House of Paine

[miffy]

The guest room is so similar to the rooms at Hotel Cheyenne Disneyland Paris.

[scc12]

deleted

[Rebelwife]

? uh,something doesn't sound right.Steak n Shake is fast food.I don't think you have to be seated,nor do you need to leave a tip.It's steak sandwiches,sort of like those Steak um's that you get at the grocery store,only a bit better.

http://www.steaknshake.com

Our local SteaknShake is a sit down hamburger joint where a server takes your order at the table and you are expected to leave a tip. Don't care much for their food but they do have very yummy shakes.

You also have to be seated so I can't imagine the balls it would take to just grab tables and sit down.

ETA just because I was curious and looked it up... Per Wikipedia their hamburgers are called steak burgers because the were originally made with ground T-bone, sirloin and round steak.

[scc12]

ok thx,I thought it just looked like a FF place.

[scc12]

well,look what they did w the free Christian clinic they used for Kelly's pregnancies.I've always thought something like that was meant for young ppl who are having a hard time starting out and need medical care,not for an older couple who already have kids in the double-digits and still expect a free ob. Dr and free clinic care.jmo though.

[nelliebelle1197]

ok thx,I thought it just looked like a FF place.

And the hamburgers are not like Steak Ums. It is more on the level of an IHOP.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

My family was originally fairly involved in ATI, but to become VERY in, you either have to be rich, pretty and incredibly musically talented, have more than 10 kids, or some combination... we ended up leaving when I was about 16 or 17.

Sounds more like a sorority than a religion. "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" talk about poisonous fruits.

[Elenor]

Another strain for this young marriage could be the Gothard trouble. I mean they must have heard rumors by now (Gil being on the ATI board, the Paine family being involved in ATI). Up until marriage they followed along with their parents. Suddently they have unsupervised admission to the internet. There is a chance they are reacting different to the stuff about ATI/Gothard coming to the light these days. Perhaps Chad is appalled, while Erin is in denial and think it's gossip... or the other way around: Erin has herself seen some things at HQ and believes the charges made concerning Bill. Anyhow to experience that everything you grew up with is crumbling under your feet and people you looked up to are liers and deceivers is a very traumatic experience!

BTW, has anybody questioned Kelly on her blog concerning Gothard?

[xReems]

This is Princess Erin after all-girl had a two part post on her engagement post and enjoys the attention much more than any other siblings. Kelly has claimed numerous times that Erin considers her as a best friend, so I'm guessing that life after wedding is still a huge adjustment to Erin. At the end of the day, I do think Chad truly loves her and will do anything to put a smile on her face so if it means that he has to sleep in a room that resembles something an 8 year old would want, I give him credit.

Chad said that they're praying what the next step will be after Erin graduates in May-I don't see them leaving TN anytime soon if Erin has her way. I can see Erin falling apart completely if they end up moving back to OK.

[Mela99]

And the hamburgers are not like Steak Ums. It is more on the level of an IHOP.

Steak n Shake is amazing. Their milkshakes are stellar and the steak burgers.... unf.

You can either get your food to go or you sit down and get waited on like a regular restaurant. Definitely not a fast food place.

[nokidsmom]

This is Princess Erin after all-girl had a two part post on her engagement post and enjoys the attention much more than any other siblings. Kelly has claimed numerous times that Erin considers her as a best friend, so I'm guessing that life after wedding is still a huge adjustment to Erin. At the end of the day, I do think Chad truly loves her and will do anything to put a smile on her face so if it means that he has to sleep in a room that resembles something an 8 year old would want, I give him credit.

Chad said that they're praying what the next step will be after Erin graduates in May-I don't see them leaving TN anytime soon if Erin has her way. I can see Erin falling apart completely if they end up moving back to OK.

IIRC, it was mentioned somewhere here (maybe back in the wedding thread) that Chad wanted to move back to OK, but with Erin's difficulties adjusting (I have no doubt she's having them) he might be reconsidering that. Of course, in praying about it, Erin can always fall back on the Lord is leading her to stay in TN or some such fundie justification to get her way.

I think Chad is dealing with a somewhat emotionally fragile wife. I don't think he expected that.

[NellieBell]

I agree that Steak and Shake is a great restaurant and am also furious that Gil and Kelly rob the wait staff of their tips. How dare they? They deserve to named and shamed for that. We once were eating there and saw a bus boy take almost half of our waitress's tips off a table. We told her and she literally ripped him a new asshole. It was fantastic. :)

I was over on the Paine's website and Dr. Paine isn't looking so good. Maybe he always looks like that but the man appeared to be overtly pale, thin and drawn. I hope he's not either seriously ill or depressed. Then again if I'd given up a medical career for the Gothard horse and pony show I'd be suicidal. I don't know how Gothard could have approved of that. Dr. Paine would have been a bigger asset if he'd kept his medical practice. He might have been able to assist Gil, Kelly and their brood in their medical needs rather than the state of Tennessee having to foot the bill.

[Tangy Bee]

I thought Dr. Paine was a physician at a prison. I know some of his older sons work, but what do the older young women do? Have they missionaries or been on some of those Gothard Journeys? Got be tough having to support adults and kids.

[Black Aliss]

I wouldn't be surprised if the getting to know one another stage came with a lot of fighting, though. They're two people who, for all intents and purposes, were kind of thrown together in a house with this fanciful idea of how things should be, and now they have to make it work. They don't have the option in their religion of "oh fuck, I married the wrong person", nor did they have the option of really, deeply getting to know each other before tying the knot.

At least he's trying (or at least it appears like he's trying). Hopefully she's putting in some effort as well.

I always had the impression that Erin is pretty high-maintenance. If Chad's mother is the submissive servant's-heart type, he may have had very different expectations of what married life would be like. He wouldn't be the first person to be surprised like that.

[clarinetpower]

I am glad her husband is willing to deal with something he doesn't like. Sounds like at least she married someone halfway decent. Her style doesn't surprise me. You can see it in her hair. I guess I'm more surprised at the lack of furniture covered in cabbage rose prints and doilies on the end tables. I have conservative family members who also have a pink/peach/floral/lace/brass/gold/glass/crystal theme to their homes. It makes me want to run screaming for the hills, but it makes them happy, so whatever. They're not big fans of my home, which is a mix of traditional and mod with some medieval thrown in. Pft. I don't care. We like it. And we have lots and lots and lots of books.

My husband has actually requested a pink bedroom. I did not submit. Closest I got was lavender, and I was sick of that pretty fast. Currently we are planning for a soft yellow, but that's due to the lack of light and the soul-sucking taupe the builder sprayed every room. There will be no mosquito netting or shabby chic. I hate frilly old crap. I am always surprised Target still sells it, but it must make money because it's been there for eons.

And I have an ex who was a manly guy but loved lace. Of course, he liked it best on a black bra that quickly came off... ;)(Yes! I went to college! And I did not marry as a pure-as-driven-snow virgin! Horrors!!!)

[maia sayet]

That is so creepy. What, do they think the feminist ninjas are going to kidnap their kids and turn them gay?

Someone should pitch this show to TBN as original programming.

[nausicaa]

I feel the need to search youtube for that now :) what was the name of the video?

Go to YouTube and search "Duggars Bates" and a playlist will come up with all of the 18K&C episodes that feature the Bates. I could have sworn they did it in the very first episode they feature in? It also may have been the first episode of United Bates of America. I had a Bates binge last week during some snow days and honestly cannot remember at this point. I do know I saw them file out of their house that way onto the front porch.

[milkncookies76]

well,look what they did w the free Christian clinic they used for Kelly's pregnancies.I've always thought something like that was meant for young ppl who are having a hard time starting out and need medical care,not for an older couple who already have kids in the double-digits and still expect a free ob. Dr and free clinic care.jmo though.

And yet they're anti Obama care. How hypocritical of them. :pull-hair:

[PurpleSheepleEater]

I have a different take on all this "Chad must really love her" stuff. From what I've observed with many a young married fundie couple they are under an enormous amount of pressure to make sure that no one knows anything near how bad any problems they are having might be. I really feel for Erin. I know lots of girls who were like her who were completely terrified of sex and were completely lonely and bored once they were married. The pressure to have those perfectly coordinated theme rooms, to have everything clean, to be beautiful for their husbands at all moments, it's a lot to handle for girls who have been only surrounded by and allowed to confide in other girls their entire lives. Anyway, the fact that Chad says there are adjustments is actually kind of a red flag for me, because I think if he's willing to say things are a little rough then in reality it's probably extremely rough. Fundies are usually not forthcoming with problems at all, it should be all "Jesus set us up and we are so happy and THANKYOUJESUS". That's the party line. I'm sure he loves her. But I'm also thinking that if he's saying what he's saying he's going to get a "You need to buck up and be the man of the house and control your woman" speech from someone pretty soon and that will only drive them to hide whatever issues there are even more.

The fake in these relationships is usually pretty thick. Then they have babies and have to pretend that is the best thing ever. The reality is often hidden behind closed doors while women become sadder and men become more demanding. I think whatever we see with the Duggars and the Bates and all the rest of them is the prettiest most polished thing they can come up with and is very far removed from their reality. I can't help but feel sorry for Chad and Erin. They have no idea what it's like to search and find someone they actually want to be with. They have never been empowered enough to be in a relationship they could end without repercussion, they are stuck now, for life, because Jesus. It will take them years of adjustment to find true happiness if they ever actually do. The way these families strip their kids of self discovery is terrible. I find it hard to find anything genuine or sweet in any of it.

[lillybeth]

Go to YouTube and search "Duggars Bates" and a playlist will come up with all of the 18K&C episodes that feature the Bates. I could have sworn they did it in the very first episode they feature in? It also may have been the first episode of United Bates of America. I had a Bates binge last week during some snow days and honestly cannot remember at this point. I do know I saw them file out of their house that way onto the front porch.

So, I tried this ... and what I came across was actually the Duggars doings this in their pre-roll (look at top right) youtu.be/y7BU8uI7SYE?t=1m37s

I'm sure the bates probably also do this somewhere, haven't come across it yet.

ETA . . and then I found myself rewatching Josh's proposal to Anna. Oh man that was awkward. It just seems to be so like "well, this is the next step," and missing the whole "I'm so in love with you, I want to spend the rest of my life with you" bit. So bad. So very, very, bad.

[scc12]

I have a different take on all this "Chad must really love her" stuff. From what I've observed with many a young married fundie couple they are under an enormous amount of pressure to make sure that no one knows anything near how bad any problems they are having might be. I really feel for Erin. I know lots of girls who were like her who were completely terrified of sex and were completely lonely and bored once they were married. The pressure to have those perfectly coordinated theme rooms, to have everything clean, to be beautiful for their husbands at all moments, it's a lot to handle for girls who have been only surrounded by and allowed to confide in other girls their entire lives. Anyway, the fact that Chad says there are adjustments is actually kind of a red flag for me, because I think if he's willing to say things are a little rough then in reality it's probably extremely rough. Fundies are usually not forthcoming with problems at all, it should be all "Jesus set us up and we are so happy and THANKYOUJESUS". That's the party line. I'm sure he loves her. But I'm also thinking that if he's saying what he's saying he's going to get a "You need to buck up and be the man of the house and control your woman" speech from someone pretty soon and that will only drive them to hide whatever issues there are even more.

The fake in these relationships is usually pretty thick. Then they have babies and have to pretend that is the best thing ever. The reality is often hidden behind closed doors while women become sadder and men become more demanding. I think whatever we see with the Duggars and the Bates and all the rest of them is the prettiest most polished thing they can come up with and is very far removed from their reality. I can't help but feel sorry for Chad and Erin. They have no idea what it's like to search and find someone they actually want to be with. They have never been empowered enough to be in a relationship they could end without repercussion, they are stuck now, for life, because Jesus. It will take them years of adjustment to find true happiness if they ever actually do. The way these families strip their kids of self discovery is terrible. I find it hard to find anything genuine or sweet in any of it.

Good thoughts,and Erin strikes me as being emotionally immature for her age.I think her pink little girl room is a sign of that.If she'd been allowed to be out in the world more,she could've had some things to herself first,and then been able to blend into marriage on a better level.

For example, most women who want a pink princess type room would just save that for when they have their first daughter,and have their marital bedroom be on par with what both of them like on an adult level.

Hopefully she will adjust,I guess that's the best they can hope for.I do hope they wait to have children.It takes a lot of maturity for that,and Erin doesn't strike me as being ready for it just yet.That is only my opinion though.

[lilith]

There's no way they are deliberately waiting to have children - Gothard was at the wedding, I have no doubt they promised to leave their family planning in god's hands and joyfully receive any blessings he sends.

Erin would never ask a dr for a script for the pill even if she desperately wanted to - she's been taught that its the same as having an abortion and that by asking she would be declaring her intentions to kill her babies.

And I don't see Chad buying condoms, especially in an area where everyone knows the Bates.

If they don't get pregnant soon it's either NFP (unlikely), abstinence, or lack of fertility. None of which I consider likely.

[nokidsmom]

Good thoughts,and Erin strikes me as being emotionally immature for her age.I think her pink little girl room is a sign of that.If she'd been allowed to be out in the world more,she could've had some things to herself first,and then been able to blend into marriage on a better level.

For example, most women who want a pink princess type room would just save that for when they have their first daughter,and have their marital bedroom be on par with what both of them like on an adult level.

Hopefully she will adjust,I guess that's the best they can hope for.I do hope they wait to have children.It takes a lot of maturity for that,and Erin doesn't strike me as being ready for it just yet.That is only my opinion though.

Agree with a lot of what you wrote, PurpleSheepleEater. While I do think that Chad really does love Erin, I did find it pretty telling that he admitted to there being adjustments. While he might simply being honest, still it's a departure from all the typical "whee, I am with my soulmate and everything's just peachy" talk you hear from newly married young fundies who really are going through the "get to know you" stage of dating but while married. And from a marriage of fundie royalty to boot. Wonder if he will get the "buck up and be man of the house" speech if he hasn't already.

In a way I am not surprised that there are difficulties. Erin does come across as rather immature for her age. She was the pretty and talented one who got a lot of attention and is used to having a lot of people around. Because of that I suspect that newly married life is very, very lonely for her on top off all the household responsibilities she has to assume. It was apparent that she probably didn't know much about keeping a home as evidenced her being taught to cook before her wedding, which is a bit surprising given she was raised to be a helpmeet. She was not allowed to know anything about sex much less do anything sexual before her marriage or even anything as innocent as kissing, or see a gynecologist, or be educated about birth control / women's health issues. I can imagine that she, like a lot of fundie girls, must have been terrified of sex, probably making that first experience traumatic.

Their situation is so loaded down with expectations of if they follow all the rules, then life will be perfect. When it doesn't, and this will happen more often than not, they have no way of trying to work out the problems in any kind of satisfying or healthy way. Will they find happiness? Maybe, but it's clearly not happening now and Chad strikes me as realizing that he signed up for more than he imagined.

ETA: by contrast, I find Whit and Zach appearing genuinely more happy. And I suspect it's been because they both had some experiences before they met each other. Zach did have his failed courtship and Whit was not raised fundie plus she went after Zach so she's probably has had her share of crushes, actually meeting boys and maybe a kiss or two before. Even if they both go the fundie route rather than fundie-lite, one can't change those past experiences and neither appears sorry for those either.

[apple1]

Mirandae...first of all, thanks for sharing. Second, do they give the impression of being "poor"? I'm trying to understand how they can afford to send two sons on a mission to Asia and eat steak out (unless it's a really inexpensive place, I'm unfamiliar with it), yet draw the line on paying tips.

Edited because I hadn't finished the thread and it had already been said.

Steak N Shake does have really good shakes (IMO).

[docmom]

She was not allowed to know anything about sex much less do anything sexual before her marriage or even anything as innocent as kissing, or see a gynecologist, or be educated about birth control / women's health issues. I can imagine that she, like a lot of fundie girls, must have been terrified of sex, probably making that first experience traumatic.

This. Sex for the first time can be scary even if you do know what to expect. I suspect the fundie girls are told about the actual act and given a whole lot of flowery language about tenderness and love and how wonderful sex is. The first time, for many people and especially for two people who are both inexperienced, is often not wonderful and might even be quite painful for the woman. The fundie girls probably wonder what is wrong with them and worry about having to have a lot of sex to satisfy their marital duties thus perpetuating the cycle.