married and has two kids. ;) :naughty:

I also met the Duggar's a couple times, when they were in the same family viewing room at the ATI conference with my parents - they only had 7 children at the time and weren't really well known yet.

First off, I want to welcome you too!

Interesting hearing about your experiences while knowing the Bates at one point and what you hear of them now. One thing about your sister's experiences and the fact you wanted to avoid them at the thrift shop: are other people in the area tired of their constant requests for freebies, "donations" and ways to get out of paying more money like sitting down at your sister's restaurant after ordering food to go? Do people actually try to avoid doing any business with them?

[formergothardite]

My family almost had the coveted 10+ children but we sadly couldn't sing, only a couple of us could play an instrument and we weren't really good at sewing our own matching clothes so we were not going to make it far into ATI. And ATI is really for rich people or people like the Bates who despite being poor managed to make it onto the board of directors. But traveling around to the training centers was not cheap.

That is so weird about them having to walk in a line like that.

[mirandae]

First off, I want to welcome you too!

Interesting hearing about your experiences while knowing the Bates at one point and what you hear of them now. One thing about your sister's experiences and the fact you wanted to avoid them at the thrift shop: are other people in the area tired of their constant requests for freebies, "donations" and ways to get out of paying more money like sitting down at your sister's restaurant after ordering food to go? Do people actually try to avoid doing any business with them?

I don't really know about other people. I actually live in Farragut, which is about an hour away from them.

Formergotharide - I KNOW!! You have to pay for the privilege of working at the gothard training centers, so they are not only getting free labor, they are being paid to allow free labor!! I went to the Sound Foundations music training (my grandparents paid) and then to a Handel's Messiah workshop (my church paid, since I was the pianist) but that was it for us and we left soon after.

[bal maiden]

Mirandae, thanks for the fascinating insight! The walking in a line thing sounds very odd indeed, do you know why they had to do that?

[mirandae]

Mirandae, thanks for the fascinating insight! The walking in a line thing sounds very odd indeed, do you know why they had to do that?

I saw other families do it at the Knoxville conferences... I guess it was to show off how well trained your children were. And of course to keep them in line. How else do you manage 10 kids 10 and under?! :think:

[PennySycamore]

I'd hate that ruffly shower curtain which looks like it was sewn out of one of Scarlett O'Hara old petticoats, but I'd love a pink bathroom! Or a blue bathroom or even green. They're so mid-century!

I'm surprised that Kelly Bates would frown on someone who wasn't into cooking considering some of the crap recipes of hers I've seen.

[mirandae]

I'd hate that ruffly shower curtain which looks like it was sewn out of one of Scarlett O'Hara old petticoats, but I'd love a pink bathroom! Or a blue bathroom or even green. They're so mid-century!

I'm surprised that Kelly Bates would frown on someone who wasn't into cooking considering some of the crap recipes of hers I've seen.

It wasn't so much the cooking as the general lack of "womanly stay at home mom" interests

[Ralar]

I very much doubt either of them would identify their courtship as the root of any issues they may be having. They did the courtship the exact way they had been taught to, and got their big fairy take wedding at the end as a reward, complete with lots of compliments and praise for maintaining their purity.

If they are having problems they will put it down to not praying together enough, or remind themselves of the fundie belief that love is a choice, not an emotion. Chad's family may also blame it on Erin not truly "leaving and cleaving" and becoming 100% a Paine - it seems that she's still spending a lot of time at her parent's home and having her siblings over to stay.

Are they having problems? Maybe they simply realized that they are practically strangers, and although they are husband and wife, they never built the type of relationship that usually leads to marriage. They spent virtually no time alone before trying the knot. maybe they are not fighting, but rather they are finally in the "getting to know one another" stage.

[nokidsmom]

I don't really know about other people. I actually live in Farragut, which is about an hour away from them.

OK, I was just wondering. Given that Gil has done this for years and is the main way he "supports" his family, I would think this sort of thing would get pretty old amongst some of the local businesses. Then, again there's probably no shortage of those who still want to help either.

[Rescinded and Mended]

Well, I haven't had anything to do with them in about 12 years, really. I did see them about 4 years ago at the thrift store but I may have put on my sunglasses and gone to the other side of the store to avoid them...

Gil used to work for Nabisco, but got laid off in a cutback after child #7 I think. That's when he just started doing odd jobs because he said a real job would cut down the time he could spend with his family. Also starting around then is when the family started becoming much more conservative - we could never really play with the kids anymore because they had to stay in the room with their parents being quiet and seen and not heard, and when they walked anywhere, even around our house, they had to put their hands on each other's shoulders and walk in a line. When I was around 14 or so they were being kicked out of their rental house and were offered a free house about three hours away, but when they got there it was a dump so they moved back to the knoxville area to another house that was given them free, but was REALLY small - I think that's the one that the Duggar's (for free) enlarged for them. I think that now Gil Bates just cuts trees - he cut one of my grandmother's trees a few months ago.

When we first met them I really liked them and loved hanging out with them - partly because of the free Nabisco products, I admit ;) but I was only about 4 or 5. We originally met because my family was in the Gothard home school program and they were interested in it. Twenty-five years ago everyone in Knoxville who homeschooled knew each other. My family was originally fairly involved in ATI, but to become VERY in, you either have to be rich, pretty and incredibly musically talented, have more than 10 kids, or some combination... we ended up leaving when I was about 16 or 17. The Bates just got more and more involved the more kids they had.

I don't remember Erin being spoiled, but again she was pretty young last time I saw her :) Kelly is generally pretty sweet in public, but she always disapproved of me because I was a tomboy and hated things like cooking and sewing, and liked to talk and give my opinion freely - I once told her that my favorite movie was The Princess Bride and that did NOT go over well!! lol

I also know the Warren family that you sometimes see in their pictures - we met them also because of the homeschool thing and then went to church with them for years. Their dad has the WEIRDEST bible beliefs ever. I know that they went to church with the Bates after us, but I think something happened at that church with the pastor and they all left. I know that we visited one time and were not impressed with the teaching and the lack of accountability for the pastor - no elders or deacons, his word was it. Also there was a visiting pastor who preached for over an hour on the dangers of taking the word "Baptist" out of the church name.

The Bates live near my sister in Halls, who is a manager at Steak n Shake and she says that they eat there regularly, and everyone hates them because they will ask for food to go, to avoid a tip, and then sit down and eat and make a huge mess. They also often ask for free food. Also they act like they don't know her... probably because she wears pants now and isn't married and has two kids. ;) :naughty:

I also met the Duggar's a couple times, when they were in the same family viewing room at the ATI conference with my parents - they only had 7 children at the time and weren't really well known yet.

I also think the walking in a line thing is weird. I could see teaching my kids this if we went out to a public place like a grocery store if I didn't want to have to constantly count heads and I had 4 or more, but having to do it at a friend's house seems especially odd.

And thanks for sharing, Mirandae. :wink-kitty:

[mirandae]

I wouldn't be surprised, I just don't know from personal experience except what my sister has said. :) I do know that they try and get free things whenever possible and often people feel sorry for them... they got piano lessons for free for that reason.

[nokidsmom]

I wouldn't be surprised, I just don't know from personal experience except what my sister has said. :) I do know that they try and get free things whenever possible and often people feel sorry for them... they got piano lessons for free for that reason.

I have heard that too: that they all try to get free things. While I am sure there's a lot of kind folk out there who do feel sorry for them and truly want to help, but I have always wondered if there's those who say "no". Not necessarily out of meanness, but some businesses might feel they can't afford to give stuff away especially if it's "repeat" business. Maybe once is OK but again and again....maybe not.

Thanks for sharing your observations, mirandae. :)

[Georgiana]

I wouldn't be surprised, I just don't know from personal experience except what my sister has said. :) I do know that they try and get free things whenever possible and often people feel sorry for them... they got piano lessons for free for that reason.

Thanks so much for answering all these questions!

Wow, Gil and Kelly sound like real pieces of work. They chose to have tons of kids, then chose not to seek suitable employment to provide for them, and then rely on the kindness of others to support them. I wonder how the next generation will fare? After all, the market will very quickly become saturated with big families looking for handouts if even 1/3 of the children follow their parents' lead.

[mirandae]

Thanks so much for answering all these questions!

Wow, Gil and Kelly sound like real pieces of work. They chose to have tons of kids, then chose not to seek suitable employment to provide for them, and then rely on the kindness of others to support them. I wonder how the next generation will fare? After all, the market will very quickly become saturated with big families looking for handouts if even 1/3 of the children follow their parents' lead.

Yeah when I heard that they were getting their own tv show it really ticked me off... I don't think that people should be rewarded for that kind of behavior. However it hasn't stopped me from blog-stalking them ;)

[Mela99]

That Steak n Shake comment infuriates me. I HATE people who do that. Shouldn't the managers tell them to leave if they get food to go?

[mirandae]

That Steak n Shake comment infuriates me. I HATE people who do that. Shouldn't the managers tell them to leave if they get food to go?

My sister is one of the managers. I've told her that she should, but I think she just hates dealing with them. I can mention it again. I know that I would. :twisted:

[Alachantal]

Are they having problems? Maybe they simply realized that they are practically strangers, and although they are husband and wife, they never built the type of relationship that usually leads to marriage. They spent virtually no time alone before trying the knot. maybe they are not fighting, but rather they are finally in the "getting to know one another" stage.

I wouldn't be surprised if the getting to know one another stage came with a lot of fighting, though. They're two people who, for all intents and purposes, were kind of thrown together in a house with this fanciful idea of how things should be, and now they have to make it work. They don't have the option in their religion of "oh fuck, I married the wrong person", nor did they have the option of really, deeply getting to know each other before tying the knot.

At least he's trying (or at least it appears like he's trying). Hopefully she's putting in some effort as well.

[Dandruff]

My sister is one of the managers. I've told her that she should, but I think she just hates dealing with them. I can mention it again. I know that I would. :twisted:

Mirandae...first of all, thanks for sharing. Second, do they give the impression of being "poor"? I'm trying to understand how they can afford to send two sons on a mission to Asia and eat steak out (unless it's a really inexpensive place, I'm unfamiliar with it), yet draw the line on paying tips.

[singsingsing]

Unbelievable that they would order to go and then sit there and eat it and make a mess so that they don't have to tip. If that's true they should be utterly ashamed of themselves. Obnoxious behaviour... totally uncharitable, too. Like they think the world owes them.

[mirandae]

Mirandae...first of all, thanks for sharing. Second, do they give the impression of being "poor"? I'm trying to understand how they can afford to send two sons on a mission to Asia and eat steak out (unless it's a really inexpensive place, I'm unfamiliar with it), yet draw the line on paying tips.

They have money now from the tv show, which I assume is how they pay for the trips. And steak n shake is by no means a steak place... just a burger place, but sit down and you get waited on.

[Justme]

My sister is one of the managers. I've told her that she should, but I think she just hates dealing with them. I can mention it again. I know that I would. :twisted:

S&S should add the 18% gratuity that is normally added for parties of 6+. ;) I've never heard of Steak & Shake, but where I live, when you order food to go, you go to the bar and they hand you a sack of food, you pay and go. You can't sit at a table without a hostess seating you....

[browngrl]

For many years I lied and said that red was my favourite colour. However, as I head into my "don't give a fuck" years I can finally admit the truth: I love pink. Yet, even I find that bed room excessively pink. Chad must really really love Erin - either that or they never have sex with the lights on.

[nausicaa]

My family almost had the coveted 10+ children but we sadly couldn't sing, only a couple of us could play an instrument and we weren't really good at sewing our own matching clothes so we were not going to make it far into ATI. And ATI is really for rich people or people like the Bates who despite being poor managed to make it onto the board of directors. But traveling around to the training centers was not cheap.

That is so weird about them having to walk in a line like that.

I rewatched the some Duggar episodes the the Bates the other day on YouTube, and in one of the episodes they file out onto the porch like that with one hand on the next's shoulder.

[mirandae]

I rewatched the some Duggar episodes the the Bates the other day on YouTube, and in one of the episodes they file out onto the porch like that with one hand on the next's shoulder.

I feel the need to search youtube for that now :) what was the name of the video?

[milkncookies76]

I rewatched the some Duggar episodes the the Bates the other day on YouTube, and in one of the episodes they file out onto the porch like that with one hand on the next's shoulder.

That is so creepy. What, do they think the feminist ninjas are going to kidnap their kids and turn them gay?