Poster- Christianity inherently abusive

[zcccrv]

Also, ther are plenty of people of faith who do think for themselves. That's why there are many different belief systems. People question. They break off and away. They form new denominations and religions. They question. They think.

And many of us are in favor of actual science. I honestly don't know anyone of any faith who subscribes to creationism.

Of course. I was speaking specifically of thinking about the issues like the ones we discussed here. There are of course some religious people that thought extensively about what their personal belief means in the broader context of good/bad, reward/punishment, or what an atheist would think about those same issues. But they are probably not in the majority (pure speculation here on my part) because that seems like, for lack of a better description, a borderline "dangerous" territory to dwell in. What is personal becomes social once you start to go there. I can understand how that might be difficult.

[Arete]

Or maybe your life is more worthy? Who's to know? I sure don't. How do you not see that by concerning yourself with pleasing God through acts that are deemed "good" you automatically enter the comparison game because it's quite obvious that various people do "good" in various amounts. Some perhaps very little. It seems they deserve a reward a bit less than you do. At least to me.

To the last paragraph, perhaps you would do all those good deeds even if you didn't believe? Because there are people who do.

As I stated before, doing good acts is not a way to get points in the Cosmic Treasury. Doing the right thing is a human ethical obligation regardless of religious orientation or lack thereof. Doing the right thing and behaving ethically is also part of the process of salvation, or the life work of achieving union with God for an Orthodox Christian. They overlap. It's different from Protestant understanding of salvation as a one off revelation of the gift of grace. In OC theology, grace is a gift but it is only the starting point toward union with God. Giving love and care to others is BOTH your obligation as a human being regardless of religious status AND a tool in the toolbox to achieve theosis. You aren't competing with other people, theosis is not a zero sum game in Orthodox theology. We are all capable and we all have our individual routes to get there.

Sure, I would be capable of doing good even if I didn't believe. The most important man in my upbringing was an agnostic. The second most important is an atheist. I should be so lucky to be able to live as ethically and principled as the one did and the other still does. But the two most important women in my life were believers, and there was much beauty in how they lived as well.

[zcccrv]

As I stated before, doing good acts is not a way to get points in the Cosmic Treasury. Doing the right thing is a human ethical obligation regardless of religious orientation or lack thereof. Doing the right thing and behaving ethically is also part of the process of salvation, or the life work of achieving union with God for an Orthodox Christian. They overlap. It's different from Protestant understanding of salvation as a one off revelation of the gift of grace. In OC theology, grace is a gift but it is only the starting point toward union with God. Giving love and care to others is BOTH your obligation as a human being regardless of religious status AND a tool in the toolbox to achieve theosis. You aren't competing with other people, theosis is not a zero sum game in Orthodox theology. We are all capable and we all have our individual routes to get there.

Sure, I would be capable of doing good even if I didn't believe. The most important man in my upbringing was an agnostic. The second most important is an atheist. I should be so lucky to be able to live as ethically and principled as the one did and the other still does. But the two most important women in my life were believers, and there was much beauty in how they lived as well.

Thanks for the explanation. I do understand it a bit better now and I agree with you on the question of human ethics.

Please, please, don't take this the wrong way... I'm trying to be funny, not mean and I just have to say it... that concept with human ethics being at the same time a tool for theosis- ummm, that's very handy, isn't it? :mrgreen: Yours seems to be a very practical sort of religion and I mean that in a good way.

[Mama Mia]

I think that one sick lesson I learned from the story of Moses was to be thankful no matter how crappy your life. The people of Israel were hungry so of course, they grumbled. God sent them manna. Mann is nice but who wants to live off manna all day. Apparently, complaining at all really pisses god off.

Numbers 11:5 The rabble with them began to crave other food, and again the Israelites started wailing and said, “If only we had meat to eat! 5 We remember the fish we ate in Egypt at no cost—also the cucumbers, melons, leeks, onions and garlic. 6 But now we have lost our appetite; we never see anything but this manna!â€

Who wants to eat the same food every single day? We are talking about an all powerful god. He could have found the people a few melons or leeks, I'm sure.

God, this supposedly loving god, gets angry that anyone asks for more than he wants to give.

8 “Tell the people: ‘Consecrate yourselves in preparation for tomorrow, when you will eat meat. The Lord heard you when you wailed, “If only we had meat to eat! We were better off in Egypt!†Now the Lord will give you meat, and you will eat it. 19 You will not eat it for just one day, or two days, or five, ten or twenty days, 20 but for a whole month—until it comes out of your nostrils and you loathe it—because you have rejected the Lord, who is among you, and have wailed before him, saying, “Why did we ever leave Egypt?â€â€™â€

Like a very immature child, god throws a tantrum. How dare Israelites not be a hundred percent grateful for what he allows them to have. Didn't he leave them in slavery for four hundred years and let them wander in the desert for forty years a distance of about three hundred miles? And they dared want some variety in their diet?

I learned this story as an example as to why I should never, dare ask god for more than he gave me.

Biblical god is a giant, spoiled, all powerful child. No wonder people who believe in a literal, biblical god often seem cruel to their kids

I am taking an entirely different message from this: To me, it would be an example of how someone has been taking the bus, wants a fancy car, gets a mercedes and then starts to spend all their time complaining about how they don't have a rolls-royce. That no matter what some people have, it isn't good enough.

[France Nolan]

Why do you think it's a choice? I don't feel like I made a choice when "that doesn't really make sense to me" started happening. Do many people think that (non)belief is choice driven? I'm used to the religious explanation that you just "have faith" like you would have blond hair or brown eyes.

I can't speak for other people but I don't think it's a choice in the sense where people can just "decide" to believe. If belief in God doesn't make sense to you, then you're not going to engage in a relationship with God. I don't think people are born believing or not believing in God or that it's at all like having blond hair or brown eyes. There are people who unthinkingly adopt their family's religious practices (or lack thereof) and never wonder why things are the way they are. For other people they start to wonder and evaluate whether the faith (or lack thereof) they were raised in is right for them.

Even among people of faith we decide how want to engage in a relationship with God, how we believe in God, what religious texts are important, etc. etc. My parents were both raised Roman Catholic under Vatican I. They attended Catholic school, went to mass every Sunday, and received the sacraments. When my mom was a teenager she stopped going to confession. She thought that if she confessed her sins directly to God that God would directly absolve her- no need for the priest. At one point my grandmother made her go to confession and when the priest asked when her last confession was, my mother responded that it was at least two years ago. The priest asked why, and my mother had the gall to tell him that she didn't require a priest to absolve her sins. God would handle it. The priest proceeded to call my mother a heretic and tell her that she was going to hell. At that point my mother stopped being a practicing Catholic.

As a young adult she attended a Lutheran service and approached the pastor. She asked if they had an adult religious education class because she wanted to know more about Lutheranism. They did, and my mother attended the classes. She found out that there were people who believed in a similar way that she did, and so she converted to Lutheranism.

My father was less adamant about leaving the RCC. He disagreed with a lot of the theology but it was comfortable and he had no reason to convert. My mother refused to raise her children Roman Catholic and so my father formally converted to Lutheranism. Turns out Lutheranism fit his worldview much better than Catholicism ever did.

I know people who've converted to different Christian denominations. I know people who've converted to entirely different faiths (Christian to Jew, Jew to Christian, Christian to Muslim). I know people who no longer believe in God after being raised in religious homes, and I know people who were raised by atheists and are now believers.

[zcccrv]

I can't speak for other people but I don't think it's a choice in the sense where people can just "decide" to believe. If belief in God doesn't make sense to you, then you're not going to engage in a relationship with God. I don't think people are born believing or not believing in God or that it's at all like having blond hair or brown eyes. There are people who unthinkingly adopt their family's religious practices (or lack thereof) and never wonder why things are the way they are. For other people they start to wonder and evaluate whether the faith (or lack thereof) they were raised in is right for them.

Even among people of faith we decide how want to engage in a relationship with God, how we believe in God, what religious texts are important, etc. etc. My parents were both raised Roman Catholic under Vatican I. They attended Catholic school, went to mass every Sunday, and received the sacraments. When my mom was a teenager she stopped going to confession. She thought that if she confessed her sins directly to God that God would directly absolve her- no need for the priest. At one point my grandmother made her go to confession and when the priest asked when her last confession was, my mother responded that it was at least two years ago. The priest asked why, and my mother had the gall to tell him that she didn't require a priest to absolve her sins. God would handle it. The priest proceeded to call my mother a heretic and tell her that she was going to hell. At that point my mother stopped being a practicing Catholic.

As a young adult she attended a Lutheran service and approached the pastor. She asked if they had an adult religious education class because she wanted to know more about Lutheranism. They did, and my mother attended the classes. She found out that there were people who believed in a similar way that she did, and so she converted to Lutheranism.

My father was less adamant about leaving the RCC. He disagreed with a lot of the theology but it was comfortable and he had no reason to convert. My mother refused to raise her children Roman Catholic and so my father formally converted to Lutheranism. Turns out Lutheranism fit his worldview much better than Catholicism ever did.

I know people who've converted to different Christian denominations. I know people who've converted to entirely different faiths (Christian to Jew, Jew to Christian, Christian to Muslim). I know people who no longer believe in God after being raised in religious homes, and I know people who were raised by atheists and are now believers.

That's very interesting.

About how children are born, I actually disagree with you. I do think they are born as non believers. Of course there is no way to prove that in an empirical sense. My sister and her husband are atheists and their kids had no concept of God until they heard about it in school. It was, and still is but less so, a very confusing thing for them to grasp.

What I meant with faith as blond hair (wasn't a very good example on my part) was more along the lines of something that, when you're exposed to it, it either "sticks" or it doesn't. If it does it becomes a big part of who you are. A trait like many others. You can of course change your mind later. Die your hair, if I have to beat a dead horse of an example.

What you said about your parents and their religious life... it seems to me their examples are both of people needing something more than just their own internal impetus to go and look for something that actually suits them better. Your mother needed a pissy priest (she could have stumbled upon a nice one instead, there really are all kinds) and your dad needed your mom. That kind of loyalty to something you actually no longer support seems to be quite common in religion. To me it's a little scary to think about. We are all conditioned by many outside factors but this one seems especially strong (or maybe just very visible) to me.

[Arete]

Thanks for the explanation. I do understand it a bit better now and I agree with you on the question of human ethics.

Please, please, don't take this the wrong way... I'm trying to be funny, not mean and I just have to say it... that concept with human ethics being at the same time a tool for theosis- ummm, that's very handy, isn't it? :mrgreen: Yours seems to be a very practical sort of religion and I mean that in a good way.

No offense taken, the Greek end of the Orthodox Christian spectrum prides itself on its practicality with regard to how we view "doing the Lord's work". :lol: ;)

[Anxious Girl]

Lol! I love the "Not all Christians are like that" comments, but they won't come to Muslim people's defense, only their own. "Well terrorists are Muslims." You know what? If you Christians don't want to be viewed as hypocritical bigots, then work to change the Christian community or leave. Ignoring the problems in your religious community is just as bad as promoting it, and that's why I left Roman Catholocism.

[zcccrv]

No offense taken, the Greek end of the Orthodox Christian spectrum prides itself on its practicality with regard to how we view "doing the Lord's work". :lol: ;)

Good to know that I haven't offended every religious person reading here. I was starting to worry.

[treehugger]

Lol! I love the "Not all Christians are like that" comments, but they won't come to Muslim people's defense, only their own. "Well terrorists are Muslims." You know what? If you Christians don't want to be viewed as hypocritical bigots, then work to change the Christian community or leave. Ignoring the problems in your religious community is just as bad as promoting it, and that's why I left Roman Catholocism.

Thanks for letting me know that I hate all Muslims. I didn't realize that. :wtf: Oh, and if existing as a private Christian is not acceptable, please let me know. I was of the obviously deluded opinion that by not conforming to every questionable and objectionable belief in Christianity (and by actively objecting to discrimination and abuse, and supporting abortion and gay marriage) that I was working on changing the Christian community. Apparently I am mistaken.

Also, zcccrv, no offence taken.

[OkToBeTakei]

Good to know that I haven't offended every religious person reading here. I was starting to worry.

:lol:

I would hope not, Most folks love a good debate I know I do. But this may sound very strange to you. But in the way you view religion I view your posts here as evangelising atheism ..Shocker eh? :lol:

When opinions differ to such a polar degree it is common to have strong opinions. It's good in my view that people do.

I apologise in advance to treehugger for using her as an example.

Treehugger has stated why she believes what she does. How she got there and what it means to her. (If male I apologise again.) She has explained her viewpoint gracefully and intelligently. Why it is important to her. But this is what I see. Take away the religious aspect and what I see is a decent person who wishes no ill on others and hopes that no matter what beliefs others have that they are treated well both here and in her perception of some afterlife. In her view she does not wish people to be 'punished' in some kind of 'hell.' She has some beliefs that may not line up with my view, but what I see is a decent human being. I may not agree but I do not feel she is in any way imposing her beliefs on me or others.

I am beginning to think though that those who have been damaged by their upbringing/religion have difficulty in separating their own experiences at times from those of others and almost like the fundies we snark on can be as implacable about other's choices. This also I feel about some of your posts regarding your views.

For me what is wrong about religion or the lack of, is imposing your view or opinion to the point where it lacks respect for a fellow decent human being. Their choices, their beliefs and their faith may not be the same but for me that is irrelevant. If by your choices, beliefs another tells you are damned. You are wrong. You are a bad person. You are deluded. Intellectually compromised. Wrong. Well that is an imposition of will on another. Whatever your beliefs.

I am the first to roll my eyes at the fundies and their judgemental 'I am doing it right, you are all wrong attitude.' I actually find it laughable generally.

I still think you missed the point about Orthodoxy that was discussed. It was not a selfish 'I will live my life to this standard and be all good if there happens to be a heaven.'

It was. Do not judge or worry about what others do. Be the best person you can. I live my life without any religion. But I do want to be a good person. I do not do this for any celestial pay check at the end. I do it because it it makes me feel good as a human being to be that way. I think most people are the same. I hope they are. But if to help them get there they believe in an afterlife or a God, well fair play to them. As long as they wish no ill on me I wish no ill on them.

[France Nolan]

Zccrv, no offense taken. Anxious Girl... well, yes offense is taken.

[Mama Mia]

Lol! I love the "Not all Christians are like that" comments, but they won't come to Muslim people's defense, only their own. "Well terrorists are Muslims." You know what? If you Christians don't want to be viewed as hypocritical bigots, then work to change the Christian community or leave. Ignoring the problems in your religious community is just as bad as promoting it, and that's why I left Roman Catholocism.

Ummm.... were Muslims brought up somewhere in this thread ? Or do you want people talking specifically about their view of Christianity to just randomly jump in with "oh and Muslim's are awesome too !" , doesn't seem to be the point of the thread.

You could always start a thread asking what Christians think about Muslims if you wanted, but to just randomly throw it in and complain that no one has addressed it seems rather nonsensical.

[OkToBeTakei]

Lol! I love the "Not all Christians are like that" comments, but they won't come to Muslim people's defense, only their own. "Well terrorists are Muslims." You know what? If you Christians don't want to be viewed as hypocritical bigots, then work to change the Christian community or leave. Ignoring the problems in your religious community is just as bad as promoting it, and that's why I left Roman Catholocism.

Totally uncalled for. Sensationalist posts about muslims and terrorism are just ignorant and inflammatory and also in recent events as posted here on FJ unfounded. I think the majority here are intelligent enough to realise that bad people exist and use religion as an excuse, in all religions. How ridiculous to blame ALL of Christianity. In actual fact it is ignorance like you have shown that fuels the issue.

[Anxious Girl]

Um, how am I ignorant if people who categorize themselves as Christians are part a religion that's anti-woman and anti-LGBT? And Islam is, too, but Christianity in the western media blames Muslims for forcing women to cover up their hair but don't want their religion critiqued.

[OkToBeTakei]

Um, how am I ignorant if people who categorize themselves as Christians are part a religion that's anti-woman and anti-LGBT? And Islam is, too, but Christianity in the western media blames Muslims for forcing women to cover up their hair but don't want their religion critiqued.

Because you are making a huge and naive generalisation about millions of people. Both Christian and Muslim.

Also it was a totally ridiculous statement to make in view of the direction of this thread. Which has been really interesting and educational.

It gets really boring on FJ that there is some acceptable party line regarding certain issues that allows people to parachute in and make bland generalisations. OH how can you be a good person if you are catholic. ZOMG they hate women and gays and abortion. OH how can you be pro-choice and not absolutely have no personal opinion. Pro-choice is about choice, personal and for others. OH If you believe in God then you are a fundie. OH if you do not identify as feminist you are evil. etc. etc. etc.

This party line is as limiting as the party line of the fundies we snark on. Diversity and opinion is what educates and defines intelligence. Life is not black and white. Real life certainly is not.

Shit I went off on one ...sorry :lol:

[Arete]

Um, how am I ignorant if people who categorize themselves as Christians are part a religion that's anti-woman and anti-LGBT? And Islam is, too, but Christianity in the western media blames Muslims for forcing women to cover up their hair but don't want their religion critiqued.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! "Christianity" in the western media does not critique Muslims for their hair covering choices. Some people who identify as Christians do, some people who identify as feminists do, some people who identify as libertarians do....you get the point. Since there isn't even one central Christian postition on exactly how grace, faith, and works operate, whether Original Sin is a legitimate doctrine, when or how to serve Communion, or even when Easter should be every year for crying out loud, it's a little hard to throw out an accusation that Christianity has a central dogma on the hijab. :roll:

There are plenty of Christians who have come to the defense of Muslims in the US. Are we now required to loudly proclaim we are Christians when we denounce anti-Muslim bigotry, so we can keep an accurate score of Christians vs non believers when hatred is confronted? I don't think there would be so many different kinds of Christians on FJ alone if we were so delicate we could not bear to have our faith critiqued. Some Christians are anti-women and anti-LGBT, some are not. Some people stay and try and change things, others have enough and leave.

There are 2 Billion Christians in the world Anxious Girl. There is no way to put us all in neat little boxes. Life is complicated. People are complicated. Cultures are complicated. Learn to deal.

[DrWhat]

Um, how am I ignorant if people who categorize themselves as Christians are part a religion that's anti-woman and anti-LGBT? And Islam is, too, but Christianity in the western media blames Muslims for forcing women to cover up their hair but don't want their religion critiqued.

Because Christians aren't going to give up a core belief just because other people who have that same core belief have done shitty things. Not all Christians believe in the anti-women and anti-LGBT parts of Christianity, and they see them as a misuse of God's word.

Your generalizations about the Western media are just as ignorant. Just as only the bigoted and ignorant Christians would judge the entire Islamic faith on the bad Muslims, only bigoted and ignorant media outlets would make such claims.

Were any FJers showing any indication that they think it is okay to generalize about Muslims? I didn't see any, so your comment was out of left field as well as nonsensical.

[Ruby Slippers]

Anxious Girl, you need to SAT DOWN. You are setting back the movement.

[Sobeknofret]

Ok, lemme see here. I'm anti-lgbt, anti-woman, anti-Muslim, anti-science, anti-evolution. What else am I missing?

So many people are deciding who I am and what I believe, I'm getting whiplash trying to keep up. :D

[zcccrv]

:lol:

I would hope not, Most folks love a good debate I know I do. But this may sound very strange to you. But in the way you view religion I view your posts here as evangelising atheism ..Shocker eh? :lol:

When opinions differ to such a polar degree it is common to have strong opinions. It's good in my view that people do.

I apologise in advance to treehugger for using her as an example.

Treehugger has stated why she believes what she does. How she got there and what it means to her. (If male I apologise again.) She has explained her viewpoint gracefully and intelligently. Why it is important to her. But this is what I see. Take away the religious aspect and what I see is a decent person who wishes no ill on others and hopes that no matter what beliefs others have that they are treated well both here and in her perception of some afterlife. In her view she does not wish people to be 'punished' in some kind of 'hell.' She has some beliefs that may not line up with my view, but what I see is a decent human being. I may not agree but I do not feel she is in any way imposing her beliefs on me or others.

I am beginning to think though that those who have been damaged by their upbringing/religion have difficulty in separating their own experiences at times from those of others and almost like the fundies we snark on can be as implacable about other's choices. This also I feel about some of your posts regarding your views.

For me what is wrong about religion or the lack of, is imposing your view or opinion to the point where it lacks respect for a fellow decent human being. Their choices, their beliefs and their faith may not be the same but for me that is irrelevant. If by your choices, beliefs another tells you are damned. You are wrong. You are a bad person. You are deluded. Intellectually compromised. Wrong. Well that is an imposition of will on another. Whatever your beliefs.

I am the first to roll my eyes at the fundies and their judgemental 'I am doing it right, you are all wrong attitude.' I actually find it laughable generally.

I still think you missed the point about Orthodoxy that was discussed. It was not a selfish 'I will live my life to this standard and be all good if there happens to be a heaven.'

It was. Do not judge or worry about what others do. Be the best person you can. I live my life without any religion. But I do want to be a good person. I do not do this for any celestial pay check at the end. I do it because it it makes me feel good as a human being to be that way. I think most people are the same. I hope they are. But if to help them get there they believe in an afterlife or a God, well fair play to them. As long as they wish no ill on me I wish no ill on them.

Yes, it's a thin line between evangelizing and sharing your views with a, also very human, intent of maybe helping out. I have always considered it strange when religious people keep their views to themselves. In that sense, dare I say it, I understand fundies more; if you are convinced of something and consider it a good thing to be convinced of (it has helped you personally) then I think it is natural to want to share it with others. I may not agree with my religious friends but what I value most in our disagreements is the obvious intent to try and share what both parties have found to be beneficial to them.

I have personally felt a huge benefit to being an atheist and have read many accounts of people who feel the same way. I don't share my views because I want everyone to be an atheist, I share them because I think it may just help someone out. For those who don't need any help- they can think I'm evangelizing (I don't mind), they can take offense (a bit of a over-reaction IMO) or they can just ignore me. Just like I often ignore Christians trying to help me when it's clearly something I have heard many times before and leads to nowhere.

[AVENues]

You cannot ignore people that try to shove their beliefs down your throat and go to other countries all over the world and try to push their own ridiculous religion on people that their entitled asses consider as "primitive", and they try to take away one ridiculous but much more innocent and liberal religion with their own, fear and guilt based, horrid shit.

[zcccrv]

You cannot ignore people that try to shove their beliefs down your throat and go to other countries all over the world and try to push their own ridiculous religion on people that their entitled asses consider as "primitive", and they try to take away one ridiculous but much more innocent and liberal religion with their own, fear and guilt based, horrid shit.

My throat is just not very shove-able. What they do to their religion is really not my concern.

[AVENues]

My throat is just not very shove-able. What they do to their religion is really not my concern.

Mine neither, as long as their ideology isn't shoved down the throats of the innocent, forcefully, since they have no choice. And they keep it to their fucking selves, behind doors. You don't whip out your privates in public and try to shove it down people's throats. I don't know why dangerous ideologies are allowed to be spread.

As long as they keep it the fuck to themselves, don't harm other people directly or indirectly and they don't force their children to accept it. From that on, I won't have a say to what fucking mambo jambo book they consider as holy, what freaking imaginary creature they worship or what color is the ceiling they freaking talk to.

[zcccrv]

Mine neither, as long as their ideology isn't shoved down the throats of the innocent, forcefully, since they have no choice. And they keep it to their fucking selves, behind doors. You don't whip out your privates in public and try to shove it down people's throats. I don't know why dangerous ideologies are allowed to be spread.

As long as they keep it the fuck to themselves, don't harm other people directly or indirectly and they don't force their children to accept it. From that on, I won't have a say to what fucking mambo jambo book they consider as holy, what freaking imaginary creature they worship or what color is the ceiling they freaking talk to.

There is no escaping the fact that children are always the vulnerable ones and will suffer the consequences of their parents' behavior. Whether raising your child in fundie ways should be considered abuse is up for debate. Very tricky territory. I lean toward no but with obligatory secular public education, fully (at least I hope) understanding to what an extent that would limit parental freedoms.

It's a scale where on one end you have the freedom to exclusively homeschool and on the other the freedom to raise your child whatever the hell way you like (as long as there is no, what we at the moment consider, abuse). If you limit the freedom to exclusively homeschool you will hopefully automatically limit the extent of the other one as well. If you limit the freedom to teach your kid all about the mean fundie God (raise your child as you like) but leave the kids at home all the time doing homeschool, they are going to pick the stuff up whether it's illegal or not. Even worse, they will never be exposed to a different view. I think the lesser of two evils approach should perhaps be implemented in this case and exposing children to different views should be required by law. I know no other practical way to do that other than obligatory public education. It doesn't even have to be primary education (xy hours every day), but it should exist in some form, at least as an aside to homeschool.

It's not a very strong conviction that I have but it beats getting angry at every individual fundie, which in the end leads to nothing. By the way, where I live public education is mandatory but I don't think I am terribly influenced by that because there was a point when I thought homeschooling should definitely be legal. Now I don't think so any more.

Edited to add:

How does that saying go- you can only have so much freedom until it starts interfering with the freedoms of others (roughly). I think that the freedom to exclusively homeschool interferes with the child's freedom to experience life. There are of course many cases when it doesn't but I think the cases when it does should be of greater concern.