The Demise of VF & Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 5

[nausicaa]

A couple of years ago a friend of mine's daughter got married in an LDS temple. All I saw were the photos outside afterward, but she wore hot pink snowboarding boots underneath her gown. I wouldn't think the temple would have allowed that, would they?

No, she definitely changed into the pink snow boots afterward.

All garments that are worn in the temple must be completely white (including shoes), display a certain level of modesty, and (I think) must be made by the LDS church and can be bought in a souvenir/clothing shop located in the bottom level of any LDS temple. (They actually don't require a temple recommend to enter that store and it is really interesting to visit btw. Though you do need a temple recommend to buy any of the undergarments.)

Here's an example of the temple gowns LDS women wear whenever they are in the temple:

http://www.adressyoccasion.com/TempleDresses

The bride and groom (and any other endowed Mormons attending the ceremony) enter the temple in their wedding garb, and then enter a locker room area where they change into their temple clothing. They change back before they leave. This is done whenever someone visits the temple, even on their wedding day.

I have heard some brides say that one can wear their wedding dress OVER their temple dress during the ceremony, but I'm not sure. Any Mormons on the board who can confirm this?

I believe the veil cannot be worn at all. Pink snow boots would definitely be a no-no during the sealing ceremony.

[nausicaa]

They have special shoes that are only worn in the temple. One of my friends had a temple marriage a few years ago. She decided to wear a temple dress instead of her wedding dress because she would be required to cover the sequins. She did have pictures taken outside of the temple after the ceremony in her wedding dress.

Whoops, sorry about the cross post. And your answer was much more succinct than mine!

[Palimpsest]

Katie's blog entry seemed to me like it was written to Hero. But hey – could be to Beall too. I think a lot of women exiting abusive situations would find encouragement in it.

If Katie had not tagged it "divorce" I might be more on the Hero band-wagon. It could be addressed to both of them though.

And, yes, it is very well written, kind, empowering and encouraging to any woman trying to get out of an abusive relationship. Go Katie Botkin!

[yewnique]

Thanks. Can't say that I understand it, but I'm (obviously) not from Texas.

I'm not from Texas either, but I thought the boots looked delightful and fun!

[yetanothermeg]

Anybody else wondering where Dougie and family might be moving to? I confess, I am a little jealous of the neighbor lady who is commenting about watching Dougie prance around in his costumes all these years. It would certainly make breakfast more interesting, that's for sure.

[SheWoreLemon]

I'm trying to track down Jon Maness's age. But in the meantime--where is Erin Bates' new husband from, and what is his name? There are some Paines that are friends of the Maness family (possibly more connections between ATI and Vision Forum?)

[SheWoreLemon]

More info about "general track" interns (John Maness was a general track intern). http://www.visionforum.com/about/opport ... fault.aspx

Copying and pasting the relevant info in case that page goes down. (Internships were also offered in creative arts and IT).

"For the past several years, Vision Forum’s internship programs have provided dozens of young men with a unique opportunity to gain practical business skills, to build friendships with like-minded believers, to strengthen their worldviews, and to serve in the cause of Christ. Our general track exposes interns to a wide range of opportunities to serve the Lord with us at Vision Forum. Interns in the general track will typically gain experience in the operations of warehousing, customer service, record-keeping, marketing, and general business. Interns may also be assigned special research projects and receive additional instruction in classroom and hands-on environments as well. Those who excel in their responsibilities may also receive employment opportunities with Vision Forum. A small monthly stipend will be granted to accepted applicants to assist with basic living expenses."

Seeing how Jon Maness was logistics coordinator for Burma in 2013, looks like he did get hired on with Vision Forum when his internship was over. So that pretty much confirms someone's earlier post, that he has lost his job 3 months after getting married.

List of other Vision Forum interns I found as I searched for more info about Jon's true age: (just sticking it here for general info and in case I stumble on these names as I poke around more!)

Micah Pogue 2009

Kurtis Amundson 2010 (still working on the Burma trip in 2013, along with his brother Kevin)

Benjamin Einwechter, Class of 2009, IT Track

Benjamin Lenz, class of 2012

Philip Bradrick, 2003, went on to become Doug's executive assistant and married Scott Brown's daughter Kelly.

Ben Serven 2009 or 2010 (brother of Rebecca who married Stephen Loomis)

Benjamin Lenz 2012 (worked the 2013 Burma trip with brother Charles Lenz).

Joshua Harris, 2005 general track (he and his brother did that stupid Rebelution modesty survey)

William Clayton, 2005 creative media track

Michael Billings 2005 general track (died in car accident in 2009--according to Jen's Gems this led his sister to become wild and sexually inappropriate)

Jordan Muela, 2005 general track

Nathaniel Darnell

C.S. Hayden pre 2007

Michael Fowl 2006

Tait Zimmerman 2006

[WonderingInWA]

More info about "general track" interns (John Maness was a general track intern). http://www.visionforum.com/about/opport ... fault.aspx

Copying and pasting the relevant info in case that page goes down. (Internships were also offered in creative arts and IT).

"For the past several years, Vision Forum’s internship programs have provided dozens of young men with a unique opportunity to gain practical business skills, to build friendships with like-minded believers, to strengthen their worldviews, and to serve in the cause of Christ. Our general track exposes interns to a wide range of opportunities to serve the Lord with us at Vision Forum. Interns in the general track will typically gain experience in the operations of warehousing, customer service, record-keeping, marketing, and general business. Interns may also be assigned special research projects and receive additional instruction in classroom and hands-on environments as well. Those who excel in their responsibilities may also receive employment opportunities with Vision Forum. A small monthly stipend will be granted to accepted applicants to assist with basic living expenses."

Seeing how Jon Maness was logistics coordinator for Burma in 2013, looks like he did get hired on with Vision Forum when his internship was over. So that pretty much confirms someone's earlier post, that he has lost his job 3 months after getting married.

List of other Vision Forum interns I found as I searched for more info about Jon's true age: (just sticking it here for general info and in case I stumble on these names as I poke around more!)

Micah Pogue 2009

Kurtis Amundson 2010 (still working on the Burma trip in 2013, along with his brother Kevin)

Benjamin Einwechter, Class of 2009, IT Track

Benjamin Lenz, class of 2012

Philip Bradrick, 2003, went on to become Doug's executive assistant and married Scott Brown's daughter Kelly.

Ben Serven 2009 or 2010 (brother of Rebecca who married Stephen Loomis)

Benjamin Lenz 2012 (worked the 2013 Burma trip with brother Charles Lenz).

Joshua Harris, 2005 general track (he and his brother did that stupid Rebelution modesty survey)

William Clayton, 2005 creative media track

Michael Billings 2005 general track (died in car accident in 2009--according to Jen's Gems this led his sister to become wild and sexually inappropriate)

Jordan Muela, 2005 general track

Nathaniel Darnell

C.S. Hayden pre 2007

Michael Fowl 2006

Tait Zimmerman 2006

Nope, that's Peter Bradrick, not Philip Bradrick.

[SheWoreLemon]

Well, after all that I was just able to find out as much as a previous poster: pretty much nothing about Jon's real age. I was hoping for something stating there was an age limit to be a Vision Forum intern, but no luck.

I did find out he is the fourth of 9 kids--the oldest sister and two elder brothers are already married. The little girl in the wedding pictures is his youngest sister, Amy.

But I did find out a possible addition to the unmarried fundies list--Ashley Seargent, Callan's eldest sister is still unmarried at age 30.

Engagement pictures of our couple, taken by another former Vision Forum intern, Kurtis Amundson, are here. https://plus.google.com/+KurtisAmundson/posts Note they got engaged on August 13, 2013 and were married only 2 months later? That's a fast engagement!

[mnwnwmwmn]

Katie's blog entry seemed to me like it was written to Hero. But hey – could be to Beall too. I think a lot of women exiting abusive situations would find encouragement in it.

Are we sure it wasn't written for Victoria? :whistle:

[Savoring Samsara]

No kidding about the tongue thing. I had to zoom in on that photo to figure out what was going on there. There is no question that looked more intimate than I certainly hope it was meant.

And one of my favorites of the groom is his groomsmen holding his limbs, suspended supine about 4 feet off the ground, and appearing he was on the rack and ready to be eviscerated. Nothing says "Congratulations on your wedding day!" like a good disembowelment of the groom! I'm guessing he narrowly escaped that torture.

The message that I took away from all those photos is that on your VF-approved wedding day, the menfolk get to run around having fun and taking silly photos while the ladies have to spend hours getting all prettified and then taking a few shots that are very formal and sedate.

[hoipolloi]

More info about "general track" interns (John Maness was a general track intern). http://www.visionforum.com/about/opport ... fault.aspx

Copying and pasting the relevant info in case that page goes down. (Internships were also offered in creative arts and IT).

List of other Vision Forum interns I found as I searched for more info about Jon's true age: (just sticking it here for general info and in case I stumble on these names as I poke around more!)

Micah Pogue 2009

Kurtis Amundson 2010 (still working on the Burma trip in 2013, along with his brother Kevin)

Benjamin Einwechter, Class of 2009, IT Track

Benjamin Lenz, class of 2012

Philip Bradrick, 2003, went on to become Doug's executive assistant and married Scott Brown's daughter Kelly.

Ben Serven 2009 or 2010 (brother of Rebecca who married Stephen Loomis)

Benjamin Lenz 2012 (worked the 2013 Burma trip with brother Charles Lenz).

Joshua Harris, 2005 general track (he and his brother did that stupid Rebelution modesty survey)

William Clayton, 2005 creative media track

Michael Billings 2005 general track (died in car accident in 2009--according to Jen's Gems this led his sister to become wild and sexually inappropriate)

Jordan Muela, 2005 general track

Nathaniel Darnell

C.S. Hayden pre 2007

Michael Fowl 2006

Tait Zimmerman 2006

Thanks for the compilation - good to have the info handy since its VF sources are likely to disappear. As previously noted, it's Peter Bradrick who was in the intern class of 2003 & then married Kelly Brown. Both Nathaniel Darnell & C.S. Hayden were in the same VF intern class, which they were pleased to call the First Brigade, as shown in this photo taken at Peter & Kelly's wedding in August 2006 (Darnell on the far right, Hayden on his right, & Bradrick! on his right):

[Palimpsest]

Thanks for the compilation - good to have the info handy since its VF sources are likely to disappear. As previously noted, it's Peter Bradrick who was in the intern class of 2003 & then married Kelly Brown. Both Nathaniel Darnell & C.S. Hayden were in the same VF intern class, which they were pleased to call the First Brigade, as shown in this photo taken at Peter & Kelly's wedding in August 2006 (Darnell on the far right, Hayden on his right, & Bradrick! on his right):

Kurtis Amundsen 2010 has lost his VF job too. He got engaged to Aubrey Lenz (sister of Benjamin 2012) in October. Kurtis and Benjamin were also intrepid explorers in Burma.

Kurtis had better get busy designing thank you cards again in order to afford a wife. The samples on his (very inactive) blog are quite pretty. kurtisamundson.com/biography

Not all past VF interns and Hazardous Journey Society members were employed at VF post their internships. Some seem to have set up their own businesses elsewhere or got jobs, like N. Darnell, JD.

[puddle]

Just a note about the intern list... Alex and Brett Harris did the modesty survey, not their older brother Josh. I'm pretty sure Josh was already married and working with CJ Mahaney by 2005. I am surprised any of them were interns though. I didn't know they had any connection to VF.

[DomWackTroll]

Wow, Kurtis is, um... artistic, as they used to call it.

[hoipolloi]

Just a note about the intern list... Alex and Brett Harris did the modesty survey, not their older brother Josh. I'm pretty sure Josh was already married and working with CJ Mahaney by 2005. I am surprised any of them were interns though. I didn't know they had any connection to VF.

Josh Harris was already far along on the ministry management track at SGM's Mother Ship, Covenant Life Church before 2005 so he was not a VF intern or involved in VF shite: covlife.org/about/pastors/joshua_harris

Re: the Harris twins, Josh's younger siblings. They also had/have their own ministry marketing scheme with the Rebelution stuff & never participated directly VF shite.

[thoughtful]

JT Philips, Ben Botkin, Charles and Joel Vernier, Skylar and Ryker Seargeant (brothers of the bride in the wedding previously discussed), Micah Neidhart, Benjamin Dorin, Steven, David and Joseph Bowman, Benjamin Einwechter, Micah Pogue, Christopher Gill, Stefan, and Jacob, Kirk and Clara (how’d she get in there?) Manteufel were all involved in the stunning piece of cinematic art being discussed on this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20546

Too bad Maness wasn't part of this group -- he would have been the icing on the cake (and perhaps might have injected some purposeful humor into the final product).

[DefraudedByPlaid]

She is his neice. You can count me in as a card carrying member of the Katie Botkin fan club.

I think that last post was certainly meant for Beall. Very kind, but also very frank. I'm feeling a bit dim because I usually agree with everything Katie says but the last paragraph doesn't quite make sense to me and I've read it several times:

Does she mean live your life as it was before Doug? As it is because you are separate from Doug and need to realise that?

Why hold your mistrust in an open hand? I'd advise hanging onto that mistrust as you move on (divorce Doug's sorry behind) so that you don't fall into that Patriarchal trap again. Having been in a horribly controlling marriage you are sadly a lot more vulnerable to falling into another one.

I read the mistrust line as "Hold onto your mistrust, but be open to letting someone prove it wrong."

[Sister Mozz]

I know everyone's trying to find out how old Jon Maness is, but does anyone know how old Callan is? I thought she looked younger in the engagement pictures.

[thoughtful]

I know everyone's trying to find out how old Jon Maness is, but does anyone know how old Callan is? I thought she looked younger in the engagement pictures.

Here's the "about" page on the family site (haven't read much, but I suspect they may deserve their own thread, if we haven't already got one) - look around the site and see what you find.

plymouthrockranch.com/blog/?page_id=143

ETA -- did a search, and we have discussed them before:

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... 05#p673205

but I didn't find a thread just for them.

[Sister Mozz]

Here's the "about" page on the family site (haven't read much, but I suspect they may deserve their own thread, if we haven't already got one) - look around the site and see what you find.

plymouthrockranch.com/blog/?page_id=143

ETA -- did a search, and we have discussed them before:

http://www.freejinger.org/forums/viewto ... 05#p673205

but I didn't find a thread just for them.

Thanks, thoughtful. The information I found at publiclibraries.com says she is 25.

[thoughtful]

Thanks, thoughtful.

You're welcome! :D

[Drunkenbutterfly]

Folks, go to Nolan Manteufel's FB. Fight with the Bradrick bros. Someone's pissed. Don't forget the :popcorn2:!

[Palimpsest]

Folks, go to Nolan Manteufel's FB. Fight with the Bradrick bros. Someone's pissed. Don't forget the :popcorn2:!

We need the large size for this :popcorn: :soda: :popcorn:

Micah Pogue and Jordan Muela are also joining in.

[thoughtful]

Folks, go to Nolan Manteufel's FB. Fight with the Bradrick bros. Someone's pissed. Don't forget the :popcorn2:!

Oh, dear. It's like a middle school fight with Bible quotes.

I want to go there and post "I know you are, but what am I? Matthew 7:3-5."

:D

Sadly, there is nothing in the Bible about one's mother wearing army boots.