Maxwell parents naive or just simple?

[lilwriter85]

The more I read about Steve Maxwell, the more I think he wouldn't have been out of place in Puritan times...

I agree with this. I think some of the other fundie familes we discuss here are very controlling with their kids, but Steve takes up a few notches. The Duggars, Muncks, and other families do let their kids have fun and at least watch some movies. I get the strong feeling that the Duggars only allow their kids to be friends with kids from other fundie families. But they at least let their kids spend some time with there friends like going out to eat lunch and similar things.

With Steve, siblings have to be friends and they are the only friend you need. Steve is against youth groups because he seems them as and the leaders as threats to his authority. Another fundie couple that I think that is very controlling and is close to Maxwell level is Steve "PP" and ZsuZsu Anderson. Zsu admits that she only trusts her mother-in-law to babysit the kids. She only recently allowed a church member to stay with the kids for a few hours while she took one of the boys to an urgent care clinic. Someone sent Zsu a question on the blog about vacation bible school and Zsu responded that if FWBC did VBS it would be a program in which parents would also have to attend. The only time Zsu's kids interact with the church kids is on Sundays and the occasional extra church event. She could have playdates at the church or do youth group type activities but they are against age segregated programs at the church. Zsu's kids hang out with each other 24/7. There is nothing wrong with wanting kids to be close to their siblings. But with Zsu, she does activities that likely are not enjoyed by all of the kids. Solomon and Issac are close to their teen years now and at some point they are going to be annoyed with doing activities with their younger siblings.

[moodygirl86]

Totally agree. Steve can't take orders from ANYONE other than Steve. He'd probably have pissed off his Puritan brothers pretty quickly. He's also supremely lazy. He seems to be happy to sit back and let his wife and children do all the heavy lifting and work. He seems to spend a lot of alone time in his study. No doubt doing things that he'd never let his children do on the internet. Probably spends a few hours a day trolling this forum. Then off to some porn and maybe online games. He'll come down and read some Bible and eat some dinner.

I know! One thing I've noticed about fundies is how they seem to want to model themselves on people from a past era, but get far more obsessive and extreme about it than Puritans/Victorians etc would've been. And they think idolatry is wrong? Their idols would be turning in their graves!

[VodouDoll]

The Maxwells at times have very crappy towards the nursing home residents. I hated when Steve called them "castaways from society" or something like that.

This is some especially noxious hypocrisy on Steve's part, considering his mother is in an Alzheimer's home and Steve never visits her, leaving all her care to his sister. He wants praise for his ministry to people he considers society's castoffs while casting off his own mother. I guess the commandment about honoring your parents only applies to Steve's children, not Steve himself.

And, yeah, he said he started his one-man show at the nursing home to shelter his kids from talking to people outside his sphere of influence. It's one of the points on the destructive cult indoctrination checklist, to remove cult members' contact with nonmembers so they won't realize they're being manipulated and abused.

Cults may not allow unsupervised contact with the "outside world." In this way, there is no chance for a "reality check" or validation of a new member's concerns regarding the group. Cults typically instill the belief that "outsiders" (non-cult members) are dangerous and wrong.

(source: http://people.howstuffworks.com/cult.htm)

[YPestis]

I'm convinced the nursing home gig was a way to prevent his kids from socializing with anyone that exposes the children to nonSteve approved ideas. A young woman Sarah's age is far more likely to expose Sarah to "worldly", "secular" fun than an 80 year old woman who struggles to dress herself. It prevents his kids from meeting people that they may form relationships that gets between the Maxwell parents and the kids.

I don't think Steve would fit well into any society. Most of the older societies that fundies look up to require active community involvement, with expectations that their children mix with non-siblings. In fact, societies in the past required close ties with neighbors because a nuclear family would be hard pressed to survive against the harshness of the world. With no homeowner insurance, neighbors help with rebuilding of homes after destruction. With no welfare and food stamps, family and neighbors donate food and money. Without a working nationalized police network, the community set up local security. Without modern medicine, families are left decimated by transmittable diseases and depend on relatives to shelter them. Only the very rich man can afford to live independently. Even in religious societies, Steve may have to defer to others in church matters.

It's interesting that while fundies revere the "good old days", the complete control and isolation some practice would not made possible without modern conveniences that they take for granted or disparage as evil, secular inventions.

[lilwriter85]

If Nathan and Melanie didn't have children that are over toddler age, maybe Steve could have done the following. He could went around and begged for money from various wealth people, he could built up a good chunk of money. He could have purchased thousands of acres of land and set up boundaries and then he could announce to his famlly that they were going to start living as if it the 1880s or 1890s. Oh wait, that was the plot of a book and movie.

[ems]

I agree with several other posters. In this family it's ALL about parental control. Teri in Mom's corner says, There are times when they have different opinions that spark lively discussions. How can you have a lively discussion in a family culture that forbids absolutely any opinion about anything that differs from Steve's opinion?

It's probably similar to the Duggars, where the "differences" are on things such as liking pickles or not, and that is as "lively" as the discussion will get.

[ceg045]

Let's keep in mind, this is the family for whom an eyeglasses case rattling under a car seat provided hours of laughs. "Lively" is relative.

[ems]

I'm convinced the nursing home gig was a way to prevent his kids from socializing with anyone that exposes the children to nonSteve approved ideas. A young woman Sarah's age is far more likely to expose Sarah to "worldly", "secular" fun than an 80 year old woman who struggles to dress herself. It prevents his kids from meeting people that they may form relationships that gets between the Maxwell parents and the kids.

The ironic thing about this is that for all his ranting on the evils of "age segregation" in church, he is using a form of age segregation to keep any "ungodly" influences from his kids, by preventing them from interacting with anyone but The Elderly.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I'm told that the average old folks' home might as well be a geriatric singles cruise with all the bedhopping going on. Can you imagine old Steve finding out!!

I wonder if his "elderly" sit and stare solemnly at him and let him feel all preacherly and stuff because they need snark fodder for boring Tuesday afternoons, and they know that if they actually laughed at him while he was in the room he would run away.

It's possible most of the demented ones that the staff are happy to have in one place for an hour. They have blank, vacant looks and hum and/or sing along to the hymns. The demented elderly, not Steve & Co.

Residents have to be asked if they want to attend the service or not. So the ones who see through Steve's BS are not in attendance.

[lilwriter85]

My grandma lived in a nursing home for several months prior to her death. She had dementia and she probably would have probably gone to a Maxwell service mainly because she wouldn't have been able to see through Steve's B.S. Maybe some of the residents who attend the services do see through the B.S., but they go just to pass time or just hear scripture. I do wonder if the nursing home employees think if something is off with the Maxwells.

[JesusFightClub]

My nana (great-gran) had dementia and she was chill with it. She liked to just lie in her bed and watch the soaps. She thought all the characters in them were real and if you sat with her she'd get very animated telling you what everyone had been up to. "Can you believe it? He hit his own SISTER. Now, if I had a sister, I wouldn't hit her ever. Are you listening to me, sweetheart? It's very important that you don't hit YOUR sister." (She thought I was my mum and she wasn't 100 percent sure who my mum was. My mum has a sister, I don't.)

She was also very sweet and she'd look at me or my mum for a bit and say "So pretty" and the same with the nurses, who all loved her. She seemed to have gone off into a world where everything was rose-tinted and she was just relaxing. I hope if I make it that far I go like that.

However she wouldn't have been any state to "accept Jesus" and nor would she even know what you were asking her to do. She might have thought that Jesus was a character on a soap (she'd pretty much forgotten everything that wasn't a soap) or she might say something like "My Bill (her dead husband) he knew a Jesus once" or say something that made no sense like "I had a cat called Jesus and it was big."

I bet that's what The Elderly are usually like where the Maxwells minister, which makes their efforts pretty useless.

[Kitty]

Having a room of one's own (sorry, the Lit geek couldn't resist quoting Woolf, especially HERE) is not mutually exclusive to issues with computer use, phone use, etc. as Teri implies they might be abused. I went to college late in life and watched kids show the stuff on their phones with their FRIENDS! The Max girls could still do this, but something tells me that all iphones are confiscated by God...errrr....Steve...when they head upstairs to sleep after their evening devotionals. My best guess is that the timer is set for those to conclude at 8:00 SHARP.

I bet those conferences when they have to stay up past their bedtime are hell on them, but "tests to the spirit" (in my best Steve posting "voice").

OT: Showers are, of course, rotated, except for God and Wife, who certainly have their own bathing quarters. Dog help Mary, who really needs to wash and condition her hair daily; it looks like shit. Poor Mary has adolescent hair; oily at the roots, dry on the ends. Sarah may have chopped off a lot of hair, but her hair is also oily and should be washed daily instead of combed out. I still sort of have that hair (I am trying to skip a day of If washing, but I'm almost 20 years older years than Sarah), but I can't leave the house that way, except for a quick run to the store. If I wash every day, I now need to condition, which I never had do even 2 or 3 years ago.

Those women are apparently "working" Teri's hair care regimen, since in Maxhell, One Size Fits All, even if it doesn't. Anna's hair is an especially hot mess (a lot like young Teri, but I bet Teri took better care of her friz).

I hate the dorms, but the uniformity beyond that is even more disturbing.

I don't know what Teri's hair care regimen is, but all of the women are probably already shampooing and conditioning their hair every day. I still have adolescent hair and it's much better for me to condition it every other day. When you stick your hair under hot water and apply shampoo to it every single day, you're stripping your scalp of oil it actually needs, and drying your hair out. The conditioner just makes it easier to brush. There are some very harsh, drying chemicals in shampoo that most people don't need on their heads, especially every single day.

Of course, Not One Size Fits All, but whatever hair care regimen the Maxwell women use is probably not that much different from what other women use, which is most certainly One Size Fits All.

[Jana814]

I do wonder if the nursing home employees think if something is off with the Maxwells.

I wonder the same thing about the workers at the home. If they want to step in & say something to Steve but don't for fear they might loose their job.

[precious_one]

I wonder the same thing about the workers at the home. If they want to step in & say something to Steve but don't for fear they might loose their job.

I bet the Maxwells are the butt of many break room jokes.

I have been very bored today so I read through some of the Maxwell's old blog and I really don't like how they refer to the residents of the nursing home as the elderly.

[lilwriter85]

I agree precious_one, they are probably the butt of jokes between the nurses. Part of the reason I wonder about the employees' feelings is because I know people who work or have worked in nursing homes. When I was in college, I had a friend who worked at a nursing home as recreational activities assistant, her duties included sometimes supervising volunteers who came in to do activities. My friend used to get annoyed with some volunteers. A guy friend of mine was a CNA at a nursing home for a couple of years and he used to get annoyed with one of the Protestant ministers who used to visit with the residents. Right now, the only person that I know who currently works at a nursing home is a friend who is a nurse, but she works nights. So she isn't around volunteers or clergy.

I can see the Maxwells being the butt of jokes for different reasons. Sarah and the reversal kids are stunted. The employees likely sense that and there are probably employees that are the same age as Sarah or the same ages of the boys. Some of those employees also probably laugh at the reason that the Maxwells hold services there. Religious services are common in nursing homes, but they aren't done with an entire family. My friend who was a CNA, said that Catholic deacon or priest would take turns holding mass or communion services. The Protestant ministers most of the time held services without anyone else assisting them. If the employees are concerned with the Maxwells and want to say something, I don't think their jobs would be at risk since the Maxwells are basically volunteers.

I also don't like how the Maxwells refer to the residents as the elderly. Someday they might have to do deal with a younger nursing home resident. My friends said there were younger severely disabled people at the places they worked at. My CNA friend told me about a man who was a quadriplegic who lived at a nursing home for several months while his family remodeled their home.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I do wonder what the staff at the nursing home thinks of the Maxwells, and I also wonder just what sort of relationship they have going on there.

It's the Maxwell blog, so you know that never in a million years will they tell you what anyone else or any other groups might be doing, but it's entirely possible that the Maxwells are just one in a number of religious groups that come in at the weekend, maybe there's a Catholic service or more mainstream Protestant service in addition to them.

[Jana814]

I do wonder what the staff at the nursing home thinks of the Maxwells, and I also wonder just what sort of relationship they have going on there.

It's the Maxwell blog, so you know that never in a million years will they tell you what anyone else or any other groups might be doing, but it's entirely possible that the Maxwells are just one in a number of religious groups that come in at the weekend, maybe there's a Catholic service or more mainstream Protestant service in addition to them.

I could be wrong but I seem to remember reading on the blog that they r the only ones that do any kind of service @ the home. Not sure if their r other clergy who come to visit residence their though.

[Convicted Blossom]

I'm kinda suprised that the nursing home tolerates the Maxwells as Steve, Sarah and co demonstrate no respect whatsoever for the elderly. If anyone approached my 86 year mother (who lives safely with us) like that I'd kick them in the balls. How utterly offensive to assume that a lifetime means nothing, that they can "save" someone who, at the end of their life is suggestible, perhaps hard of hearing or visually impaired.

[Jana814]

I'm kinda suprised that the nursing home tolerates the Maxwells as Steve, Sarah and co demonstrate no respect whatsoever for the elderly. If anyone approached my 86 year mother (who lives safely with us) like that I'd kick them in the balls. How utterly offensive to assume that a lifetime means nothing, that they can "save" someone who, at the end of their life is suggestible, perhaps hard of hearing or visually impaired.

I agree with you. I also don't get why the nursing home allows them to do it. I wonder if they tell a patient and family about this before the person comes because that could a reason for someone to either not go in their or to go in their.

The Nursing homes in my area don't allow a religious service at the homes, but they do have clergery (priest, Rabbi, Reverand,) that come to see a resident.

[precious_one]

The Maxwell's traveling circus reminds of the old time traveling tent revivals back in the day accept they have brick and mortar venues now.

[SisiL78]

I have volunteered at nursing homes for holiday things and they are miserable places, even at Christmas. So many people can't even drive ten minutes and bring the grandkids over on Christmas or Thanksgiving to say hi to Grandma, and "the elderly" sit there hoping that they won't be forgotten. THe nurses and aides are overwhelmed and put the residents in their wheelchairs for "hall time" where they just sit there in those chairs staring into nothing.

The thing is that these folks still have working minds, they have just been forgotten.

I don't know how the nursing home the Maxwells frequent operates but I suspect that the nurses/aides are just happy for someone to distract the residents for an hour a week. And the residents might really enjoy the change of pace. Plus the Maxwells now have a bunch of babies that they bring along, which along with the teens and 20 somethings must remind them of the grandkids that they miss.

I know that the reasons for the Maxwell's participation at the home are completely selfish, but at least they are engaging the nursing home residents in some way. It would be far better if it wasn't to convert them to Jeebus and if they would engage them in more productive ways.

[sparkles]

I have volunteered at nursing homes for holiday things and they are miserable places, even at Christmas. So many people can't even drive ten minutes and bring the grandkids over on Christmas or Thanksgiving to say hi to Grandma, and "the elderly" sit there hoping that they won't be forgotten. THe nurses and aides are overwhelmed and put the residents in their wheelchairs for "hall time" where they just sit there in those chairs staring into nothing.

The thing is that these folks still have working minds, they have just been forgotten.

I don't know how the nursing home the Maxwells frequent operates but I suspect that the nurses/aides are just happy for someone to distract the residents for an hour a week. And the residents might really enjoy the change of pace. Plus the Maxwells now have a bunch of babies that they bring along, which along with the teens and 20 somethings must remind them of the grandkids that they miss.

I know that the reasons for the Maxwell's participation at the home are completely selfish, but at least they are engaging the nursing home residents in some way. It would be far better if it wasn't to convert them to Jeebus and if they would engage them in more productive ways.

Agreed. I really can't fault the Maxwells for a lot of what they do--the nursing home visits, the caroling and so on--but it would be so much more meaningful and honest if there was no ulterior motive behind it. For the Maxwells, life is all about death and what the "good deeds" you do here on earth will get you in the afterlife. So there's really nothing altruistic about what they do; their motives are purely selfish. And maybe it's because of the awkward, stilted, old-fashioned way they write, but they always sound so freaking condescending in their blog posts.

[MamaJunebug]

And yet, remember when we got the report about the Maxhell session a couple years ago, the FJ-infiltrator told us about a couple of customers who said almost tearfully that the Maxes were so great because "they don't judge you!" - while apparently, others in the homeschooling / child-cocooning world do just that.

I think the Maxwell parents are very self-aware and quite sophisticated in their aims and their methods for making their word the way they want it, their children's needs or wants be damned. They know what's best for the children and grandchildren and they have built a way to insist upon it and to insure that it will be carried out, to their letter.

Not naive in the least. And "simple" only in the simplicity of their devotion to doing it their way, on their time, with their rules, on their turf.