Child Collectors Extraordinaire

[greek_chorus]

^^ Agreed. The other thing is - and you see this a lot with quiverfull families and their blogs - is that none of these children are ever described as having a truly unique set of characteristics. They're all "blessings", "loves", "sweet", "beautiful", "such a joy", "God's gift", etc - totally generic terms that could be applied to any child. It's like the parents never even bothered to learn about the unique traits that make that one specific child unlike any other, and just apply the exact same labels to all of them instead. I've always been weirded out by this with the Duggars - how every time Boob/Mullet try to describe one particular one in the litter, they can't come up with anything different to say - but with child collectors, it's even worse because these kids DID miss out on bonding with their parents for the first X years of their lives, and they don't even get to feel special now. :evil:

Yeah it's like the Collectors expect their collections to be grateful for their new habitat. It reminds me of the animal displays at the American Museum of Natural History, except those animals are stuffed. I think these children deserve more than that. I'd rather know what each child likes to do, what interests them, what are they good at. All this talk of their special needs and health issues is more about the Collector and little to do with the child/children.

[chaotic life]

You know that's a totally interesting point about never seeing these collections with unique characteristics.

My mother was a collector (3 bios and 7 adopted over the years) and she knows absolutely NOTHING about the individual characterisics of any of her children. In fact, only three children have any contact with her at all now. The youngest two are still court ordered to go to visis once a month and one in college is financially dependent upon the crumbs she controls him with for a few more months.

My friends tell me that the biggest thing that has always struck them about me is how I know each of my children intimately and uniquely, despite the size of my family. My friends actually get highly amused when DH and I take the kids and feed them pizza or serve a salad for the kids. A few of the plates might look similiar, but each child's plate is tailored to that specific child and what we know their likes and dislikes are, even when it comes to food.

My biggest anger at Micah's fostermother was that when I was working to bring him home, I asked her what his likes and dislikes were. She had NO IDEA. She was a collector, and she did it for profit. She always had six medical foster kids in her home and brings in a six figure income tax-free for her efforts. Those children were always a paycheck to her and not unique individuals. It showed in her lack of seeing them and knowing them.

When I think of the families I have known both IRL and online that I consider collectors, I honestly cannot think of one family where the children were known as unique individuals, were not referred to in generic terms but by name and by their own individuality. Collectively, I may refer to my children as my life but that is a statement on my role as their mother and not their identities.

I do want to know why you pu a child in such critical condition in a bedroom away from you though. I have always kept medically fragile children right in my supervision so I could keep an eye on them. Micah used to keep me up at night with his Cysic cough, but at least I knew he was okay when he was coughing. Why the heck did Adeye have to wake her child up in the am when the kid was that sick????? Should have had her right beside mama to know when she went bad in the night before reaching that point!

[greek_chorus]

You know that's a totally interesting point about never seeing these collections with unique characteristics.

My mother was a collector (3 bios and 7 adopted over the years) and she knows absolutely NOTHING about the individual characterisics of any of her children. In fact, only three children have any contact with her at all now. The youngest two are still court ordered to go to visis once a month and one in college is financially dependent upon the crumbs she controls him with for a few more months.

My friends tell me that the biggest thing that has always struck them about me is how I know each of my children intimately and uniquely, despite the size of my family. My friends actually get highly amused when DH and I take the kids and feed them pizza or serve a salad for the kids. A few of the plates might look similiar, but each child's plate is tailored to that specific child and what we know their likes and dislikes are, even when it comes to food.

My biggest anger at Micah's fostermother was that when I was working to bring him home, I asked her what his likes and dislikes were. She had NO IDEA. She was a collector, and she did it for profit. She always had six medical foster kids in her home and brings in a six figure income tax-free for her efforts. Those children were always a paycheck to her and not unique individuals. It showed in her lack of seeing them and knowing them.

When I think of the families I have known both IRL and online that I consider collectors, I honestly cannot think of one family where the children were known as unique individuals, were not referred to in generic terms but by name and by their own individuality. Collectively, I may refer to my children as my life but that is a statement on my role as their mother and not their identities.

I do want to know why you pu a child in such critical condition in a bedroom away from you though. I have always kept medically fragile children right in my supervision so I could keep an eye on them. Micah used to keep me up at night with his Cysic cough, but at least I knew he was okay when he was coughing. Why the heck did Adeye have to wake her child up in the am when the kid was that sick????? Should have had her right beside mama to know when she went bad in the night before reaching that point!

Chaotic Life, I've really enjoyed and appreciated your posts throughout this thread. If you were to refer to your children as blessings or treasures I wouldn't flinch, because it's so apparent how much you value each of them as unique individuals and not some collection of Hummel figurines.

I've always wanted to be a foster parent and my husband is now on board with the idea. Initially he thought it would be too painful to have a child living with us that we became attached to, and who became attached to us, who then had to leave. Apparently he was listening to an interview on the radio a few weeks ago about a family who fostered three brothers and it moved him so much, he came home and told me it was something he could see us doing. Right now we're trying to conceive so becoming foster parents will have to be put on hold, but if I'm not pregnant by the end of the year I think we'll probably move in that direction.

[freejugar]

i stumbled on an old post of hers

She was born on the same day as Cade, just two years prior! The date we knew our daughter would be born. What's more, she was born the exact time that I read the article about the plight of the Chinese girls, while we were living in Australia. Of course the doctor would not change my C-section date, even after I begged her to (she had no idea how she was being used by the Almighty Father). Cade and Hannah-Claire HAD to be born on the same day--it was always meant to be that way--since before the foundation of the universe.

OH GOD WTF AM I READING :doh:

[chaotic life]

LMAO, abandoned chinese children do not have reliable birthdates Hell, the only ones of my boys that I consider their birthdates reliable are because they were born in hospitals who filed birth certificates immediately after their births. How convenient that the projected birthdate was set just for her.

LOL, I just had six kids in my living room at once and I noticed something else about my kiddos. They all have very unique hair....and most of them expect ME to know how to maintain it. :doh:

My children are NOT blessings. They are not objects. I am blessed to get to be their mother. They are not blessings, have not blessed me, and are not required to provide ME with happiness. I got myself into this mess. It is my job to sacrifice all of me if necessary to always put their best interests first. Not one of my boys from afar was himself lucky to be my son. *I* am lucky to be given them. They would thrive, one way or another. Their strength is formidable. However, I would lose the opportunity to learn from them, to shaped by them, and to be blessed by these children if I hadn't been brave enough to not listen to the conventional and easy advice to follow. And my bios are proof positive that you really cannot custom order a perfect child and must be the parent your child needs, no matter what. They are all simply children. It is not their job to bless me and therefore they are not blessings...although if my sons don't stop trying to drop the floor above me down onto me, they may be some rather reorganized not-blessings soon..........

Off to actually PARENT.

[laura oz]

Chaotic Life, I had to tell you how impressed I am with what you wrote and how much I admire your viepoint. I "liked" it, but that wasn't enough. My mother in law said something similar about her kids not owing her anything but to hopefully be happy. That she chose to have them. Wise old bird.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

i stumbled on an old post of hers

OH GOD WTF AM I READING :doh:

Ah yes, one of the main themes of her blog!

Supposedly Jesus/Lord/The Almighty/King of Kings/Etc has known, from the beginning of time, since before the world was created, that these kids would be Adeye's children eventually. They always were her children, PLANNED THAT WAY BY GOD, from the beginning of time.

But she never seems to ask, if that's true, why on earth God makes those kids suffer for years first. Why not have those kids just born to her? Or at least make the orphanages they're in have good resources so they don't have to starve for years in cribs? But no, it's all about setting up these wonderful opportunities for the Christian parents to obey God's command to "help the orphan" as she reminds on every other page.

I just don't see how viewing things as "God has set this up from the beginning of time" can be anything OTHER than 100% creepy and horrible. That's supposed to be a positive thing for her religion????

Add to that her other main theme of late, how wonderful, wonderful it is, kids with disabilities, they have a purpose! yes, to make us all consider this or that, to make us compassionate, whatever it is. Granted it's not only fundies who think that way but Adeye is 150% in, and it's just SO damn patronizing.

Further add in various disparaging remarks about foreign countries seeming to imply that orphanage scenes she sees are all that is in those countries (and that such things surely don't happen in the wonderful USA) and it just becomes one big ball of annoying.

...addictively annoying, but I can't deny I kinda read it for the "what crazy speech is coming next?" factor.

[C Potter-Pirbright]

Treasures, collectibles, jewels, precious things, they make the children sound like happy meal toys. You know collect the whole set of shiny happy looking dolls. Turns ones stomach. Children are people too , they are not objects they are not there to redeem your soul and make you feel complete. Living, breathing, thinking ,opinionated people who deserve to not be a tool for you to minister to others, they deserve to live fulfilling lives.

Also on the theme of Adeye and the foreign orphanages, does the word 'ransom' make anyone else want to rage as much as it makes me? :x No you are not ransoming a child from a kidnapper, you are paying for paperwork, for the fact that someone else had to help make this adoption possible and legal , and feed and clothe that child. It is not I repeat not a ransom. Just because you want that child doesn't mean it gets handed to you because you're an amazing Christian lady, nope you go through all the procedures everyone else needs to as well and yes they come at a cost as does pretty much everything in life. Foreign governments don't have to bend over backwards for you you cause you're so 'amazing'. Sheesh.

[dianapavelovna]

Also on the theme of Adeye and the foreign orphanages, does the word 'ransom' make anyone else want to rage as much as it makes me? :x No you are not ransoming a child from a kidnapper, you are paying for paperwork, for the fact that someone else had to help make this adoption possible and legal , and feed and clothe that child. It is not I repeat not a ransom. Just because you want that child doesn't mean it gets handed to you because you're an amazing Christian lady, nope you go through all the procedures everyone else needs to as well and yes they come at a cost as does pretty much everything in life. Foreign governments don't have to bend over backwards for you you cause you're so 'amazing'. Sheesh.

Ugh, yeah, that seems to be a theme among the evangelical adoption community, and I RAGE. Private adoption, foreign or domestic, is expensive for a variety of reasons (not going to deny that sometimes, some of those reasons can be bogus or shady). There is no "ransom" involved when you pluck a child from their native country and culture and the only home they've ever known. Some people with more extreme viewpoints would probably argue that you're the kidnapper.

[dianapavelovna]

Now Kael (the little guy Adeye just brought home from Bulgaria) is in the hospital too:

bringing the rain

Just a quick update because I don't have much time. Please forgive the typos and errors.

What a crazy few days we have had! As you all know, Harper is in ICU. Poor baby is struggling with Influenza-B, pneumonia, and today we found out that she also has strep. Oh my goodness!

This morning Hasya woke up with a 104.8 degree fever. High fevers have been common around here over the last few days, but with her seizures, extremely high fevers are very dangerous. While Anthony spent some hours with Harper at the hospital, I called on a dear friend to come and watch my children here at home while I rushed Hasya back to the ER.

Thankfully, X-rays showed no pneumonia--but there is definitely junk on her lungs. She is at a very high risk of getting pneumonia. Her high fevers are also a huge concern too. We are doing our best to keep them under control with medication. The doctor in the ER asked me if I was comfortable bringing Hasya home and seeing how things unfold in the next few days. Of course!

And so we came home.

I walked back into my living room, took one look at Kael and knew that he was doing worse than when I left the house. In just a matter of hours he had declined rapidly. His oxygen levels had dropped to 74, his mouth was blue, and he was so lethargic.

With no time to waste, back to the ER we went.

Tonight we have two precious lovies in the hospital. Kael has exactly the same thing as Harpy has. They are both so, so sick.

We are beyond exhausted and running on empty. I cannot remember a time in my life when I have been more emotionally and physically weary. But we're so thankful that these two blessings are here with us, and not lying in cribs in faraway lands. We are counting our blessings that they are both in excellent hands and that the road to their healing has already begun.

And as for us? The Lord continues to take us by the hand and show us His astonishing faithfulness. Even in this.

What profound lessons there are to be learned when we're so deep down in the valley!

"Bring me joy, bring me peace

Bring the chance to be free

Bring me anything that brings You glory

And I know there'll be days

When this life brings me pain

But if that's what it takes to praise You

Jesus, bring the rain. ~~ Mercy Me

If this is what it takes to praise Him...

JESUS BRING THE RAIN!

Oh yeah, don't forget the 104+ fevers for the severely malnourished and neglected 15-year-old. Sounds like things are going swimmingly.

nogreaterjoymom.com/2013/02/bringing-rain.html

Meanwhile, over at There's no place like home, Jean has been doing a Q&A session and someone asked about the special needs of their kids:

Our children have a variety of special needs-

Hep B, severe cognitive disability, Severe speech disabilities, moderate cognitive delays, Cleft Lip/ Palate, HIV, Congenital Siderblastic anemia(regular blood transfusions), Dextrocardia and TOF, Anal Atresia(Imperforate Anus).

Today she has a post up about adopting a child who's HIV positive. It's a general sort of "what to expect" post and doesn't give out specific details on the child's health or identify which child it is. I gotta say I'm a little shocked that she and her husband were so naive about HIV transmission, but maybe it's just because I was born in the late 80s and started learning about HIV in health class in the fourth and fifth grades...

theresnoplacelikehome-family.blogspot.com/2013/02/adopting-hiv.html

[DarkAnts]

Ah yes, one of the main themes of her blog!

Supposedly Jesus/Lord/The Almighty/King of Kings/Etc has known, from the beginning of time, since before the world was created, that these kids would be Adeye's children eventually. They always were her children, PLANNED THAT WAY BY GOD, from the beginning of time.

But she never seems to ask, if that's true, why on earth God makes those kids suffer for years first. Why not have those kids just born to her? Or at least make the orphanages they're in have good resources so they don't have to starve for years in cribs? But no, it's all about setting up these wonderful opportunities for the Christian parents to obey God's command to "help the orphan" as she reminds on every other page.

I just don't see how viewing things as "God has set this up from the beginning of time" can be anything OTHER than 100% creepy and horrible. That's supposed to be a positive thing for her religion????

Add to that her other main theme of late, how wonderful, wonderful it is, kids with disabilities, they have a purpose! yes, to make us all consider this or that, to make us compassionate, whatever it is. Granted it's not only fundies who think that way but Adeye is 150% in, and it's just SO damn patronizing.

Further add in various disparaging remarks about foreign countries seeming to imply that orphanage scenes she sees are all that is in those countries (and that such things surely don't happen in the wonderful USA) and it just becomes one big ball of annoying.

...addictively annoying, but I can't deny I kinda read it for the "what crazy speech is coming next?" factor.

That sounds similar to LDS theology with spirit babies in heaven knowing god before birth and being placed in a family god sees fit.

[C Potter-Pirbright]

Meanwhile, over at There's no place like home, Jean has been doing a Q&A session and someone asked about the special needs of their kids:

Today she has a post up about adopting a child who's HIV positive. It's a general sort of "what to expect" post and doesn't give out specific details on the child's health or identify which child it is. I gotta say I'm a little shocked that she and her husband were so naive about HIV transmission, but maybe it's just because I was born in the late 80s and started learning about HIV in health class in the fourth and fifth grades...

theresnoplacelikehome-family.blogspot.com/2013/02/adopting-hiv.html

See I read this and I thought great I appreciate the fact that she felt they could do this and that she didn't splash identifying information about the child all over the internet. And even the what to expect was while very basic was not terrible. Except after thinking about it a while I now know why I feel uneasy about the post. How on earth were her and her husband so naive about HIV transmission in the mid 2000's ? She was a nurse , and while she left to raise her own children (in the 80's and 90's) these kids weren't homeschooled they went to school outside the home where they'd have learnt these things. She also returned to work as a school nurse for several years. How on earth could she be so naive? I want to believe she was ' dumbing down' the post for her audience but seriously?

Also I am not the parent of an HIV positive child but umm surely she shouldn't be so blasé about some of the care? Such as coming in contact with blood etc because its her child? (Of course if I'm horribly wrong I will happily stand corrected)

[Vex]

See I read this and I thought great I appreciate the fact that she felt they could do this and that she didn't splash identifying information about the child all over the internet. And even the what to expect was while very basic was not terrible. Except after thinking about it a while I now know why I feel uneasy about the post. How on earth were her and her husband so naive about HIV transmission in the mid 2000's ? She was a nurse , and while she left to raise her own children (in the 80's and 90's) these kids weren't homeschooled they went to school outside the home where they'd have learnt these things. She also returned to work as a school nurse for several years. How on earth could she be so naive? I want to believe she was ' dumbing down' the post for her audience but seriously?

Also I am not the parent of an HIV positive child but umm surely she shouldn't be so blasé about some of the care? Such as coming in contact with blood etc because its her child? (Of course if I'm horribly wrong I will happily stand corrected)

HIV can of course be transmitted that way, but it's pretty rare. You would basically need the blood to come into contact with an open wound. Low viral loads also help lower the risk of transmission, or at least that was the belief when I did some study on the condition for uni. I assume she's getting ARVs and has a fairly low viral load but it's hard to tell without knowing more about the child's health. It's pretty hard to pass HIV on through things like skin-blood contact (except, like I mentioned, with open wounds) and saliva. The chances of infection are at their highest when there is a blood transfusion, or through semen introduced into the vagina or anus. I believe the greatest risk of infection comes from anal sex. At least with vaginal sex the semen is contained within the reproductive organs, which isn't the case with anal sex. As a nurse she should know all that and way, way more. I apologise if any of my info is outdated.

[OkToBeTakei]

HIV can of course be transmitted that way, but it's pretty rare. You would basically need the blood to come into contact with an open wound. Low viral loads also help lower the risk of transmission, or at least that was the belief when I did some study on the condition for uni. I assume she's getting ARVs and has a fairly low viral load but it's hard to tell without knowing more about the child's health. It's pretty hard to pass HIV on through things like skin-blood contact (except, like I mentioned, with open wounds) and saliva. The chances of infection are at their highest when there is a blood transfusion, or through semen introduced into the vagina or anus. I believe the greatest risk of infection comes from anal sex. At least with vaginal sex the semen is contained within the reproductive organs, which isn't the case with anal sex. As a nurse she should know all that and way, way more. I apologise if any of my info is outdated.

That is pretty much my recent knowledge on HIV Vex.

I think her post was pretty good. Accurate and if a bit hopeful in regards to the prejudice the child may encounter. She is correct about universal protection being no different for HIV. She does say the viral load is undetectable at the present time.

To the OP. I am not in any way surprised she was not absolutely up to date with latest HIV data at the time of adoption. As a study ask 10 people from differing age groups how it can be transmitted. I would be extremely surprised if you were given a consistent answer.

[HeckBound]

I'm sure this will get me flamed, but this frenetic amassing of children strikes me as disorder along the same lines as hoarding. Also,how does the "God will provide....what me, worry" crew decided to bring home a few hundred thousand dollars in medical needs to a country with sketchy (at best) access to health care, most of it dependent on being employed full time in something unattractively corporate?

I'm sure some of these kids would be better off sleeping in my garage than they are where they are now. Same with the shelter animals whose pictures I get teary over. This doesn't mean I'm capable of bringing them all into my house and building a "family" from them.

[lilah]

I could see that, like some sort of non-chemical emotional high you get from adopting a child.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think that baby hoarding is a real thing, it certainly seems like some of these parents (both the ones who adopt loads of children and the ones who make it a competition in how they can abuse their uterus) have a problem with it. When they have one, theyre thinking of the next one straight away.

[greek_chorus]

Has anyone read the latest There's No Place Like Home entry? Someone asked Jean how she keeps her home a family and not an orphanage. This woman is getting ready to adopt another child from China and is worried she won't have enough time to spend with each child. So Jean interviews Sarah, Ellie and Ava about their experiences in an orphanage and in a family. I read Sarah's comments and can't bring myself to read the other two yet.

I'm not sure what to make of this post. On the one hand it breaks my heart to think of children living in that kind of situation on the other I feel a little like I'm being manipulated. Not that the kids experiences weren't awful, more that the notion that one family adopting as many children as possible will somehow fix the problem.

Well, I guess I'll go back and try to read through Ava and Ellie's interviews without tearing up.

[OkToBeTakei]

Has anyone read the latest There's No Place Like Home entry? Someone asked Jean how she keeps her home a family and not an orphanage. This woman is getting ready to adopt another child from China and is worried she won't have enough time to spend with each child. So Jean interviews Sarah, Ellie and Ava about their experiences in an orphanage and in a family. I read Sarah's comments and can't bring myself to read the other two yet.

I'm not sure what to make of this post. On the one hand it breaks my heart to think of children living in that kind of situation on the other I feel a little like I'm being manipulated. Not that the kids experiences weren't awful, more that the notion that one family adopting as many children as possible will somehow fix the problem.

Well, I guess I'll go back and try to read through Ava and Ellie's interviews without tearing up.

I read it. To be honest I would not expect her to say anything negative, it IS what she chooses to do. She does generally come across as honest and well meaning. I guess the proof will be maybe asking these children in 10 or so years.

All those kids are just super cute. There is one who has a smile who makes me smile every time I see it.

I'm almost all the way through her blog now. I do wonder how her older kids feel about her 'newish' religious ardour. She does say she did not raise her older kids in the same manner.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Adeye says Hasya is blind, or as good as.

But God will heal her if we pray hard enough.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Adeye says Hasya is blind, or as good as.

But God will heal her if we pray hard enough.

I'm still wondering how her leg is.

[C Potter-Pirbright]

I'm still wondering how her leg is.

Same here. Adeye's last few posts to me hint a bit like she might have realised that she's bitten off a bit more than she can chew, but of course God will fix it all if she prays hard enough.

[dianapavelovna]

Gah! I have so many feels about Adeye and Jean's latest entries, but it's late and I have to be up early. Hopefully I'll have more time to post coherent thoughts tomorrow.

And even though my heart is aching because this is just one more thing Hasya will have to deal with in her life and everything in me wants to yell, "Enough already!"... I'll choose to walk by faith and not by sight!

Is she fucking serious? Was that an intentional pun? I know it's a garden variety fundie platitude, but c'mon.

[greek_chorus]

I hope I don't sound insensitive because I really don't mean to be, but it seems like blindness is the least of Hasya's problems. It would be great if she could see her surroundings and the people who are now her family, but with all the other issues she has being blind would be pretty low on my list of priorities for her care.

Does anyone with experience in super-high-special-needs-kids have any idea what kind of life expectancy a child like Hasya has? It makes me wonder how you would plan for long-term care for her as a child let alone as an adult if she outlives her parents.

I have to say, the photos of her smiling make my heart melt.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I hope I don't sound insensitive because I really don't mean to be, but it seems like blindness is the least of Hasya's problems. It would be great if she could see her surroundings and the people who are now her family, but with all the other issues she has being blind would be pretty low on my list of priorities for her care.

Does anyone with experience in super-high-special-needs-kids have any idea what kind of life expectancy a child like Hasya has? It makes me wonder how you would plan for long-term care for her as a child let alone as an adult if she outlives her parents.

I have to say, the photos of her smiling make my heart melt.

Thing is, it's not just long term care for her - they now have FIVE kids who are likely to never live independently, and only four who will presumably grow up to get usual jobs.

Just to put it very bluntly, that's not a good ratio. Families struggle to find placement for ONE kid who will need life-long minding, and they've got FIVE, plus neither of the parents earns a ton of money so it isn't as if they can be setting aside large trust funds or anything. It's great that there's love, it really is. But love isn't going to pay all of the very real bills.