God is pro-life

[Minerva]

That sounds good. If you are against certain choices because you personally disagree with them or because you personally think they're wrong, then you're anti choice. Pro choice means you're pro all choices, not only those choices you approve of. I'm pro I should mind my own damn business when things don't affect me, and other peoples' abortions whether they have one or 20 don't affect me at all. I think that's a sensible attitude for all things. I am also especially passionate about the fact that everyone should have the right to bodily autonomy. Which means, no matter what I may want to do with my own body, everyone needs to be able to make choices about what happens to their body themselves.

Yes. And you can personally disagree with certain options and still be pro-choice. You just refrain from doing them yourself, don't shame other people for choosing differently*, and support people when they choose differently from you.

*Shaming people includes making a big deal of how you wouldn't/didn't choose a certain option. There's a difference between someone telling you they wouldn't have an abortion because you're exchanging thoughts on what each of you would do if you got pregnant, and and them qualifying their support of your choice with the fact that they would never do the same. You can tell when someone's being a dick and when they're just stating a fact.

[emmiedahl]

I think it is silly to say you would never have an abortion. As someone who used to think this. I think we all have hypothetical situations in which we would consider abortion; maybe we just have been lucky enough not to be in them yet.

[Austin]

I think it is silly to say you would never have an abortion. As someone who used to think this. I think we all have hypothetical situations in which we would consider abortion; maybe we just have been lucky enough not to be in them yet.

I agree. I have always considered myself personally "pro-life", although I hesitate to even use that term, but for lack of another at this moment, I will. But I have had the luxury of being in a loving marriage for 30 years, where an unexpected pregnancy wouldn't have broken the bank or caused undue stress.

But now, as I will be 50 relatively soon, I am as sure as I can be about a hypothetical situation that if I was to become pregnant by some accident, I would more than likely terminate. That's very, very unlikely scenario, because I am am not particularly fertile to begin with, and we are extremely careful despite that history. Our children are grown, my husband is more than a decade older than me, and a baby, other than a grandchild, is not in our future.

[thoughtful]

And, at this point in the thread, it seems appropriate to post this, in case there's anyone here who hasn't already seen it.

http://mypage.direct.ca/w/writer/anti-tales.html

Whatever my personal choices in life, about any issue, I have long-since learned not to be smug about them.

One never knows.

[B5SnowDog]

Hey moron I'm not antichoice, in fact if more ended up like you I would want to abort more.

My cat's breath smells like catfood.

[catdogandbirdmommy]

I gotta say the catdogsquid mommy has it all figured out. It must be a full time job telling a world of wimmins what decisions they should be makin' . I wonder if it pays well?

I have NEVER said I tell women what to do with their bodies but sorry a prostitute isn't exactly top of the scale when it comes to decency. The prostitute I mentioned has had 5 abortions because she didn't use birth control. Am I making judgement on her? you better believe because she should have used birth control but used abortion as a form. Abortion is NOT intended for that it is intended for things like rape or birth control failing.

I find it rather ironic that many of you think nothing of lumping all religious people in the same category as the fundies (and in fact some of you don't even know what fundies are)while defending prostitutes. Prostitution is illegal, being a fundie or a churchgoer is not.

[rock_girl]

I have NEVER said I tell women what to do with their bodies but sorry a prostitute isn't exactly top of the scale when it comes to decency. The prostitute I mentioned has had 5 abortions because she didn't use birth control. Am I making judgement on her? you better believe because she should have used birth control but used abortion as a form. Abortion is NOT intended for that it is intended for things like rape or birth control failing.

I find it rather ironic that many of you think nothing of lumping all religious people in the same category as the fundies (and in fact some of you don't even know what fundies are)while defending prostitutes. Prostitution is illegal, being a fundie or a churchgoer is not.

Seriously, explain why abortion as birth control is a bad thing. Personally I think abortion as birth control is terrible because it's expensive and like any procedure it carries a risk to the patient. But hey, I've had several rounds of plastic surgery because I'm vain as hell. Not only is it expensive, but what I had done came with a much larger risk to me than a simple abortion.

Oh, and prostitution is not necessarily illegal. Depends where you live.

[rock_girl]

And while I'm here, decency? I don't consider shock jocks, right wing politicians, hedge fund managers and mega church clergy to be decent people.

If you rank people on "decency" and how their actions affect the wider community, you'll find that a prostitute is way, way, way down the scale when compared to, say, the shock jocks of the world.

[catdogandbirdmommy]

What's wrong with a shock jock? I don't listen to them but I wouldn't say they are decent or not. I don't consider most politicians of either party decent but there are some good ones on both sides.

[rock_girl]

What's wrong with a shock jock? I don't listen to them but I wouldn't say they are decent or not. I don't consider most politicians of either party decent but there are some good ones on both sides.

Tell me why a prostitute having five abortions is worse than me having several rounds of surgery to get the cutest nose and the perkiest... yeah. I'd love to know.

Also, let me answer your question. http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv- ... 26ugl.html This is one of Australia's leading lights in the shock jock arena. He's an influential member of the right and has politicians falling over themselves to win his favour. Much like Limbaugh and your Republican party. Recently he's called for our (female) PM to be dropped at sea in a chaff bag, refers to her as a bitch at every opportunity, and after her father died a few weeks ago declared that the man had died of shame. Like you he's a twisted little puppy.

[Megan]

I have NEVER said I tell women what to do with their bodies but sorry a prostitute isn't exactly top of the scale when it comes to decency. The prostitute I mentioned has had 5 abortions because she didn't use birth control. Am I making judgement on her? you better believe because she should have used birth control but used abortion as a form. Abortion is NOT intended for that it is intended for things like rape or birth control failing.

I find it rather ironic that many of you think nothing of lumping all religious people in the same category as the fundies (and in fact some of you don't even know what fundies are)while defending prostitutes. Prostitution is illegal, being a fundie or a churchgoer is not.

"I don't always tell women what to do with their bodies, but when I do, it's because I'm better/more decent than them."

We aren't lumping all religious people in with fundies. We are lumping people who want their religious morals imposed together. Some people here consider that fundie, some people probably disagree. It still deserves snark.

Prostitution is legal in various places. Not everyone here is from the US (and some people from the US might be from Nevada. Prostitution is legal there). Anyway, how do you know this prostitute had 5 abortions? How do you know she wasn't using birth control? I sincerely doubt a prostitute in an area where prostitution is illegal would be discussing this with someone who is not her friend (as you insisted upthread) and who is exceedingly judgmental about abortion. Where does it say that abortion is only intended for rape or birth control failing? If you're going by the Catholic definition, neither birth control nor abortion are acceptable.* I'd rather interact with a non-judgmental prostitute than judgmental churchgoers.

*as far as I am aware, the Catholic church allows birth control pills to be used for medical reasons unrelated to contraception. It should not be used purely as contraception. Or something. I generally seethed in my distaste during those discussions.

[Arete]

I find it rather ironic that many of you think nothing of lumping all religious people in the same category as the fundies (and in fact some of you don't even know what fundies are)while defending prostitutes. Prostitution is illegal, being a fundie or a churchgoer is not.

Personally, I have never once experienced a sex worker trying to shove her/his lifestyle done my throat, try to legislate away my freedom to live my life as I saw fit, or sit in judgement of me and mine. I have definitely experienced that from fundie church goers.

Sex workers provide a public service. How else would people be able to feel superior if they didn't have the nasty sex workers to look down on?

[catdogandbirdmommy]

I'm not Republican but if I don't like a talk show I don't listen. I don't listen to people like Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck (think they are both nuts)nor do I listen to others.

[rock_girl]

I'm not Republican but if I don't like a talk show I don't listen. I don't listen to people like Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck (think they are both nuts)nor do I listen to others.

Once again, I have had several rounds of plastic surgery. It's expensive and risky. Why then is a woman who has five simple procedures that are far less expensive and far less risky worse than all the vain rock_girls of the world? Why aren't you preaching against the evils of plastic surgery?

[catdogandbirdmommy]

She was a friend at one time which is why she told me. A current friend also had an abortion and no I didn't judge her.

[emmiedahl]

There are a whole lotta religious people here on FJ so I doubt everyone lumps ourselves in with fundies.

There are some posters here who think all religion is irrational and stupid, but still, they have never called me a fundie.

[rock_girl]

She was a friend at one time which is why she told me. A current friend also had an abortion and no I didn't judge her.

Nuh uh. You took issue with a prostitute receiving five abortions. I don't care who she told or whether she's a figment of your imagination.

So, a prostitute received five abortions, rock_girl has had two rounds of plastic surgery. Why is one bad and not the other?

Do I fall down the scale of decency once my tally of surgeries reaches five? Is that the case for all elective surgery? Do you just have a beef with surgeons and/or anaesthetists? Is that the problem? Tell me, I'm fascinated by your logic and would absolutely love to know how it works!

[wtfrenchtoast]

Question. Why is being a prostitute or sex worker a bad thing? I've yet to hear a valid reason for it actually being illegal.

[Sola]

She was a friend at one time which is why she told me. A current friend also had an abortion and no I didn't judge her.

You said earlier in this thread that this woman wasn't a friend, just somebody you knew. Make your mind up.

[DarkAnts]

Question. Why is being a prostitute or sex worker a bad thing? I've yet to hear a valid reason for it actually being illegal.

The average starting age of a prostitute in the US is 13. Many of those girls are being sold by a pimp. They are emotionally abused into believing that the pimp loves them. If they dont believe it then they are beaten and often killed. I have a problem with the abusive aspects associated with being a prostitute in these situation.

[formergothardite]

I have NEVER said I tell women what to do with their bodies but sorry a prostitute isn't exactly top of the scale when it comes to decency. The prostitute I mentioned has had 5 abortions because she didn't use birth control. Am I making judgement on her? you better believe because she should have used birth control but used abortion as a form. Abortion is NOT intended for that it is intended for things like rape or birth control failing.

I find it rather ironic that many of you think nothing of lumping all religious people in the same category as the fundies (and in fact some of you don't even know what fundies are)while defending prostitutes. Prostitution is illegal, being a fundie or a churchgoer is not.

Have you spoken to her with kindness and understanding to find out why she ended up as a prostitute? How do you know she didn't use birth control? For a prostitute, only getting pregnant five times sounds like she was using some form of birth control.

Abortion is intended for people who get pregnant and don't want to have a child. That is what it is for.

As I stated earlier in this thread, a fundie is someone who either takes their beliefs to the extreme or tries to force their beliefs on others. So, your anti-choice friends are fundies because they are trying to force their beliefs on other people. Doesn't matter that they are athiest.

You are just judgmental and have no compassion.

[bananacat]

Even criminals have a right to own their uteruses. Enough said.

[valsa]

Abortion is NOT intended for that it is intended for things like rape or birth control failing.

Untrue. Abortion is a method to keep from bringing a fetus to term. That's it.

And you may have issues with PP (stupid issues, but whatever) but it was originally developed so that poor women, many of whom were married with other children, could avoid having a child that might kill them or spread their finances so thin that one of their already-born child might, literally, starve to death or avoid having a back-alley abortion.

Abortion has never been just for rape and birth control failure.

[Minerva]

I have NEVER said I tell women what to do with their bodies but sorry a prostitute isn't exactly top of the scale when it comes to decency.

Why? Because sex work is illegal? Are you telling me you've never broken the law? Are all people who break the law indecent?

The prostitute I mentioned has had 5 abortions because she didn't use birth control. Am I making judgement on her? you better believe because she should have used birth control but used abortion as a form. Abortion is NOT intended for that it is intended for things like rape or birth control failing.

WHY? Why shouldn't it be used as a primary means of birth control? You have not yet answered this.

On what basis do you say abortion was only intended for rape and birth control failure? Do you have a prehistoric document proving that whoever invented abortion only intended it for those circumstances? Abortion predates most forms of birth control, you know.

I find it rather ironic that many of you think nothing of lumping all religious people in the same category as the fundies (and in fact some of you don't even know what fundies are)while defending prostitutes. Prostitution is illegal, being a fundie or a churchgoer is not.

Sex workers aren't trying to make their beliefs law, whereas fundies and many non-fundie religious people are. Therefore we're likely to like sex workers better. Since when does the legality of an activity reflect on its morality? Do you find civil disobedience unclassy, too?

[wtfrenchtoast]

The average starting age of a prostitute in the US is 13. Many of those girls are being sold by a pimp. They are emotionally abused into believing that the pimp loves them. If they dont believe it then they are beaten and often killed. I have a problem with the abusive aspects associated with being a prostitute in these situation.

Indeed, I have a problem with this as well. However, the wrong in that situation is not the sex work. It's the abuse and manipulation of underage girls. Which maybe, just maybe, would be somewhat alleviated if prostitution were made legal and regulated.

But clearly menageriemommy doesn't oppose sex work because it exploits young women. She's against it because she simply finds it icky. She thinks sex workers are sluts who don't deserve common decent. She thinks they're beneath her. I don't see anything inherently wrong with sex work itself, and I would like her to tell me why it's so bad.