The Demise of VF & Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 5

[Cleopatra7]

It seems contradictory for these quiverfull Calvinists to say that children are a blessing on one hand (and that we must have as many of them as possible) and then talk about how babies are sinful and willful. I don't think the original Puritans held this dichotomy, but I also don't think they had such a romanticized view of the joys of childbirth or childrearing the way their modern counterparts do.

[RosyDaisy]

Hitting a baby? Let me guess, she's read TTUAC. She a fucking monster!

[MamaJunebug]

Many(most, I think) Christians believe in an age of accountability before which a child is not really able to sin.

... (snip)

Working from memory, here - and I don't mean to hijack this thread away from dogging Doug - the age of accountability is not used by Lutherans, possibly neither by Catholics nor Episcopalians, though I can't say the last two with any confidence.

It's been explained to me, by those who acknowledge it, as the age at which a child can make a decision for Christ. So it also makes sense for those who believe in it, that it's when a child can understand s/he's capable of sin.

That's really complicating matters, IMHO. The way I was raised - and later taught - is that because of original sin, we always have the capacity to sin. And that we do it from little on up, not because we're inherently vicious, but because it's part of us. Shrug, it-is-what-it-is kind of thought. As natural as a baby not being able to sit down on a toilet to void and doing it in diapers, instead.

So how is it handled by thinking Christians who ascribe to the doctrine of original sin? Well, the parents gently - this is key, G-E-N-T-L-Y - redirect the toddler's bad actions. Depending on the child's age and the danger inherent in their misdeed, explain what's not right and what is right.

Can we expunge the willfulness and sin-inclination from anybody? No! That's the point of original sin - it's always with us. What we can do is to expand the child's awareness, help her mold her behavior to the good. We're only perfect through Christ's redemptive work.

Just writing this, I realize that's another false goal/"principle" that Doug and Scott and their ilk set out in front of their followers: Produce perfect kids, it can be done if you're good enough! Folks will never achieve that. Doug and Scott haven't achieved that, they can't!!!! Aurgh!!!! :pull-hair: The ways in which they can distract the unwitting from the real message, keep them on a hopeless treadmill of conference$ and publication$ and advance$ and dad-daughter day$ --- the jerk$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[uber frau]

Oh MJB (insert exasperated sigh), your problem is that your viewpoint is just too rational. *

*this is worse since you're a female. Females are not supposed to *think*, they're just supposed to obey. Also, you're just too soft and empathetic, dare I say even motherly.

[samithemage]

Working from memory, here - and I don't mean to hijack this thread away from dogging Doug - the age of accountability is not used by Lutherans, possibly neither by Catholics nor Episcopalians, though I can't say the last two with *snip*

As a cradle catholic, I was definitely taught about an age of accountability (not sure if that was the term used), but sacramentally, you can't make your first confession before the age of seven, because before that, you aren't considered capable of willful sin.

[MamaJunebug]

As a cradle catholic, I was definitely taught about an age of accountability (not sure if that was the term used), but sacramentally, you can't make your first confession before the age of seven, because before that, you aren't considered capable of willful sin.

Thanks, samitheimage. I hadn't known that and stand corrected.

uber frau, you're my favorite! ;) Don't tell the others!!! :shhh:

[anniebgood]

A little OT but was the judge of Best In Show last night at Westminster, the wife of Jim Leininger? Betty Regina Leininger? Draped in jewels and a southern accent. From Texas.

[DomWackTroll]

A little OT but was the judge of Best In Show last night at Westminster, the wife of Jim Leininger? Betty Regina Leininger? Draped in jewels and a southern accent. From Texas.

I saw that and immediately wondered, too!

ETA: I'm looking at the judge's Facebook page and one of her "Likes" is the film Ma Mere-- the story of an incestuous mother/son relationship-- so I'm going to guess she is not the wife of James Leininger. But related in some other way, perhaps?

facebook.com/bettyregina.leininger/likes

[Marian the Librarian]

Jim Leininger's wife's name is Cecilia. Betty Regina Leininger hails from Newfoundland, Canada, per this article:

thetelegram.com/News/Local/2013-09-12/article-3386545/Newfoundlander-to-judge-at-world%26rsquo%3Bs-top-dog-show/1

Article says she's divorced, so perhaps there's a family-connection-by-marriage...someone would have to do some deep genealogy digging.

(Edited one time, because I really do know how to spell "Newfoundland!")

[thoughtful]

In my puttering about online, I have found out that Leininger is a fairly common name. I had found the dog show lady at one point.

[happy atheist]

Part 6: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20934