All things Razing Ruth

[treemom]

I think a point by point write up would be very helpful.

[laura oz]

I have to wonder if Ruth/Mary is lurking right now, and trying to come up with some kind of spin. If I'm wrong about her, I'm woman enough to admit it and apologize, but the ofduggar posts are making the ol' spidey sense tingle. Back to lurking.

ETA Curious got my avatar to work! Aint it cute!

[BravaAmica]

You mean another hand wringing post where she ponders why no one believes her? That'll be interesting to see. I don't know if she reads in Chatter. I don't know if she's a lurker or not- but she does tend to use her blog to answer questions that are posed on FJ.

[Oddeverything]

I will work on a point by point synopsis of what screamed "fake" to me about Ruth's story and will post it as soon as I can. I have some things going on tonight and tomorrow but may be able to finish it quickly if I can get ten minutes to think (husband's last day of vacation is tomorrow so things are noisier than they normally are). I would also keep it as a master list if anyone else wanted to add to it.

I have worries that people will think lists or such close analysis will be a witch hunt. If anyone has such concerns, please voice them. For me, this is less an "expose the scammer and yell at her" mission than it is a "keep Free Jinger clear of the appearance of impropriety" mission. If a long list would seem excessive to anyone, please share.

[BravaAmica]

I will work on a point by point synopsis of what screamed "fake" to me about Ruth's story and will post it as soon as I can. I have some things going on tonight and tomorrow but may be able to finish it quickly if I can get ten minutes to think (husband's last day of vacation is tomorrow so things are noisier than they normally are). I would also keep it as a master list if anyone else wanted to add to it.

I have worries that people will think lists or such close analysis will be a witch hunt. If anyone has such concerns, please voice them. For me, this is less an "expose the scammer and yell at her" mission than it is a "keep Free Jinger clear of the appearance of impropriety" mission. If a long list would seem excessive to anyone, please share.

I don't think it screams witch hunt. It could, if the information was used that way. But there are many who read here that are emotionally invested in RR and deserve the truth. Too bad we can't compare the IPs that ofduggar used and the IP RR used at that time. I wonder if there's a way to check that- a way that's legal and not a total PITA, that is?

[treemom]

I think a list will help people understand why some doubt her and help other people figure put how they feel.

[CanadianMom]

Wow, did this thread ever take an interesting turn. I was only slightly skeptical before, as I am of any hard luck story online, but I didn't see any good reason to strongly doubt. Now I am feeling differently.

I also agree this could be potentially damaging to the cause of opposing Christian patriarchy. I think it's fair of people to do research to verify whether Ruth is for real or not, but I still doubt that would extend to tracking her down in person at her (alleged) workplace.

This is the kind of thing internet and public records sleuthing was made for. Maybe the Warrior Eli Hoax sleuths could be of help in this sort of situation - http://www.warriorelihoax.com/

I was just thinking that maybe it's time to send this to the Warrior Eli people.

Part of me, and likely part of most people, want to believe her story - the girl who made it out of a horrible situation. But if she left when she was around 16-18 (if memory serves) and she is now 29 years old, that is well over ten years that she has been out. To continue to have the mishaps, the money begging, the lack of friends and support of any kind, it all seems odd.

And if she has met people who post on her blog and people who post on FJ, how come not one single person has ever come forward to say "hey I met her"? Not a single person. Strange that.

[CanadianMom]

Oddeverything, I don't know if this warrants being on the list, but R/M mentioned in her What Made Me Believe post that she can't get a credit card because of some issues when she was 18. I'm not sure, but wouldn't that be wiped out now that it is 10 years later? And she "made good" on the debt? I think that someone who is working, paid off the debt, owns a car, pays rent and bills and hasn't incurred anything in over 10 years would qualify for a credit card. I'm in Canada so maybe the rules are different, but still.

[formergothardite]

I think a point by point write up would be very helpful.

Yes, it would be very helpful. It will be interesting to see if she tries to address this, ignores it and keeps blogging or just poofs from the internet.

[Mustang Sally]

Someone might want to work on saving her whole blog somehow, in case she deletes it or makes it private.

[meda]

It's not really FJ's job to either "out" Ruth or help her out. She is a poster here like anyone else, and as everyone here knows, we don't ask for references and a blood type before approving accounts. If people want to write up a timeline, that's their choice, but any personal info that is not already public will be edited.

At this point, she has done nothing that would warrant banning her, and outing her is a violation of our TOU.

[CoffeeBean]

I have to wonder if Ruth/Mary is lurking right now, and trying to come up with some kind of spin. If I'm wrong about her, I'm woman enough to admit it and apologize, but the ofduggar posts are making the ol' spidey sense tingle. Back to lurking.

ETA Curious got my avatar to work! Aint it cute!

Her profile shows that her last visit or log-in was early Friday morning.

I do wonder if it's possible for mods or an admin to at least verify that her IP locations have been consistent with her location claims (CA followed by IL). That info is probably not something that could or should be shared, though, and I understand that no matter how curious I might be.

[lilith]

Her profile shows that her last visit or log-in was early Friday morning.

I do wonder if it's possible for mods or an admin to at least verify that her IP locations have been consistent with her location claims (CA followed by IL). That info is probably not something that could or should be shared, though, and I understand that no matter how curious I might be.

Our current policy is to not publish IP/login details.

[Arete]

That is theoretical harm and I don't think can't justify showing up at a workplace uninvited.

Of course not. I wasn't bringing up possible consequences as a way to justify someone going to a poster's workplace. If that happened, it is creepy as hell and completely unacceptable. I'm just pointing out that if this is not on the up and up, there is more at stake than individual pocket money.

[treemom]

I think we all understand fj doesn't have a job. But this is not the first outing. Ad was outed, raine was outed, Elle was outed.

[meda]

I think we all understand fj doesn't have a job. But this is not the first outing. Ad was outed, raine was outed, Elle was outed.

Raine posted under her own name, so no outing. Elle was banned for sock puppetry, and both Ad and Elle were outed under Alecto's management.

[mrs]

Oddeverything, I don't know if this warrants being on the list, but R/M mentioned in her What Made Me Believe post that she can't get a credit card because of some issues when she was 18. I'm not sure, but wouldn't that be wiped out now that it is 10 years later? And she "made good" on the debt? I think that someone who is working, paid off the debt, owns a car, pays rent and bills and hasn't incurred anything in over 10 years would qualify for a credit card. I'm in Canada so maybe the rules are different, but still.

IIRC, Ruth/Mary said she was part of a MLM company.

[treemom]

Raine posted under her own name, so no outing. Elle was banned for sock puppetry, and both Ad and Elle were outed under Alecto's management.

I didn't mean name, I meant outing the inconsistencies.

I think the "it isn't our job" is a bit ridiculous. Fj has no job. There is no defining purpose.

[Oddeverything]

It's not really FJ's job to either "out" Ruth or help her out. She is a poster here like anyone else, and as everyone here knows, we don't ask for references and a blood type before approving accounts. If people want to write up a timeline, that's their choice, but any personal info that is not already public will be edited.

At this point, she has done nothing that would warrant banning her, and outing her is a violation of our TOU.

Anything I write up will be straight from public knowledge.

However, I respectfully disagree with the notion that it is not FJ's job to make sure Ruth is on the level. She has gained credibility via her participation on sites devoted to exposing the harmful nature of Christian patriarchy. She openly solicits money based on part from the credibility this site has given her. FJ is a convenient way for her to use the reputation of this site for her personal gain. Raine never begged for money but the number of destructive lies she told were enough to get her banned from this site. Surely we can apply similar metrics if Ruth cannot explain her pregnancy and the myriad other problems with her story.

I have no idea the best way to go about this but I encourage all the admins to take a look at this and understand that this really has nothing to do with asking for blood types, which is a terribly hyperbolic reaction to this - as if wondering if someone is using this site and its members as a cash cow in exchange for lies is an over-the-top intrusion on the level of asking for references before anyone can post. It has everything to do with the credibility of this site and the integrity of the mission of this site.

But believe me, there is no way to doxx someone who does not exist so we are in no danger of "outing" anything but the lies she has told.

[twin2]

I didn't mean name, I meant outing the inconsistencies.

I think the "it isn't our job" is a bit ridiculous. Fj has no job. There is no defining purpose.

Outing was referring to providing a name or non-public info.

"It isn't our job" is referring to the administration of this board doing this work, as some have been asking.

[OkToBeTakei]

Raine posted under her own name, so no outing. Elle was banned for sock puppetry, and both Ad and Elle were outed under Alecto's management.

Ouchie. No idea what that means really. But why all of a sudden is it not be ok to be id'd via IP? It has been a common way in the past and posted regularly to identify troll/multi posters. Seems members would like some clarity. I see no difference unless it is totally illegal to say OH Razing Ruth said she was in Socal, but her IP said Hicksville.

Is it legal, a wish to not engage in speculation or some mix of both? Either way the moderation lately is just total pants and patronising. Might be worth rewording.

[BravaAmica]

Yep. What oddeverything said. To the tenth power.

[treemom]

Outing was referring to providing a name or non-public info.

"It isn't our job" is referring to the administration of this board doing this work, as some have been asking.

Then perhaps those words should have been used, and not other words.

[lilith]

IPs have been used to show sock puppetry, which is a breach of the TOU.

Ruth has not, no matter where her credibility stands, violated our terms of use.

[twin2]

Then perhaps those words should have been used, and not other words.

Fairly obvious to me, but tis the internets, things get lost in translation.