Maxwell parents naive or just simple?

[Jana814]

Pa and Ma Maxwell are neither simple nor naive. They know exactly what they've done: turned their home into a stalag. Actually, the kids would be better off if it WAS a stalag. They would then feel obliged, as captive officers did, to plot their escape.

I agree with you on this statement, I think their whole ministry went up when Joseph wedding was called off, I also believe like what someone else said that they are BOTH mentally ill. Steve TOOK advantage of Terri during a time in her life when things were not going so well for her, and now that things are somewhat better he not only has brainwashed her and their kids, but also her parents. I wonder if her parents were not brainwashed would they have tried to get Terri and their grandchildren away from Steve.

All of them from the kids to unfortually the grandchildren have no social skills, they do not now how to deal with people in the real world. Their latest posting talks about the music the kids played at the church, and a picture that Sarah posted was of elderly people watching. I want to shake Steve and Terri, and maybe even Nathan, and say it might be to late for your kids to gain some social skills but it is not to late for Nathan children, give them a chance to have friends their own age, and not have to rely on their siblings.

[IceTwinkie]

What's more important is maintaining daily contact with children, and knowing who they hang out with, what their interests are, and where they go. I believe it's far riskier if parents let kids skip dinners with them every night than it is to let them have their own rooms. The Maxwells seem to believe any risk, however small must be nipped.

This. My mother was always encouraging our friends to come over and hang out/play etc. Our house was the neighborhood hangout/halfway house. And because my father insisted that no matter what, we all sit down as a family for dinner, there was always at least one or two extra people at the table. I once asked my mother if she ever resented the constant noise and mess. She said that this way, she always knew who we were hanging out with and what we were doing. She also said that it was also a way for her to provide a safe place for our friends and other neighborhood kids to come to after school. (This was in the 70’s when the whole “latchkey†kid phenomenon was new) When my mother passed away 10 years ago, my siblings and I were surprised and touched at how many childhood friends, many of whom we hadn't seen or talked to in years, showed up at her funeral. Many of them spoke of how she was a second mother and how she helped and encouraged them. I don’t mean to ramble but what I guess what I am trying to say is that you can allow your children to have some autonomy, friends, etc. and still have a positive influence on not only them but their friends as well.

[Guest Anonymous]

Steve TOOK advantage of Terri during a time in her life when things were not going so well for her, and now that things are somewhat better he not only has brainwashed her and their kids, but also her parents. I wonder if her parents were not brainwashed would they have tried to get Terri and their grandchildren away from Steve.

Steve hasn't brainwashed Teri's parents. Grandpa has advanced dementia and Gigi is his full-time carer. They have lived in Leavenworth longer than Steve and Teri and attend a local church. Gigi has her own Facebook account and is in regular touch with Teri's sister, and she and Grandpa have been on a cruise and spent time with Teri's sister's family in the last year or so. Teri's sister belongs to certain spiritual-abuse focused Facebook groups that suggest she recognises her BIL as something like a cult leader.

[Jana814]

Steve hasn't brainwashed Teri's parents. Grandpa has advanced dementia and Gigi is his full-time carer. They have lived in Leavenworth longer than Steve and Teri and attend a local church. Gigi has her own Facebook account and is in regular touch with Teri's sister, and she and Grandpa have been on a cruise and spent time with Teri's sister's family in the last year or so. Teri's sister belongs to certain spiritual-abuse focused Facebook groups that suggest she recognises her BIL as something like a cult leader.

Thank you for that information!! I really had no idea. I am soo happy that her sister reconizes her BIL as a cult leader.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Steve hasn't brainwashed Teri's parents. Grandpa has advanced dementia and Gigi is his full-time carer. They have lived in Leavenworth longer than Steve and Teri and attend a local church. Gigi has her own Facebook account and is in regular touch with Teri's sister, and she and Grandpa have been on a cruise and spent time with Teri's sister's family in the last year or so. Teri's sister belongs to certain spiritual-abuse focused Facebook groups that suggest she recognises her BIL as something like a cult leader.

Im happy to hear that there are Maxwell relatives who would help if one of the children decided to run away.

[Guest Anonymous]

I am soo happy that her sister reconizes her BIL as a cult leader.

I said Tami's fb 'likes' suggests that. She has said nothing publicly to that effect.

[Jana814]

I said Tami's fb 'likes' suggests that. She has said nothing publicly to that effect.

Got it, it does make u wonder though, if she liked a page like that.

[Guest Anonymous]

Got it, it does make u wonder though, if she liked a page like that.

It would certainly be hard to miss! I just didn't want to attribute anything to her that she hasn't said directly. :)

[Aisling]

Neither - I think Steve and Teri are mentally ill. Extreme religious scrupulosity is a form of OCD. From the Wikipedia definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrupulosity

this.

the thought of the lack of privacy makes my skin crawl. I physically need time on my own

[gardenvarietycitizen]

That's it! They lack faith in their own skills as parents and in their own kids to have their own moral compass. How can they be so untrustworthy of being functioning adults one day and then married the next and sent out on their own? I don't get that.

I think another part of this whole thing is that the idea of "sheltering" became an idol to them. They came up with it when the kids were young, kept tightening the noose to do it "better," but also got famous for preaching about it to others. Probably at some point at least unconsciously they became loathe to spoil their "record" and so they just can't let go now.

It's the "I must protect my child's innocence" as the number one principle of the entire household, and they don't know how to transition into anything else. The irony is of course that as their kids aren't moving on into adulthood, it's tarnishing the whole image of sheltering (for those who ever would have found some allure to it).

[Hane]

This. My mother was always encouraging our friends to come over and hang out/play etc. Our house was the neighborhood hangout/halfway house. And because my father insisted that no matter what, we all sit down as a family for dinner, there was always at least one or two extra people at the table. I once asked my mother if she ever resented the constant noise and mess. She said that this way, she always knew who we were hanging out with and what we were doing. She also said that it was also a way for her to provide a safe place for our friends and other neighborhood kids to come to after school. (This was in the 70’s when the whole “latchkey†kid phenomenon was new) When my mother passed away 10 years ago, my siblings and I were surprised and touched at how many childhood friends, many of whom we hadn't seen or talked to in years, showed up at her funeral. Many of them spoke of how she was a second mother and how she helped and encouraged them. I don’t mean to ramble but what I guess what I am trying to say is that you can allow your children to have some autonomy, friends, etc. and still have a positive influence on not only them but their friends as well.

IceTwinkie, you mom sounds wonderful. What she did took much more work than the isolation practiced in MaxHell does.

(forgive me if I've posted this before) Steve reminds me of an old "Can This Marriage Be Saved?" article years ago in Ladies' Home Journal. In it, a couple had been married quite a few years, had a couple of kids, and the husband had a vasectomy. Several years later, he underwent a huge religious resurgence (he was Catholic, IIRC), and, among other things, wanted to get his vasectomy reversed so they could have more kids. His wife was NOT on board with this. With the counselor, they worked out some lifestyle compromises (such as a special space in the house for him to use as a chapel) which did not include vasectomy reversal and having more kids.

Usually, I pretty much agree with the counselors in these articles, but, in this one, I saw a huge red flag he missed (or chose not to address for cultural reasons): Sudden hyperreligiosity can be a sign of mental illness. I wonder whether this kind of red flag goes unnoticed in people like Steve, and in certain cultures/geographical areas, because religion is automatically considered "good," and therefore being super-duper religious is "even better."

Wouldn't it be interesting if Steve had some kind of undiagnosed brain tumor or trauma? (I say this with all sympathy to people who have actually suffered such traumas: One of my friends went from surly introvert to sweet, creative life of the party after brain cancer. Sadly, he recently passed away in this 50s.)

[RosyDaisy]

I think they are stupid, controlling, fundie freaks who have brainwashed their kids. It wouldn't shock me in the least if that "closeness" between the siblngs lasts, because it's been programmed into their minds.

[BornFree]

I agree with several other posters. In this family it's ALL about parental control. Teri in Mom's corner says, There are times when they have different opinions that spark lively discussions. How can you have a lively discussion in a family culture that forbids absolutely any opinion about anything that differs from Steve's opinion?

[Seven Severn]

It was so sweet to see some elderly there.

Elderly. Not some elderly people. Not some elderly folks. Just some elderly. They're objects to be condescended to, not human beings with personalities. Just some elderly. :angry-teeth:

Sorry for the tangent.

[Jana814]

I think they are stupid, controlling, fundie freaks who have brainwashed their kids. It wouldn't shock me in the least if that "closeness" between the siblngs lasts, because it's been programmed into their minds.

AGREE!!

[Jana814]

I agree with several other posters. In this family it's ALL about parental control. Teri in Mom's corner says, There are times when they have different opinions that spark lively discussions. How can you have a lively discussion in a family culture that forbids absolutely any opinion about anything that differs from Steve's opinion?

Agree again!! They CAN'T have an opinion that is different from STEVE!! If they do G-d knows what will happen!

[Vex]

Normally I am the last person to speculate on the sexuality of fundie kids - mostly because I believe most of them don't have it in them to recognise they are gay even if they were - but I can't help but really worry in the Maxwell household. IF one of those "children" were gay and were not allowed to masturbate or acknowledge sexual desire in any way, what if all that forced time together with their same-gender accountability buddies turned into a crush or something? They have no other young people to develop crushes on because they're so extremely isolated.

I mean, even if they're straight as arrows it's going to severely damage them. I really hope none of them is gay because the potential damage is even worse there.

[kpmom]

Elderly. Not some elderly people. Not some elderly folks. Just some elderly. They're objects to be condescended to, not human beings with personalities. Just some elderly. :angry-teeth:

Sorry for the tangent.

It's so disrespectful to call them that. Someone on the blog mentioned it in the comments awhile back, and Steve answered that he thought it was a sweet or precious ( I forget his exact words) way to refer to older people. Blech.

Now that Steve is over 60 can we refer to him as the elderly fuck, or would that be disrespectful?

ETA: They're making poppy seed loaves as a caroling treat. Let's hope none of their neighbors has to take a drug test the next day.

[TMS]

I know TWO different women from different families who were sexually abused by their older SISTERS with whom they shared a room. Sharing rooms does not guarantee the kids will stay "pure" and hold each other "accountable."

[doggie]

As others have said they never have grown up they don't know how to resist them because they have no opportunity to do them and understand them. The duggers do the same thing. this purity thing just make very weak people who won't be able to handle real life if they ever get exposed to it.

[doggie]

I know TWO different women from different families who were sexually abused by their older SISTERS with whom they shared a room. Sharing rooms does not guarantee the kids will stay "pure" and hold each other "accountable."

well when you have a dorm type situation with everyone a tattle tale it makes it pretty hard.

[IceTwinkie]

Normally I am the last person to speculate on the sexuality of fundie kids - mostly because I believe most of them don't have it in them to recognise they are gay even if they were - but I can't help but really worry in the Maxwell household. IF one of those "children" were gay and were not allowed to masturbate or acknowledge sexual desire in any way, what if all that forced time together with their same-gender accountability buddies turned into a crush or something? They have no other young people to develop crushes on because they're so extremely isolated.

I mean, even if they're straight as arrows it's going to severely damage them. I really hope none of them is gay because the potential damage is even worse there.

You get shades of "Flowers in the Attic"

[Closed Womb]

When families write us about problems their children have gotten into concerning the Internet, their phones, outside relationships, music, and more, those children often had their own bedrooms. They had the privacy to give in to temptation when they were faced with it.

Poor only-girl Wizzy, obviously going to hell.

[Bloo]

This would have worked so well with my siblings. When we weren't physically at one another's throats, we were plotting against our parents! They gave us separate rooms for their own sanity.

[jenny_islander]

Poor only-girl Wizzy, obviously going to hell.

Fixed that for her.

"Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."--Some shabby homeless guy who hung out with hookers and foreigners and didn't obey his patriarch and drank wine and probably danced too