Child Collectors Extraordinaire

[chaotic life]

OMG that woman bought a papoose board and uses it on one of her children when he rages. She calls it expensive but worth it. Now I have seen everything :ew:

[OkToBeTakei]

Just from someone who use to live in Russia, I can't for life of me wonder why Russia is a big draw for adoption. I know adoption is a risk, but most of those kids suffer from fetal alcohol syndrome. Unless they understand that and go all in with the expectation of getting a special need child, then why? I'm sick of hearing all these cases of people not being able to cope when find out they have fetal alcohol syndrome and their not the perfect little international toy of charity.

I think what annoys me more is that particular 'need' is not particular to that country. That is a fairly common problem.

[France Nolan]

OMG that woman bought a papoose board and uses it on one of her children when he rages. She calls it expensive but worth it. Now I have seen everything :ew:

The only time I've seen a papoose board being used is in a medical facility. My daughter cut her forehead on the kitchen table a few months ago and needed stitches. Between the pain and the blood the poor kid was just freaking out. The doctor and nurses at the ER put her in a papoose so they could clean the wound and stitch it safely.

I can't imagine buying one and keeping it in the house for her meltdowns.

[Jana814]

Do some of people who adopt a lot of kids, think if they do so it will insure their place in Heaven?

[already hungover]

The only time I've seen a papoose board being used is in a medical facility. My daughter cut her forehead on the kitchen table a few months ago and needed stitches. Between the pain and the blood the poor kid was just freaking out. The doctor and nurses at the ER put her in a papoose so they could clean the wound and stitch it safely.

I can't imagine buying one and keeping it in the house for her meltdowns.

I had to get strapped to a papoose board when I was 2.5 because I fell onto a pair of scissors and sliced my cornea. The doctor on call in the ER that night had a shitty bedside manner, and since I was already a pretty timid child and scared of strangers, I totally lost it when he tried to examine my eye -- as in, screaming and puking because I was so upset. The whole experience is probably my earliest memory, and I still remember how much scarier it was once I couldn't move. I was also pretty verbal and apparently begged them not to strap me down, to no avail. To this day, I really don't like tight or confined spaces.

(deep breath, seriously)

I really can't believe that any parent thinks that's an acceptable means of dealing with meltdowns.

[OkToBeTakei]

No offense. Yes, I think it has changed. The money has increased way beyond inflation. Our biggest expense in 1977 was air fare and 3 weeks of staying at a B&B. Our homestudy was free as, at that time, international adoption homestudies were required to be done by the state, which in Michigan meant free. The orphanage expected a donation, $900 was suggested. Some gave less, some gave more. Colombians love children, the babies and children were held, rocked, played with, and loved. You didn't see the institutionalized effects seen in Eastern Europe and China. There were very few cases of FAS. I never heard of any collectors. Most of those adopting were like us, married couples who, for whatever reason weren't able to have bio children. We wanted to be parents. Of all the couples I met over the years through real life support groups, none of us adopted more than 3 children. There were no adoption subsidies. It was a totally different world than now.

I honestly believe many of these collectors of adopted kids, all in the name of Jesus, are mentally ill.

I find it incredibly sad. Worse because it makes people like you who are honest and altruistic, have to explain. I asked you. That is not right, but when you see the collectors for GOD! It is hard not to lump all together. Terrible :(

[dpndetfarm]

The only time I've seen a papoose board being used is in a medical facility. My daughter cut her forehead on the kitchen table a few months ago and needed stitches. Between the pain and the blood the poor kid was just freaking out. The doctor and nurses at the ER put her in a papoose so they could clean the wound and stitch it safely.

I can't imagine buying one and keeping it in the house for her meltdowns.

That is disgusting. I guess she didn't read this when she bought the product:

CAUTIONS: Use the restraint only under the supervision of a licensed medical practitioner and only when necessary for the safety and protection of the patient is needed. Use the Board only for temporary restraint never for continuous or long-term restraint. Make sure the restraint does not impair the patients breathing or circulation, or cause overheating or positional injuries. Watch for risk of aspiration when the patient is in the prone position.

I would have gone nuts if someone put me in one of those to "calm me down". Being restrained, especially not being able to move my arms, makes me a crazy, panicky, lunatic! I mean I get a little nutty if I can't get out of a sweater (jumper) easy enough. :embarrassed:

Seriously, these folks are hoarders. We just need some authority brave enough to call this what it is.

[chaotic life]

A papoose board is a medical device that yes has a place in medical care. It's unpleasant, and certainly not something you want to use lightly. However, there are times when you simply MUST do medical care on a child who cannot and will not cooperate and the need for the care overrides the child's need of autonomy.

There is NO excuse for purchasing one for at home and using it for a child who rages, either from RAD or Autism. I cannot believe CPS would support that idea AT ALL. How do you pass a homestudy to keep collecting children like china dolls when you admit to something like that????

[France Nolan]

Seriously. Once the stitches were in place Toddler Nolan was out of the papoose and in my arms.

Can you link to the post where she talks about the papoose? This woman makes me rage.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

That is disgusting. I guess she didn't read this when she bought the product:

I would have gone nuts if someone put me in one of those to "calm me down". Being restrained, especially not being able to move my arms, makes me a crazy, panicky, lunatic! I mean I get a little nutty if I can't get out of a sweater (jumper) easy enough. :embarrassed:

Seriously, these folks are hoarders. We just need some authority brave enough to call this what it is.

Don't be embarrassed, I'm the exact same way. I'm feeling my anxiety rising just thinking about being bound up like that to "calm down". :wtf:

[ILoveJellybeans]

That is horrible :o I cant believe someone would buy one to tie their child down when they have a meltdown. That would probably make things worse, and it seems somewhat lazy parenting.

Yeah, I can see using one temporarily for giving a child who wont cooperate stitches or something, but I would consider anyone who bought one for their child when they are raging or having a meltdown, or doing any behaviour that the parent doesnt want to deal with, to be a bad parent.

[chaotic life]

It's on her other blog, and while it's a few years old, it's STILL disturbing. It never should have happened, and I'm not convinced that after having paid a small fortune it would have required for it she is magically not using it today when she mentioned it so casually in 2010.

lifeofthemomofmany.blogspot.com/2010/08/lion-at-table.html

Our medical provider told me awhile back that I needed to get a papoose board (for those who don't know what that is - it is about the size of an ironing board and has velcro to hold him tight which is very calming for children like Zeeky and are often used in medical instances to restrain children for procedures where they must hold still for their own safety - they are very expensive, but have helped him so much) for him to keep him safe during these episodes. It worked wonderfully and the instances of him doing such things was greatly reduced.

I do not CARE that he was hitting his own head. I've had more than one child who did exactly the same behavior. YOU DO NOT USE THAT LEVEL OF RESTRAINTS LIKE THAT.

In a hospital environment, physical restraints have very strict laws that govern how, when and under what guidelines they can be used. Even her excuse that her doctor told her to use it doesn't fly. Doctors may not order PRN physical restraints, not even in a hospital situation where a patient is being violent.

[ILoveJellybeans]

What a wonderful mother she sounds like :roll:

Not only is she strapping her child down for meltdowns, she is also using a toy the child is scared of to manipulate him into sitting at the table and eating properly.

[chaotic life]

Child collectors earn six figure, tax-free incomes from their "rescuing" behaviors. I thought that international adoptees were not eligible for most of the funds available, having never sought it out personally. I have since learned that it absolutely NOT correct. Depending on the state, these children can generate as little as $500 (plus Medicaid) for special needs subsidies out of the worst paying state of Texas to multiple thousands PER CHILD. Colorado allows you to get CNA certification (what I strongly suspect Adeye was "away at school" doing last spring when they returned to CO) and pay yourself for the nursing assistant hours that your child qualifies for. Every state will award SSDI even to brand-new children brought into the country. SSDI is based upon family income, but the SSDI for one child does not factor in the calculation for another child, only the parents' income. The lowest I'm aware of SSDI paying is about $640/month.

This one with the 18 children and adopting 3 more, a dozen of her children are high special needs from the US fostercare system. If they were adopted from any state but TX, I would calculate at least $1K/month in subsidies for them.

When you adopt ONE high needs child, you get a nice chuck of change that can go towards improving the child's life and boosting the family's level of living a bit. You also have a family that can devote time and attention to that one child. However, the more of these children you add to the family, the more you realize that you can make a LIVING off these kids, and a very nice one at that.

I'm not convinced it is JUST a collector mental illness involved. When you adopt only 1-2 of these kids, you don't make a huge profit. However, families who start collecting realize that the more you collect the higher your income becomes. You LOOK good, you earn status symbol in your social environment and while you are at it, you make a TON of money. Oh, I've seen discussions that it's all about caring for the children, but the more income you bring in off the backs of these kids, the more you blur that line. The family with 18 kids has a playground that costs over $30K in their backyard. No family NEEDS an ark playground in their backyard. You just don't. It's overkill. And while that frivolous expense went for the kids, do all of the funds go to the kids? There is no oversight on those funds. It's just checks that are cut to the parents every month and as long as the kids look okay-ish, no one ever bothers to look further.

I don't think anyone could profit much from 1 or 2 of these kids. However, beyond that and the money starts to add up faster than the needs of the children do. Five of them....18 of them....there's no way there isn't some component that is about money. There's just too much of it flowing and too few of these families holding down jobs that can actually provide for the financial means of that many kids.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

At some point surely it must cross the line from being a "normal" family environment to being a small institution?

I mean, that much money coming in to the point they can pool it and make big funding decisions (even purely for the kids!), buying huge playgrounds, 18 kids, it just starts reading like a residential school (to me, who has no experience in this area at all).

[Florenz]

Is it legal that on the "gods rainbows in our life" blog are so many pictures of other kids, plus their names?

I know its meant as a motivation for possible parents, but it looks a lot like the website of our local dog shelter.

[France Nolan]

Thanks for the link, CL. That's seriously disturbing stuff. Those poor kids. They've been moved from one institution to another.

[ILoveJellybeans]

They all seem to be pretty much the same age, other than a few teenage/adult kids. I think most of the children are aged between 5 and 12.

[chaotic life]

I believe most of her photolistings are copied from Reese's Rainbow. Is it legal? Depends upon the country the child resides in. Very few countries allow photos of their children to be posted publically online anymore. However, RR uses pseudonyms and doesn't identify the countries which is a common method to get around those laws. Also, since RR is not technically an actual adoption agency, whether they are subject to the laws that ban photolistings is murkier.

When you have that many children, I happen to think you have simply created a legal US orphanage. Most families that size argue that is not true, but I've seen institutional behaviors in my kids in a MUCH smaller setting, and simply cannot imagine that they don't show up in families that size. Safety becomes a HUGE issue in these families. Children still behave as if they are in orphanages, and two adults simply cannot have enough eyes and ears to provide safety for everyone. It's VERY common to have to use high tech security measures to keep an eye on kids. There was one of these mega families in Florida a few years ago where the parents were murdered and the police found something like 20 surveillance cameras in the house, all aimed at watching the children and not the grounds.

I've just seen even the most well meaning of these mega families end up with some major issues simply because the parents are stretched too thin and cannot possible provide safety and security for all of these children. I've also known a few of them where sadly the father and/or older sons saw the girls in the house as easy victims and molested them.

[graysmama]

OMG that woman bought a papoose board and uses it on one of her children when he rages. She calls it expensive but worth it. Now I have seen everything :ew:

Ugh... that is the last thing I would think of for my son's meltdowns. We have gotten tons of support from my son's occupational therapist and his special education preschool teacher on how to handle his meltdowns and things have improved a lot. I cannot imagine strapping him down for any reason.

Do these children get any outside services or is it all homeschool? It looks like all homeschool from her blog which I do not understand. I feel like the best thing I could have done for my son was get him help initially through the therapy center at the hospital for speech and now occupational therapy, then early intervention through birth to 3 and now our local school district where he get physical therapy and is in a high needs preschool class with a wonderful teacher with 30 years of special education experience.

His doctor referred us for the speech delay. His speech therapist was the one who first identified his other needs after a year of speech and got him referred for OT and in touch with the EI program. Maybe if this nutcase had her children enrolled in special education and therapy she would find a better way to parent than a papoose board. I'm not denying that a special needs child especially one on the autism spectrum can be difficult to parent but I don't think there is any shame in admitting you're not super mom and need support either. You can only stretch yourself so far. I love my son dearly but he needs far more than I am able to give him on my own to succeed.

If we didn't have the support and help for him that we do have I know that I would probably run out of patience far more easily when he is struggling. I don't because we've learned through his therapy how to help him cope. What scares me about families like the Unroes is that I worry that someone is going to snap or just that neglect will occur. Having one special needs child is stressful enough. With 21 children and many with special needs, you just can't do it all. The latest three children are not in good shape especially Matthew who looks to be in the same neglected state Hasya was in. Who is caring for the 5 little ones they adopted last year when they bring him and the other two children home?

[Full enough quiver]

I have worked in hospitals (part time, for 9 years if you count clinical training) and I have never needed to use devices to restrain a child. If you take the time to talk gently and calmly to them, explan what you're going to do, let them touch things if they need to, do whatever you're going to do on their teddy or doll, or whatever you have to do, 9 times out of 10, they will cooperate. Other people had to use the papoose, but they would be gruff and hurry, and scare the crap out of the kid. It may have taken me longer, but I never traumatized a child. I often find myself wondering wtf is wrong with people.

[NurseNell]

I have worked in hospitals (part time, for 9 years if you count clinical training) and I have never needed to use devices to restrain a child. If you take the time to talk gently and calmly to them, explan what you're going to do, let them touch things if they need to, do whatever you're going to do on their teddy or doll, or whatever you have to do, 9 times out of 10, they will cooperate. Other people had to use the papoose, but they would be gruff and hurry, and scare the crap out of the kid. It may have taken me longer, but I never traumatized a child. I often find myself wondering wtf is wrong with people.

There are times in hospitals when papooses must be used, especially in the ER with injuries. Also if you are dealing with a critical illness or injury where time is of the essence. It's not often but there are times when it's indicated. At home, no.

[Jinger Jar]

I just wanted to put this here:

My husband and I adopt special needs cats. We adopt through a local rescue that specializes in hard-to-place cats and dogs. We've adopted through them twice. Each time we had to prove we - via home visit from a volunteer and a letter from our veterinarian - that we didn't have more than three animals total in our home. Why? As the volunteer explained to us, to keep their animals from going into hoarding situations. Some people get addicted to that feeling that comes with giving a home to an animal that a lot of other people wouldn't want, and before long their home is overrun with cats or dogs that need a lot of medical attention or specialized handling or extensive grooming/hygiene or just time and attention from their owners that they're not receiving because there are too many animals in the home.

A small volunteer rescue organization for special needs pets won't place five animals at a time with one couple, nor will they allow people to adopt more pets every year. But adoptions agencies for human beings, medically fragile and special needs human beings no less, will allow people to adopt by the carload? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

[NurseNell]

I just wanted to put this here:

My husband and I adopt special needs cats. We adopt through a local rescue that specializes in hard-to-place cats and dogs. We've adopted through them twice. Each time we had to prove we - via home visit from a volunteer and a letter from our veterinarian - that we didn't have more than three animals total in our home. Why? As the volunteer explained to us, to keep their animals from going into hoarding situations. Some people get addicted to that feeling that comes with giving a home to an animal that a lot of other people wouldn't want, and before long their home is overrun with cats or dogs that need a lot of medical attention or specialized handling or extensive grooming/hygiene or just time and attention from their owners that they're not receiving because there are too many animals in the home.

A small volunteer rescue organization for special needs pets won't place five animals at a time with one couple, nor will they allow people to adopt more pets every year. But adoptions agencies for human beings, medically fragile and special needs human beings no less, will allow people to adopt by the carload? That makes absolutely no sense to me.

Wow, very interesting!

I do have 5 cats but they are healthy, and are rescued kitties. All neutered or spayed. Maybe when the older one's die I'll adopt special needs. What kind of cats have you adopted? I've had 2 deaf cats in the past. The no kill shelter I used to volunteer at had a room of FIV cats, they were on daily meds.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Adeye has updated about Haven.

It's about what you might expect. Haven doesn't talk and THAT'S OKAY!!

Apparently Haven says "stop" now. Praise Jesus.