SarahM has a BIG announcement on Monday!

[alysee]

I'm so glad that even though my mother was strict, she didn't force me to read bullshit like this (though what was even comparable in the 90s? I guess maybe the Mandie books? I had those but I was allowed to read other books.). I mean yes, Care Bears, Power Rangers, and My Little Pony were all evil and banned, along with Full House and Rugrats, but at least I could in general read whatever the hell I wanted. Grew up a block from the library so I really did read whatever I could get my hands on.

My parents were like this, banned TV and computer at home, but as long as the title didn't have sex demon or something weird like that, I could read whatever the hell I wanted.

[delilahdog11]

Finishing up the Dad/Mom Corner article and I have no idea what I just read. Here I thought that Arndt children were stunted, but the Maxwell "children" are just as stunted but only appear to be living in less of a fantasy world because they get out in the "world" via the dog and pony show. Instead of making movies. But how does Steve expect the boys in the family to behave as grown adults when they get married, if they aren't allowed to police their own Internet usage. Steve stated over and over that they access the Internet for their jobs, but they have to go running to their mom if they get to a banned site. How is that a productive use of time? How is that teaching them to make their own decisions and work through the process of how to make responsible choices? If this is how the children have been treated their whole lives than no of them is capable of being in an adult relationship and managing their own households.

I wonder how many other fundy kids are in the same boat as the Maxwell children? Meaning that growing up they weren't given the chance to grow and mature- to practice at being adults and learn how to be responsible for themselves- and then are shoved into a marriage and are now expected to run a house, raise children, and be in a relationship. I feel bad for their children and would be spouses. Learning how to cook, clean, and change diapers only the base level of raising children. Emotional maturity and a sense of self is more important, but I guess that doesn't matter because the end goal is to have as many children as possible because God's army needs soliders. Fundy marriages, as a gross generalization, must be a mess and probably fraught with emotional and physical abuse. Two children trying to deal with the stress of being perfect in the eyes of their fundy community, in the eyes of God while raising a ton of kids.

The Internet Corner just really triggered a response in me. I can't believe how they treat their children and how very little trust they place in their kids and in their own parenting. And Dougie's latest confession only serves to affirm their paranoia.

[salex]

OK, since I didn't grow up fundie, and have just watched an inlaw or two grow more and more fundie light over the years, I don't know how accurate I am, but I have observed that some things that seem to be growing in popularity in some Christian circles -- Full Quiver, Modesty for women (to protect the man) and Memorizing the whole Bible seemed to become more popular sort of as a way to "keep up with Islam" . I actually heard radio ministers talk about quiver full as a way to keep Christianity's population up, against the encroaching breeders of other religions. I've heard the "protect men from evil thoughts", which has long been one excuse used for burquas etc, and I heard of memorizing the Qu'ran before I heard of memorizing the whole Bible. Not to mention, the move of the term "inspired" word of God when referring to the Bible moving ever more toward "God Breathed" (to keep up with Mohammed getting it dictated from Gabriel???)

I've always listened to religious nutjobs on the radio off and on, always thinking "WTF?" but I have noticed these trends becoming ever more pronounced and I wonder if it is because they are playing holier than thow with Islam.

I also think the internet, while a wonderful tool, allows little pockets of nuttjobbery to large appearing ministries. Sort of like TV facilitated Oral Roberts move from itinerate tent faith healer to University "owner".

[treemom]

Ok I think the sda'ers need an AMA thread. Because of the phallic tie thing. I need to know

[Coconut Flan]

You get a bunch of Josh Duggars who binge on food, TV, internet time, gadgets, etc. They don't learn self-control growing up so they have none. That's why Stevehovah has to keep his clan within half a mile or so of his house so he can attempt to maintain control even after they move out. I hope I outlast Steve so I can see the result on his family of the loss of his overbearing control.

[thoughtful]

You get a bunch of Josh Duggars who binge on food, TV, internet time, gadgets, etc. They don't learn self-control growing up so they have none. That's why Stevehovah has to keep his clan within half a mile or so of his house so he can attempt to maintain control even after they move out.

Or they go the other direction and become too terrified to take two steps out of the house.

Either way, he's done so much damage.

[Rosie]

So who is Teri accountable to? Sounds like she can go whoever she wants. I don't for one minute believe Teri is in control over Stevie's internet. If so, she would never allow him to come here! We know he is here. "Boys" "girls", so disturbing....

I'm picturing Teri hovering over the computer at 3AM, looking from side to side as she surfs the web. She isn't accountable to anyone!

[Talitha Cumi]

That's exactly what I was taught also. (Former Seventh-day Adventist here. I don't think I've ever heard someone from a different denomination talk about the "time of trouble"...)

Edited to add SDAs feel they're speshul and the TOT will only affect them, since all Sunday-worshippers will ban Sabbath observance, etc., etc. (Sunday Blue Laws being a sign of the beginning of the end.)

And there are TWO times of trouble-- "Jacob's ToT" before the Close of Probation, and the regular ToT after. Jacob's isn't as bad, IIRC. Why Jacob? I know not.

LOL I'd forgotten about Close of Probation. For some reason it's sounding like a Mormon thing to me, no idea why. Maybe because I saw The Book of Mormon a week ago, and I was sad that there won't be a similar musical about Ellen White. "The Book of Proooooophecyyyyyy!"

[Talitha Cumi]

Haaaaa! And here I've been thinking I'd be the only one here who could understand that special brand of crazy!

I'm willing to bet you guys were at least fortunate enough to never have to live on a "medical missionary" compound where the women had to wear "reform dresses" and bonnets, and the men cut all the collars out of their shirts and couldn't wear ties (since those are both phallic symbols and all...)

Wait WHAT?? I never heard of this! What's a reform dress? Bonnet? WTF? I'm a 4th-generation Adventist and I have no idea what these things are. (Ex-Adventist.)

[coexist]

I just spent five minutes writing a post that is not here after clicking submit. Wtf

[coexist]

Trying again, sorry. Ok, SDA's have "medical missionaries"-- no formal medical training, they just are well versed in all of Ellen G. White's writings, specifically "The Ministry of Healing", and they learn about naturopathic ways to treat ("cure" ) illnesses from cancer to HIV.

For about a year, my mother & I lived at a place like this (Issues of Life), but not because we believed as strictly as they did. They commissioned my mother to do some work for them when my dad first got stationed in Alaska. (They were able to wear my parents down briefly, but we bounced when it got crazy.) Anyhoo, women had to wear EGW's "reform dress" since they were working at a "health sanitarium". The bonnets were for modesty since a woman's head was to be covered at all times, except when alone or alone with her husband. Men dressed like they popped out of the prairie days also, both for modesty and "health reasons". Ties were considered inverted obelisks and therefore dirty, filthy phallic symbols. Shirt collars were pyramids (?) and were taboo for men as well.

Groups like that are regarded as offshoots, but tend to think of themselves as God's *true* church, since SDA's are already the "only ones with Biblical truth" and the fundies are even "truer" than the mainstream SDA's.

(This really was much better the first time I wrote it since now all I can think of is how pissed I am that I apparently refreshed my phone instead of submitting, lol.) Issues of Life eventually disbanded (the leader, Mamon Wilson, was diddling his wife Carlyn's young trainee, DyeRhonda). Their new place (he & the new wife/former trainee) is called Centurion Bible School of Health. You can find them with a quick search, just type the whole name of the school since there is unrelated organization with a similar name. He's even got some stuff on YouTube these days.

Edited to clarify one thing, and also to apologize for taking things way off topic. Just wanted to explain that super duper, ultra conservative, fully fundamentalist, offshoot faction of the Adventist church, which is special enough in the mainstream.

[Trynn]

Ok I think the sda'ers need an AMA thread. Because of the phallic tie thing. I need to know

Born and raised SDA here and have no stinkin' clue about the phallic tie... All men at all SDA churches I've been to, and it's been quite a bit, have worn ties (just not tie tacks, cuz those are jewelry.)

That sort of upbringing would be extreme by the majority of SDA standards.

EvTA: formerly fundie beat me to it. That's... Weird. EGW advocated the reform dress in 18whatever... From what I understand it was actually the style of dress invented by ms. Bloomer.

She actually wrote AGAINST looking silly when you dress because your clothes are so out of date... Not to defend EGW, i normally dont, but that is one thing she wouldn't have wanted.

[coexist]

Born and raised SDA here and have no stinkin' clue about the phallic tie... All men at all SDA churches I've been to, and it's been quite a bit, have worn ties (just not tie tacks, cuz those are jewelry.)

That sort of upbringing would be extreme by the majority of SDA standards.

Agreed. I was third generation on both sides. It wasn't until meeting the Adventist medical missionaries that my father began cutting out his shirt collars and no longer wearing ties when not in uniform. (The men of the compound spent an entire day "counseling" him, an Adventist pastor/Air Force chaplain. I think he caved because he had been really suck and they "healed" him. Those offshoot groups find obscure things in Ellen White's writings and take them to a whole new level. By no means are they representative of mainstream Adventism. They consider themselves better than traditional SDAs since they adhere more closely to the teachings of the prophetess.

[coexist]

From their 'Contact Us' page, just for a visual aid:

[coexist]

Born and raised SDA here and have no stinkin' clue about the phallic tie... All men at all SDA churches I've been to, and it's been quite a bit, have worn ties (just not tie tacks, cuz those are jewelry.)

That sort of upbringing would be extreme by the majority of SDA standards.

EvTA: formerly fundie beat me to it. That's... Weird. EGW advocated the reform dress in 18whatever... From what I understand it was actually the style of dress invented by ms. Bloomer.

She actually wrote AGAINST looking silly when you dress because your clothes are so out of date... Not to defend EGW, i normally dont, but that is one thing she wouldn't have wanted.

Can't bold from my phone, but with regard to the looking silly- I agree. My mother had given up pants already at this point but did challenge the leaders on wearing that dress/bonnet because it was ridiculous. They ultimately permitted her to keep her long skirts and wear a scarf or beret since she was working behind the scenes on the business side of things and not with the patients. Their take on the wardrobe was that text that says God's people are to be a "peculiar people". My mom was like, that is NOT the definition He intended! Smh...

[Trynn]

Can't bold from my phone, but with regard to the looking silly- I agree. My mother had given up pants already at this point but did challenge the leaders on wearing that dress/bonnet because it was ridiculous. They ultimately permitted her to keep her long skirts and wear a scarf or beret since she was working behind the scenes on the business side of things and not with the patients. Their take on the wardrobe was that text that says God's people are to be a "peculiar people". My mom was like, that is NOT the definition He intended! Smh...

Right. I still don't agree that Christians need to be as peculiar as SDAs think, but most SDAs see peculiar as "different, but only when we have to be in order to follow god's laws."

[treemom]

So I don't know a bunch about sda. I bought a sad cookbook once

[bionicmlle]

So I don't know a bunch about sda. I bought a sad cookbook once

Yes lots of cookbooks! My favorites are the Apple a Day ones. I think we could do an AMA if there would be interest.

[treemom]

That was not a sad cookbook. I actually loved it.

[Janes Heir]

Issues of Life eventually disbanded (the leader, Mamon Wilson, was diddling his wife Carlyn's young trainee, DyeRhonda). Their new place (he & the new wife/former trainee) is called Centurion Bible School of Health. You can find them with a quick search, just type the whole name of the school since there is unrelated organization with a similar name. He's even got some stuff on YouTube these .

OMG. Seriously?! Friends of my family had them out to teach medical ministry about 7 years ago. The guy Mamon had with him -- Sebastian Teh -- was kind of creepy, but I had no idea about Wilsons. Were you there when this happened?

If you don't want to derail come over to my wounded eagles thread.

[coexist]

I was there in 1992. Mamon & Carlyn were still "married" then. (There was some weird conversation about it not counting because they weren't legally married, but I don't remember who told me that. My gut is telling me it was DyeRhonda herself. She sort of appointed herself my buddy because there weren't any other females close to her age on the compound at the time. (I was maybe seven years her junior, give or take.))

We interacted a lot with the other group in the area, M.E.E.T. (I think it stood for Missionary Evangelical Educational Training) -- a somewhat less fanatical group (regular dresses and "stylish" head coverings, etc.), but still superfundie none the less. The midwife from that group became close friends with my mother, and it was that lady who came to visit years later and told my mom about the Mamon/Carlyn/DyeRhonda shenanigans. The rest of this message I'm going to PM since it takes this waaaay OT and doesn't fit your new thread either.

I am connected to Carlyn through social media and the most noticeable change post-Mamon is the absence of the bonnet. Fundie-lite suits her much better!

[Odd1Out]

From Sarah's post about the lady's luncheon: " and I find I learn more about others when they share from their lives"

Really? You find out about others when you let them talk about themselves? Glad it's only taken 30 years to realize that. Those poor (3) ladies who endured that luncheon :(

[anjulibai]

I looked at the last two years, and the number of non-family members at this brunch has gone down each year. The first year they did it they had 8 women and last year they had 5. It also looks like they had a fourth place setting that went unused.

I wonder if they are beginning to scare off the neighbors.

[Odd1Out]

These ladies are probably new to the neighborhood or just like to punish themselves.

[YPestis]

I looked at the last two years, and the number of non-family members at this brunch has gone down each year. The first year they did it they had 8 women and last year they had 5. It also looks like they had a fourth place setting that went unused.

I wonder if they are beginning to scare off the neighbors.

Interesting observation. I think you're right, their annual luncheon with the neighborhood ladies have seen sparse attendance. I'm speculating here but I think it's the Maxwells' "conversational skills" at work here. I can imagine the time is spent in stiff conversation about DEATH, the Bible and SIN!. The luncheon is probably a mixture of religious proselytizing, Bible study, and the usual Maxwellian weirdness. I'm sure once was enough to scare off most sane person. The ones who still accepted the invite are probably new neighbors or themselves weirdly devout (i.e fundies). Otherwise, I think the Maxwells have developed a reputation for being the weirdos you avoid.......