All things Razing Ruth

[louisa05]

Thanks for finding the link, chemist1217.

I don't think Creaky Steel is a liar. I just don't know how she decided Ruth was for real.

As a lot of posters have said or implied, it could be that some things are true and that she did have a sister give up a child. I tend toward thinking that her story has both truth and what we could charitably call embellishments.

[Lainey]

Well, if anyone's interested, here is a link about the PennMommy/Possummomma/jhawksgirl saga. Maybe someone will recognize similarities? Also worth noting is that apparently, jhawksgirl is the poster on TWOP who started the rumour about the Duggar's "Sin in the Camp" and the thing about Oprah.

ETA link :embarrassed: : http://gosselinsdonotneedourpity.blogsp ... ossummomma

[laura oz]

Well, if anyone's interested, here is a link about the PennMommy/Possummomma/jhawksgirl saga. Maybe someone will recognize similarities? Also worth noting is that apparently, jhawksgirl is the poster on TWOP who started the rumour about the Duggar's "Sin in the Camp" and the thing about Oprah.

ETA link :embarrassed: : http://gosselinsdonotneedourpity.blogsp ... ossummomma

Thanks for this! i had no idea who possum momma was or what went down. You're a peach :D

[Lainey]

Thanks for this! i had no idea who possum momma was or what went down. You're a peach :D

Why thank you; I try. :mrgreen: I still don't really know who she is. Like I said, I was told this by a former FJ member, who did all the work. I would really like to figure this out, now, though, as PossumMomma is blogging again (her last post was in April of this year, anyway), and most of the links that had proof that she was also jhawksgirl1 appear to have been scrubbed from the web.

I am becoming more and more uncomfortable with this whole thing. If she is a serial scammer, she needs to be stopped.

ETA: This is all very confusing; I don't know what to make of it. There are other blogs defending PossumMomma. Here's one: stargazers-observatory.blogspot.ca/2008/10/sad-sad-day-for-atheist-blogosphere.html

I just wanted to have a record of this: Ruth's blog was started on June 5, 2009. I feel like this information might be useful later. When was PennMommy's timeframe? What about PossumMomma? Off to go try and figure this out.

ETA: Possummomma's blog was started on August 19, 2006.

[tuckerphez]

Well to be fair, if her mother was 49 ish I've known a few women that age who had surprise babies, generally when they thought birth control was no longer needed but they were wrong. If she was 53 that would seem much more unlikely.

As an earlier poster pointed out though, if Ruth's parents met/married in 1974 (her father was on Gothard's Campus Teams), then Ruth's mom would have been born in 1955 (or earlier) making her 53-54 in 2009.

She's also said her oldest brother was born in 1980. I always thought her brother was born within a year of Ruth's parents marrying, but this could be wrong. So she could have been 49.

It's also worth noting that when talking about Blessing, Ruth said "My mom is in her fifties." Not almost-fifty, or fifty, but "in her fifties."

In Ruth's defense, this was her explanation, via blog comment:

Women over 50 can conceive without invitro. The rates vary on the internet between 2-5%. It looks like my mom is unusual because she didn't miscarry. Over 50 women have a 50% miscarriage rate. My mother has conceived eighteen times, with eleven live births and six miscarriages. Her first miscarriage was at age 31.

[Oddeverything]

I understand why the mods don't want to ban Ruth. Were it my forum, she would be gone, baby gone, because even though she has never come here asking for money, the fact remains that in this very thread kind-hearted women who bought her story suggested she put up a PayPal link for money. Ruth's blog has gained legitimacy from this site and even if she does not come in here, e-hat in hand panhandling, she does use this forum to gather funds. I mentioned that in my "plausible deniability" argument. Once someone has used a site like FJ to built trust capital, that person can take it to the bank that when she mentions her woes at the place wherein she has gained legitimacy, some helpful soul will make the suggestion for fundraising. It therefore is technically correct that Ruth has never fundraised here directly, but it is disingenuous to think that when she starts a thread here and then blogs about her financial woes that her potential contributors are not culled from this site.

If Free Jinger wants to permit the members of this site to be potential prey because this thread is hidden in chatter, that's their decision and as a member I have to respect that. Hopefully enough people will see this thread and will be able to make decisions as to how they donate their funds online. But I find it terribly unfortunate that this thread has to remain in "chatter" because if we are playing lawyer-ball on the TOS and Ruth's shenanigans technically did not violate the rules, at the very least the information about her should be in a place wherein even the newest members can see it. No one has doxxed Ruth, everything in this thread is culled from things Ruth herself wrote, and this thread shows the dangers of those using this community and others like it to engage in questionable fundraising. If the we found a member here belonged to the Vision Forum and had been using this site to fund raise under the guise of being on the run from the patriarchy, would it also be relegated to chatter? Or would we be treating it differently?

I am a bit startled by the exhortations that we calm down. This has been the most civilized discussion I have ever seen on a potential faker and sadly I have seen too many. No one needs to calm down. We are already calm. And no one is telling anyone to do anything. As far as I recall, I've made it very clear I am asking the mods to consider the situation. I think Ruth needs to be banned because she taints the everloving hell out of this site because letting her post here unchallenged gives her legitimacy. If that's what the mods of FJ want, then that's their decision but no one has been ordering anyone around or being a hot head.

I also find spurious those who make comments like "we can't police everyone!" or "if we ban this one person, where will it end?" Does anyone really think asking the mods to look into what is now a four year-scam wherein a member of this community has artfully panhandled other members based on a system of lies so obvious that it's almost a Marc Feldman textbook of how to engage in factitious and malingering behaviors for fun and profit? People guarding their identities by creatively disseminating information are in no way what is being discussed now and it is a derailment of the seriousness of this situation to compare them.

I am also concerned that a mod has stated that inaccurate information was flying around earlier in this thread. It would be helpful to be specific because I do know I spent a long time researching my concerns before I put them to paper, so to speak, and when I was informed I got information wrong, I edited my entry to reflect it. If that comment is referring to recent information that has been posted, please let us know so it can be corrected.

It's clear the path the mods want to take on this. I guess at this point all I should do is just watch and see if any information comes up that anyone wants added to a master list of Ruth's many lies and inconsistencies and to see if any information I found needs to be changed in any manner. I thought it necessary to be a voice encouraging an open look into Ruth and how she has manipulated this site (and others like it, including NLQ) to bolster the image she needs to part kind people from their money. If the mods feel this is how this needs to go down - thread hidden in "chatter" and Ruth permitted to post here, there is nothing any of us can do except respectfully ask them to look at the potential liability to FJ from having someone like Ruth continue to use this site for legitimacy.

[Mama Mia]

As an earlier poster pointed out though, if Ruth's parents met/married in 1974 (her father was on Gothard's Campus Teams), then Ruth's mom would have been born in 1955 (or earlier) making her 53-54 in 2009.

She's also said her oldest brother was born in 1980. I always thought her brother was born within a year of Ruth's parents marrying, but this could be wrong. So she could have been 49.

It's also worth noting that when talking about Blessing, Ruth said "My mom is in her fifties." Not almost-fifty, or fifty, but "in her fifties."

In Ruth's defense, this was her explanation, via blog comment:

Yeah, I guess it's like birth control failure rates or anything else that's rare.....Someone has to be that one out of a hundred or one out of a thousand.

[Palimpsest]

Well, if anyone's interested, here is a link about the PennMommy/Possummomma/jhawksgirl saga. Maybe someone will recognize similarities? Also worth noting is that apparently, jhawksgirl is the poster on TWOP who started the rumour about the Duggar's "Sin in the Camp" and the thing about Oprah.

ETA link :embarrassed: : http://gosselinsdonotneedourpity.blogsp ... ossummomma

I usually avoid Razing Ruth threads like the plague because I have been suspicious about her for so long. I've always been on the Munchausen by Internet bus on RR. I've comforted myself with the thought that FJ members are functional adults who can make up their own minds and RR is at least not allowed to solicit $$ here. But I also hate seeing tender hearted people being sucked into the emotional drama . . . and spending minutes and hours worrying about someone that I now consider to be a total fraud. And posting long and detailed advice to her if indeed she is a fraud.

Heck, that advice may well be helpful to others escaping the patriarchy and in need, so if you did take the time, please do not consider it wasted.

However, Possummomma has come up. You know, I never made that connection before between RR and the Atheist in a Minivan (AKA Possummomma) but now . . . FFS! Especially as the Atheist in a Minivan has resurfaced asking for info on the Chicago area.

I read Atheist in a Minivan years ago. When the first controversy came up with her over the excess funds raised for her SLE-- I remember it well. She supposedly donated the excess to another family in need. RiiiiGHT!

I jumped out of the Minivan right then. :lol: I also remember when she went off-line after the GDNNOP fiasco -- about a year later.

I'm not saying Razing Ruth is Possummomma or Penmommy or whatever. I have no idea. The writing styles are not that similar, but whoever writes Possommomma does do extensive research and does not like the Duggars and QF. So, to add to the info available I submit this link: articles.exchristian.net/2008/10/atheist-in-minivan-blog-attacked-by

I am saying that after reading that link you would have to be really stupid not to think that Possummomma wasn't Pennmommy, William, Berlzebub and probably Caladus too. Read it and weep. The coincidences are just too much and it is such a laughably weak defense!

Bottom line: I doubt Razing Ruth's reality, and have done for some time. Others should make up their own minds as to her reality and the Atheist in a Minivan connection.

I must respectfully disagree with a previous poster. This is not fun. Watching scams and emotional manipulation is never fun. I also have concerns about FJ's connection with RR, and wonder how and whether cautions should be given about her posts. I agree that "outing" is not an option -- but adding a caution might be . . .

[lilith]

Oddeverything- The path the mods want this to take is the same path we want every thread to take - that users post whatever they like so long as they don't breach our terms.

We are NOT trying to shut this thread down.

We are NOT endorsing Razing Ruth or any of her claims.

We are also not banning any member unless they breach our Terms of Use.

I, personally, would prefer to leave Ruth with the option of reading this and attempting to explain herself anyway.

I just wanted to clarify that the mods are not trying to control the direction of this thread any more or less than we do any other thread.

[Koala]

Oddeverything- The path the mods want this to take is the same path we want every thread to take - that users post whatever they like so long as they don't breach our terms.

We are NOT trying to shut this thread down.

We are NOT endorsing Razing Ruth or any of her claims.

We are also not banning any member unless they breach our Terms of Use.

I, personally, would prefer to leave Ruth with the option of reading this and attempting to explain herself anyway.

I just wanted to clarify that the mods are not trying to control the direction of this thread any more or less than we do any other thread.

Perhaps I am missing something, but why is it being left in chatter?

[Lainey]

I usually avoid Razing Ruth threads like the plague because I have been suspicious about her for so long. I've always been on the Munchausen by Internet bus on RR. I've comforted myself with the thought that FJ members are functional adults who can make up their own minds and RR is at least not allowed to solicit $$ here. But I also hate seeing tender hearted people being sucked into the emotional drama . . . and spending minutes and hours worrying about someone that I now consider to be a total fraud. And posting long and detailed advice to her if indeed she is a fraud.

Heck, that advice may well be helpful to others escaping the patriarchy and in need, so if you did take the time, please do not consider it wasted.

However, Possummomma has come up. You know, I never made that connection before between RR and the Atheist in a Minivan (AKA Possummomma) but now . . . FFS! Especially as the Atheist in a Minivan has resurfaced asking for info on the Chicago area.

I read Atheist in a Minivan years ago. When the first controversy came up with her over the excess funds raised for her SLE-- I remember it well. She supposedly donated the excess to another family in need. RiiiiGHT!

I jumped out of the Minivan right then. :lol: I also remember when she went off-line after the GDNNOP fiasco -- about a year later.

I'm not saying Razing Ruth is Possummomma or Penmommy or whatever. I have no idea. The writing styles are not that similar, but whoever writes Possommomma does do extensive research and does not like the Duggars and QF. So, to add to the info available I submit this link: articles.exchristian.net/2008/10/atheist-in-minivan-blog-attacked-by

I am saying that after reading that link you would have to be really stupid not to think that Possummomma wasn't Pennmommy, William, Berlzebub and probably Caladus too. Read it and weep. The coincidences are just too much and it is such a laughably weak defense!

Bottom line: I doubt Razing Ruth's reality, and have done for some time. Others should make up their own minds as to her reality and the Atheist in a Minivan connection.

I must respectfully disagree with a previous poster. This is not fun. Watching scams and emotional manipulation is never fun. I also have concerns about FJ's connection with RR, and wonder how and whether cautions should be given about her posts. I agree that "outing" is not an option -- but adding a caution might be . . .

Holy hell. :shock: Thanks for all of this. More to read--yay! :P

No, I suppose it's not fun. It IS interesting, though. How deep does this go? Who has this kind of time!?

[LeopardLady]

The link Palimpsest posted not even half an hour ago has had that post taken down. I find that very interesting. Do you think someone is scrubbing blog posts based on this thread?

[library_youth]

The link Palimpsest posted not even half an hour ago has had that post taken down. I find that very interesting. Do you think someone is scrubbing blog posts based on this thread?

Interesting indeed. I keep waiting for Ruth's entire blog to disappear, too.

[Lainey]

Interesting indeed. I keep waiting for Ruth's entire blog to disappear, too.

No, I think there was something wrong with the link. Try this: http://articles.exchristian.net/2008/10 ... ed-by.html

[LeopardLady]

Ok that works. Sorry if I set off any alarm bells just cause of a misspelled link.

[mrs]

Anyone else remember this tread started by Razing Ruth:

I'm flat-flat broke. We're talking "soda that's been open 9 days, flat" broke. Last week, a local woman came up to me and asked me to speak at her craft night. The church was to give me $300 up front and $300 after. Being as it is Christmas, I decided I could really use the money.

So, I prepped. Found out about the beliefs of the church I was attending and prepared a slideshow showing what it was like to grow up Quiverfull. My end message being: follow the Lord! But, follow him with the sense, ocmpassion, and reason he gave you.

The talk went well. They had suggested the prices so I didn't know what was happening when one of the members asked for my "up front" $300 back. Turns out, they didn't pack them in like they'd anticipated and my money was now needed to take care of reimbursing the caterer and crafter. So, I got screwed. :/ She said I might get the last three hundred...someday. WTF?! I was supposed yto get it now. I had so wanetd to go to Disneyland with my Ellie. :/ How can I do this again without getting ripped off?

[Palimpsest]

No, I think there was something wrong with the link. Try this: http://articles.exchristian.net/2008/10 ... ed-by.html

It is still there if you use Lainey's link.

So sorry. I automatically tried to break the link by taking off the http/ and somehow managed to screw up the link altogether. Perhaps I should not have bothered to break the link. :)

It is a meager attempt by exchristian.net at damage control by Berlzebub/Calladus on Atheist in a Minivan/Possummomma/Pennmommy after the "outing" by GDNNOP. It does go into the previous scandal a bit.

I'm just saying that Atheist in a Minivan/Possummomma was suspected to be a scam prior to the Gosselin/Pennmommy connection.

My own jury is still out on the RR connection. It is just very, very, weird that Atheist in a Minivan resurfaced and asked about Chicago so recently.

[Lainey]

Anyone else remember this tread started by Razing Ruth:

Yes, now that you've posted it, I remember it. Except now it reads like a roundabout request for money.

[library_youth]

Anyone else remember this tread started by Razing Ruth:

I never noticed that thread before. Wow, nothing ever goes right for her, does it?

Something else I've thought about: Ruth has never talked about graduating from college. You'd think a big milestone like that, something she'd worked so hard for, would be worthy of a blog post. Especially because it would be something positive in her life to talk about, for a change.

[theresa]

This just so pisses me off thinking of her profiting from this. I know of girls who truly are cut off from their families cause they don't tow the party line, who could really use some help. But they don't whine and complain. I was very skeptical of Ruth quite a while ago. I remember being in a chat at NLQ when Vicky discussed her being legitimate, and proving to Vicky she was who she was claiming to be, but this was several years ago, and I'm old and my memory isn't great so FWIW.

Also, I found it odd when Ruth was talking about getting rid of the internet. To me it seemed like moving to Chicago, the internet wouldn't of even been hooked up yet, let alone already having it disconnected. Also, it's hard to believe people would criticize a new persons lunch of peanut butter and jelly. And how far-fetched is it that someone would hunt you down at your job and demand to see your drivers license.

You would think if she truly was a well known ATI leaders daughter, the word would have gotten out about who she was, seeing as her family knew about her blog. Home-schoolers are some of the biggest gossips I have known in my life, surely they wouldn't have kept her secret. Again, jmho, I really hope that she comes clean now.

Terry

[Carla Bruni]

Although this is completely out of left field, I figured it's worth sharing - I did some googling for "razing ruth fake" and stumbled across a discussion on a childfree board about one of the trolls they had outed. This woman, who went by kbc, was posting on this childfree forum about being vehemently anti-children, while at the same time posting on mommy blogger boards about diapers or something. Anyway! Point being, this kbc person posted on the childfree board about:

1. Being ex-fundie

2. Having a pregnant sister who came to her upon discovering her pregnancy

3. Worrying about her brother's children, who were still in fundie circles, along with the brother

4. Having a mother who gave birth at 58 or something.

It is completely possible that this person read RR and decided to steal the entire story, but... I dunno, it still seems very fishy.

Here's the "outing" thread: refugees.bratfree.com/read.php?2,96239,page=2 (add www. before "refugees" if it doesn't work) - dated January 2011. I don't know the whole RR timeline, so I don't know how it matches up.

You can conduct an advanced search on the site for all posts by kbc, some of which may have been deleted. Trigger warning: I know there are lots of moms here, so you may find the CF language upsetting.

In the interests of full disclosure, I work in due diligence, but using my work databases for non-work purposes is against the law. However, there's definitely some legal creative googling that can be done with any additional info that can be pulled up, including public record research for asset tracing purposes and things like that.

[Lainey]

Here's another interesting link: http://gosselinsdonotneedourpity.blogsp ... mommy.html

All of this is sounding sort of familiar. Wasn't there another blogger who was found to have lied about having a sick kid, etc., etc.? And she was very respected and highly-regarded until it came out that she was full of shit? Also, the story about all those people calling the hospital when Penn Mommy's son was dying, sounds awfully similar to me to the tale about someone showing up at Ruth's workplace.

[fundiefun]

I've had my suspicions for over a year now about RR being a fake it just all seemed too orchestrated and the constant financial woes for money and then her sister fleeing and then returning to the fold, her college woes,etc. So many catastrophic events happening to her and then needing money and now with her dad dead you think she would have been found out by now if her family is that big in ATI. It just seems so far fetched for me at this point.

[NurseNell]

I read quite a lot of blogs, and I used to read Ruth's on a regular basis, and I usually remember what I read...she was concerned at her mother's advanced maternal age when she had the last baby, and gave her age as over fifty ( possibly 53, but I'm not sure about that.)

I was looking at a then new friend's wedding photos. There was an elderly lady in a wheelchair in the family photos. I said that was nice your grandmother could come to your wedding. It was her mother. She was in her mid 50's when she had T. T's sisters were 27 and 31 when she was born. Her father was in his 60's and died when T. was in high school. So rare, yes, but it does happen.

[Mecca]

Except I decided it wasn't worth it to me either. I consider my friends with some of the admin and mod team and I don't particularly want to impact that.

N

So after said it, I decided I didn't feel it was worth it to me. But i got quoted, which happens :) I know several people who are on the team have mega real life issues going on I personally decided to just drop it.

I can not like things and not have to needle anyone about it.

I complelely understand. And for what it is worth, I agree with your original statement. :)