The Demise of VF & Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 5

[twin2]

So I was going through the VF sites to today to see what is up. Went over the the Christian Mens Titanic Society Page, and alas it is gone due to the closing of VF ministries.

titanicsociety.com/

Not too long ago, Dougie turned over the reigns of this money making scheme ministry to the young JT and knighted him the new President. I truly wonder what his sons will do now that the father has flushed their cherry picked fortunes down the shitter.

[Marian the Librarian]

Katie Botkin strikes again. Check out this essay, entitled "Dear Prudence," posted yesterday on her blog. She tagged it "divorce," so I don't think it was written for Hero...but it could have been.

I have seen you struggle from afar for a long time. I know you are sad, with the kind of sadness that eats into your psyche and erodes it, that the rust of what was falls away from you in fine, brittle pieces. I know what it is, that sadness.

So because of this, I wanted to offer you a thought for this new year.

Your soul is yours to safeguard. It does not belong to anyone else on this earth. Take it back from him, take it back from what you have heard for so long — that a woman is not fit for shepherding souls, or for learning the great mysteries behind her own skin.

Nobody can take your power from you. You and you alone can stand bare before the mirror and stare hard enough to see the beauty and the real flaws — hard enough to see the real flaws, soft enough that you know you can rise above them, work with them, overcome them. You and you alone can come to the place where you no longer see his words, their words, when you look at yourself in the mirror. When the sight of you doesn’t remind you of all the ways he said you failed, but instead reminds you of what is, apart from him, after him.

Be kind to yourself. It is not easy. You have heard it so often, so loudly, for so long: you are less than. Less than, always, no matter what you did. His glances outward, his emotional distance, his physical absence all screamed it even when he didn’t say it. He wanted you to take responsibility for his failings, to bear their burden, because he was not strong enough. He was weaker than you, much, much, weaker than you.

You are re-learning now that you are lovely, that you are intelligent on many levels, that you work hard and that this dark time will pass. You are re-learning that it is not failure to ask for help, that people are willing to help, that people love you even when you do fail. Your values were strong, though perhaps misplaced. Do not discount how tenacious and passionate you were to live by them. They speak to your strength, not just to what might have been, if only you had known.

Live your life, as it was, as it is. Be here, where it counts, and always hold your well-learned mistrust with an open hand, where someone can snatch it away from you easily.

[Coconut Flan]

Very interesting. Good for Katie.

[Marian the Librarian]

It looks like our boy groom was one of Dougie's VF general-track interns in 2010. I can't get the pic to copy here, but I'm pretty sure that's him on the right.

visionforum.com/about/opportunities/internships/default.aspx

[DomWackTroll]

Katie Botkin strikes again. Check out this essay, entitled "Dear Prudence," posted yesterday on her blog. She tagged it "divorce," so I don't think it was written for Hero

What if it's written for Beall?!!

[Marian the Librarian]

What if it's written for Beall?!!

Good point, that!! :P

[NurseNell]

What if it's written for Beall?!!

That is who came immediately to my mind!

[WonderingInWA]

I certainly think the Katie Botkin piece is written for Beall.

Also, good find, Marian, on the intern. There's something about his appearance that gives me the squicks and it's not just because I saw those awful kissing photos of his wedding. Can't put my finger on it. He's Napoleon Dynamite (as a previous poster said) but there's something else, too.

[hoipolloi]

Oh, crap.

Every time I think that TW Eston has reached rock bottom in my opinion he manages to sink even lower. :angry-steamingears: :angry-fire: :angry-screaming: :angry-teeth: :angry-cussing:

His big revelation in the latest post is that an older married man at BCA impregnated a 17 year old back in 2004. She was shamed before the congregation but the man, per TW, was never identified nor reprimanded and is still a member of the community in good standing. BCA really is/was a den of swinging, sexual misconduct, and rampant infidelity. Amazing that the parents of the girl did not leave the church. Amazing that no-one seems to have asked who the father was. Even more amazing that, knowing this, Jen made such persistent efforts to rejoin the BCA community.

More and more sleazy innuendo.

Yes, this is hypocritical, but WTF?!! TW, you're claiming that yet another sheltered 17 year old girl was victimized by an older married man at BCA and that isn't the point? You don't have the balls to name the man, or tell us your identity, but continue to speculate and gossip away. It is bloody destructive!

BCA, at it's largest, seemed to consist of only 25-30 families. Now, according to TW, between 8 and 12 families left because they were disgusted by his supposed "cougar." That leaves somewhere between 13 and 22 men he is pointing his finger at here. I really do wonder when someone will sue.

Thank you, and ITA.

TW Eston - you're an asshole of cosmic proportions and a big, fat coward. Chances are that the father of the 17-year-old's child is a wealthy and/or influential man in fundie circles - like Jim Leininger the mystery man is a person TW Eston is too chickenshit to name or offend.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I hope its for Beall. She should divorce Doug, he doesn't deserve to stay with her after he cheated. He should suffer the consequences of his actions.

[Arete]

Thank you, and ITA.

TW Eston - you're an asshole of cosmic proportions and a big, fat coward. Chances are that the father of the 17-year-old's child is a wealthy and/or influential man in fundie circles - like Jim Leininger the mystery man is a person TW Eston is too chickenshit to name or offend.

Preach, sisters!

[Mary C Doates]

It looks like our boy groom was one of Dougie's VF general-track interns in 2010. I can't get the pic to copy here, but I'm pretty sure that's him on the right.

visionforum.com/about/opportunities/internships/default.aspx

"General-track intern"--is that for the men whose stances are insufficiently wide-based or who aren't coördinated enough to wield a sword without accidentally stabbing themselves? Perhaps they were relegated to membership in the Tepid Journeys Society.

Doug Phillips is a tool.

[nelliebelle1197]

I got to the photo in which someone was putting eye shadow on the approximately 5-year-old flower girl, and my brain shorted out. Really? Really?

I couldn't get past the 11 year old groom and the 37 year old bride. How old is that Jon kid??

[Queen Of Hearts]

On Jen's Jems someone ass if Doug Phillips (is a Tool) could be the father of the baby mentioned in TW's latest blog post. TW responds that it isn't Doug and the child has a distinct appearance that narrows down the list of potential fathers considerably. Reading that, all I can think of is that the father was black or Hispanic. How many such families are members of BCA? Is it possible the husband in question is Hero's father?

[nelliebelle1197]

On Jen's Jems someone ass if Doug Phillips (is a Tool) could be the father of the baby mentioned in TW's latest blog post. TW responds that it isn't Doug and the child has a distinct appearance that narrows down the list of potential fathers considerably. Reading that, all I can think of is that the father was black or Hispanic. How many such families are members of BCA? Is it possible the husband in question is Hero's father?

I thought of BRADRICK! ;0

[debrand]

I thought of BRADRICK! ;0

I did too! Bradrick's children look a lot like him. However, there are probably other members of Boerne Church that could be candidates.Of course, the allegation might be completely fake.

Over on the Spiritual Sounding Board they are discussing RC Sproul Jr.and his alleged wife spanking. Because they are mainly using Jen's Gems as a source, I am not certain how accurate their information is. However, the writer did say that he/she has been hearing rumors about non consensual wife spanking for along time. If the allegations are not true, it is very cruel to make them public without at least stating that they could be false. I might dislike Sproul Jr but he has young children who lost their mother. I don't have any desire to cause them more pain. Could some of this gossip get people sued? I don't know why but the spanking aspect seems unlikely to me. It sounds like a salacious rumor that has enough aspects of sexuality and abuse to make it interesting.

[SoybeanQueen]

That pic of the bride kissing her dad made me feel sick to my stomach. It looks like they're about to kiss not just on the mouth, but with open mouths. There's NOTHING fatherly about slipping your daughter the tongue.

She looks more fresh-faced in a lot of the formal shots, but there are few without as much retouching on her face. There's a huuuuge difference in how old she looks on the not-retouched pics. Dang. If she's under 30 she either had serious skin damage previously or has less-than-stellar skin genes.

I'm sure there are a great many people who find it quite funny, but I wouldn't want staged pics of my groom being chased down by the attendants and dragged back to the wedding. If marriage is so sacred, why are they mocking the seriousness with that sort of photo?

[WonderingInWA]

That pic of the bride kissing her dad made me feel sick to my stomach. It looks like they're about to kiss not just on the mouth, but with open mouths. There's NOTHING fatherly about slipping your daughter the tongue.

She looks more fresh-faced in a lot of the formal shots, but there are few without as much retouching on her face. There's a huuuuge difference in how old she looks on the not-retouched pics. Dang. If she's under 30 she either had serious skin damage previously or has less-than-stellar skin genes.

I'm sure there are a great many people who find it quite funny, but I wouldn't want staged pics of my groom being chased down by the attendants and dragged back to the wedding. If marriage is so sacred, why are they mocking the seriousness with that sort of photo?

No kidding about the tongue thing. I had to zoom in on that photo to figure out what was going on there. There is no question that looked more intimate than I certainly hope it was meant.

And one of my favorites of the groom is his groomsmen holding his limbs, suspended supine about 4 feet off the ground, and appearing he was on the rack and ready to be eviscerated. Nothing says "Congratulations on your wedding day!" like a good disembowelment of the groom! I'm guessing he narrowly escaped that torture.

[uber frau]

I thought of BRADRICK! ;0

Providing this rumour is true (and that's a whacking great if, it can't be Bradrick! He would have been only about 20 (and still unmarried) in 2004.

But you're right that the man needn't be black or Hispanic. There are plenty of 'distinctive' faces- Geoff Botkin is another example-but it's actually pretty easy to see shared traits in children an their parents.

TBH, I really doubt this little open secret needed any 'distinctive' features or not. Here's a far more likely scenario: the 17 yo gets pregnant and confesses to a confidant (either her mother or her best friend) and, thanks to the fundie gossip grapevine, every man, woman, child and dog knows who she'd been hanging around with and who the likely father is within 8 hours. She gets hauled over the coals as a 'fallen woman' but the elders at BCA don't bother with the man. Whether they actively don't care, they're afraid of the fall-out, or convince themselves that there's no proof and they don't want to damage a man's reputation over speculation, they choose not to 'discipline' the man. But they are 99.9% sure who it is. The fact that the child and it's father have commonalities is probably more of a confirmation of their preexisting bias than any great revelation.

And, just for fun, I've heard of many instances where someone presumes a parent/child relationship is biological and finds all sorts of facial similarities. Some characteristics are behavioural and can be passed between non bio parent and child, but facial features obviously can't. Just because a bystander sees similarities doesn't mean that they are there. Sometimes it's simply confirmation bias.

[Evil Feminist]

Over on the Spiritual Sounding Board they are discussing RC Sproul Jr.and his alleged wife spanking. Because they are mainly using Jen's Gems as a source, I am not certain how accurate their information is. However, the writer did say that he/she has been hearing rumors about non consensual wife spanking for along time. If the allegations are not true, it is very cruel to make them public without at least stating that they could be false. I might dislike Sproul Jr but he has young children who lost their mother. I don't have any desire to cause them more pain. Could some of this gossip get people sued? I don't know why but the spanking aspect seems unlikely to me. It sounds like a salacious rumor that has enough aspects of sexuality and abuse to make it interesting.

No clue if its true or not about RC Sproul. But, I do know that wife spanking could happen in a patriarchal/christian home. Back during my days as a collegeplus student, another student shared a copy of a online chat with me, that she had with several other students about the topic. Another student, who otherwise seems fairly normal and is pretty well known in the CP student circle, had no idea that there was anything wrong or unbiblical about physically disciplining a wife to teach her how to be a better person. Apparently this student's parents practiced this, so the kids thought it was right and normal. The other students were trying to reason with the student and explain that while spanking children was totally biblical, disciplining your wife was absolutely not. So the comments from Jen's Gems may just be rumor, but it can happen in these kinds of families.

I know this probably sounds like another rumor, but since it was a private chat, I'm not sure how much I can reveal.

[salex]

That pic of the bride kissing her dad made me feel sick to my stomach. It looks like they're about to kiss not just on the mouth, but with open mouths. There's NOTHING fatherly about slipping your daughter the tongue.

She looks more fresh-faced in a lot of the formal shots, but there are few without as much retouching on her face. There's a huuuuge difference in how old she looks on the not-retouched pics. Dang. If she's under 30 she either had serious skin damage previously or has less-than-stellar skin genes.

I'm sure there are a great many people who find it quite funny, but I wouldn't want staged pics of my groom being chased down by the attendants and dragged back to the wedding. If marriage is so sacred, why are they mocking the seriousness with that sort of photo?

I agree with every point.... the open mouth daddy kiss is weird. The pic of her and her sister(??) shows some pretty bad crowsfeet for a younger woman. But, per their blog, They lived in an rv and a tent for the first year or more that they lived in TX. She may have been in the sun without sunscreen a lot! And the whole groom trying to escape joke has been around forever, and frankly, I never thought it was funny even when I was a kid. I would think it would be an offense to the fathers if they had a courtship. THen again, often whatever pictures are taken are what the photographer does as part of his regular repertoire.

[debrand]

That pic of the bride kissing her dad made me feel sick to my stomach. It looks like they're about to kiss not just on the mouth, but with open mouths. There's NOTHING fatherly about slipping your daughter the tongue.

She looks more fresh-faced in a lot of the formal shots, but there are few without as much retouching on her face. There's a huuuuge difference in how old she looks on the not-retouched pics. Dang. If she's under 30 she either had serious skin damage previously or has less-than-stellar skin genes.

I'm sure there are a great many people who find it quite funny, but I wouldn't want staged pics of my groom being chased down by the attendants and dragged back to the wedding. If marriage is so sacred, why are they mocking the seriousness with that sort of photo?

Oh my, I didn't realize he was being chased. I thought that the photographer snapped photos of everything,including the groom and his attendants running for some bizarre reason. I've never found the ball and chain cake toppers funny either.

I want to know the story behind these two. Either one could have married someone closer to their age and maturity. The groom acts his age and I can't see either this particular bride being happy with a hyperactive 18 year old or him being happy with someone who wants him to be more serious. Of course, it is possible that they married for love. People sometimes fall in love with their opposites and I've known a couple of successful marriages in which the bride was older than the groom. But in this case, these two just don't seem to match.She is so dignified and he is goofy. It might not be such a problem in a marriage of equals if the wife is more mature than her groom but in this culture, the groom is supposed to be the head of the bride. I hope that they weren't pressured to marry; however, if they were pressured to marry, why would they be pressured to marry each other.

The worst wedding scenario I have ever seen a photographer set up was at my brother's wedding. My brother and my SIL paid for the wedding. Yet the wedding photographer told my FIL to pose with his pockets out like the wedding had left him broke. My brother had left the area to care for his infant daughter so he missed the staged photo or the fact that his inlaws didn't refuse to take that particular photo.

[danvillebelle]

Aaaaand the emails from the companies that VF sold their list to begin. I just got one from a company called Christian Reader trying to sell me a book about George Washington, but the email still shows as coming from Vision Forum.

Doug Phillips is a Tool.

[Mary C Doates]

Aaaaand the emails from the companies that VF sold their list to begin. I just got one from a company called Christian Reader trying to sell me a book about George Washington, but the email still shows as coming from Vision Forum.

Doug Phillips is a Tool.

Yes, I've been getting daily emails purporting to be from VF, advertising different "Christian" books, movies and other crap. Thanks, Doug Phillips, you tool!

[hoipolloi]

I want to know the story behind these two. Either one could have married someone closer to their age and maturity. The groom acts his age and I can't see either this particular bride being happy with a hyperactive 18 year old or him being happy with someone who wants him to be more serious. Of course, it is possible that they married for love. People sometimes fall in love with their opposites and I've known a couple of successful marriages in which the bride was older than the groom. But in this case, these two just don't seem to match.She is so dignified and he is goofy. It might not be such a problem in a marriage of equals if the wife is more mature than her groom but in this culture, the groom is supposed to be the head of the bride. I hope that they weren't pressured to marry; however, if they were pressured to marry, why would they be pressured to marry each other.

Perhaps it's a matter of yet another fundie spinster getting desperate, running out of "godly men" (or never having any willing to go through Daddy to get to her), and settling for the first minimally acceptable male who comes along. After all, Blair Brown, at about age 23, ended up with a 17-year-old groom even though you'd think as a daughter of the NCFIC-meister, Scott Brown, she'd have her pick of "godly men" who were at least closer in age.

Ultimately, the patri-arses of the "Church of Daddy Said So" don't seem to have a good track record in successfully carrying out their doctrines bullshit involving courtship & marriage - viz., Botkinettes, Sarah Maxwell, the Ah the Lifers (and I do mean "lifers"), and so on.