Child Collectors Extraordinaire

[Mama Mia]

Annie's adopted Russian son killed himself - after months of complaining about hearing/seeing demons. Aware severe mental illness ran in his biofamily, she elected to delight in his newfound interest in the bible rather than be concerned his hallucinations. For months and months.

Maybe the poor kid was so far gone that nothing would've helped. But I can't help but think that getting him TREATMENT sooner, from state-licensed healthcare providers might've made a difference:

"The Catholic Church does not teach that mental illness is caused by demons, but I'm not sure why not. Especially for Elya, there was a spiritual battle going on. I rather wish I'd thought earlier of having him receive the Sacrament of Anointing - even Exorcism. I'd stop at nothing to save him. From the very beginning, his response to his psychosis was to get a Bible, to carry it around and even to memorize verses from it. Why didn't I take him seriously?"

http://nelliemcfall.blogspot.com/2012/1 ... guess.html

Again, this woman is, IMHO, awful in the way she treats the daughter and in the way she portrays her sons suicide -- like it's some kind of small side note. Very, very strange.

But -- you are misrepresenting her in saying she didn't try to get her son help for his mental illness and only relied on religion to treat him.

She states that he had already been admitted, twice, for inpatient mental health treatment. The psychiatric hospital she names ( assuming I googled the correct one) seems completely legitimate.

She also states that she and her husband knew he needed to be re-admitted. She talks about the ( understandable) regret she has on not pushing harder to get him there immediately.

I think it's an important distinction because too often people assume that once someone with a mental illness is seen by a professional / receives treatment/ obtains medication the situation is under control and everything is better. When often that is most definitely not the case.

Edited to correct some details.

[KateFowler]

You're right -Annie did eventually realise her son was mentally and did try to get him help. My issue is with her actions in the months that preceded that -- when her heretofore easygoing and anti-religion kid stopped going to school, got expelled, started spending hours/days memorizing bible verses. Why not take the kid to a doctor to get him checked out given that you KNOW there's a history of severe mental illness in his family? When his half-sister (aka pregnant 14 yo) was concurrently struggling biiiiig time?

Maybe it wouldn't've made a difference... but a two-three month head start addressing his mental illness? Maybe it could've??

[Mama Mia]

You're right -Annie did eventually realise her son was mentally and did try to get him help. My issue is with her actions in the months that preceded that -- when her heretofore easygoing and anti-religion kid stopped going to school, got expelled, started spending hours/days memorizing bible verses. Why not take the kid to a doctor to get him checked out given that you KNOW there's a history of severe mental illness in his family? When his half-sister (aka pregnant 14 yo) was concurrently struggling biiiiig time?

Maybe it wouldn't've made a difference... but a two-three month head start addressing his mental illness? Maybe it could've??

Again, you seem to be misrepresenting the situation. She got her son into in-patient psychiatric treatment twice, and was working on a third in-patient treatment. Hampered by his refusal to cooperate. I'm not sure if you're aware, but actually getting an adult size person to a place they don't want to go is extremely difficult. And the police will only help if the person is , right that second, a clear threat to themselves or others.

Also, when dealing with teens with issues you do not just go immediately from first day of refusing school, or developing a new obsession, to in-patient psychiatric treatment. A normal first reaction is going to be " hmm, weird/aggravating phase" , next would be taking to the kid about what's going on , demanding school attendance/ being blown off, escalation to constant family arguments, insistence on counseling, making the appointment with the therapist - which can take weeks, a few meetings, probably attempts at medications, severity increases, discussion with therapist about in-patient treatment -- and then hospital admission. Unless he went from one day attending school and being a " normal" teen to the very next day hallucinating and being a dangerous, violent threat to himself and his family--- it's a process that takes time. It just does.

[patsymae]

çbut the girls have said that the noise doesn't wake them up anymore, but us coming in does. So, we let her s'mope"

OK-- I hate to think about it, but what is "s'mope'?" What is going on in your home that your children have learned that that you not being there is normal but you coming in is unusual.

" We used to try to get up and stop her, but the girls have said that the noise doesn't wake them up anymore, but us coming in does. So, we let her s'mope."

Or maybe anybody with a brain or a soul would try to get away and not be a s'mope"

[KateFowler]

Again, you seem to be misrepresenting the situation. She got her son into in-patient psychiatric treatment twice, and was working on a third in-patient treatment. Hampered by his refusal to cooperate. I'm not sure if you're aware, but actually getting an adult size person to a place they don't want to go is extremely difficult. And the police will only help if the person is , right that second, a clear threat to themselves or others.

Also, when dealing with teens with issues you do not just go immediately from first day of refusing school, or developing a new obsession, to in-patient psychiatric treatment. A normal first reaction is going to be " hmm, weird/aggravating phase" , next would be taking to the kid about what's going on , demanding school attendance/ being blown off, escalation to constant family arguments, insistence on counseling, making the appointment with the therapist - which can take weeks, a few meetings, probably attempts at medications, severity increases, discussion with therapist about in-patient treatment -- and then hospital admission. Unless he went from one day attending school and being a " normal" teen to the very next day hallucinating and being a dangerous, violent threat to himself and his family--- it's a process that takes time. It just does.

Well, I come from a family with a boatload of mental illness severe enough to warrant a psychiatrist, meds and the occasional in-patient stay starting in grade school. Going back two generations.

My younger sister K got the fuzzy end of the lollipop -- a mood disorder diagnosis as a grade schooler. She had 7-8 longish in-patients stints, at an amazing pediatric hospital w/psych unit (treated by many of the same doctors who treated our mom as a girl). She's alive, college-educated and employed at almost-28 as a result.

Getting a kid diagnosed with a severe MI, re-admitted to the hospital that diagnosed her because she's a danger to herself or others? Isn't that hard. Especially on "only" 72 hr involuntary mental health hold -- under the Baker Act.

My family had the friendly local mental health transport unit practically on speed dial -- they had admitting privileges to the pediatric psych unit, thereby bypassing the 14+ hrs of hell that is trying to get a kid admitted via the ER. "K is scaring us again" were the magic words.

(As a sophomore at an out if state college, I had a bad breakup that resulted in a week in-patient -- courtesy of my sis/mom's doctor, who called in a favor. The magic words were apparently "boatload of interesting, likely hereditary MIs" and "is a participant in [big deal ongoing study").

Plus, Annie's son was 16-17, a minor, when his MI presented. She/her husband had the power to admit him.

[Mama Mia]

Well, I come from a family with a boatload of mental illness severe enough to warrant a psychiatrist, meds and the occasional in-patient stay starting in grade school. Going back two generations.

My younger sister K got the fuzzy end of the lollipop -- a mood disorder diagnosis as a grade schooler. She had 7-8 longish in-patients stints, at an amazing pediatric hospital w/psych unit (treated by many of the same doctors who treated our mom as a girl). She's alive, college-educated and employed at almost-28 as a result.

Getting a kid diagnosed with a severe MI, re-admitted to the hospital that diagnosed her because she's a danger to herself or others? Isn't that hard. Especially on "only" 72 hr involuntary mental health hold -- under the Baker Act.

My family had the friendly local mental health transport unit practically on speed dial -- they had admitting privileges to the pediatric psych unit, thereby bypassing the 14+ hrs of hell that is trying to get a kid admitted via the ER. "K is scaring us again" were the magic words.

(As a sophomore at an out if state college, I had a bad breakup that resulted in a week in-patient -- courtesy of my sis/mom's doctor, who called in a favor. The magic words were apparently "boatload of interesting, likely hereditary MIs" and "is a participant in [big deal ongoing study").

Plus, Annie's son was 16-17, a minor, when his MI presented. She/her husband had the power to admit him.

She DID have him admitted, twice. AND was working on the third time.

As she said on her blog entry, the problem wasn't getting him admitted, it was getting him TO the facility if he wasn't so far gone AT THAT MOMENT that the police would intervene. And at 16 or 17, yes, he's still a minor, but you can't just bundle him into a car against his will without someone getting injured, or his jumping out at a stop light. There is also always the question of when to call for emergency help. If he's calm at that moment, the police and emergency rom will do nothing. And at 16 or 17, if he wasn't actively halucinating, he may very well have known what to say to keep from being forcibly admitted.

That's wonderful your sister is doing well, and that your insurance covered every stay at an amazing psychiatric hospital, and that the local mental health team was so co-operative, and that the medications worked so well. Surely you are aware that this combination of factors is Not the experience for many people?

It seems very unfair to portray this mother as, first, not even trying to get her son help - and then insisting she could of done more. When it certainly sounds like she was at least trying to get her son the help he needed.

[KateFowler]

She DID have him admitted, twice. AND was working on the third time.

As she said on her blog entry, the problem wasn't getting him admitted, it was getting him TO the facility if he wasn't so far gone AT THAT MOMENT that the police would intervene. And at 16 or 17, yes, he's still a minor, but you can't just bundle him into a car against his will without someone getting injured, or his jumping out at a stop light. There is also always the question of when to call for emergency help. If he's calm at that moment, the police and emergency rom will do nothing. And at 16 or 17, if he wasn't actively halucinating, he may very well have known what to say to keep from being forcibly admitted.

That's wonderful your sister is doing well, and that your insurance covered every stay at an amazing psychiatric hospital, and that the local mental health team was so co-operative, and that the medications worked so well. Surely you are aware that this combination of factors is Not the experience for many people?

It seems very unfair to portray this mother as, first, not even trying to get her son help - and then insisting she could of done more. When it certainly sounds like she was at least trying to get her son the help he needed.

I dunno -- given the sheer volume of mental health scaffolding my family has required for a loooong time, it seems unlikely that we'd get "lucky" over and over. Maybe we did - pretty good insurance, city with excellent hospital & long, long relationships w/array of mental health professionals. The latter, I guess, could be considered "luck". It is pretty unusual to have 3 generations of folks with MIs to study over decades, so my fam is "medically interesting" & "good sports" about participating in research/studies, which physician-scientists love.

[Cheetah]

Have any of you read Smiles and Trials lately? That Natalie is sure a cutie-pie and the boys are getting big.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

So I just read her latest post and comments. There's a comment from Laurel ... remember Mama D's dozen? She mentioned that she's been offline for over a year but thinking about blogging again. She was one of my favorite snark-reads. She flounced spectacularly a little over a year ago when a former FJer outed a thread here to her.

[littlehouse]

Smiles and Trials has gone private. Or at least it has for me. Boo. I have been reading there forever. I wonder what set it off?

[KateFowler]

The worst kind "saving orphans for Jesus" -- she not only fundraiser pretty much all adoption costs, not only went to Ukraine without enough money to complete ONE adoption but added a SECOND adoption of an unrelated kid while she was at it:

http://www.postzero.com/adoption_journey

[HighlandCow]

I just heard about this documentary, made in 1977, which won the Academy award for best documentary in 1978. Apparently five members of the production crew lived with the DeBolts for 2+ years while filming. Not sure if it was all five at once for the whole time.

Has anyone seen this documentary?